But we had a weird interaction that I didn't know what to do.. So Phenax, God of Deception was on the battlefield and his devotion was above 7 so he was a creature.. I attached Pemmin's Aura to him.. Then at some point in the game phenax devotion dropped below 7 so he became an enchantment so what happens to Pemmin's Aura when that happens?
Auras can only enchant whatever permanent type they say (creature in this case), so as soon as Phenax ceases to be a creature (he's always an enchantment), the aura will detach and go to the graveyard as state-based actions.
Thanks for the rapid quick reply... Dang you are fast.
Well we played everything right then.. But I was alittle unsure.. Because actually phenax lost creature ability and gained it back in the same turn so was unsure if pemmin left as soon as he lost creature ability but that's how we played it.
I outlasted it all and won... Didn't mill my first card until 2hrs in LOL... And besides the one opponent I took out at like the 2 1/2 hr mark.. All graveyards were shuffled back into their libraries so I had to start from scratch on 2 opponents haha
Had a couple comments.
springleaf drum showed up and was a good help. So def will stay.
Also fleet swallower helped me take out the best player in the game so I think it's staying in at the moment.
Had a player with Shalai, Voice of Plenty in play and so that means I can't mill him because phenax targets.. Is that correct.?
Luckily someone wiped him off the table.
But we had a weird interaction that I didn't know what to do.. So Phenax, God of Deception was on the battlefield and his devotion was above 7 so he was a creature.. I attached Pemmin's Aura to him.. Then at some point in the game phenax devotion dropped below 7 so he became an enchantment so what happens to Pemmin's Aura when that happens?
Thanks so much for this deck list I can't believe I've done so well with this deck.. But it really has so many ways to interact and win. I love it and I don't even have it maxed out like your deck list is.. My mana base is far inferior to yours.
Are any of these cards interesting to maybe add? Gideon's sacrifice kinda like a spore frog sorta.. But direct all damage to COA and blow up the world.
Arboreal grazer for ramp?. Prob not as it doesn't search for a land.. Just helps you play COA earlier
kaya's ghostform doesn't help us does it? As it wouldn't allow COA to hit the graveyard right? If I'm wrong this might be a nice card to have?
Thoughts.. Any cards I didn't mention that you think would get a possible add?
I unequip sunforger to search my library for a card and cast it without paying it's mana cost.
1.
Am I correct in thinking if I choose borrowed hostility I cast it for free to do 1 of the 2 options but still have the option to pay an extra 3colorless to do both options? Or am I not allowed to pay extra costs?
2.
Also if I found and cast emerge unscathed I can't use its REBOUND effect correct as I didn't cast it from my hand technically sunforger cast it for me?
3.
Now if I find Wear // Tear can I destroy BOTH a artifact and Enchantment since these two cards are FUSED together? Or do I only get to do one or the other?
Any reason you guys would see Tamiyo's Epiphany go into our decks? It's from war of spark. It's just another forsee but always nice to scry 4 and then draw..
Any reason to repeat that in our decks?
Thoughts?
I think that cloud of faeries makes no sense, but I think I would add rewind - countering 4 spells a turn seems devastating. What about storm btw? If you get to storm count 4 is it -1 point?
Storm is acceptable in the rules as it's printed on the card and isn't like some combo.. The eta the league defines combos is using multiple cards to achieve a combo.. While yes storm needs cards played before it to work its really just 1 card being used. .. So we are good to still use storm.
I am sure we will come across different mechanics that we will need to make a ruling on.. But all we are trying to do is limit the amount of comboing off to win as we have some decks in the play group that aren't fun to play with because of this reason.
So above is my deck... I have a QUESTION for you CONTROL builds.
My EDH group just instituted a new policy which I am in favor of. We banned infinite combos in our decks and also we are doing a EDH league and we have a point system and you get a -1 point for playing the same card or having the same trigger happen 4+ times in the same turn... So for example I could Cloud of Faeries + (Ghostly Flicker) + (Izzet Chronarch + 2 bounce lands. This 4 times in the turn to bank 4 extra mana but couldn't do it anymore times or I'd lose points. So you can have infinite combos in the deck they just have to be ones that can be stopped and can't hapen more than 4 times in one turn so not sure it is worth it to havw in my deck anymore.
So with a rule like that I think I might want to remove any combo pieces IF and its a strong IF there are better cards to play. I like my build how it is and most the cards in the combo have value even without all the combo pieces together.
But I went back and looked at the primer and saw that it compares the combo and control pieces
Which is awesome.
Here are the cards the primer listed for each build
So would you think to automatically remove all the COMBO package cards and put in all the CONTROL package cards or not?? I mean I still think Cadaver Imp is a great card in the deck.
Also would cloud of fairies also be removed or would you keep it in?? And ghostly flicker and displace still help with ETB effects but may not be as useful now if you aren't trying to combo off?
So just curious what you guys would remove or keep if you weren't wanting a infinite combo in your deck.?
@wallabee.. Thanks a ton of going back to each post.. I know the replies take time so I appreciate you taking it.
Also didn't know you could tap a summoning sickness creature with springleaf drum that is a cool little tidbit
Also thanks for your insight on a couple of the other cards.. You may differ alittle bit from @lyonhaert but it's good to have different perspectives..
And I may have been to easy to rush to recursion as a NEED and its not.. Just the very last game I played I think I committed to the board too much and then really wished I could get back what I needed to finish the game. So it's prob not as big a need as I think it is and will just try and add 1 recursion card and focus on some other elements of the deck like draw or countermagic..
Look forward to play testing in the next few weeks with the suggestions of you and lyonhaert..
*The Queen bows her head slowly, impressed* Now here's a dedicated servant of the Hive
The one reason for which I'm going to feature your list on the primer is because it's kitchen table Magic. A deck fit for social gaming. And, my friend, that's great.
You seem to know your deck well enough. I'm kind of afraid to give much advice, because most of the additions I'd suggest could have the unintended effect of boosting the power of your list beyond KTM. I think Vanquisher's Banner and Beast Whisperer are the most worthwile picks out of the list you mentioned last. Synapse Sliver has proved to be a lightning rod, and the fact that its ability procs via combat damage reduces its flexibility somewhat. Toxin Sliver is rather weak in my book for the same reason.
There are some qualities your swarm definitely needs - haste, flying, lifelink and mana. Duplication in those cases won't hurt. First strike and double strike overlap so pick one of each.
Wow.. No way.. I feel super honored.. In no way did I ever think that would happen.. That is so awesome!!
And thanks for the 2 suggestions.. Yeah I want to make the deck alittle more optimized but not so optimized that it hurts the playability of my deck with the group I'm in at the moment.. I think both those suggestions are spot on. And thanks for the advice on the 2 slivers I asked about.. I'll prob leave those out.
Is there any other slivers you really love in your deck that I may of left out,?
Thanks again and I feel proud to be a part of this sliver thread.. I love slivers so this is so awesome
I know you don't have any more room in your build.. But if I did.. Is lazav dimir mastermind a card that is any good to us?? Or if we have dimir doppelganger or the likes it's too much redundency?
@wallabe thanks so much for taking the time and going over each card.
The Scarab God seems like a nice addition.. Might have to give that card a try
You def reccomended some great cards and explained why some just don't work the way we need them to.
I'll tinker with my build slightly and re test it over the next few weeks and check back in and let you know how it's going.. Also going to give a look over "war of spark" when it's completely spoiled and see if there are any cards that could be put in this deck.
Thanks for taking the time to put the primer together as well as checking back in on it.
Thanks for the rapid quick reply... Dang you are fast.
Well we played everything right then.. But I was alittle unsure.. Because actually phenax lost creature ability and gained it back in the same turn so was unsure if pemmin left as soon as he lost creature ability but that's how we played it.
Thanks for clarification
I outlasted it all and won... Didn't mill my first card until 2hrs in LOL... And besides the one opponent I took out at like the 2 1/2 hr mark.. All graveyards were shuffled back into their libraries so I had to start from scratch on 2 opponents haha
Had a couple comments.
springleaf drum showed up and was a good help. So def will stay.
While altar of dementia did not show up this game thousand-year elixir was MVP this game..
Also fleet swallower helped me take out the best player in the game so I think it's staying in at the moment.
Had a player with Shalai, Voice of Plenty in play and so that means I can't mill him because phenax targets.. Is that correct.?
Luckily someone wiped him off the table.
But we had a weird interaction that I didn't know what to do.. So Phenax, God of Deception was on the battlefield and his devotion was above 7 so he was a creature.. I attached Pemmin's Aura to him.. Then at some point in the game phenax devotion dropped below 7 so he became an enchantment so what happens to Pemmin's Aura when that happens?
Thanks so much for this deck list I can't believe I've done so well with this deck.. But it really has so many ways to interact and win. I love it and I don't even have it maxed out like your deck list is.. My mana base is far inferior to yours.
So your not using phelddagrif as commander?? Interesting
Are any of these cards interesting to maybe add?
Gideon's sacrifice kinda like a spore frog sorta.. But direct all damage to COA and blow up the world.
Arboreal grazer for ramp?. Prob not as it doesn't search for a land.. Just helps you play COA earlier
kaya's ghostform doesn't help us does it? As it wouldn't allow COA to hit the graveyard right? If I'm wrong this might be a nice card to have?
Thoughts.. Any cards I didn't mention that you think would get a possible add?
Decklist didn't work for me?
I unequip sunforger to search my library for a card and cast it without paying it's mana cost.
1.
Am I correct in thinking if I choose borrowed hostility I cast it for free to do 1 of the 2 options but still have the option to pay an extra 3colorless to do both options? Or am I not allowed to pay extra costs?
1A.
Would ajani's presence be any different?
2.
Also if I found and cast emerge unscathed I can't use its REBOUND effect correct as I didn't cast it from my hand technically sunforger cast it for me?
3.
Now if I find Wear // Tear can I destroy BOTH a artifact and Enchantment since these two cards are FUSED together? Or do I only get to do one or the other?
Thanks for the clarity on my 3 1/2 questions..
But does that apply to all cards.
So could my merchant scroll search my library and pull out a soul manipulation for me?
Or does the card have to be just blue and no other color?
Thanks for the clarification.
Any reason to repeat that in our decks?
Thoughts?
Storm is acceptable in the rules as it's printed on the card and isn't like some combo.. The eta the league defines combos is using multiple cards to achieve a combo.. While yes storm needs cards played before it to work its really just 1 card being used. .. So we are good to still use storm.
I am sure we will come across different mechanics that we will need to make a ruling on.. But all we are trying to do is limit the amount of comboing off to win as we have some decks in the play group that aren't fun to play with because of this reason.
5 Child of Alara
Sac Outlets (9)
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Sidisi's Faithful
2 Costly Plunder
2 Devour Flesh
2 Terminate
3 Angelic Purge
3 Mind Extraction
7 Wretched Gryff
Tutors (11)
1 Dizzy Spell
2 Dimir Infiltrator
2 Merchant Scroll
2 Muddle the Mixture
2 Shred Memory
2 Vedalken Aethermage
3 Drift of Phantasms
3 Perplex
4 Dimir House Guard
4 Mystical Teachings
5 Brainspoil
Combo/Other (9)
2 Cloud of Faeries
2 Rolling Thunder
3 Capsize
3 Displace
3 Ghostly Flicker
4 Archaeomancer
5 Izzet Chronarch
5 Salvager of Secrets
1 Spore Frog
2 Counterspell
3 Faerie Trickery
3 Unmake
Dig/Draw (10)
1 Brainstorm
1 Preordain
2 Night's Whisper
3 Sea Gate Oracle
3 Secrets of the Golden City
4 Deep Analysis
4 Foresee
5 Mulldrifter
7 Treasure Cruise
Recursion (7)
1 Undying Evil
2 Disturbed Burial
2 Grim Harvest
2 Evolution Charm
3 Cadaver Imp
3 Soul Manipulation
4 Breath of Life
Ramp (10)
1 Crop Rotation
1 Expedition Map
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Mycosynth Wellspring
3 Cultivate
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 primal growth
3 Kodama's Reach
4 Reap and Sow
5 Traumatic Visions
1 Command Tower
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Gateway Plaza
1 Rupture Spire
1 Transguild Promenade
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Naya Panorama
1 Ash Barrens
1 Jungle Hollow
1 Thornwood Falls
1 Dismal Backwater
1 Halimar Depths
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Mortuary Mire
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Simic Growth Chamber
7 Island
5 Swamp
4 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plains
So above is my deck... I have a QUESTION for you CONTROL builds.
My EDH group just instituted a new policy which I am in favor of. We banned infinite combos in our decks and also we are doing a EDH league and we have a point system and you get a -1 point for playing the same card or having the same trigger happen 4+ times in the same turn... So for example I could Cloud of Faeries + (Ghostly Flicker) + (Izzet Chronarch + 2 bounce lands. This 4 times in the turn to bank 4 extra mana but couldn't do it anymore times or I'd lose points. So you can have infinite combos in the deck they just have to be ones that can be stopped and can't hapen more than 4 times in one turn so not sure it is worth it to havw in my deck anymore.
So with a rule like that I think I might want to remove any combo pieces IF and its a strong IF there are better cards to play. I like my build how it is and most the cards in the combo have value even without all the combo pieces together.
But I went back and looked at the primer and saw that it compares the combo and control pieces
Which is awesome.
Here are the cards the primer listed for each build
5 Brainspoil
5 Salvager of Secrets
5 Mnemonic Wall
3 Cadaver Imp
5 Urborg Uprising
3 Farhaven Elf
3 Angelic Purge
5 Peregrine Drake
3 Displace
3 Vedalken Aethermage
1 Reclaim
3 Pulse of Murasa
3 Primal Growth
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Forsake the Worldly
3 Unmake
2 Overrule
4 Reap and Sow
The ONLY cards I run from the COMBO package are Brainspoil
Salvager of Secrets, Cadaver Imp,Angelic Purge, Displace
The cards I ALREADY run from the CONTROL package are Vedalken Aethermage, Reclaim, Primal Growth, Unmake
Reap and Sow
So would you think to automatically remove all the COMBO package cards and put in all the CONTROL package cards or not?? I mean I still think Cadaver Imp is a great card in the deck.
Also would cloud of fairies also be removed or would you keep it in?? And ghostly flicker and displace still help with ETB effects but may not be as useful now if you aren't trying to combo off?
So just curious what you guys would remove or keep if you weren't wanting a infinite combo in your deck.?
Thanks as always
Also didn't know you could tap a summoning sickness creature with springleaf drum that is a cool little tidbit
Also thanks for your insight on a couple of the other cards.. You may differ alittle bit from @lyonhaert but it's good to have different perspectives..
And I may have been to easy to rush to recursion as a NEED and its not.. Just the very last game I played I think I committed to the board too much and then really wished I could get back what I needed to finish the game. So it's prob not as big a need as I think it is and will just try and add 1 recursion card and focus on some other elements of the deck like draw or countermagic..
Look forward to play testing in the next few weeks with the suggestions of you and lyonhaert..
Thanks again
Wow.. No way.. I feel super honored.. In no way did I ever think that would happen.. That is so awesome!!
And thanks for the 2 suggestions.. Yeah I want to make the deck alittle more optimized but not so optimized that it hurts the playability of my deck with the group I'm in at the moment.. I think both those suggestions are spot on. And thanks for the advice on the 2 slivers I asked about.. I'll prob leave those out.
Is there any other slivers you really love in your deck that I may of left out,?
Thanks again and I feel proud to be a part of this sliver thread.. I love slivers so this is so awesome
Thanks
The Scarab God seems like a nice addition.. Might have to give that card a try
You def reccomended some great cards and explained why some just don't work the way we need them to.
I'll tinker with my build slightly and re test it over the next few weeks and check back in and let you know how it's going.. Also going to give a look over "war of spark" when it's completely spoiled and see if there are any cards that could be put in this deck.
Thanks for taking the time to put the primer together as well as checking back in on it.