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  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    [Deck]
    Creatures (11)
    4 Sylvan Caryatid
    2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Fulminator Mage
    1 Sun Titan
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

    Spells (21)
    4 Gifts Ungiven
    4 Lingering Souls
    3 Collective Brutality
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Path to exile
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Assassin's Trophy
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Unburial Rites
    1 Wrath of God
    1 Day of Judgment
    1 Supreme Verdict

    Other (4)
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Liliana, the last hope
    1 Nihil Spellbomb

    Lands (24)
    4 Marsh flats
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Polluted delta
    1 Hallowed Fountain
    1 Watery grave
    1 Godless Shrine
    1 Overgrown Tomb
    1 Temple Garden
    1 Fetid Heath
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Field of Ruin
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains
    1 Island
    1 Forest

    Sideboard
    1 Thoughtseize
    1 Duress
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    1 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Raven's Crime
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Extirpate
    1 Unmoored Ego
    1 Knight of Autumn
    1 Negate
    1 Countersquall
    1 Fracturing Gust
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Academy Ruins [/ deck]

    My first idea
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    Alright, so I ordered everything I need except for the Polluted Deltas. Unfortunately the list I was looking at when I said all I was missing was the DS’s and the U Shocklands was THIS ONE that didn’t play any Deltas (and played 4x Verdants, 4x Mires, and 3x Foothills instead), I’m assuming as a budget decision. I didn’t realize it at the time.

    I could order the Deltas now, but I kinda already pushed my budget limits. I bought a second Liliana, the Last Hope, the fourth Leyline of the Void (I needed that one anyway, I thought I could get by with three because the Hollow One decks were only running three back when I purchased those), and a fourth Lorwyn Thoughtseize (I only ever needed three at most for Jund. I have Theros TS’s, but there’s no way I’m running mismatched cards or even newer printings of cards in a deck I care about). Those cards, plus the DS’s and old U Shocklands, kinda maxed me out $$$wise.

    So, with that said, I’m going to try both Jund DS and 4c DS, and if I find that the Wooded Foothills are just too bad in 4c, I may trade some stuff into my LGS for 4x Khans Polluted Deltas as a placeholder until I can spring for the Onslaught Deltas. Do you think the Foothills will be a big setback to my manabase? I can’t stand playing suboptimal lists.

    I can’t lie, I watched some videos last night (Holy s*** Hoogland is almost unbearable to listen to sometimes) and Stubborn Denial seems really strong (and like you said, fetching for U really just forwards our plan of getting below 13 life, so there’s really not a downside). I’m motivated to play 4c based on what I saw and per your suggestion, Siegel. BUT... straight Jund Shadow would make me feel a little closer to home like I was just playing an Aggro-oriented classic Jund list. And between that familiarity, not needing Deltas, and because of DeFish’s suggestion, I’m also inclined to play that version. So I will try both, and do more research in the meantime.

    I do really want to know though, so give it to me straight, how bad is Wooded Foothills in 4c? Is it going to give me a skewed impression of the deck? Here is that list again that I was initially going off of, for reference.

    And I really appreciate the input, by the way. Both of y’all.


    While the choice between 4c and Jund is basically dependent on how important stubborn denial is for your expected meta game, I think that Wooded Foothills are generally ok considering a couple factors. As a die-hard 4c player myself, I find that watery grave is typically the first shock I fetch. Now of course this depends on my opening hand and what I know about the opponent so far, but consider that my only main deck blue cards are 3x Stubborn. My value for blue may be accentuated by the blue sideboard options. Burn and Tron are very popular and they are both match-ups that are easy to push to 60% or better with some sideboard tech.

    Here's why I consider all 4 colors to be critical.
    Blue is crucial for beating burn and KCI (counter spells), and still very good against Tron, Storm, Dredge and Primeval Titan.
    Red is crucial for beating Humans and Spirits (removal, sweepers, TBR) but also helps against Affinity, Scales, KCI, and Storm.

    And while BGx midrange and UWx control are near impossible to win, I feel that my counter spells are one of the few edges I have in the match ups. For reference, here's my current list

    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on 2018 - MTGS Cube Form Secret Santa Exchange! (Sign-ups due Dec 10th)
    Great to have you back!

    Everyone please send me your wish lists. I'll send out pairings tomorrow, giving anyone a last minute chance to sign up throughout today.
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    Thanks for the reports. Congrats on your recent success.

    You make a great case for the ramp creatures. I especially like Caryatid because of the hexproof. Do you think 4 is excessive? How often were you disappointed to see her as a top deck late game?

    I may start testing a list similar to yours, with heavier white for sweepers and Sun Titan. Do you feel Liliana of the Veil or Jace, Vryn's Prodigy have any place in here? Even as 1x each
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on 2018 - MTGS Cube Form Secret Santa Exchange! (Sign-ups due Dec 10th)
    Tomorrow is the deadline. Can we get at least one more to sign up?
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    K-Command in the maindeck is one of the strangest things to me. It's completely dependent on your expected meta game. Personally I feel like our KCI and affinity (including scales) match ups should be fairly good anyway.

    If you wantto be prepared for KCI, extra counter spells work great and also pull double duty against burn, Tron, and Valakut. If you're liking KCMD for its affinity application, I would say straight removal wouldbe better because you can also use it against humans and spirits.

    All that being said, I personally still use 1x KCmd in my sideboard.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on What does Midrange need to thrive?
    Quote from idSurge »
    It being 'dead' is the point of this thread. Bringing back 'midrange' as we intrinsically as Modern players understand it to be, is the point. Calling Humans Midrange, is not it.

    You're the only person in the thread arguing that midrange specifically means BGx. I don't think many others would agree that the two terms are as equal as you feel. BGx, as its referred to in modern (Jund, Junk, Rock) is certainly midrange, but not at all midrange is going to be BGx.

    But debating this seems pointless since you've defined midrange as only lists with spell-based interaction. I personally disagree and don't care to take the discussion further.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on What does Midrange need to thrive?
    Quote from idSurge »
    I've been aggro killed by Humans on Turn 3. Thats not Midrange, and no BGx (non-shadow) deck can do that, same as UWR Midrange (Bolts, Counters, Turn the Corner with Resto/Snap Burn) and so on..

    Would you care to share that line of play? Assuming you're not dealing most of the damage to yourself (a la Shadow) how on earth did a humans deck kill you on turn 3?
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on What does Midrange need to thrive?
    So "midrange" implies only non-combo Thoughtseize decks? I would disagree. What about Jeskai midrange?

    Humans is a disruption deck, not a linear deck (such as aggro). They win with creature beats sure, but then again don't most decks? Meddling Mage, Kitesail Freebooter, Reflector Mage, Thalia... these all rank fairly low on the aggressive scale, but are crucial to the deck.

    I don't think tribal is a relevant classification when comparing midrange, combo, aggro, and control. But maybe I'm wrong. Elves and Humans play COMPLETELY differently but stillboth considered tribal.
    Maybe the generally accepted meaning of midrange is running not too many creatures (otherwise you're aggro) and not too many spells (otherwise you're control).

    To me, aggro is leaner, low mulligan beats. They love to goldfish turn 4 wins, and typicallyhave little interaction tools to deal with opponents plans. Lots of redundancy

    To me, midrange is early disruption, plenty of outs, but reasonable threat density to close games. Reasonable amount of interaction. Little redundancy, but catch-all answers.

    Combo is, like aggro, very linear with little interaction. Very redundant, loves to win quickly. Though different than aggro, they mulligan more and rely on specific synergy between cards.

    Control is a plethora of answers, with few threats. Long term card advantage is prioritized. Exhausting opponents resources, knowing you'll have the inevitability.

    I don't feel like the ratio of creatures to spells should affect these definitions. Martyr-Proc is a control deck, but it relies on creatures. Burn is an aggro deck, but it relies on spells. Just because Humans is "Tribal" and often wins by going wide, doesn't keep their overall strategy from being considered midrange.

    TLDR, and back on topic:

    Midrange is fine in modern, its just not well represented by BGx and that makes people sad.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on What does Midrange need to thrive?
    I think this thread really only seems about BGx midrange and not modern midrange. To me, midrange means decks that pack early disruption but can close the game reasonably quick when the opportunity arises. Some non-BGx examples are Unburial Gifts, Classic splinter twin (RIP), and Mardu Pyromancer. These decks try to keep a wide range of decent match-ups with very few poor or great ones.

    Modern has some great midrange decks right now and the best deck IMHO is humans which is undoubtedly midrange. Just because their answers and disruption are creature-based instead of spell-based doesn't make them an aggro deck. Also Spirits (T1) and Deaths Shadow (T2) are both midrange decks that are completely viable in this meta game.

    Midrange doesn't have to be traditional tarmogoyf decks with 40% non-creature spells. They come in many forms. A deck with well-rounded answers but can reasonably win the game by turn 5 is what I would define as midrange
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Shaman of the Great Hunt
    Quote from The Fluff »
    Speaking as a Ponza player. What attracted me to testing shaman is the card draw. The problem is Tireless Tracker does the same thing but she comes down at three mana, compared to shaman who needs 4 mana to cast. Still considering the shaman as a possible 5th tracker, if I ever need another creature that can draw cards.

    What about the other 4-mana cards on your curve? If you're already maxed out on BBE then wouldn't their still be better cards at 4 CMC than Shaman OTGH? Such as Mwonvuli Acid Moss or Garruk Wildspeaker
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Two extra large packs, instead of three normal-sized packs?
    As a cuber who rarely gets the full 8 players (we usually only have 4-6) in my 400 cube, it is definitely important to draft larger pools. We usually do three packs of 20, just so there's a higher likelihood of the different archetypes being supported.

    Example: in my last cube, we did no funny business with pack size. Just four dudes, three packs of 15. Three of us drafted UB reanimator (one guy had esper actually) and the fourth player drafted Bant midrange. It made for some awkward games.

    I think regardless of your cube size or amount of players on a given cube session, you should try to make sure at least 2/3 of the cube is seen each time to increase likelihood of different archetype representation
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on Counterspells in Cube

    400 cards with rarely a full 8-players. I dislike FOW so probably would never include it but I would like to add Cryptic Command eventually. Dissipate probably seems outof place but my cube has a strong graveyard-matters theme so it can be very relevant.
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on [Official] Altered/Pimp Cube Cards Thread
    Quote from CodeSim »
    I've been working on completing this for a few years now and finally got the last ones on Black Friday! 50 of each plains, island, swamp, mountain, and forest, and 15 wastes!

    Much love! The unhinged basics have always been my favorite, even preferred over unstable.

    I'm working on completing my cube basics with foil full art Jung Park basics. He does great work and I personally really love his signature. I'm only about 30% complete though
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on 4c ShadowWick
    I love the innovation here. But the problem I see is that you don't have many two-drops to be pitching for Eldritch Evolution. Snapcaster is great but you generally wanna save him in hand for a decent value play mid-game. Maybe focus on other creatures that have high power when in hand? Maybe something like Hunted Horror? Or simply just standard two-drop utility such as Scavenging Ooze.

    -Edit-


    Just some constructive input
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
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