Grape or KJ both have my support. Perhaps Grape as the primary rep and KJ as backup/sub - the backups often get into the game as a sub for a community that doesn't have a backup, for what it's worth - I think that happened with Tom a few seasons ago.
Sorry if I came across like a total arrogant ass in scum chat, btw. This is a general thing, not directed at anyone specific.
I was really struggling to find motivation, and was mostly trying to hype myself up to bring myself to post and care, heh. A kind of "Okay. I'm good at this game. I can do this. Really. We got this." Type of thing.
I came pretty close to just conceding and refusing to post.
I did not want to be forced into a position where I either had to town read Terry for stuff that was OOG and almost certainly lose the game, be forced into making gross posts to continue to scum read him to further my win condition.
I set up the Terry lynch so that he had zero behavioral outs. He was never not getting lynched today unless he did something against the spirit of the game to clear himself.
I don't want to put Proph on the spot here, because he's a good friend and generally a good mod - but he put the scum team in an impossible position by not just modkilling and ending the game. I value game health, community health, and game integrity, but I felt like I had to violate some of that to continue playing to win this game.
And that is why you just can't say some of the things that were said.
lol @ "Well I was too good and people took that into account, so I made a new account to run over people with all over again'.
Whatever. I was wrong all over the place this game, no one to blame but myself.
No, not at all sorry.
I generally just play on Voxxicus when I play, but there's been a couple games where I join games on gimmicks when it's purely a favor to the mod, and I have no expectations of actually playing the game with investment or effort.
Proph is a good friend, and when half the game replaced out on D1, I reluctantly agreed to take a spot despite having zero time to play mafia for another 2 weeks or so.
I just...eventually decided that Proph deserved a game that would be remembered for something other than replacements and apathy, and threw myself into the game full bore to at least make it interesting and memorable.
Wow, I'd love to give you crap for being so full of yourself, but man you earned it here.
Don't mean to come across that way. Just I literally couldn't post at all D1, and had trouble getting invested into the game D2. I just made the conscious effort to try and engage with people and make people care about the game more, because in the end we're playing a game together that I want to be /fun/ not something that is a chore and we just want to be over.
There's no joy in stomping over a scum team that is apathetic and replacement filled, and there's no joy in winning as scum in a game that town doesn't care about. It's why I did some of the things I did on D3. Win or lose, it'd make the game more interesting than it was on D1/D2. I'll talk more about some of it once things are fully revealed.
lol @ "Well I was too good and people took that into account, so I made a new account to run over people with all over again'.
Whatever. I was wrong all over the place this game, no one to blame but myself.
No, not at all sorry.
I generally just play on Voxxicus when I play, but there's been a couple games where I join games on gimmicks when it's purely a favor to the mod, and I have no expectations of actually playing the game with investment or effort.
Proph is a good friend, and when half the game replaced out on D1, I reluctantly agreed to take a spot despite having zero time to play mafia for another 2 weeks or so.
I just...eventually decided that Proph deserved a game that would be remembered for something other than replacements and apathy, and threw myself into the game full bore to at least make it interesting and memorable.
Please don't just mindlessly chain lynch Newcomb > Shadow. I think there's a real chance Shadow could be town, and encourage people to fully explore that.
Never lynch Cyan or Cantrip. I'll take full blame for the loss if I'm wrong on either of those.
If you need a refresher course on how this is so completely Cyan's town meta, go read Stargate. If you want a comparison for his scum play, go look at the Invitational. He's a better scum player than that game indicates, but the difference between a focus on one player to get them lynched and the blind tunnel is pretty stark.
If you get paranoid about Cantrip, go back and re-read the interactions he had with Mindreaver, both on Day One, and on Day Three. The thing that got Mind caught was screwing up his reads on Cantrip. Cantrip's progression from leaning Rhand to switching over to Mind reads so genuine - and the half-completed ISO on Mindreaver where he kind of ended up shrugging and going with consensus doesn't feel like a scum line he'd take - he'd want actual /credit/ for the lynch if he was going to commit to it rather than 'Yeah, okay, whatever people want', effectively.
Terry is just scum here, and will be the lynch.
That means there's 2 scum in Newcomb, Shadow, Grape, Rhand.
It's actually not impossible for Newcomb to be town here. It'd be a Terry/Rhand/Grape scum team, which isn't...impossible? Just unlikely. Make sure to give it consideration, and let Newcomb say his piece tomorrow. He's a good player that I think will be able to really show that he's town if he's town, but need to not just confirmation bias him into the ground. If you read his posts objectively and still come away with him just being scum, bury him. I'd probably say he's 90-95% scum though.
I really think Grape is town, both via role, behavior, and interactions with probable scum. I don't think he's scum with Newcomb, and I don't think he's scum with Rhand /and/ Shadow. Only world he's scum in is that Terry/Rhand/Grape team, and tbh I think we just lose to that unless Newcomb can convince people he's town.
I was pretty sure Mind and Rhand were unaligned on D1. Make sure you revisit those interactions, but Rhand's behavior D3 and D4 have been paranoia inducing. His reads and points echo the ones myself and Cyan are making almost eerily so, and I'm slightly concerned he's just letting us win the game for him.
Tl;DR - I think it's probably Terry/Newcomb/Shadow, but do your due diligence. I'm talking to you, Cyan <3
He's at L-2, so he'll have time to say his piece, but I've done the re-reading I wanted to, and I'm ready to move on.
I think the literal only world where he isn't scum is a Rhand + Grape + [Newcomb/Cyan/Cantrip] world. I don't think Newcomb/Grape are scum together, and I don't think Cyan or Cantrip are scum, period.
Also think Grape probably has to be town for Terry to be town as the backup really doesn't work otherwise. I mean... it doesn't work even so, but. Yeah.
It's either just Terry/Newcomb/Shadow, or it's a weird world like Rhand/Grape/X.
And I think Grape is just town.
But I also kind of think Shadow is town.
Talk to me about where you are seeing town shadow. I've been waffling a bit on him, but I want to hear what you are seeing.
Some of it is based on his role. The role is proven, he name/flavor copped Cyan. It's kind of a mod meta call, where I know Proph hates flavor gaming, and what better way to combat it than to make the alignments of players not related to their flavor? Shadow's role kind of makes sense as a low powered/red herring town role that can be roleblocked/check as power role by Mindreaver, while forcing town to come to the conclusion that flavor doesn't matter, and they need to lynch on behavior.
It could be a scum role but I struggle to see the value. There would have to be a hidden second component to the role we obviously don't know about.
I think his paranoia with regards to Cantrip/myself scumhammering was fantastically done if he's scum. It reads extremely genuine.
There was also a component to his...tone? On D3 that is hard to articulate. But the way it kind of felt like his soul was being crushed as Mindreaver kept being scummier and scummier. This maybe isn't alignment indicative, but I could feel his hopes of victory kind of slip away, and it really resonated with me. As I type it out it really isn't alignment indicative because it'd be true as town who tied himself to Mindreaver, and scum who tied himself to Mindreaver, heh.
I don't know. My gut/heart just tell me that he's town, but occam's razor says he's scum.
It just makes /sense/ for it to have been an all in play yesterday by him and Terry to save Mindreaver and bury Rhand for the game winning mislynch.
The world that he's town requires his role to be meaningless, and the truly unfortunate series of events to play out where he defended scum at Mylo. I also can't really come up with a scum team that works in terms of interactions and gameflow without him.
I was really struggling to find motivation, and was mostly trying to hype myself up to bring myself to post and care, heh. A kind of "Okay. I'm good at this game. I can do this. Really. We got this." Type of thing.
I did not want to be forced into a position where I either had to town read Terry for stuff that was OOG and almost certainly lose the game, be forced into making gross posts to continue to scum read him to further my win condition.
I set up the Terry lynch so that he had zero behavioral outs. He was never not getting lynched today unless he did something against the spirit of the game to clear himself.
I don't want to put Proph on the spot here, because he's a good friend and generally a good mod - but he put the scum team in an impossible position by not just modkilling and ending the game. I value game health, community health, and game integrity, but I felt like I had to violate some of that to continue playing to win this game.
And that is why you just can't say some of the things that were said.
Don't mean to come across that way. Just I literally couldn't post at all D1, and had trouble getting invested into the game D2. I just made the conscious effort to try and engage with people and make people care about the game more, because in the end we're playing a game together that I want to be /fun/ not something that is a chore and we just want to be over.
There's no joy in stomping over a scum team that is apathetic and replacement filled, and there's no joy in winning as scum in a game that town doesn't care about. It's why I did some of the things I did on D3. Win or lose, it'd make the game more interesting than it was on D1/D2. I'll talk more about some of it once things are fully revealed.
No, not at all sorry.
I generally just play on Voxxicus when I play, but there's been a couple games where I join games on gimmicks when it's purely a favor to the mod, and I have no expectations of actually playing the game with investment or effort.
Proph is a good friend, and when half the game replaced out on D1, I reluctantly agreed to take a spot despite having zero time to play mafia for another 2 weeks or so.
I just...eventually decided that Proph deserved a game that would be remembered for something other than replacements and apathy, and threw myself into the game full bore to at least make it interesting and memorable.
Sorry about Ultimate Showdown version 2, Cyan.
For what it's worth, I enjoyed playing with you very much this game, and I definitely felt all kinds of empathy and pain for pocketing you so hard.
Idk. Still think you and Terry are scum for defending Mindreaver so heavily.
I wanted him dead so badly, D3 was beyond exhausting.
There's a lesson to be learned that defending people based on flavor or role assumptions is very dangerous.
When someone is as scummy as Mindreaver was, it generally means they are just scum.
/out.
/shake it all about.
In case the hammer happens and I get dunked:
Please don't just mindlessly chain lynch Newcomb > Shadow. I think there's a real chance Shadow could be town, and encourage people to fully explore that.
Never lynch Cyan or Cantrip. I'll take full blame for the loss if I'm wrong on either of those.
If you need a refresher course on how this is so completely Cyan's town meta, go read Stargate. If you want a comparison for his scum play, go look at the Invitational. He's a better scum player than that game indicates, but the difference between a focus on one player to get them lynched and the blind tunnel is pretty stark.
If you get paranoid about Cantrip, go back and re-read the interactions he had with Mindreaver, both on Day One, and on Day Three. The thing that got Mind caught was screwing up his reads on Cantrip. Cantrip's progression from leaning Rhand to switching over to Mind reads so genuine - and the half-completed ISO on Mindreaver where he kind of ended up shrugging and going with consensus doesn't feel like a scum line he'd take - he'd want actual /credit/ for the lynch if he was going to commit to it rather than 'Yeah, okay, whatever people want', effectively.
Terry is just scum here, and will be the lynch.
That means there's 2 scum in Newcomb, Shadow, Grape, Rhand.
It's actually not impossible for Newcomb to be town here. It'd be a Terry/Rhand/Grape scum team, which isn't...impossible? Just unlikely. Make sure to give it consideration, and let Newcomb say his piece tomorrow. He's a good player that I think will be able to really show that he's town if he's town, but need to not just confirmation bias him into the ground. If you read his posts objectively and still come away with him just being scum, bury him. I'd probably say he's 90-95% scum though.
I really think Grape is town, both via role, behavior, and interactions with probable scum. I don't think he's scum with Newcomb, and I don't think he's scum with Rhand /and/ Shadow. Only world he's scum in is that Terry/Rhand/Grape team, and tbh I think we just lose to that unless Newcomb can convince people he's town.
I was pretty sure Mind and Rhand were unaligned on D1. Make sure you revisit those interactions, but Rhand's behavior D3 and D4 have been paranoia inducing. His reads and points echo the ones myself and Cyan are making almost eerily so, and I'm slightly concerned he's just letting us win the game for him.
Tl;DR - I think it's probably Terry/Newcomb/Shadow, but do your due diligence. I'm talking to you, Cyan <3
¯\_(-_-)_/¯
Blame Cantrip's naked vote for the subsequent paranoia.
Vote: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
He's at L-2, so he'll have time to say his piece, but I've done the re-reading I wanted to, and I'm ready to move on.
I think the literal only world where he isn't scum is a Rhand + Grape + [Newcomb/Cyan/Cantrip] world. I don't think Newcomb/Grape are scum together, and I don't think Cyan or Cantrip are scum, period.
Also think Grape probably has to be town for Terry to be town as the backup really doesn't work otherwise. I mean... it doesn't work even so, but. Yeah.
Some of it is based on his role. The role is proven, he name/flavor copped Cyan. It's kind of a mod meta call, where I know Proph hates flavor gaming, and what better way to combat it than to make the alignments of players not related to their flavor? Shadow's role kind of makes sense as a low powered/red herring town role that can be roleblocked/check as power role by Mindreaver, while forcing town to come to the conclusion that flavor doesn't matter, and they need to lynch on behavior.
It could be a scum role but I struggle to see the value. There would have to be a hidden second component to the role we obviously don't know about.
I think his paranoia with regards to Cantrip/myself scumhammering was fantastically done if he's scum. It reads extremely genuine.
There was also a component to his...tone? On D3 that is hard to articulate. But the way it kind of felt like his soul was being crushed as Mindreaver kept being scummier and scummier. This maybe isn't alignment indicative, but I could feel his hopes of victory kind of slip away, and it really resonated with me. As I type it out it really isn't alignment indicative because it'd be true as town who tied himself to Mindreaver, and scum who tied himself to Mindreaver, heh.
I don't know. My gut/heart just tell me that he's town, but occam's razor says he's scum.
It just makes /sense/ for it to have been an all in play yesterday by him and Terry to save Mindreaver and bury Rhand for the game winning mislynch.
The world that he's town requires his role to be meaningless, and the truly unfortunate series of events to play out where he defended scum at Mylo. I also can't really come up with a scum team that works in terms of interactions and gameflow without him.
So I'm conflicted.