Someone in Kansas will most likely have more spare money after meeting their needs thanks to their lower costs of living. On the other side of the coin Kansas players can compare Tarmogoyf's price to full tanks for 4 large cars while NY players can compare it to a back and forth cab from Manhattan to Yankee Stadium. Which, within their own context, makes Goyf look more expensive from the first's point of view.
This thread has devolved from discussion about what we perceive to be current problems with the game into people not seeing the forest for the trees for the sake of arguing.
I come to these forums once in awhile to see if MTGO has improved the UI and overall game experience at all, always to leave disappointed. I converted a few years ago from being a MTG player (who started playing during revised), to being a Hearthstone player. Hearthstone leaves me totally wanting to get back into MTG because its a far superior card game IMO, but UI and things like having a ranked mode, timers, pack costs, etc leave me not wanting to return. Hopefully one day WotC will wake up and make MTGO better, and learn that they have to compete vs Hearthstone or the game will slowly wither and die.
Hearthstone is pretty to look at and fun in small doses, but you can't expect Magic to work like Hearthstone. MTGO will always seem clunky because Priority has to be a thing. Hearthstone took a colorful and cartoony route that Magic can never take to MTGO because it is a game of structure and rules, while Hearthstone is rife with inconsistent rules text and bugs they refuse to patch out.
The Microprose game is infinitely faster about casting, stack resolution, instants and interrupts. And it's abandonware from 1997.
It's not the game, it's the ammount of money they're willing to put into it.
I really don't want to keep beating this drum but at this point it's clear that DC is far more friendly towards archetype diversity and brewing than Leviathan is or can be. Baral, Jace and Geist can beat Zurgo in DC, they just have an uphill battle AS INTENDED BY THE GAME'S DESIGN because aggro is to control what paper is to rock.
On the other hand, no aggro deck can compete with Baral, Vial+Kraum or Narset/Wanderer in Leviathan. No other control or combo can compete with them either from what I saw in the DTC8 stream.
This is not a moment to be be diplomatic but to be loud and clear about the ridiculous imbalance in the 30lp formats because if DC dwindles and Leviathan/WotC's lists thrive, you might as well trash every non-blue deck you own.
I'm pretty sure Liliana was $80-90 on presale and a lot of people bought her at that price because SCG was shilling super hard for her at the time.
If that was her presale price, it didn't last for long, and it seems incorrect to list presale prices as representative of its actual price in Standard.
But keep nitpicking,
Pointing out that the prices of cards were actually half what you claimed they were is not "nitpicking."
that sure erases the doubling/tripling in price of Standard staples that came with Mythic rarity.
Except you cited Tarmogoyf as the turning point, which predated the mythic rarity by over a year (Bitterblossom was also not mythic rare). More importantly, if there's something wrong with Magic in the last year or two that has caused it to lose popularity, it doesn't make much sense to blame something that's been true since 2008 and was true even when the game was at its highest levels of popularity.
I'm not a fan of the price the game currently has either but I don't think it's really to blame for the declining popularity as of late, outside of perhaps how expensive Khans-Battle Standard was, but that was primarily the fault of regular rares, not the mythic rarity.
$40 and $50 are not half of $50 and $60, respectively. And abusive presale prices are in fact part of the problem with Magic's dwindling popularity. MTGFinance is a thing wether you like it or not and it casts an obervearing and unwelcoming shadow over the game.
Large swaths of old players have left and new players hear the game is expensive and unwelcoming both from enfranchised players and from media. A lot of people who have never played magic are still aware "it's the card game with the super expensive cards".
A lot of casuals avoid trading because sharking is common, and other than Commander there's no non-booster based product designed to turn a new player into an enfranchised player. The question "why would you sell me cards you know are bad?" has popped up a couple times at my LGS regarding the Planeswalker intro decks, because my LGS employees are not scumbags, and noobs aren't idiots.
Design is boring and shallow. Development is narrow, docile and makes deckbuilding feel railroaded.
Art is samey and lacks a strong style that diferentiates it from other fantasy products. The fiction is dependant on pop culture tropes that has already been run into the ground by the time they print the product they were developing at the time.
There's no middle ground for constructed between limited crap piles and PT netdeckes, they seem to expect you to grind and waste your money in ***** they know is ***** "while you learn the game". But there's absolutely no incentive to actually do the grind since planeswalker points are useless unless you're a "pro" who travels to as many GPs as possible and competes in the PT circuit.
And once you're a "pro", it turns out prizes barely cover costs and you'd be making much more money out of professionalizing your hobby if you became a Heartstone streamer like some Magic pros actually did.
On top of that, it's expensive as **** and full of scammers, market manipulation and now constant bans.
Same, I just don't want to play with or against Oloro + Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise. I really enjoy playing Queen Marchesa, Karlov and Bruse/Reyhan, and those decks don't even exist in 30lp with such an UB pushed banlist.
30lp DC was nothing but Jenara, Narset, Titania and Anafenza over here.
It's fun that you accuse my experience of being casual because I've seen decks that have top8 in relatively recent events then try to claim 30lp DC was more diverse because there were more non-competitors.
At the moment, none of the remaining decks in DC is notoriously OP, all have glaring flaws and the format is ripe for brewing.
I don't see why 30lp would be more appealing. 20lp was letting Zurgo, Geist, Queen Marchesa, Akiri+Bruse, Baral, Titania and Bruse+Reyhan into top8's despite Vial+Kraum and Breya being obviously OP. Leviathan is literally nothing but Vial+Kraum, Baral/Jace, Narset/Wanderer, Geist or Titania.
20lp has twice the archetype diversity and now that Vial and Breya are gone I've been seing a lot more fun stuff like Karlov, Mardu Partners, Saskia Slivers, Animar and Akiri+Silas at my LGS.
I'd trade Oloro for Yisan and Breya for Braids.
Also, I told you they could **** everything up and not ban Strip Mine.
But most of all, I see this causing a massive backlash from the MODO multiplayer community since they're losing a lot of great multiplayer cards because of a format they never even wanted or supported. Meanwhile we were stood up waiting for a unificator competitive format.
I'm pretty sure Liliana was $80-90 on presale and a lot of people bought her at that price because SCG was shilling super hard for her at the time.
But keep nitpicking, that sure erases the doubling/tripling in price of Standard staples that came with Mythic rarity.
There seems to be a disconnect here. Professional (e)sports has a huge barrier to entry.
But it's usually a time barrier rather than an economic barrier unless you decide to become a pro player AND a pro streamer at the same time.
At what point does cost become an actual economic barrier? And how much do you think a set up to play professional (e)sports on costs?
Roughly the same as it costs to buy Mardu Vehicles and Death Shadow Jund from zero. Except Magic cards aren't tax deductible or a porwerful business tool and unrelated entertainment platform. The real costs of esports are in travel, housing, healthcare and wages. And primarily concern the team/company owners because the people going for the $M payloads are actually threated like employed athletes unlike Magic "pros" who sometimes don't even make back the cost of attending a PT.
At the semi-pro level, you can make GP money while spending roughly the same money except you spent it in hardware, while the MtG player spent it in cardboard, and that's not even taking streaming into account.
Personally, if I wanted to professionalize my hobbies with the best EvP, I'd avoid both Riot and WotC, and instead look towards EVO.
If your Magic-related social media wasn't filled with 34-rhino/oops all rhinos/rhinoception memes you haven't lived. Cardboardcrack alone made at least 6 rhino-related strips.
Someone in Kansas will most likely have more spare money after meeting their needs thanks to their lower costs of living. On the other side of the coin Kansas players can compare Tarmogoyf's price to full tanks for 4 large cars while NY players can compare it to a back and forth cab from Manhattan to Yankee Stadium. Which, within their own context, makes Goyf look more expensive from the first's point of view.
This thread has devolved from discussion about what we perceive to be current problems with the game into people not seeing the forest for the trees for the sake of arguing.
The Microprose game is infinitely faster about casting, stack resolution, instants and interrupts. And it's abandonware from 1997.
It's not the game, it's the ammount of money they're willing to put into it.
On the other hand, no aggro deck can compete with Baral, Vial+Kraum or Narset/Wanderer in Leviathan. No other control or combo can compete with them either from what I saw in the DTC8 stream.
This is not a moment to be be diplomatic but to be loud and clear about the ridiculous imbalance in the 30lp formats because if DC dwindles and Leviathan/WotC's lists thrive, you might as well trash every non-blue deck you own.
$40 and $50 are not half of $50 and $60, respectively. And abusive presale prices are in fact part of the problem with Magic's dwindling popularity. MTGFinance is a thing wether you like it or not and it casts an obervearing and unwelcoming shadow over the game.
Large swaths of old players have left and new players hear the game is expensive and unwelcoming both from enfranchised players and from media. A lot of people who have never played magic are still aware "it's the card game with the super expensive cards".
A lot of casuals avoid trading because sharking is common, and other than Commander there's no non-booster based product designed to turn a new player into an enfranchised player. The question "why would you sell me cards you know are bad?" has popped up a couple times at my LGS regarding the Planeswalker intro decks, because my LGS employees are not scumbags, and noobs aren't idiots.
Design is boring and shallow. Development is narrow, docile and makes deckbuilding feel railroaded.
Art is samey and lacks a strong style that diferentiates it from other fantasy products. The fiction is dependant on pop culture tropes that has already been run into the ground by the time they print the product they were developing at the time.
There's no middle ground for constructed between limited crap piles and PT netdeckes, they seem to expect you to grind and waste your money in ***** they know is ***** "while you learn the game". But there's absolutely no incentive to actually do the grind since planeswalker points are useless unless you're a "pro" who travels to as many GPs as possible and competes in the PT circuit.
And once you're a "pro", it turns out prizes barely cover costs and you'd be making much more money out of professionalizing your hobby if you became a Heartstone streamer like some Magic pros actually did.
On top of that, it's expensive as **** and full of scammers, market manipulation and now constant bans.
Gee I wonder what's wrong with today's Magic.
It's fun that you accuse my experience of being casual because I've seen decks that have top8 in relatively recent events then try to claim 30lp DC was more diverse because there were more non-competitors.
At the moment, none of the remaining decks in DC is notoriously OP, all have glaring flaws and the format is ripe for brewing.
20lp has twice the archetype diversity and now that Vial and Breya are gone I've been seing a lot more fun stuff like Karlov, Mardu Partners, Saskia Slivers, Animar and Akiri+Silas at my LGS.
What about you guys?
Also, I told you they could **** everything up and not ban Strip Mine.
But most of all, I see this causing a massive backlash from the MODO multiplayer community since they're losing a lot of great multiplayer cards because of a format they never even wanted or supported. Meanwhile we were stood up waiting for a unificator competitive format.
But keep nitpicking, that sure erases the doubling/tripling in price of Standard staples that came with Mythic rarity.
Roughly the same as it costs to buy Mardu Vehicles and Death Shadow Jund from zero. Except Magic cards aren't tax deductible or a porwerful business tool and unrelated entertainment platform. The real costs of esports are in travel, housing, healthcare and wages. And primarily concern the team/company owners because the people going for the $M payloads are actually threated like employed athletes unlike Magic "pros" who sometimes don't even make back the cost of attending a PT.
At the semi-pro level, you can make GP money while spending roughly the same money except you spent it in hardware, while the MtG player spent it in cardboard, and that's not even taking streaming into account.
Personally, if I wanted to professionalize my hobbies with the best EvP, I'd avoid both Riot and WotC, and instead look towards EVO.
But it's usually a time barrier rather than an economic barrier unless you decide to become a pro player AND a pro streamer at the same time.
If your Magic-related social media wasn't filled with 34-rhino/oops all rhinos/rhinoception memes you haven't lived. Cardboardcrack alone made at least 6 rhino-related strips.