@maniospas apart from "clearing the way" against control it's been crazy vs storm and friends. The vast majority of the answers storm has for us is bounce effects, and the best way to combat that is with dudes that don't care about getting killed and bounced. Im on a slower list (2 cobra 3 rallier 4 voice) so the fast combo matchups were a real struggle til I tried sin collectors, it's much more manageable now. Copying or blinking him is also lights out for storm most of the time.
is anyone still splashing black? I'm on it for a rhino and (sometimes) a vengeful rebel maindeck. I can't really run kiki in that build but I've also been running sin collectors side which have been absolute all stars against control and Combo. Getting to copy or blink them is just icing on the cake
I have found voice of resurgence to work wonders in the Jund matchup - especially with ralliers. In builds focused on asap comboing you just don't have enough cards to overload their removal (cobra is the worst offender here) and they can durdle along holding up a removal spell or two to disrupt a whole chain of cards leading up to the combo
I'm running gearhulk in the side, it's surprisingly versatile, you can catch anything from elves to lantern control (lots of lantern at my LGS) with it. Probably meta dependent though, it seems good against humans, but it's lacklustre vs affinity. Definitely wouldn't maindeck it either.
hey guys,
been following this thread for a while and love the deck. i've finally got round to building it in paper and want to online as well. i've just got a few questions regarding the deck and would love some help constructing.
- i'm unsure on how many dorks i want to be playing. a list from the most recent modern challenge played 4 bird/3 noble and shaved lotus cobra to two. the more dorks = fewer two drops?
- looking at the manabase it seems completely crazy to play magus of the moon/blood moon but so many lists are playing one or both now, can the deck operate smoothly through the moon effect?
- is 4 felidar guardian favoured over running a single one
I have been playing 6 dork/2 cobra and have been liking it, but there has been discussion about the full 8 dorks to improve opening hands, which sounds like a good direction to be going.
With the amount of dorks we play moon is quite manageable - especially if we are dropping it on our own turns. the lists have 6-10 nonland sources of mana, can run anywhere from 3-5 basics, and with the help of oath of nissa we can cast saheeli for RRR. Certainly a potent sideboard card that doesn't hurt the deck much.
1 Felidar leaves you way too susceptible to a single path to exile ruining your chances of combo, most people are running 2-3, with some lists running the full 4.
Hey dudes, went down to GP Sydney, 3-3-0 dropped the main event with UW control and had plenty of time to jam Saheeli in Side events, pulled a 3-0 in Big Prize Points Modern on Sunday! Was super stoked, mini tournament report below:
Round 1:
2-1, Played a friend of mine from Brisbane on Temur eternal command.
Game 1:
he spun his wheels pretty hard while I set up with finks/rhino/voice. He found a late vial and resolved a goyf but it wasn't enough to keep the team from hitting for lethal.
Game 2:
he told me afterwards he has half his bolts in the side, and I really felt the difference this game. Got bolted off dorks turn 1 and 2, then a chain of cryptic > vialed in snap > cryptic stranded me unable to resolve anything meaningful.
Game 3:
He hasn't actually seen the combo at this point, and thinks I'm on some kind of Abzan value list. I play the same as game 1, he doesn't hit a vial but hits his early goyfs and cryptics, I grind him out of answers before I unexpectedly combo him.
Round 2: Mardu pyromancer, 2-0
Game 1:
I resolve a siege rhino and evo for the other, copying 1 next turn with a topdecked saheeli for the concession.
Game 2:
I resolve a t2 pridemage into his t3 moon. The pridemage ended up dealing exactly 12 damage to him, as he fails to cast anything for 4 turns. he has access to BBR, I wonder what could possibly be in his hand, until I'm prompted to blow up the moon in response to a fatal push, I found out as he casts and flashbacks 3 souls over the course of the next 3 turns. he was at 5 at this point (3 from fetch shock, 12 from qasali), and things were looking grim for me, facing down 6 or so spirits, until he double fetched to 3 and let a siege rhino finish the game.
Round 3: Lantern, 2-0
Game 1:
he fails to find a bridge, or assemble a meaningful topdeck lock, and voice/unrevolted vengeful rebel beats seal game 1.
Game 2:
My opponent was running some spicy tech - he resolved a thopter foundry early on and was chumping my dudes until I evo'd for the rhino, trample was super relevant here.
My takeaway from the tournament, and the weekend, was that we can hide the combo fairly easily game 1, and it makes our opponents make drastically different sideboard choices, as both the lantern and Temur player didn't know about the combo until at least game 2.
Siege rhino was a total MVP, drew him heaps and he put in work.
I also played against a lot of bogles, and got taken to town by them, I could never really work myself into a position to drop Saheeli safely or blow them out with Cataclysmic Gearhulk.
I had some time to trawl through Hareruya's Saheeli lists, which usually yields some fairly spicy ideas, and it didn't disappoint. I found Hero of Bladehold in this list, has anyone tried her? I'm locating a copy to try and it seems super promising. turn 2 Saheeli into turn 3 hero results in a 3/4 blocker, 7 damage coming at the opponent and 2 1/1s hanging around next turn to smack for 9 damage on the following turn.
Cheers mates, updated my list. Bolt and anafenza really weren't pulling their weight, so they made way for stonies and Eidolons. Cutting evo makes sense in a grindy meta now I think about it, despite its amazingly high ceiling.
Do we think shalai will find her home maindeck or side? I feel like a lot of combo decks simply can't deal with her game 1
Hi all, was hoping for some critique on my list. I've been a long time lurker who hasn't really posted much, but I've been consistently impressed with the quality of discussion and cooperation in this thread, and I've been incorporating and testing ideas from here to great success.
Was hoping for mainly advice on my curve relating to Evos, it feels pretty smooth but I was wondering if there was more I could get out of it. I play in a city that seems to really favor grindy decks so creatures that require two pieces of removal are at a premium here. I find a lot of my games are won through combo, though usually after draining my opponent's resources with repeated value plays. I would also love some advice on the manabase, now that I no longer run Glorybringer I'm considering dropping the grove, though unsure what I should replace it with. I've been reading the debate surrounding rallier and my feelings are somewhat mixed - its usually a terrible topdeck but the explosiveness early can scare the opponent into interacting with me instead of furthering their plans, which is where I feel this deck wants to be. I feel like Anafenza in the sideboard is too cute, she hasn't come in much and has felt clunky when she has, though her ceiling is pretty high. If anything else sticks out feel free to tell me it looks odd.
I'm very excited for Shalai, I think she will find a spot somewhere in my 75, though I can't help but think Muldrotha, the Gravetide would be an amazing curve topper to this deck instead of sun titan. Evo'ing into her lategame could provide any number of sick value plays with oaths, ralliers and fetches and so on (you can play lands with her too!) or just recurring and cracking a canopy every turn isn't terrible, or even recasting saheeli straight from the yard. She dodges a lot of removal too.
I would be happier trying bloodbraid in the deck than Jace - whilst we would never want to evo into it, it's a good evo target to get Sun titan, and it's just good value by itself even if you cascade into evo (can't sac bloodbraid like this but anything else in play is fair game)
I'm running a fairly similar list here that I've been having some success with, I've shaken it up a bit recently so it's not perfect (1 blessed in main feels weird, might drop it for a 4th hussar.)
Now my meta is incredibly diverse and I don't see burn too often, but Lone missionary usually doesn't do it for me in jeskai and I'd cut it to 2 of maybe.
Also consider that you have 12 flicker effects (cat. Wisp, Saheeli) and it's worth trimming the numbers on them unless you want to be stuck with a lot of flicker effects and no payoff (it won't always happen, but it feels bad when it does).
The deck now has a quick combo Wincon and doesn't always need to grind - for this reason you can drop to 2 emerias - in the drawn out games where you need it, you will find it.
Finally, court hussar is an excellent card in UW and even better in Jeskai - it lets us dig for combo pieces! They make the deck much more consistent in my opinion.
I took a slightly different list (a couple different sideboard cards) to a cash tournament where I knew what the other 15 were playing and ended up 5th/16, report here:
Round 1: burn
Game 1:
I was on the draw. I thought this guy was on skred so I took a slower hand. Got destroyed by lightning bolts, lava spikes and a grim lavamancer, got Saheeli bolted mid combo fizzling my attempts to go off.
Games 2 & 3 involved muliganing for SB Leylines, and a combination of walls, Lone missionaries and removal kept my life total out of the red zone until I could combo off.
Round 2: storm
Game 1:
I was on the draw. Pathed his electromancers and barals which felt bad because I was giving him mana. He eventually stormed off and the single negate in my hand could not do much.
Game 2:
Muliganed to 6 for a Leyline again, felt good keeping a hand with Leyline, Saheeli, guardian and 2 lands. Turn 3 I got a Saheeli down however on turn 4 it died to electromancer beats when I didn't make a 4th land drop for my guardian. An echoing truth dealt with my Leyline and the storm player took the round 2-0.
Round 3: Bogles
Game 1:
I was on the play. We both Muliganed to 6. An early spreading seas slowed the bogles player down a bit and a turn 4 Supreme verdict dealt with a suited up Bogle. He didn't see any other creatures after that and I combo'd off pretty easily.
Game 2:
Bogles player took another Muligan and I kept my 7 because it had a blessed alliance, spreading seas, Saheeli, 3 lands and a verdict. He dropped a fairly suited up Bogle but a turn 3 blessed alliance dealt with it. He then dropped another Bogle and a kor spiritwalker, but the lack of totem armor meant that Supreme verdict cleared the board and he didnt see any more creatures. After that I drew into a flickerwisp with Saheeli on board, and closed out the game with wisp beats copied by Saheeli.
Round 4: Esper control
Game 1: I was on the draw. Acombination of disruption of my combo and a secure the wastes for 5 ended this game pretty quick in my opponents favour.
Game 2: my opponent took a Muligan while I had a hand with Saheeli and Felidar. Curved the combo out and the esper player had no answer.
Game 3: this was really long and drawn out, I got the Saheelis to stick, however my Felidars and sun titans ate paths, and was able to dig pretty hard by copying court hussars and the like. Constant pinging by saheeli brought the esper player to 1 life before we drew, however I noticed too late if I had copied wall to draw on the final turn instead of scry and ping, I would have hit a Bolt and ended it.
Overall I went 2-1-1
I've been considering bolts vs paths for removal - some of our bad matchups (elves, storm) would much prefer to have their creatures eat paths than bolts
Also, what do people think of devout lightcaster? Seems like a perfect sideboard card for us against Deaths shadow.
On another note I'm toying around with Saheelis and a single guardian in mainboard. On paper they seem great but in reality half the time you end up with 8 flicker effects and nothing to flicker for value. This problem gets even worse when you add in more Felidar guardians.
How have other people been finding it? I am considering returning to UW emeria and ditching the Saheelis.
Has anybody considered the new card approach of the second sun as a one of? Am finding that my list has plenty of ways to slow the game to a crawl and grind out value, but not always something that will win me the game at any reasonable speed.
With the excessive card draw/filtering this deck can get lategame you could have AOTSS back in your hand in 2 turns easily I'd think.
Hi guys, I'm interested in people's opinions on the above scenario. A friend and I were discussing this and agreed it's a fairly tough pick. What would you take, and why? (assuming those are the 2 best cards in the pack by far).
I have been playing 6 dork/2 cobra and have been liking it, but there has been discussion about the full 8 dorks to improve opening hands, which sounds like a good direction to be going.
With the amount of dorks we play moon is quite manageable - especially if we are dropping it on our own turns. the lists have 6-10 nonland sources of mana, can run anywhere from 3-5 basics, and with the help of oath of nissa we can cast saheeli for RRR. Certainly a potent sideboard card that doesn't hurt the deck much.
1 Felidar leaves you way too susceptible to a single path to exile ruining your chances of combo, most people are running 2-3, with some lists running the full 4.
My List
Round 1:
2-1, Played a friend of mine from Brisbane on Temur eternal command.
Game 1:
he spun his wheels pretty hard while I set up with finks/rhino/voice. He found a late vial and resolved a goyf but it wasn't enough to keep the team from hitting for lethal.
Game 2:
he told me afterwards he has half his bolts in the side, and I really felt the difference this game. Got bolted off dorks turn 1 and 2, then a chain of cryptic > vialed in snap > cryptic stranded me unable to resolve anything meaningful.
Game 3:
He hasn't actually seen the combo at this point, and thinks I'm on some kind of Abzan value list. I play the same as game 1, he doesn't hit a vial but hits his early goyfs and cryptics, I grind him out of answers before I unexpectedly combo him.
Round 2: Mardu pyromancer, 2-0
Game 1:
I resolve a siege rhino and evo for the other, copying 1 next turn with a topdecked saheeli for the concession.
Game 2:
I resolve a t2 pridemage into his t3 moon. The pridemage ended up dealing exactly 12 damage to him, as he fails to cast anything for 4 turns. he has access to BBR, I wonder what could possibly be in his hand, until I'm prompted to blow up the moon in response to a fatal push, I found out as he casts and flashbacks 3 souls over the course of the next 3 turns. he was at 5 at this point (3 from fetch shock, 12 from qasali), and things were looking grim for me, facing down 6 or so spirits, until he double fetched to 3 and let a siege rhino finish the game.
Round 3: Lantern, 2-0
Game 1:
he fails to find a bridge, or assemble a meaningful topdeck lock, and voice/unrevolted vengeful rebel beats seal game 1.
Game 2:
My opponent was running some spicy tech - he resolved a thopter foundry early on and was chumping my dudes until I evo'd for the rhino, trample was super relevant here.
My takeaway from the tournament, and the weekend, was that we can hide the combo fairly easily game 1, and it makes our opponents make drastically different sideboard choices, as both the lantern and Temur player didn't know about the combo until at least game 2.
Siege rhino was a total MVP, drew him heaps and he put in work.
I also played against a lot of bogles, and got taken to town by them, I could never really work myself into a position to drop Saheeli safely or blow them out with Cataclysmic Gearhulk.
I had some time to trawl through Hareruya's Saheeli lists, which usually yields some fairly spicy ideas, and it didn't disappoint. I found Hero of Bladehold in this list, has anyone tried her? I'm locating a copy to try and it seems super promising. turn 2 Saheeli into turn 3 hero results in a 3/4 blocker, 7 damage coming at the opponent and 2 1/1s hanging around next turn to smack for 9 damage on the following turn.
EDIT: Formatting, clarity
Do we think shalai will find her home maindeck or side? I feel like a lot of combo decks simply can't deal with her game 1
Here's The List
Was hoping for mainly advice on my curve relating to Evos, it feels pretty smooth but I was wondering if there was more I could get out of it. I play in a city that seems to really favor grindy decks so creatures that require two pieces of removal are at a premium here. I find a lot of my games are won through combo, though usually after draining my opponent's resources with repeated value plays. I would also love some advice on the manabase, now that I no longer run Glorybringer I'm considering dropping the grove, though unsure what I should replace it with. I've been reading the debate surrounding rallier and my feelings are somewhat mixed - its usually a terrible topdeck but the explosiveness early can scare the opponent into interacting with me instead of furthering their plans, which is where I feel this deck wants to be. I feel like Anafenza in the sideboard is too cute, she hasn't come in much and has felt clunky when she has, though her ceiling is pretty high. If anything else sticks out feel free to tell me it looks odd.
I'm very excited for Shalai, I think she will find a spot somewhere in my 75, though I can't help but think Muldrotha, the Gravetide would be an amazing curve topper to this deck instead of sun titan. Evo'ing into her lategame could provide any number of sick value plays with oaths, ralliers and fetches and so on (you can play lands with her too!) or just recurring and cracking a canopy every turn isn't terrible, or even recasting saheeli straight from the yard. She dodges a lot of removal too.
Thanks for listening!
Now my meta is incredibly diverse and I don't see burn too often, but Lone missionary usually doesn't do it for me in jeskai and I'd cut it to 2 of maybe.
Also consider that you have 12 flicker effects (cat. Wisp, Saheeli) and it's worth trimming the numbers on them unless you want to be stuck with a lot of flicker effects and no payoff (it won't always happen, but it feels bad when it does).
The deck now has a quick combo Wincon and doesn't always need to grind - for this reason you can drop to 2 emerias - in the drawn out games where you need it, you will find it.
Finally, court hussar is an excellent card in UW and even better in Jeskai - it lets us dig for combo pieces! They make the deck much more consistent in my opinion.
I took a slightly different list (a couple different sideboard cards) to a cash tournament where I knew what the other 15 were playing and ended up 5th/16, report here:
Round 1: burn
Game 1:
I was on the draw. I thought this guy was on skred so I took a slower hand. Got destroyed by lightning bolts, lava spikes and a grim lavamancer, got Saheeli bolted mid combo fizzling my attempts to go off.
Games 2 & 3 involved muliganing for SB Leylines, and a combination of walls, Lone missionaries and removal kept my life total out of the red zone until I could combo off.
Round 2: storm
Game 1:
I was on the draw. Pathed his electromancers and barals which felt bad because I was giving him mana. He eventually stormed off and the single negate in my hand could not do much.
Game 2:
Muliganed to 6 for a Leyline again, felt good keeping a hand with Leyline, Saheeli, guardian and 2 lands. Turn 3 I got a Saheeli down however on turn 4 it died to electromancer beats when I didn't make a 4th land drop for my guardian. An echoing truth dealt with my Leyline and the storm player took the round 2-0.
Round 3: Bogles
Game 1:
I was on the play. We both Muliganed to 6. An early spreading seas slowed the bogles player down a bit and a turn 4 Supreme verdict dealt with a suited up Bogle. He didn't see any other creatures after that and I combo'd off pretty easily.
Game 2:
Bogles player took another Muligan and I kept my 7 because it had a blessed alliance, spreading seas, Saheeli, 3 lands and a verdict. He dropped a fairly suited up Bogle but a turn 3 blessed alliance dealt with it. He then dropped another Bogle and a kor spiritwalker, but the lack of totem armor meant that Supreme verdict cleared the board and he didnt see any more creatures. After that I drew into a flickerwisp with Saheeli on board, and closed out the game with wisp beats copied by Saheeli.
Round 4: Esper control
Game 1: I was on the draw. Acombination of disruption of my combo and a secure the wastes for 5 ended this game pretty quick in my opponents favour.
Game 2: my opponent took a Muligan while I had a hand with Saheeli and Felidar. Curved the combo out and the esper player had no answer.
Game 3: this was really long and drawn out, I got the Saheelis to stick, however my Felidars and sun titans ate paths, and was able to dig pretty hard by copying court hussars and the like. Constant pinging by saheeli brought the esper player to 1 life before we drew, however I noticed too late if I had copied wall to draw on the final turn instead of scry and ping, I would have hit a Bolt and ended it.
Overall I went 2-1-1
I've been considering bolts vs paths for removal - some of our bad matchups (elves, storm) would much prefer to have their creatures eat paths than bolts
Also, what do people think of devout lightcaster? Seems like a perfect sideboard card for us against Deaths shadow.
On another note I'm toying around with Saheelis and a single guardian in mainboard. On paper they seem great but in reality half the time you end up with 8 flicker effects and nothing to flicker for value. This problem gets even worse when you add in more Felidar guardians.
How have other people been finding it? I am considering returning to UW emeria and ditching the Saheelis.
With the excessive card draw/filtering this deck can get lategame you could have AOTSS back in your hand in 2 turns easily I'd think.
My list:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/emeria-modern/
Approach of the Second Sun:
http://www.mythicspoiler.com/akh/cards/approachofthesecondsun.html