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Magic Market Index for June 8th, 2018
 
Ravnica: The Living Guildpact
 
Magic Market Index for June 1st, 2018
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from xenob8 »
    regarding the "go infinite" route i used to play emrakul with gaier reach sanitarium for that reason. shuffling everything back let me ultimating original jace twice easier (: instead of bouncing everything a single jace as a wincondition in infinite turns looks better imho!


    No reason why the infinite list cant do both. The Eye of Nowhere could easily be replaced with other cards and still have "bouncing all their permanents" be a thing that the deck just happens to do as it rips through turns. And the Delver of Secrets could be any pet win cons you like. Ive always been a fan of Jace Beleren and Thassa as win conditions because they both also help your card draw/quality.
    but Laboratory Maniac would work out just fine as well. The hypothetical list I posted at the top of the page could easily look more like:



    This version is light (perhaps too light) on early interaction with the added benefit of having way more inevitability once it starts comboing. And yes I think this version can find a way to squeeze in Emrakul if the pilot wants to, we certainly can get to 15 mana to hard cast her.


    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    I think the only color combo no one has really tried yet is the green splash. If I owned any Noble Hierarch I would at least test the Rites of Flourishing version. Possibly with cards like Farseek, Coiling Oracle, Eternal Witness. And backed up by things like Obstinate Baloth, Pulse of Murasa, and Fog from the side.

    The nuts would be:
    Turn One: Land Drop, Noble Hierarch.
    Turn Two: Land Drop, Rites of Flourishing, Land Drop (possibly cast another 1 drop)
    Turn three:Land Drop, Land Drop, Time warp with dispel/spell pierce backup, or 6 drop turn spell, or exhaustion + a second engine.


    The potential to go to combotown before your opponent has any hope of reducing your life total by 20 points really makes this build appealing. But those hands where your Noble Hierarch or Bird of Paradise get bolted/pathed/pushed before you can do anything will suck. Letting them have a second land drop per turn is also particularly dangerous, and makes exhaustion much worse. But Rites of flourishing could make Savor the moment playable.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from idSurge »
    Great question. For me, any deck worth bringing in hate for, knows about it, plans for it, and many are main decking answers for that hate. For me, and the fact you cannot 'hate' on low to the ground aggro, the swing cards are Fatal Push, Collective Brutality, and IoK/Thoughtseize. They do just enough, without getting blown out by a Natures Claim or something, to get us there.


    I always felt white did a pretty good job of providing options to stop fast aggro.

    Some are overperformers




    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Anyone ready to share their GP Vegas lists? I am planning on trying a black or white splash this summer after playing mono-U for 2 years, so looking for any feedback.


    I have been running the White splash for about 2 1/2 years. For the many, many reasons why and lists of sideboard options review my older posts. The Uw version packs the best sideboard hate in modern, thats why I keep my splash. When I test monoblue I feel like its slightly more efficient but far less potent.

    I will say the Ub version has the option to pack more mainboard interaction (like Collective Brutality) and has more proactive options (like Thoughtsieze) it can bring in from the side. And yes, it can also produce a respectively powerful sideboard. The real question is weather you prefer a more proactive or preventative style of play, and which has the edge in the current meta?
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from mapccu »
    Furthermore, it won't loop with a RIP in play.


    Yes when I mentioned going infinite I also mentioned going bounce heavy. This would keep problem permanents like Rest in Peace and Stony Silence off the table. Plus those hands where your busy digging for a win con can often be won due to oppressive board state. Back when I was testing non-infinite bounce heavy turns, most people scooped on turn 7 when I cast a time warp and then bounced their last (or second to last) land. Truly infinite turns might look a bit more like this.



    This list probably needs 1-2 more engines.

    The curve I ended up with (a glut of 2 mana spells), pushed me toward choosing Delver as a win con. Back when I tested delver (in non infinite turns) I found that the first one often ate a Bolt/Path/Push and the second one handed them lethal. When you come up across a removal heavy deck you can be glad that (unless all of their answers are Path to Exile or he gets Surgicalled) then you can confidently still kill them with your 12th delver if that is how many its going to take. Plus in a deck that might take 10+ minutes to win some hands, its important to have at least one of your win cons able to take the game over quickly (time-wise). But honestly one could choose just about any 3-4 win cons they want, most ideally several different singletons that win from different angles. Also since we are going infinite and planning on reshuffling several times, we may want to include the big daddy game ender since his automatic reshuffle acts as mill protection.



    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from zcowan »
    I like remand a lot but it also is starting to feel like a dead card again though... I have been playing a lot of matches against mardu pyromancer in my area lately and remand does nothing to stop them because all of their spells are one mana so you really can't set them back in the way countering a collected company or planes walker does.


    I definitely side remand out against ultra low curve decks. (Robots, Burn, Jund Shadow, ect). But its the closest we have to a straight up Two-mana Time Warp so I keep it in my main. And I do have a piece of advice that I hope will help you a little bit with Mardu Pyroamncer. Gigadrowse is your best one-mana Time Warp, and against two mana decks (Scapeshift, Storm, and Mardu Pyro), it is absolutely correct to use it right away to keep their two mana spell stuck in their hand on the second turn. It sets them back a turn which effectively buys you a free turn. I have compared it to: When they shoot the pistol to start a race, and you reach out to the guy next to you and push him backwards as you launch yourself off the starting line.

    Similar results can be found when your on the play and you bounce their only land.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from zcowan »
    Quote from Shweepsh »
    I don't believe that Karn solves any problems that the deck may have. He simply leads to a different version of the deck, one in which I doubt would be an improvement. The UR-Chandra version has always appealed to me, but I don't consider it better or more consistent than my UW version; thus, I have never considered acquiring the cards a worthy use of time & resources. At least Jace makes an immediate impact by either digging three cards deep or delaying their largest threat. Any chance that an artifact-Karn version could accelerate in order to combo sooner, like the BANT version?

    Thank you Xenob8! Welcome back Purklefluff! I've been waiting to hear your conclusions from testing your UR(splash) with 2x Pyroclasm in the side board. Because of the rising popularity of Humans, I imagine it has a lot of promise. If you would rather save your thoughts for the Primer, then by all means, I will wait. I look forward to some updates.

    Since tuning, my UW version has performed well at FNM. I only lose to fast red decks (burn and goblins). Although, I have yet to be paired against Jund. Has anyone tested with Sphere of Safety?


    Could you do me a favor and post your UW build??


    I have also been having good fortune with the UW version for about 2 years now. This is what I took to FNM last friday. I took 1st and went undefeated after not playing the deck at all for the last 4 months(very busy semester). The sideboard is four months out of date and after seeing lots of hollow one and instant reanimator around my local meta, I will likely go up to 3 Rest in Peace or look at adding Grafdigger's Cage. I have tested many versions of this deck and have settled on the lowest curve possible which still maximizes interaction, and can still take over the game come turn 5. I have been strongly advocating having a white sideboard because of the high quality of hate it brings to the table.





    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Nexus of Fate does seem to open up new win cons. Having fewer Turns spells that exile and more that stay in your deck would let a pair of Elixir of Immortality take us us truly infinite. Once there we can win off of our choice of singleton win cons. Or they could just scoop to oppressive board state if we start bouncing their permanents while we patiently dig for win cons. Overall, not a bad route to go down, if a little more troll than some of our usual win cons.

    I should also point our we were given a very powerful tool against Burn and Aggro in Fountain of Renewal. It may prove to be a situatioinal upgrade from sun droplet. I certainly do like that it only costs 1.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from MoosehBoy »

    I don't think it can replace a Mine effect, but it works well as a 'half-Mine-half-land'.


    I have been against Search for Azcanta as a card for our deck. Back when it was new and we were all discussing it, I had trouble finding a good card for comparison. The best I came up with was comparing it to a ramp spell (Rampant Growth, or mana rock (Talisman of Progress). Its ability to ramp us a turn ahead is good for us. But the activation cost on its Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin side, costs 4 effective mana.

    I can't get behind such a large mana expenditure just to draw a card. My major problem with the Sunken Ruin activation is that I believe it is definitely win-more. When comboing; we rarely have that much extra mana. If we do have that much extra mana, it is usually because we stumble and are unable to continue to keep casting Warps. But these are the same turns we will be spending our mana on Pseudo-Turns. Cryptic Command and Gigadrowse both do a great job of keeping us alive through these stumbles. I don't see us having 4 extra mana(very often) during these turns either.

    Yes I realize its going to be the best card out of 4, but when I compare it to an actual Mine effect it comes up short. I do think the correct line of thought is to treat it as anything but a mine effect. And so because of this, cutting a land for it is probably a correct choice. Don't get me wrong, drawing more cards is very good for us, but having to spend mana to dig for the correct card is quite bad. I would rather have just "have it" than have to "dig for it"

    I would honestly just rather run Farseek.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from paintcops »
    Quote from Tanarax »

    Turns is very match up dependent. Some days you feel untouchable, and some days the planets all line up.... not in your favor. So don't let one bad tourney ruin your perception of the deck. On average (over many, many hands), Turns is better than the average tournament deck (beats most teir 1 and teir 2 decks 50% of the time or better), but this doesn't make it so every hand is a winner. Indeed, two FNM's ago I went 9-2 by hands and the following week I went 1-7. Variance happens, and there is nothing you can do about it except ensure your deck is thoroughly randomized and keep your fingers crossed that they don't draw pure jetfuel off the top of their library.

    As far as the splash is concerned. When I first picked up this deck a couple of years ago I tried monoblue first. It is slightly more efficient than using the splash. For the most part splashing doesn't hurt, but every once in a while I have had to lay a turn one Glacial Fortress into turn 2 Glacial Fortress (feels pretty bad). I have been on the white splash for more than a year now and I still have to advocate for it. For the most part, I keep my mainboard blue and bring an almost all white sideboard (during pump infect winter last year I was packing 2 Angelsong in the main to great effect).



    Thank you mate. Really nice words and thoughts. You are right, I had really good results testing so I can't lose hope because of a single tournament. I will give another chance to the deck. I can't see myself playing another deck, its the one I enjoy most playing and after all I got some skills with it.

    I was wondering if you could post the decklist you use. I know nothing about the manabase for splashes in turns, and the decklists I found are not really serious or consistent. Thank you again.


    This is my stock list. If you scroll up to post #1519 you will see what I have been testing more recently. honestly it changes constantly. Since Timewalkinonsunshine brought it up I should point out that I have a couple of factors pushing me into this current mana base.

    1) I sometimes NEED white mana as early as turn 2 (for things like Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, or even meddling mage). Eventually through testing I found that 11 white got me there often enough (although the math points more toward 13 white being ideal, im happy with 11).
    https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/
    2) And I cannot afford for any of my mid-game lands to enter tapped (so eventually I decided no Celestial Colonnade or Temples).

    I have been using the below land base since last Februrary (upgraded from darksteel citadel to cataracts). So I think I am in a happy middle ground where I am not too weak to blood moon(9 basics still). Game one(since I am just blue in the main), I fetch into basics. They see me fetch into basic islands, then cast a whole slew of blue spells and they usually take out their blood moons realizing its not very likely to cripple me.





    The sideboard changes constantly. But this is the core I start from before I start substituting in cards to test.



    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from paintcops »
    Quote from purklefluff »
    Just watching the GP coverage and the top of the field is incredibly soft to turns it's boggling my mind.

    Time to break out the gigadrowses


    Yep, that was in Oklahoma but Madrid was a real hell for our deck. Or at least for me. I made a nice and clean 0-6 drop (the team did 1-5 drop).

    My pairings: affinity, 8rack, storm, burn, affinity and eldrazi tron. I don't know how I lost against EldraziTron (1-2), but it happens sometimes. The rest of the games I couldnt really do anything. Burn and affinity were just me watching how they win. 8rack left me without hand in turn 3 both of the games. I lost 1-2 against Storm because he comboed me after a upkeep gigadrowse that left him with no lands but managed to combo with 2 Simian spirit guide.

    It was really frustrating. After that I won a side event so it was less frustrating. But I keep thinking what should I do. Maybe change the deck, maybe not. And after this couple of days thinking about it I decided to try a splash.

    What do you guys think about our deck and its situation? And does a splash improve much our deck?


    Turns is very match up dependent. Some days you feel untouchable, and some days the planets all line up.... not in your favor. So don't let one bad tourney ruin your perception of the deck. On average (over many, many hands), Turns is better than the average tournament deck (beats most teir 1 and teir 2 decks 50% of the time or better), but this doesn't make it so every hand is a winner. Indeed, two FNM's ago I went 9-2 by hands and the following week I went 1-7. Variance happens, and there is nothing you can do about it except ensure your deck is thoroughly randomized and keep your fingers crossed that they don't draw pure jetfuel off the top of their library.

    As far as the splash is concerned. When I first picked up this deck a couple of years ago I tried monoblue first. It is slightly more efficient than using the splash. For the most part splashing doesn't hurt, but every once in a while I have had to lay a turn one Glacial Fortress into turn 2 Glacial Fortress (feels pretty bad). I have been on the white splash for more than a year now and I still have to advocate for it. For the most part, I keep my mainboard blue and bring an almost all white sideboard (during pump infect winter last year I was packing 2 Angelsong in the main to great effect).

    It would be too long of a list for me to point out all of the good white sideboard hate for us but i have tested many options and here is a short list of reasons to splash white.


    Leyline of Sanctity
    Stony Silence
    Rest in Peace
    Timely Reinforcements
    Supreme Verdict
    Blessed Alliance
    Path to Exile
    Angel's Grace
    Riot Control
    Pollen Lullaby
    Porphyry Nodes
    Meddling Mage
    Gideon's Intervention
    Geist of Saint Traft
    Ghostly Prison
    Kataki, War's Wage
    Myth Realized

    Don't get me wrong the monoblue version is slightly more consistent. But I think the raw power of cards like Supreme Verdict and Stony Silence outweight the drawbacks of having to run fetches and Glacial Fortress.

    Other splashes will also give you many good playables but I only really have experience with the white splash. The black splash is tempting, but I don't own Damnations so I haven't tested it yet.


    P.S. It looks like most of the bad matchups you described (affinity, 8rack, storm, affinity and eldrazi tron) can all be curbstomped with either Leyline of Sanctity and/or Supreme Verdict. If you notice I left burn out, so far our best answers are Timely Reinforcements or Riot Control (Rest for the Weary even?).
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from herkamurjones »
    I'm just not sure how to modify the standard 22-23 land, 11 warp, 7-10 pseudo warp, 7-8 cantrip, 7-8 mine build.


    If you are going to go down this line of thought then the first thing I would do is cut my non-Serum Vision cantrips. Opt or Sleight of Hand can easily get pulled out for Quickens if you just interested in testing the concept. Plus I wouldn't want to go all in on 1-mana spells. Getting blown out by a chalice on X=1 is never fun so keep your 1-mana spell count to 8 or less. I would not cut serum visions from my main just to test Quicken. If you don't already run Opt then cutting a little bit from everywhere else seems reasonable, since its a cantrip.

    P.S. I would imagine casting a Quicken into an end-of-turn Serum Visions would also feel pretty good. Draw 2 cards then scry 2, then untap and draw again.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from 1Rey »

    Could you post your list?


    Currently I have been testing this miracles-less version but historically my stock lists have been +4 Temporal Mastery, – 2 Snapcaster Mage, -1 Exhaustion, and -1 Part the Waterveil.



    And yes my sideboard changes constantly. Ask me again in a couple weeks it will likely be different somehow as I adapt to my local meta.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from hinterweltler »
    There is a Card that solves any CA-problems and works best in this Deck - Day's Undoing. I play 1 Main, 2 SB and still try to find space for the 4th.
    This one also improves Mulligans a lot lol


    It is not card advantage if you give your opponent 7 cards and a turn as well.


    I was originally against days undoing. It does give them a fresh hand of 7 cards. But a few months ago I swapped out a Howling Mine out for it and as a singleton it has shone quite well. It is a silver bullet against decks like Lantern control, but id rather run Elixer if burn goes back up in popularity. I do like that if it gets milled I can usually Snapcaster it anyways.

    It has it drawbacks but remember it also gives us a fresh hand of 7 cards. And we can usually exploit that really well. It is pretty clear that once we get to 8 mana and can start Warping and casting Days in the same turn, it very quickly become the card that guarantees victory. Not so much a win more card but a "I will find my win con right now" button.

    I have gone up to 4 Exhaustions. These are the cards which will help us cast Days Undoing in a very one sided and asymmetrical way. On turn 6, hitting them with an Exhaution and then following it up with a Days has always meant the end of the game(so far). The fresh grip of 7 has gotten me there every time I have been able to cast it with exhaustion. But I have also had some success with casting it blindly with 7 mana up hoping that in my new 7 is a Cryptic. This has worked out sometimes, but often I just spend the 4 remaining mana on holding up remand or Gigadrowsing down their board. So far casting it blindly on turn 7 has worked out for the better.

    I have been having such good results with it, I am thinking about adding 2 or 3 Quicken into my 60, and going up to 2 Days Undoing. Being able to cast it during their endstep looks very tempting. Plus the side benefit of being able to quicken Exhaustions sound too good to be true. But I have yet to test this build out, but I have heard it taunting me to try it.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    I was already thinking about Shadow of Doubt as an option, but Squelch might be better positioned to also hit other things beside fetches.

    I agree that Eye of Nowhere is a bit one dimensional since it is stuck at sorcery speed, but I would still like to find a third two mana bounce option. That way I can run the full 10-11 that the math tells me I should. I need to spend some time on the gatherer.

    Thank you and keep the suggestions coming.
    Posted in: Combo
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