hello guys , i would like to ask if thoughtseize is worth as 2 of in our sideboard
does the 2 life loss is too much that will ruin our combo as the life with the griselbrand is maths at is best or brutallity is enough to take the cards we dont need from our opponents hand ?
Generally Brutailty has much wider application (especially BUrn) and should take most of the things that you care about taking. Life loss is obviously very significant with how linear and proactive Modern is. I haven't encountered a matchup where THoughtseize specifically would be a matchup breaking card.
Has anyone considered Mox Amber in Grishoalbrand? I looked back in this thread and it doesn’t appear that anyone has brought it up as potential synergy with the deck.
Clearly it doesn’t do anything until we’re already starting to combo off and we have either Gris or Borbo in play, but once we start drawing cards with Gris every Mox Amber we hit is an extra B, R, or G potentially. I’m not sure what it would replace in the 60/75 but free mana, conditional or not, should always be looked at closely.
The argument is there that SSG is just better which it very well could be but I still think this card needs to be tested in this deck to see if it adds anything to our gameplan. Any thoughts on numbers? What it would replace?
I'm planning on maybe playing it as a one-of. As you said, SSG has infinitely more utility (grey ogre, Breaching ahead of schedule, mana during combo turn). I don't feel that start-up mana during combo turns is a constraint often enough for me so I'm not optimistic.
There is a hand I'm always on the edge about mulling or keeping. Do anyone keep one draw effct(faithless, night's whisper, and reunion) and +2/3 lands+not combo cards(vengeance, griselbrand, or breach)?
Assuming it is game 1 and you don't know what you are up against.
For me, I generally mull if the draw effect is not faithless.
I'm unclear on what the actual hand is, so if you could give us some examples that would help.
Generally speaking on the draw I'm less inclined to mulligan because discard to hand size is a real discard outlet. I'm assuming the "not combo cards" are rits and manamorphose and shoals (there aren't that many non land, non draw, non combo cards in the deck anyway). If a hand is like Whispers, 3 lands, shoal, shoal, ritual, then that's not keepable in my eyes.
What matchup are the Rabblemasters going to help in? Midrange/creature decks are still going to have those and brickwall the Rabblemaster. We are generally faster vs. combo and we have things to bring in already for those (leyline/moon/chalice/brutality). Vs. control we are already favored and have the pacts/brutality/chalice/moon package. I could be missing the point but Rabblemasters seem unnecessary.
FYI this is what I played on the weekend in the Modern Challenge. Deck still feels good. I tested Leylines to counteract the Jundy/Stormy online meta. I cut the blood moons because they are more substitutes in that they are for similar matchups. It's been a while since I played 0 chalice but it may be right given that matchups like GDS and Lantern are dwindling. Not sure if that's right. I still like Grave Titan. Got to cast it vs. Logan Nettle's UB midrange and it won the game by itself (probably would've won the game by itself Breached as well. hastey 6/6 that leaves 8 power is pretty cool). I feel like I'm skimping too much for control matchups, as both Blood Moon and Chalice both were good vs. UWx, whereas Leyline does nothing in that matchup. May add a third Pact, or leave in a single chalice, or something. Still a work in progress in the new BBE/Jace world but I feel good about the archetype thus far.
7-4 ain't bad, but it seems like you are going through some variance period. sorry to hear FCG.
You said this is the first time you've lost to humans. how bad do you think that matchup is? I personally think it's definitively bad and I'd expect to be at least 35/65. Maybe I'm doing something wrong
1. Discard breach and bontu
2. If they attack with overseer, ambush it with vengeance
3 If they pump with overseer then take 3 psn counter and go to your turn to flashback faithless looting to search for a land or griselbrand. Since they pumped, next turn they will have lethal on both overseer and blinkmoth. I think they would attack with both then you can vengeance your borb to ambush the overseer and hopefully get a land of of the 3 draws(faithless+draw step) to shoot down inkmoth.
4. Then go for breach onto wurm and try to kill in 3 turns.
I think this is the right play here. Be defensive with your borborygmos and try to clear the way for a multi turn Wurm win
For Jund add some leylines or blood moons, whichever you have. then bontu's. cut some fast mana and looting
Abrade seems OK but I really want my SB cards to be haymakers. I'd rather play lightning axe as a hatebear killer/discard outlet and shattering spree/EE/Shatterstorm
Chalice is meta dependent. YOu are right shadows and lantern and friends seem to be declining. I'm testing a non-chalice list today.
I wrote my second piece for Manadeprived, delving into some matchup info as well as a few tips and tricks that may not be intuitive to people picking up the deck for the first time. Let me know if you have any questions/comments and I'll be happy to respond. Cheers
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount. Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
How detrimental does this feel to you guys? Obviously does very little vs the extremely fast hands, but is brutal if we go off later on. Maybe we'll need to run the 3rd Shattering Spree, or maybe some number of Abrade?
Welcome!
My first guess is that it'll be a minor hindrance. It's likely that these will be played by the fair decks that have bad matchups against us anyways, so I'm not too worried about it yet. Just another hate piece like Cage, except it's easier to beat than Cage. We could always just do our things on their End Step and pay a mana or two to cast shoals, and finish in one swift step on our turn.
Hi everybody,
I'm planning on dusting off Grishoalbrand for a tournament this weekend, and I was wondering what everybody's opinions are on the sideboard for the post-unban meta.
My initial thoughts is that maybe Chalice isn't as good as it was before (with DS on the decline). Lots of midrange decks don't care all that much about Chalice, right?
Also, is Blood Moon good now? Yes, there are a lot of greedy manabases, but it seems that people are ready for it. And we don't really need them against big mana.
If that's the case, it opens up a ton of sideboard slots we could be using for our worst matchups. Any thoughts?
Agree on chalice. if grixis shadows, lantern et al have truly declined i can even see us going to Leyline of Sanctity to combat BBE and friends. Leylines and Blood Moons come in in roughly the same types of matchups. You could use the chalice slots to streamline the maindeck (move brutality and/or lightning axe to the sideboard and add Reunion/Ritual). You could also add something like a Grave Titan which is not a GY dependent WC, still good with Breach, hardcastable, and can win the game on its own. I'm planning to do both.
good to see you here man:) great point about brutality drain bringing them within Wurm>TKS range. we still won't be able to beat a TKS on Wurm but squeezing out nonzero percentage points by giving the opponent rope to make a mistake is good.
Yea, one of the skills pilots will need to pick up (perhaps through some painful lessons during fizzled turns and lost games - I've been there and I'm sure we all have) is knowing when to stop. Drawing cards in 7s is fun, but sometimes sculpting an unbeatable hand for the next turn is enough.
It looks like the remaining two cards are Manamorphose and Borborygmos Enraged. Do you not have shattering sprees in?
Anyway, I think the relevant question to ask is can you beat a TKS next turn? Given that you've milled yourself to 2, I'm not sure what the answer is.
If you manamorphose, you win 50% of the times If it's a Shoal, you win by Shoal pitch Wurm splice Breach into Borborygmos. If you hit your Borborygmos, I would move to discard and keep SSG, Breach, Breach, Breach, Wurm, Griselbrand, Land. However,if they slam temple into TKS you are locked out if they take the Griselbrand, as neither a Wurm or Borborygmos is lethal in one shot and the TKS death trigger will mill you out.
If you just pass here and discard to something like: land, SSG, Breach, Breach, Griselbrand, Wurm, land. You don't have a way to ensure you have 3 griselbrands, a breach next turn, and a second breach the turn after. If you keep the hand that I outlined above and the opponent slams a TKS, they woudl smartly take the griselbrand and block the Wurm. We would be dead from the TKS death trigger since that would draw us the last card and we don't have any way to deal the last 2 points of damage.
Therefore, I think we just take our chances and manamorphose to try and hit the 50% guaranteed kill. If not, I would discard and keep: ritual, land, breach, breach, Wurm, x x. We are still dead to TKS with this line, but we've established that we are dead to TKS in all the other lines. I could be missing a piece in this puzzle though, but this seems correct. And the answer is pretty counterintuitive too, as I was inclined to just pass.
Last piece: I am not sure what your draw order was, but I'd be inclined to believe that you drew too many cards here. I would always try to evaluate what's the best turn that the opponent could have next turn, and if we can still beat that turn, I would be more inclined to slow down and pass. I would be inclined to believe that somewhere down the line, we could've sculpted a hand with two fast mana, land, two breach, and two wurm (unclear if you had two wurms left, but quite possible since you are at 11 life and therefore you had life to spare). WIth that hand, the opponent cannot beat us save for a surgical extraction on Breach, but we are not beating that line anyway without a shattering spree.
Generally Brutailty has much wider application (especially BUrn) and should take most of the things that you care about taking. Life loss is obviously very significant with how linear and proactive Modern is. I haven't encountered a matchup where THoughtseize specifically would be a matchup breaking card.
I'm planning on maybe playing it as a one-of. As you said, SSG has infinitely more utility (grey ogre, Breaching ahead of schedule, mana during combo turn). I don't feel that start-up mana during combo turns is a constraint often enough for me so I'm not optimistic.
Generally speaking on the draw I'm less inclined to mulligan because discard to hand size is a real discard outlet. I'm assuming the "not combo cards" are rits and manamorphose and shoals (there aren't that many non land, non draw, non combo cards in the deck anyway). If a hand is like Whispers, 3 lands, shoal, shoal, ritual, then that's not keepable in my eyes.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/982238#online
You said this is the first time you've lost to humans. how bad do you think that matchup is? I personally think it's definitively bad and I'd expect to be at least 35/65. Maybe I'm doing something wrong
I think this is the right play here. Be defensive with your borborygmos and try to clear the way for a multi turn Wurm win
Abrade seems OK but I really want my SB cards to be haymakers. I'd rather play lightning axe as a hatebear killer/discard outlet and shattering spree/EE/Shatterstorm
Chalice is meta dependent. YOu are right shadows and lantern and friends seem to be declining. I'm testing a non-chalice list today.
http://manadeprived.com/grishoalbrand-primer-part-2-tips-matchup-and-sideboard-guide/
Welcome!
My first guess is that it'll be a minor hindrance. It's likely that these will be played by the fair decks that have bad matchups against us anyways, so I'm not too worried about it yet. Just another hate piece like Cage, except it's easier to beat than Cage. We could always just do our things on their End Step and pay a mana or two to cast shoals, and finish in one swift step on our turn.
Agree on chalice. if grixis shadows, lantern et al have truly declined i can even see us going to Leyline of Sanctity to combat BBE and friends. Leylines and Blood Moons come in in roughly the same types of matchups. You could use the chalice slots to streamline the maindeck (move brutality and/or lightning axe to the sideboard and add Reunion/Ritual). You could also add something like a Grave Titan which is not a GY dependent WC, still good with Breach, hardcastable, and can win the game on its own. I'm planning to do both.
Anyway, I think the relevant question to ask is can you beat a TKS next turn? Given that you've milled yourself to 2, I'm not sure what the answer is.
If you manamorphose, you win 50% of the times If it's a Shoal, you win by Shoal pitch Wurm splice Breach into Borborygmos. If you hit your Borborygmos, I would move to discard and keep SSG, Breach, Breach, Breach, Wurm, Griselbrand, Land. However,if they slam temple into TKS you are locked out if they take the Griselbrand, as neither a Wurm or Borborygmos is lethal in one shot and the TKS death trigger will mill you out.
If you just pass here and discard to something like: land, SSG, Breach, Breach, Griselbrand, Wurm, land. You don't have a way to ensure you have 3 griselbrands, a breach next turn, and a second breach the turn after. If you keep the hand that I outlined above and the opponent slams a TKS, they woudl smartly take the griselbrand and block the Wurm. We would be dead from the TKS death trigger since that would draw us the last card and we don't have any way to deal the last 2 points of damage.
Therefore, I think we just take our chances and manamorphose to try and hit the 50% guaranteed kill. If not, I would discard and keep: ritual, land, breach, breach, Wurm, x x. We are still dead to TKS with this line, but we've established that we are dead to TKS in all the other lines. I could be missing a piece in this puzzle though, but this seems correct. And the answer is pretty counterintuitive too, as I was inclined to just pass.
Last piece: I am not sure what your draw order was, but I'd be inclined to believe that you drew too many cards here. I would always try to evaluate what's the best turn that the opponent could have next turn, and if we can still beat that turn, I would be more inclined to slow down and pass. I would be inclined to believe that somewhere down the line, we could've sculpted a hand with two fast mana, land, two breach, and two wurm (unclear if you had two wurms left, but quite possible since you are at 11 life and therefore you had life to spare). WIth that hand, the opponent cannot beat us save for a surgical extraction on Breach, but we are not beating that line anyway without a shattering spree.