MTG Salvation

Quote from Werewolf_Rawr »

Quote from hydraoverlord2112 »

Some people here are talking about writing stories for the creative team like it's an easy job. The reason these podcasts exist is because the creative team simply does not have enough time and energy to keep up with a constant demand of great stories. That's not them being lazy or slacking off, that's just the reality of the situation. They are doing their best in everything they do, and imho there have been some huge improvements to magic's storytelling just in the last year. If them doing everything they can do means that we sometimes get these podcasts and/or short blurbs for non-standard products, I'm totally fine with that. If, in midst of the countless tasks that they have do, they miss some random little things, then I'm also fine with that, assuming that it wasn't an intentional mistake that they'll do their best to avoid such in the future.
In addition to many other jobs, the creative team also has to provide a large enough variety of content in order to, ideally, make sure that everyone can find some part of the storytelling cool and engaging. Not everyone is into the same type of story, and some people may absolutely hate only getting blurbs and podcasts for a little while. That's totally fine, there is nothing wrong with your own taste. But please, please don't blame the creative team for not meeting your specific expectations. They are doing everything they can, they are always looking to improve, and I for one don't think they're given enough credit for their hard work.

I don't mind them using podcasts to fill the gaps. But, the quality of these podcasts has been poor. THAT is the issue. Filler for the sake of filler is not something I would want representing my brand. If they're going to half-a** these things I would prefer they not do them at all. I listened to each one hoping to hear something interesting and came away bored and disappointed with each. These didn't need to happen, but they did and they were junk.

What they did accomplish was degrading our perception of the creative team and explain a lot about the poor execution of so many of the stories in the last couple years. There seemed to be very little continuity within the creative team and these podcasts reinforced that.

Oh, this was all in my opinion - just to make that perfectly clear

I totally get that, and if I came across as trying to say something dumb like "your opinion is wrong", I apologize because that was not my intention. Again, I for one did enjoy the podcasts, but that's just a difference of opinion.
No matter what they do in situations like these, some people are always going to be disappointed or upset by their decision. If they had done nothing, I'm willing to be that there would be at least as many, if not more, people that would be equally disappointed (myself included).
I certainly agree that the creative team did not implement these podcasts as well as most of their recent stories. I did still enjoy it, but I can definitely understand how some people may be disappointed. Hopefully all this constructive feedback will help in similar future scenarios.

I wouldn't use the word great to describe every single story since BFZ either, but I also think there's been noticeable improvement ever since. While I know there were some controversial moments in the HOU storyline, imho it was the most consistently well written set in terms of stories for a while.
I honestly don't read anything over then the online stories when it comes to the current main plotline. I do agree that that inconsistency is an issue. I know not everything at WOTC is done at the same time behind the scenes, so that may be part of the problem.
As far as the content of the podcasts, again, different people want different things. I personally have enjoyed all three thus far, and I realize not everyone shares that opinion. That is perfectly fine. It doesn't mean that they made "wrong" decisions, just different ones than what some people wanted (and that is always going to happen).

Some people here are talking about writing stories for the creative team like it's an easy job. The reason these podcasts exist is because the creative team simply does not have enough time and energy to keep up with a constant demand of great stories. That's not them being lazy or slacking off, that's just the reality of the situation. They are doing their best in everything they do, and imho there have been some huge improvements to magic's storytelling just in the last year. If them doing everything they can do means that we sometimes get these podcasts and/or short blurbs for non-standard products, I'm totally fine with that. If, in midst of the countless tasks that they have do, they miss some random little things, then I'm also fine with that, assuming that it wasn't an intentional mistake that they'll do their best to avoid such in the future.
In addition to many other jobs, the creative team also has to provide a large enough variety of content in order to, ideally, make sure that everyone can find some part of the storytelling cool and engaging. Not everyone is into the same type of story, and some people may absolutely hate only getting blurbs and podcasts for a little while. That's totally fine, there is nothing wrong with your own taste. But please, please don't blame the creative team for not meeting your specific expectations. They are doing everything they can, they are always looking to improve, and I for one don't think they're given enough credit for their hard work.

You mean no advancement besides the whole army of Eternals showing up alongside the Scarab God? This story was one of the big five hours. Just because it doesn't directly involve the protagonists doesn't mean it's irrelevant to the plot.

I for one really enjoyed seeing the devastation of Amonkhet from normal citizens' perspectives. I also take it as a good sign that WOTC and Creative have noticed that people want to hear from more than just planeswalkers. I remember hearing once or twice from WOTC and Creative that it's impossible to always please everyone with the stories, as different people want to see different perspectives. Because of this reality, they have started to keep in mind that there needs to be something for everyone, a story for every type of reader if possible. In Hour of Devastation alone now we have viewed the story from the perspectives of a planeswalker, a vizier, other protagonists (Samut namely), multiple of the gods, and now multiple citizens. If this isn't a sign of Creative doing their best to make sure everyone gets to find a story they like, then I don't know what will prove that. Some people will find this story boring and pointless. Others, such as myself, will appreciate being able to view the disaster from these "normal" perspectives. It has been pretty obvious thus far that nothing good is going to happen in this set for the people of Amonkhet, aside from maybe survival for some. Still, I personally found this story to add another more personal level of depth to that disaster. At the end of the day, everyone will have their own opinions, and that is okay. Just know that even though you may not enjoy a story, that does not make it pointless

I'm pretty sure Amonkhet was never sold as a pure Egypt World. It was clearly sold as a world with Egyptian influences (of which there are plenty within the block), but the big overarching theme of the plane was that it was shaped (even if not totally created) by Nicol Bolas. I can totally understand wanting a pure egypt plane, but I'm not sure why you seem to be upset at Amonkhet for not delivering on a story that was never promised.
(Note, I may very well be misinterpreting you're complaints, in which case I'd love for you to explain a bit more)

I hear what people are saying with Razaketh going down to easy, although I'm of a slightly different opinion. Normally I'd be more curious as to why the demon didn't not use magic in the battle (aside from Lili's contract), but I think there's actually a pretty solid explanation for it. Jace said in the middle of the fight that he had been trying to interrupt the contract's connection for the past ten minutes. That means that for the entire fight, Razaketh had to fight to keep control of Lili (albeit fighting to varying extents). Between that mental struggle, Chandra's fireballs and Nissa's elementals, it's now wonder that the guy couldn't focus on using other kinds of magic. Not to mention the near constant of surprise factor of planeswalker after planeswalker showing up. Seriously, first the guy gets blasted in the back of the head, then gets sucker punched by some elementals, then gets mentally assault by who know's what (Jace was invisible still), and to top it all off some indestructible beefslab just appears out of thin air waving a shiny whip thing. Even as smart and experienced as Razaketh may have been, that would put anyone off guard (okay, maybe not Bolas or Ugin, but still).

I for one find it hard to believe that anyone is still complaining about the BFZ/Oath stories and are still demanding answers. I get it, plotholes can be annoying, but how can anyone still be interested in those? We are officially in the middle of the third set block after Oath and BFZ. Yes, there are plotholes there, but please just move on. Maybe my opinion is in the minority, but I really don't care about those anymore, and overall the stories have improved vastly.

Quote from Arcanus Dominus »

[...]
In "The Hand That Moves" from Amonkhet
[...]
That passage sounds suspiciously like the Immortal Sun being used to destroy the Guildpact. Which makes some sense - since the Immortal Sun contains Azor's spark, can it be used to undo Azor's other creations?

That's an important catch, given what we now know. It makes sense that if Nicol Bolas wants to dominate Ravnica, he'll have to destroy the Guildpact. I doubt that dominating a single plane, albeit an important one, is the end of Bolas' plans though. My understanding is that early drafts of the RtR storyline had Ravnica become the new centre of the Multiverse. As others have speculated, what if they were saving that story beat for later? Ruling the literal centre of everything? Now that's a goal worthy of Nicol Bolas.

On a meta level, Wizards clearly wants to pass the torch of Magic's main plane from Dominaria to Ravnica. If Bolas destroys the Guildpact, then Ravnica becomes the perfect blank lore-canvas. They get to keep the diverse, developed, (and popular) urban setting, but they rid themselves of the restrictions that every character and story needs a basis in the guild system. They also get to have the climax of their current story happen on a plane that both recent and long-enfranchised players care about, and where their flagship characters are based. It's marketing genius, and it makes me frankly excited for the future of the story.

Quote from 5colors »

Well a few issues come to mind, Ugin maybe unable to now speak between planes post mending, he being unable to go to Ixalan without being trap and the very real possibility Bolas had already in some form killed or got rid of Azor or even Azor dying he was mortal.

When Ugin woke, the first person he saw was Sorin and his news that the Eldrazi was free. It would only be fair to consider the Eldrazi an even bigger threat than even Nicol Bolas.

At any rate, to save Azor Ugin would have to relocate Bolas, inform Azor telepathically Bolas’ new location, then defeat an enemy that NEARLY KILLED HIM. At this point, there really wasn’t a lot of options as far as Azor was concerned.

It seems Azor has an uncontrollable hero complex.

He was completely unperturbed by the idea of sacrificing his spark to achieve a vaguely conceptualised ‘good’. When that failed, he immediately set about creating law on Ixalan, not because there genuinely was a problem to solve, but because it would satisfy his own ego.

From the way he treated the people on the ‘Palace of Justice’ plane as a conscriptable welcome party he could muster and disperse at a whim, it is clear his actions are motivated more by a desire to BE a a source of ‘good’ than any actual concern for his ‘subjects’. Previous worlds like Ravnica and the plane with the one-handed elf may have been spared the worst because the laws there solved actual problems, others like the ‘Palace of Justice’ plane were purely ego projects with inevitably disastrous consequences.

Could Azor be gradually descending into senility even before Ixalan? It would explain his deteriorating work.

-We see Ugin and Azor plan to trap Bolas only for Bolas to find out about Azor and while "investigating" Azor he finds out Ugin and Azor are teaming up to stop him, Azor doing the plans in directly by being so vain.

-The Sun gives the user a power booster similar to old walkers.

-The battle on Tarkir was Bolas stopping Azor and Ugin locking those events together.

-Poor Azor, I disagree with what he did but he must have felt so betrayed after Ugin was *killed*.

-Those who think Bolas wants to invade Ravnica you are indeed right.

-Most of where right Vraska plans on being a sleeper agent, thinking it best to first get whatever power Bolas might give her as some form of weapon against him.

-Ohhhhh I like this aspect of Vraska spelled out more, her goals always involve surivial a very black/green idea.

-Bolas won't be looking for a new Jace-power level telepath, which how Jace is sure he can keep her memories hidden.

-Jace is planning to get Niv help....this surely won't end badly.

-No oath for Vraska but a promise, a pact is made for Vraska to become a sleeper agent. and a date for when Vraska gets her memories back...T-T

-And now Bolas has the Sun and walkers are able to leave Ixalan for the first time in ~1,280 years.

-Looks like the next two stories will focus on the Huatli/Angrath/legends/factions storyline, with Vraska gone and Jace really not having any reason to stay on Ixalan with time being of the essence. Oh and Jace out rights says they are meeting on Dominaria which we all knew.

Quote from cyberium_neo »

Azor deemed "law-bringing to all worlds" as his purpose, and that was my point; a sphinx could act out of preference even when s/he considers something more important than being aloof and isolated. I am solely interpreting Azor's motives base on what he had done/traveled, its effectiveness is of course subject to discussion.

Given how Guildpact loopholes was capable of being exploited, I don't assume Jace's punishment would be everlasting, at least not until he changed his mind or someone broke it. However, until the said situations happened, Azor's punishment is indeed eternal, a Schrödinger's Cat if you will, because Jace has not reason to change his mind, and the fact that he exiled Azor to a remote island away from all civilization on a non-consequential plane (after the Sun is taken) implies that he has no intention to remember about Azor or improve Azor's chance of meeting people. I don't believe Jace did this without his old trauma at work, because "forget" about something was his preferred way of ridding the problems of his life, here is just a more physical way of making it happen without inducing amnesia on himself; out of sight out of mind.

It is still torture, regardless of who we applied it on. We can acknowledge the cruelty of our actions even if it's for the greater good of a society, the goal is to hopefully reduce the need of such action.

HOWEVER, we are also a society without telepath who could correct a person's mind, therefore locking people up is the best thing we could do (and improve overall education and socioeconomic average, but that's an unrelated topic all together). The reason I have issue with Jace was because he is capable of so much more than us Earthling, yet he chose the least productive way to rid of a problem. He didn't exile Azor out of malice, but the result of his action remain a cruel one. Again, I believe his action has a lot to do with both his and Vraska's distain towards Sphinx and Azorius, respectively, WotC willing, he might eventually realize the implication of his judgment.

If we look at Vryn, where Alhammarret maintains a conflict to protect the Mage Rings, we can assume some sphinxes manage their business by first identifying the greatest objective, and every other facets will be supportive and empowerment, minor conflicts allowed if they serve the greater good. My guess is that Azor also wanted competitions amongst the guild just so the society would not descent into complete ruins like 10,000 years ago. Even without a senate system, the guilds were considered the epitome of ruling government, and they all agree each has functions beneficial to the society; Azorius is the face rule maker, Boros being the police, Golgari manage the waste, Gruul being the chaotic reminder of past, etc. It's not perfect, but it served its purpose at stopping the ancient war and allow the populace to find a place they belong, talents utilized, and ambition fulfilled.

It is surprising that Azor would making Living Guildpact the failsafe, consider his distrust for people, perhaps he was hoping a sphinx to win the maze?

I want to borrow Gideon's words here, he said PW are those who could always just leave, but they could also choose to stay. Azor is the former, he could just walk away from his problem, and because he never stayed he never learned that he made a mistake. Though I must say chance of a PW telepath who happened to solve the maze appear on Ixalan is very, very low, in most cases Azor would have no issues with people finding the loophole; he's no longer where the people are, and Azor may be the only individual who could (with the Sun's help) summon those he want via hieromancy across the multiverse.

And his colors. WU is the classic color combination where you expect people to make mistakes, then correct them. We do have to wonder if Azor created the laws intended for them to be broken, just so he could punish the sinners, like Catholic God who put forbidden fruits inside Eden with Adam and Eve in it. The encounter in the story is too short for us to know Azor more, but we can guess.

Liliana is not the best example here, but we did see her growth during to her time with the Gatewatch and Jace, which is why I'm reluctant to assume Azor, a character we just met with barely any chance to learn about him further, base on his old walker status. With Jaya coming in Dominaria, the passionate red PW might give us more perspective on how some old walkers are capable of remaining sassy. Hell, red mana could make a Phyrexian care.

I think we've reached the point we need to agree to disagree. I think you might be a bit too fixated on the context of Jace's immediate punishment on Azor. Yes, Jace's action is cruel and it may be torture (I'll have to withhold since don't know enough about Azor on whether he could be bored to death and cannot actually assume either way, the only point is there are enough sphinx examples to prove sentience alone isn't definitive enough to prove boredom will kill Azor), but Jace's action is immediate as of now (as in we basically just read about it). It's unfair to judge him for not acknowledging it immediately after (especially after the whole mental distress part).

Meanwhile Azor outright doesn't acknowledge his own cruelty, he built systems that basically requires everyone to think like him to function effectively and then rants that it didn't work out because others don't think like him. He made a concession to nine other systems (the Guilds) when he set up the first Guildpact but the backup does display those "me or the highway" tendencies. Sure, he left before he could learn his mistakes, but when confronted with them he just went on a rant about how it's not his mistake instead of contemplation and the best example is right on Ixalan - he gifted the Sun (and his Laws) to those he deemed worthy first and when it didn't work out, he didn't stay and figure out how to fix it and instead decided to just transfer it to another faction instead. Guess what? None of them worked out, because Azor's techniques were fundamentally flawed from the start - he built systems to govern people without the consideration of others at all, only himself.

What Azor did was not the straightforward-form of cruelty like Jace, but a more abstract form of it that scars the social hierarchy of societies/planes, but is no less a cruelty. In fact it's probably more, because it's capable of breeding individual straightforward cases like Vraska's (that wasn't even a direct consequence, but a aftermath one). Jace, as a powerful telepath planeswalker might be able to bring individuals or groups to their kness, but Azor as an oldwalker back then, most certainly brought down entire nations/planes to theirs and he utilized it wrongly just as much as Jace does now.

Perhaps I am a bit too fixated on it, but the minute Azor ranted about it being the citizens' fault the systems failed, it spoke volumes of him much more than anything else in the story - from there I do not buy he ever created the laws to be broken in the first place, but simply expected people to be in the same line of thinking that he was in.

Jace might have done wrong, but Azor did the exact same mistakes on a larger scale. Jace still has the chance to redeem himself (especially with the running theory that Mage-Rings were Azor's doing, so this entire cruel decision is just a hook-back for Jace later on when he goes back to Vryn), but Ixalan itself is the nail in the coffin for Azor's redemption because he did exact same thing on the plane, was basically given the chance to recognize his mistakes (since he no longer could leave the plane) and well, pretty much didn't. Azor might have much more noble intentions than Jace, but when you've wrong fundamentals in practice that will have much larger detrimental consequences, I would say the more driven the intention, the worse it becomes instead.

We have might just met Azor directly, but we've been in a plane that has been baring the scars from wounds he inflicted since he actually stayed and I can assure you while a Sphinx oldwalker is easier to correct than an Elder Dragon (of any type) for sure, it's probably still a world harder than correcting Kor/Vampire oldwalkers and I assure you they probably have no time to even try (especially if a Primal Calamity may or may not be on the way).

Magic's multiverse where conflict and warfare are the norm. There are few other planes that can match the quality of life that Ravnica's typical citizens enjoy

Until the Rakdos Cult murders them, the Gruul Clan steals their things, they break the most minor law and the Azorious Guild sends the Wojeks after them, a dimir spy murders them to replace them for a super secret reason, or they get into debt with the Orhzov Guild and get made into a slave..or work for the Simic and Izzet guild and get put into an experiment..FOR SCIENCE!

Plus, if anything justifies Azor leaving whatever obligations he might have to the planes he influenced, surely trying to imprison Bolas does. It's not Azor's fault that Ugin got jumped.

Leaving for a Half-baked plan that very likely wouldn't have worked.

So my question is, what do Jace and Vraska think Azor *should* have done? Never tried to help anybody? Stayed on whatever his home plane was? Followed some sort of Planeswalker Prime Directive? I'm not arguing that Azor was guiltless or anything; his arrogance and inability to admit flaws in his design made him inflexible and unable to appreciate the need for governmental systems to account for mortal frailties. But on the whole, it's arguable that he did more good than harm, which is more than can be said for several other well-intentioned oldwalkers.

and how much of that good was based on pure chance and luck, if the Rakdos participant in the Maze got to the end guess what would have happened? Do you think "If you don't take the guildpact I will murder everyone." would be a choice to a Rakdos guild member? The folks who have festivals where they walk through the streets trying to make a river of blood? Or if Ral Zarek won..and you have an Agent of Nicol Bolas in Charge of the place.

Oh and mind you, his very presence on Ixalan set off a Civil War that lead to the expulsion of the losers creating the Brazen Coalition, The Sun Empire's expansionist policies, the Merfolk's distrust of outsiders because of their "mission." and a Religion of Vampires who execute "sinners" by drinking their blood and who look at people like "Vona The Butcher of Magan." as heroes, oh and locked away innocent people like Angrath. In the very least Ugin had a valid reason for the crap he pulled with the Eldrazi, as studying the things could lead to real knowledge of the blind eternities.

Quote from cyberium_neo »

It's ironic, because Jace/Vraska criticized Azor for NOT staying in one place.

To understand a character, we give him all the options and power in the universe and ask him, "What would you do now?"

From what the story told us, Azor travelled far and beyond to hone governments (or build one from ashes) on different worlds, he would not stay in one place had he a CHOICE. Isperia, as Ryuplaneswalker quoted above, do things against her preference when she sensed a greater calling, it's not too different from Azor, even if his was delusional. Sphinxes are fully capable of acting out of duty.

I understand, but can you imagine cutting off Luciano Pavarotti's tongue, mentally or physically?

Whatever Azor's personal flaws, he is more capable (not to mention useful) than ruling a remote island. He would commit to his new duty, but he would also know that he could do so much more. As I explained to Ryuplaneswalker earlier, a person with enough insight to know his/her potential but without a mean to express it, is in itself a torture. Bolas would've been able to plan for an escape, but Azor is very much locked down by his own doing, without chance of leaving, or redemption. His needs a lesson in humility, but an eternity of uselessness is harsh for anyone. Honestly, why not just kill him? There's great mercy in death.

Hopefully Jace would one day return and allow Azor to make amend for his action.

Understand, when I wrote, "Being an Old Walker doesn't automatically make an individual a psychopath (i.e., incapable of feeling and empathy)," I'm not suggesting they are philanthropists. I was merely pointing out that we mustn't automatically assume Old Walkers to be void of feelings and empathy; Azor clearly showed his emotions during the story, and Liliana have on rare occasions demonstrated her caring for others. I'm not appeased by Jace's treatment of Azor because of the former, and I suspect Jace's action had a lot to do with his own need of overcoming a trauma and taking control of his new life. I don't blame him for that, but still think he could've made a better judgment.

Isperia's case was vastly different from Azor's - the Azorius (relevant members who were right under the Guild's internal systems) took active efforts to convince her to take charge of the guild, whereas Azor most likely imposed his laws on any plane he deemed chaotic, not its citizens. (I find it hard to see how the Rakdos and/or Gruul would have personally petitioned Azor to set up the Guildpact, they were the guilds that seemed way better off without it then with it.)

You're assuming that the Living Guildpact's Judgment would be eternal. On top of Jace possibly changing his mind later on, there's no guarantee the sentence (via the Guildpact's remaining power) might hold after his death (considering the first Guildpact didn't actually manage to have a literal contingency capable of holding out until the Living one took over). In the regard that Jace might not have made the best judgment and hoping that he returns later to rectify it we do agree, but all because he set an "otherwise eternity" statement as a "just in case" while he was under mental distress (and hence technically not qualified to judge, but he had no freedom in his choice of timeframe at the moment either, considering Ixalan's immediate outside conditions), it's unfair to judge Jace as cruel either.

I don't buy the "insight for potential" concept for Azor though (note that I do understand why it's a torture), using the murderer analogy again (same disclaimer, not the best one, but Azor did set up a genocide contingency to prevent the freedom of choice for the Living Guildpact), if someone thinks he has the potential to be the best murderer (as twisted as that is, it's not an impossible psyche) but is simply stopped because society disagrees (and there are laws around it), isn't it also a torture for said murderer when he is in solitary confinement? To the murderer it is his duty, his higher calling and society has denied him that.

If society deeming it not a duty/higher calling is considered enough for the murderer's own consideration to be valid, then Jace's judgment that Ravnica Society didn't deem the Azor's actions as valid is along the same lines. Is it unfair that Jace gets to represent Ravnica society just like that? Yes, but reminder Azor himself set up the backup plan to function like that (and rubbed it in with the "genocide plane if winner refuses" on top of that to reinforce that it was intended). I'm not buying Azor didn't think it through and set it up like a senate system (with the Guild Leaders as the senate, especially when I think the Maze had a clause preventing Leaders from participating anyway) when the first Guildpact essentially ran like one, except without an overall leader (mainly because I think the Guilds refused to have one).

As for the other planes, it's just fluff - Jace can say it because he has the extra perception as a planeswalker himself, but the Guildpact isn't actually capable of punishing Azor for his other "crimes" and Jace doesn't represent those societies. Is it unfair that other societies might get "punished" (or denied their chance to punish) because Jace did what he did? Yes, but Azor also wrote himself to be accountable to each (but not every simultaneously) set of law magic he wrote, I think and that's where all the hypocrisy comes in - even if Jace didn't do it, but some other plane's system punished Azor instead, would it be unfair to Ravnica? This is why I think Azor is the epitome of "Lawful Stupid" - he wrote multiple laws over multiple planes that basically wrote himself into a multiverse criminal (on the technicalities of his own law) and now we're left scrambling to see which plane actually has the right to punish him. You would think someone (especially with a Sphinx) who thinks of law-creating as his higher calling would be able to account for major loopholes like this, right (or at the very least, stay long enough to refine it so it doesn't bite you back eventually).

As for the oldwalker topic, yes they were not devoid of feelings and empathy, but most of their feelings (if not all) revolve only themselves and their empathy only extends to extremely small groups relative to everything they could see and have access to. It's not about the lack of having them, it's the scope of those emotions (not variety of emotions, scope) and considering how much oldwalkers know of the multiverse, how much they care about is tiny enough that they are technically all psychopaths to some degree. In Azor's case, multiple planes mean nothing since he has been shown to not actually care about the citizens at all (blaming them for the system's failure along with a contingency that involves killing them all anyway).

Quote from Etherium Sage »

I wonder if Azor's Sphinx nature contributed to his habit of ditching planes after he brought them government. What I mean is: Maybe he didn't want to have to get too personally involved with the people because of his solitary nature, so he did what he had to do to establish a system of government and then left when he felt he no longer needed to interact with the locals.

Combination of that, being a planeswalker and Blues habit of valuing "only Logic."

My emphasis was not about Azor's biology, but about your comment implying that because Azor is not human we cannot understand him, which isn't accurate. If I ask you what kind of individual Nicol Bolas is, you can probably tell me in details, even if he's an Elder Dragon, because there are enough evidences to give us that insight even if we're blind to his greater scheme. Not every information needs to be handed to us on a silver plater for us to know something.

My comment isn't implying anything about not understanding him, my comment is about the fact that him not being human might mean that he doesn't have the same needs as Humans, because the social needs of humans are largely an evolutionary trait.

As for Nicol Bolas, I can 100% tell you the reasoning behind his greater scheme. He either wants Power. Either Personal Magical Power that brings him closer to "being the god I once was." or brings him closer to ruling the Multiverse, which guess what..Fits what we know about the base instincts of Dragons in fantasy. They are Greedy jerks, and instead of having a Pile of Treasure in a cave Nicol Bolas had a Pile of Planes he ruled.

"As crime and chaos on Ravnica increased in the absence of the Guildpact, however, and as its denizens more vocally demanded laws and their enforcement, Isperia decided her service was needed enough to trump her own preferences." Yes, a sphinx can act against its preference for a greater purpose, which motivated Azor to travel across the multiverse.

And it took YEARS of convincing to drag her out of her lair to do something about it, and the context we are discussing things isn't in preferences it is in Cultural and Biological needs, Ispera had to be convinced to go against her preference. Jace did the opposite of that, if he wanted to subject Azor to an "eternal hell" he would have sent Azor in the middle of the largest Pirate town for the rest of his life where he would have constant social contact.

And many sphinxes on Amonkhet lives amongst the citizens. Just like human, not all sphinxes are the same in behaviors.

And those Sphinxes were also under a curse from the God Pharoh and were trying to get people to wake the heck up to the fact that Nicol Bolas was going to show up and KILL THEM ALL..you know sorta like Ispera got up off her but after years of Ravnica descending into chaos.

It's ironic, because Jace/Vraska criticized Azor for NOT staying in one place.

To understand a character, we give him all the options and power in the universe and ask him, "What would you do now?"

No, Jace/Vraska criticized Azor for screwing Ravnica and Ixalan, regardless of whatever you think of the original guildpact..the "fail safe" plan was absurd, imagine if the Rakdos or Gruul runners got to the end before Jace did, or if Ral did, if Ral got to the end first the fail safe would have handed the entire plane of Ravnica to Nicol Bolas.

Except in the latest story we saw Azor clearly expressing emotions, even if they are self-serving, which is why I have issues with Jace's verdict

I never said that Oldwalker's did not have emotions. I said they were often at best utterly Insane. Insane does not mean you don't have emotions Insane means you are completely out of touch with reality. Urza was completely off his rocker for decades, creating a miniature model of the day he and his brother last meet peacefully and replaying it over and over to figure out if Mishra were already under Phyrexian control at the time, Frealize decided that after Argoth the solution to "Humans cutting down forests" was to turn the llanowar elves so xenophobic that if you snap a twig in the forest they break your leg.

Even the most altruistic of Old-Walkers left Destruction in Chaos in their wake because they were largely not mentally well, though if your entire civilization and family are dead by several thousand years, not being mentally well is probably to be expected.

The argument we are having isn't about Empathy, the argument is about Old-walkers being Narrow minded and Obsessive, and that is what they across both the good and evil scare largely are.

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