Damping Sphere
2
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
Been playing the deck from time to time lately since the B&R like I said. The meta is very, very diverse and unstable to really know where the deck is standing, but we really have some good matchups and some other bad matchups like everyone else. I been facing Jund with a lot of success, considering how Jund sorta gives you time to get to your thing, and that every single card in our core is good against them. Just came across to the conclusion that Emrakul saw her power diminished thanks to all the new Eldrazis that are running around. I casted him twice last week and wasn't able to finish off because an Eldrazi Obligator and a Displacer that did their thing in their games (losing to your own Emrakul is painful). By the way that G/R Eldrazi deck really gives us a hard time. Eldrazi Obligator can deal with every threat we have in the deck and kill us with it. Have anyone tried Newmrakul for this deck? Curious to hear how that went.
I'm curious about the Secure the Wastes, how has it been working for you? I've been fiddling with the thopter/sword combo recently, how does Secure feel compared to other token generating strategies?
Thanks! I can't really give you a comparison to Thopter Foundry because I haven't tested it myself in this deck. It is an interesting choice but in a deck that is doing a lot of things, 2-pieces combos sometimes can be a little clunky, more if you don't find a Gifts. I think Thopter Foundry is better on an immediate tutor shell, with cards like Whir of Invention. Secure the Wastes works as a versatile card, something that our deck prizes. Useful with or without Tron, early or late game. With tron online is sweet but I have used it also as a follow up to Elesh Norn with 3-4 3/3 tokens. Instant speed chump-blockers, and also a great target for Snapcaster Mage. Obviously it does little to nothing on certain matches, but most of our strong cards have bad matches also. What I love the most of this card it's that it isn't color demanding and it's an instant. I was sold on the idea that it could help me defend Jace but it has surprised me with the things you can do with it. U/W Control decks have been running one lately, so you can find more evidence there.
I would probably advocate for a Crucible to offset Field of Ruins that everyone else is playing. Also a Snow-Covered Island because of Gifts.
I moved away from Crucible on E-Tron after facing a heavy K-command meta. With the return of Abrupt Decay it doesn't get better honestly. But it's a reasonable out, should be worth to test.
Hello everybody, it's been a while since I posted here. After the B&R announcement made last week, I think the position of our deck improves in the meta. I was thinking that I'll be expecting to see more Jace builds and Jund/random zoo decks with BBE. Jund is by far one of our best matchups, and the non-UW control builds that JTMS could fit in, are favorable (like Grixis Control). Anyways I gave the deck a test yesterday in my LGS and I really forgot how powerful it was, and with JTMS as a one-off it does improve. Got a really positive result using this list:
The decks I faced were Jund, Griselshoal Reanimator, Burn, Affinity and GW Valuetown. Got a record of 5-0 (felt like a MTGO league haha). JTMS won me like 3 games by himself with Brainstorm and Fate seal. I was very satisfied with his performance and his immediate impact on the board as he comes in, presenting a wincon by himself that our opponent needs to deal with, adding up to the others we already have. Great synegry as a one-off with gifts, card advantage, all the things you already know he provides. We are definitively not the best shell for him, but he can easily fit in. I strongly recommend you to test it, but most of all, to dust off this deck and go out to play it. We know we aren't close to being Tier One, but the element of surprise this deck provides is strong, and with the new meta I think we will be able to play it more often with positive results. Looking forward to see more data incoming on this thread
4 GQ plan might seem awkward but its the best choice for the land flex slot as the deck doesn't need Sanctum of Ugin without something to trigger it. Maybe another Cavern but that's more a meta call. What I would like to always have is a payoff to assemble tron. I would like to try Conduit of Ruin with Newlamog or Newmrakul. 2 Endbringers, one Conduit and one Titan. Conduit can ramp ballistas or other creatures we have, and present a finisher in a titan as we tutor it up for the next turn. Anyone tried this before?
To note, I think almost all decks that uses CoCo (if not every deck) rely on mana dorks to have it available on the earliest turns possible. This is something we can't do and as a tribe that doesn't have mana dorks (like Elves). I don't think we could rely on it without kicking in some Hierarchs or something, that I don't fancy tbh.
EDIT: however, all this is quite theoretical. That's the reason why I would like to see the deck working. Mistbinder falls in the category of cards that do not address at all any of the problems merfolk face, but it can be moving the deck towards a better direction just by virtue of making it better at racing. It has become clear that the U/G deck is a bit more of a glass cannon: if it doesn't take the lead from the very beggining of the game, it will fall behind. That is by no means a problem in magic. There are plenty of decks that work in the same way.
You got a point and this addresses the issue of innovation in this deck because we all know what our deck is good at doing, and what not; and the thing is that we are falling behind as other tribes are getting some interaction we would wish for. What it will never change of this deck (and my personal favorite) is its stability. A consistent mana base, some good redundancy, strong sideboard plan, etc. makes this deck to be up there fighting all the changes the modern meta faces through the years. I like how magic mixes chess strategy with poker playing. With this deck, if you get the chess side (piloting the deck) correctly and some good poker day, you'll be having around the same results consistently, so you know what to expect.
I'd just like to announce that I've done some major updating to the primer to reflect the recent changes to the card pool in the last few months, in addition to updating the matchup guide. Take a look and let me know what you think!
Thanks, got some nice and detailed info like always. For my theory crafting contribution for UG fish in modern I'll be also be splashing for a while. I saw that you wrote that Kumena and Jungle Pioneer could be cards worth considering. Thoughts of trying a 20 land variant to have a 3 CMC end curve in tropical? I may start with that route to see what I get, I'll let you know.
@Ashiok: Yes, this is a competitive forum. I'll answer your statements with other ones, just to support what FANAttIC said. It is not stubbornness, it's a conception of the game. Mutavault and manlands gives decks different angles from with whom you can develop your game thanks to your manlands. Yes, manlands became weaker in general with the printing of fatal push, but even though they are still strong to 1-to-1 removal. You have a 30-creature-deck facing a 30-removal-deck. You would still win the one-to-one card game thanks to your manlands. Sometimes it's a little awkward spending removal to kill a land, because you need to hit other targets. The ability they have to switch from one type of card to another is too strong. Think how this protect them from wraths and cards like abrupt decay. How they dodge cryptic command tap, how they present a clock your opponent needs to deal with, and I could go on. Manlands in decks like UW control are powerful. Manlands in decks like Affinity wins you a lot, lot of games. We are not the only deck that tries to include them if they have the chance. Now think of a land that syngergizes with a bunch of cards that our deck has. If this is not pure value, I don't know what it is.
Yes, you wanna go and try some new toys FC gave the tribe, go ahead. Brewers innovate the game and I think we all will be testing some of them. But think how it is not stubbornness to say that losing one of our keycards just to try some other not-as-consistent base is, to the eye, a weaker build. Results will have the last word, I hope you are right and come back to say "I told you everyone, I was right" if that gives you satisfaction. If this makes the deck improve, it will be welcomed by everyone.
It's not always possible to seed cards in previous sets. Neither Merfolk nor Dinosaurs appear on the planes of Kaladesh or Amonkhet, so it was not possible to include them there. [...] Merfolk could have made sense in those worlds, but they were a late addition to Ixalan design. By the time that tribe was added, the worldbuilding in the previous year was complete. It was too late to rebuild the world to include Merfolk.
This means Merfolk was a late design and probably a late addition, but what comes is interesting:
Sometimes it's not possible to seed (see the Merfolk and Dinosaur examples above). When we can't seed cards for certain decks, we will distribute the deck's power throughout the block or even the whole year.[...] The Vampire and Merfolk lords add significant power to the tribes, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the real world will approach these archetypes.
So Merfolks DO exist in Dominaria, so it won't be rare to have one or two additions to wait for. It doesn't relief me from disappointment but at least it gives something new to wait for.
When talking about the deck's hardest matchups, the default decks I think of are Titanshift, Gx Tron, and Ad Nauseam. I don't see how bolt or kozilek's return will help us against those decks. I haven't really had too much trouble with creature-based beatdown decks, which I'm assuming is what you meant. So, I don't think a red splash is necessary atm.
I think I would include affinity. If you are not on the play and chalice (this sometimes doesn't even help), or have a quick ballista to interact on the first turns you are most likely dead. Red can help with that matchup, but I don't think the splash is worth for Blood Sun exclusively.
Not a creature, but Crashing Tide is really interesting.
3 for a vapor snag effect, even if it cantrips, makes it bad imo. It would have been better if it was a boomerang effect at least. We got the worst tribal-conditional spell of all Ixalan haha.
Oh well, spoiler season is over. I can't say I'm surprised, this is what we all kinda knew it would bring to modern, but I can't hide I'm actually a bit disappointed. Wizards R&D made all they could to use old cards mechanics in bad creatures with high CMCs. At least it leaves the opportunity for tropical fish to try to consolidate as a more-beatdown merfolk deck. Test will tell, but it's not an encouraging start, at least for me. Personally I was expecting more mono-blue love.
Of the following three spells, which is the best form of interaction for Merfolk and why: Dismember, Spell Pierce, Vapor Sang.
Dismember, for sure. It hits more targets in the current meta, like any creature-based combo deck or just plain aggro. It’s the most decent draw of the three and you can cast it with literally any land that our deck has.
Thoughts on Jadelight Ranger? A 4-3 for 3, or 2-1 draw 2 lands, or 3-2 half scry draw a land. I don't know for modern, as we're not getting the disruption we needed. Fish in standard are getting legit though.
Gaah Seafloor Oracle was 1 CMC less to be a serious option for monoblue. Not that we haven't played 4 CMC before, but a 2/3 with the payoff it gives doesn't move me that much. Even though it could still get a chance.
2
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
THIS.
Thanks! I can't really give you a comparison to Thopter Foundry because I haven't tested it myself in this deck. It is an interesting choice but in a deck that is doing a lot of things, 2-pieces combos sometimes can be a little clunky, more if you don't find a Gifts. I think Thopter Foundry is better on an immediate tutor shell, with cards like Whir of Invention. Secure the Wastes works as a versatile card, something that our deck prizes. Useful with or without Tron, early or late game. With tron online is sweet but I have used it also as a follow up to Elesh Norn with 3-4 3/3 tokens. Instant speed chump-blockers, and also a great target for Snapcaster Mage. Obviously it does little to nothing on certain matches, but most of our strong cards have bad matches also. What I love the most of this card it's that it isn't color demanding and it's an instant. I was sold on the idea that it could help me defend Jace but it has surprised me with the things you can do with it. U/W Control decks have been running one lately, so you can find more evidence there.
I moved away from Crucible on E-Tron after facing a heavy K-command meta. With the return of Abrupt Decay it doesn't get better honestly. But it's a reasonable out, should be worth to test.
4x Urza's Tower
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
3x Hallowed Fountain
2x Celestial Colonnade
2x Seachrome Coast
1x Field of Ruin
1x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Plains
Creatures
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3x Expedition Map
3x Azorius Signet
1x Talisman of Progress
Instants/Sorceries
4x Gifts Ungiven
4x Path to Exile
3x Condescend
3x Thirst for Knowledge
2x Remand
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Secure the Wastes
1x Unburial Rites
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Wrath of God
1x Day of Judgment
1x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Ghostly Prison
2x Celestial Purge
2x Negate
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Dispel
1x Disenchant
1x Pithing Needle
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Relic of Progenitus
The decks I faced were Jund, Griselshoal Reanimator, Burn, Affinity and GW Valuetown. Got a record of 5-0 (felt like a MTGO league haha). JTMS won me like 3 games by himself with Brainstorm and Fate seal. I was very satisfied with his performance and his immediate impact on the board as he comes in, presenting a wincon by himself that our opponent needs to deal with, adding up to the others we already have. Great synegry as a one-off with gifts, card advantage, all the things you already know he provides. We are definitively not the best shell for him, but he can easily fit in. I strongly recommend you to test it, but most of all, to dust off this deck and go out to play it. We know we aren't close to being Tier One, but the element of surprise this deck provides is strong, and with the new meta I think we will be able to play it more often with positive results. Looking forward to see more data incoming on this thread
Cheers,
You got a point and this addresses the issue of innovation in this deck because we all know what our deck is good at doing, and what not; and the thing is that we are falling behind as other tribes are getting some interaction we would wish for. What it will never change of this deck (and my personal favorite) is its stability. A consistent mana base, some good redundancy, strong sideboard plan, etc. makes this deck to be up there fighting all the changes the modern meta faces through the years. I like how magic mixes chess strategy with poker playing. With this deck, if you get the chess side (piloting the deck) correctly and some good poker day, you'll be having around the same results consistently, so you know what to expect.
Thanks, got some nice and detailed info like always. For my theory crafting contribution for UG fish in modern I'll be also be splashing for a while. I saw that you wrote that Kumena and Jungle Pioneer could be cards worth considering. Thoughts of trying a 20 land variant to have a 3 CMC end curve in tropical? I may start with that route to see what I get, I'll let you know.
Yes, you wanna go and try some new toys FC gave the tribe, go ahead. Brewers innovate the game and I think we all will be testing some of them. But think how it is not stubbornness to say that losing one of our keycards just to try some other not-as-consistent base is, to the eye, a weaker build. Results will have the last word, I hope you are right and come back to say "I told you everyone, I was right" if that gives you satisfaction. If this makes the deck improve, it will be welcomed by everyone.
Cheers,
It's not always possible to seed cards in previous sets. Neither Merfolk nor Dinosaurs appear on the planes of Kaladesh or Amonkhet, so it was not possible to include them there. [...] Merfolk could have made sense in those worlds, but they were a late addition to Ixalan design. By the time that tribe was added, the worldbuilding in the previous year was complete. It was too late to rebuild the world to include Merfolk.
This means Merfolk was a late design and probably a late addition, but what comes is interesting:
Sometimes it's not possible to seed (see the Merfolk and Dinosaur examples above). When we can't seed cards for certain decks, we will distribute the deck's power throughout the block or even the whole year.[...] The Vampire and Merfolk lords add significant power to the tribes, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the real world will approach these archetypes.
So Merfolks DO exist in Dominaria, so it won't be rare to have one or two additions to wait for. It doesn't relief me from disappointment but at least it gives something new to wait for.
I think I would include affinity. If you are not on the play and chalice (this sometimes doesn't even help), or have a quick ballista to interact on the first turns you are most likely dead. Red can help with that matchup, but I don't think the splash is worth for Blood Sun exclusively.
3 for a vapor snag effect, even if it cantrips, makes it bad imo. It would have been better if it was a boomerang effect at least. We got the worst tribal-conditional spell of all Ixalan haha.
Dismember, for sure. It hits more targets in the current meta, like any creature-based combo deck or just plain aggro. It’s the most decent draw of the three and you can cast it with literally any land that our deck has.