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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from szuweq »
    Hi, i'm playing turn form january 2018 current UR with 3bolt and 1pyroclasm MB. Anyone try:

    a)Quicksilver Fountain - it should be good vs Tron, Junk, Jund, Valakut etc.
    b)Storage Matrix - good vs deck going wide, but need mana Mardu, Tribal etc.
    c) Torpor Orb- stop Humans, Dredge, Elves, snapcaster deck etc.
    ?


    A) wow, that looks like it may really help us if we can land it early. Thank you for bringing it up, now that I know it exists... I will likely test it out online one day.

    B) I have already discussed this card with several of my local players, and it looks like it might eventually find a home in our 75. It wont really affect us until the very late game when we go to swing in for lethal, and by then we should easily be able to bounce our own Matrix. I have never gotten around to testing it but its probably worth a couple hours of someones time.

    C) Back when modern was "new" (5-7 years ago) and Birthing Pod was a thing (20-35% of the meta), Torpor Orb was a must have. I'm not sure if enough of the current meta relies on ETB triggers to justify its use. But it will always be an available option, and should be brought up periodically to keep in mind as an option.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from zcowan »
    I can totally see Thing in the Ice playing nicely (although I will admit I was hoping for your feedback on Monastery Mentor because I love that card and really want to run it haha)

    If you want to run Thing in the Ice more efficiently though I would recommend you run more cantrips (1-2 opts) as well as keep the path and find cuts somewhere else.. I ran him mainboard for a while and found that the best way to get the most value out of him was by being able to cantrip multiple turns so that he was almost guaranteed to flip on turn 5 when we start to combo.. I could see cutting Day's Undoing. I understand it's purpose in the As Foretold build however I ran that card for a very long time before realizing that there are very few times you will need to reset your deck.

    Hope this helps! Smile



    EDIT: Also,
    What are your opinions regarding switching Remand for Spreading Seas?
    Currently I am running 3x Remand mainboard.. I like the card in some matchups but I feel like it doesn't have the same consistency as cutting someone off of their colors in addition to using gigadrowse to deny them the rest of their mana..



    I run Thing in the Ice with no cantrips and feel it is plenty powerful just flipping at its own pace. No tricks, no bending over backwards to force it to flip early. I tested up to 7 cantrips at once and have cut down to nothing to fit in more "action" and "early interaction". Cutting all the cantrips lets me go up in Engines (small bonus) and more importantly lets me run 4 Gigadrowse, 4 Remand, 4 Exhaustion, 4 Cryptic Commands, all of which buy me time while simultaneously helping Thing to flip at its own natural pace as we play out our hand.

    I run Days Undoing. Not so much because it reshuffles (although running the singleton has won me a disproportionate amount of hands against Lantern Control). The real benefit of the card is that it says "Draw 7 Cards", everything else is secondary. several times I have played out all my stall cards with no engines in play and have had to just cast it and pray I get something good in my new hand of 7. Usually when I am forced to play it this way, I end up with a Gigadrowse or Remand that I can use to help stop the new hand of 7 I just gave them, It is definitely a gamble but its does seem to get me there waaaay more than lose me the game. Ideally it gets cast on turn 8, with a Time Warp. When this happens its the nail in the coffin that draws me into win cons, more lands, more turns, ect... It has proven so effective that I have even pondered going up to 3 or 4 of them and adding 3 Quicken to the deck but have never tested it.

    I run 4 remand, and with Tron showing up more and more often(there are now regularly 3-4 tron decks at my local FNMs and they aren't being run by newbie chumps) I am convinced that for this coming Friday I should swap my 4 Remand for 4 Spreading Seas. I may even make space for some number of Seas Claim I could bring in from the side. Many moons ago I had excellent success running 8-Seas as a disruption package. Having your opponent not able to cast spells because all his lands are islands works O.K. against some decks, was useless against Fish(basically produced auto-losses for game 1), but silver bullet territory against many problem decks (Tron, Burn, Junk, Jund). After a couple of months I gave up on 8 seas and shifted to Spreading Seas main, and Seas Claim in the side. When the meta shifted away from Tron, and away form traditional Jund, and into Deaths Shadow decks I gave up the 8-Seas build, but now that Tron is dominant again...


    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from zcowan »
    So I just watched some matchups of KCI on youtube and from the looks of it, if you could Chalice on 1 it would slow them to a crawl long enough to combo or at least get a chalice on 2 which would then lock the game pretty much..

    My friend owns and plays the deck and it's already a favorable matchup before side boarding anyhow since all of their cards are cast at sorcery speed meaning our remand/gigadrowse are super strong


    There is no KCI in my local meta, but I run into it online sometimes. They (like burn and elves) really benefit from drawing the extra cards we give them, more so than many decks.

    I hate to be the broken record whose answers are all just the same white cards over and over, but KCI should have a pretty rough time playing through Stony Silence, Leyline of Sanctity and Rest In Peace.

    If your splashing red then I'd lean on Shatterstorm but By Force might also be viable.

    I dont think Hurkyl's Recallis as good beccause it will let them draw all those extra cards as they replay their hand next turn.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from zcowan »
    Hey Seba, hopefully you will see this..
    I was wondering why from the looks of your streams lately you run a split of Terminus, Settle the Wreckage, and Supreme Verdict? That's a lot of variety

    I do a 3-1 split of Terminus and Supreme Verdict.. just wondering what your thought process is on also having Settle the Wreckage

    Thanks!


    I would consider Settle the Wreckage to be very bad against every deck but Hollow One. Giving our opponents lands devalues our Gigadrowse. When it comes to boardwipes. I consider Supreme Verdict to be our best option. And I must honorable mention Porphyry Nodes. At only one mana, we can run it out early against aggro decks and it will either buy us a turn while they stop casting creatures, or play through it and watch it 5 for 1 them over the next several turns. But against the decks where it really matters (Fish or Elves) the Nodes ends up being just a little bit too slow most hands.

    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from Mot »
    Hi guys, is there any chance to play this deck without Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Snapcaster Mage? I know how powerful they are in this deck but I won't invest that much if it is necessary. I have a good card list base to mount this deck besides those two. If possible, may you give me a deck list without those cards?
    Quote from zcowan »
    Hey guys! So I just signed up for Starcity Worcester next weekend, was hoping to get some last minute opinions on my decklist I'll be bringing. I've been working on how I want to sideboard against certain matchups and I usually have difficulty figuring out what to trim/cut



    I imagine there will be a lot of Mardu Pyromancer, KCI, and Humans there since they are kind of the top decks of the format currently.. That formed most of my decision with the sideboard (I think the Chalice are very strong against Mardu given most of their deck runs on one mana spells and without their faithless looting they brick easily) and the Terminus are obviously strong against Humans..
    Does anyone have any suggestions though?




    Hopefully I can help both of you.

    I've had plenty of success in my local meta with this list. I regularly 3-1-0, and 3-0-1, with it, and sometimes pull 4-0-0. It has developed quite the local rep, I often hear regular opponents chide new players to "have fun not playing magic this round".




    I tested many variants but ive been pushed toward this list because:
    Id rather have it than have to dig for it - so no serum visions
    Id rather have it and not have to mully for it - so 4 Gigadrowse, and 4 Exhaustion, 4 Thing in the Ice, and 10 Engines
    Id rather not have to pay 2 extra mana for it - so no Snapcaster
    Win Conditions MUST COST 3 MANA OR LESS so we dont expose ourselves after turn 3 - so no Mind Sculptor
    White has the most powerful sideboard cards in all of the modern format.
    Angels grace often causes total blowouts against a huge variety of decks(anything that doesn't run bolt).

    Im usually on here ranting about how powerful the white sideboard is, but this time I'm just pointing out you can have a plenty powerful list without the Mind Scuptor, and without Snapcater.

    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from xenob8 »
    regarding the "go infinite" route i used to play emrakul with gaier reach sanitarium for that reason. shuffling everything back let me ultimating original jace twice easier (: instead of bouncing everything a single jace as a wincondition in infinite turns looks better imho!


    No reason why the infinite list cant do both. The Eye of Nowhere could easily be replaced with other cards and still have "bouncing all their permanents" be a thing that the deck just happens to do as it rips through turns. And the Delver of Secrets could be any pet win cons you like. Ive always been a fan of Jace Beleren and Thassa as win conditions because they both also help your card draw/quality.
    but Laboratory Maniac would work out just fine as well. The hypothetical list I posted at the top of the page could easily look more like:



    This version is light (perhaps too light) on early interaction with the added benefit of having way more inevitability once it starts comboing. And yes I think this version can find a way to squeeze in Emrakul if the pilot wants to, we certainly can get to 15 mana to hard cast her.


    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    I think the only color combo no one has really tried yet is the green splash. If I owned any Noble Hierarch I would at least test the Rites of Flourishing version. Possibly with cards like Farseek, Coiling Oracle, Eternal Witness. And backed up by things like Obstinate Baloth, Pulse of Murasa, and Fog from the side.

    The nuts would be:
    Turn One: Land Drop, Noble Hierarch.
    Turn Two: Land Drop, Rites of Flourishing, Land Drop (possibly cast another 1 drop)
    Turn three:Land Drop, Land Drop, Time warp with dispel/spell pierce backup, or 6 drop turn spell, or exhaustion + a second engine.


    The potential to go to combotown before your opponent has any hope of reducing your life total by 20 points really makes this build appealing. But those hands where your Noble Hierarch or Bird of Paradise get bolted/pathed/pushed before you can do anything will suck. Letting them have a second land drop per turn is also particularly dangerous, and makes exhaustion much worse. But Rites of flourishing could make Savor the moment playable.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from idSurge »
    Great question. For me, any deck worth bringing in hate for, knows about it, plans for it, and many are main decking answers for that hate. For me, and the fact you cannot 'hate' on low to the ground aggro, the swing cards are Fatal Push, Collective Brutality, and IoK/Thoughtseize. They do just enough, without getting blown out by a Natures Claim or something, to get us there.


    I always felt white did a pretty good job of providing options to stop fast aggro.

    Some are overperformers




    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Anyone ready to share their GP Vegas lists? I am planning on trying a black or white splash this summer after playing mono-U for 2 years, so looking for any feedback.


    I have been running the White splash for about 2 1/2 years. For the many, many reasons why and lists of sideboard options review my older posts. The Uw version packs the best sideboard hate in modern, thats why I keep my splash. When I test monoblue I feel like its slightly more efficient but far less potent.

    I will say the Ub version has the option to pack more mainboard interaction (like Collective Brutality) and has more proactive options (like Thoughtsieze) it can bring in from the side. And yes, it can also produce a respectively powerful sideboard. The real question is weather you prefer a more proactive or preventative style of play, and which has the edge in the current meta?
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from mapccu »
    Furthermore, it won't loop with a RIP in play.


    Yes when I mentioned going infinite I also mentioned going bounce heavy. This would keep problem permanents like Rest in Peace and Stony Silence off the table. Plus those hands where your busy digging for a win con can often be won due to oppressive board state. Back when I was testing non-infinite bounce heavy turns, most people scooped on turn 7 when I cast a time warp and then bounced their last (or second to last) land. Truly infinite turns might look a bit more like this.



    This list probably needs 1-2 more engines.

    The curve I ended up with (a glut of 2 mana spells), pushed me toward choosing Delver as a win con. Back when I tested delver (in non infinite turns) I found that the first one often ate a Bolt/Path/Push and the second one handed them lethal. When you come up across a removal heavy deck you can be glad that (unless all of their answers are Path to Exile or he gets Surgicalled) then you can confidently still kill them with your 12th delver if that is how many its going to take. Plus in a deck that might take 10+ minutes to win some hands, its important to have at least one of your win cons able to take the game over quickly (time-wise). But honestly one could choose just about any 3-4 win cons they want, most ideally several different singletons that win from different angles. Also since we are going infinite and planning on reshuffling several times, we may want to include the big daddy game ender since his automatic reshuffle acts as mill protection.



    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from zcowan »
    I like remand a lot but it also is starting to feel like a dead card again though... I have been playing a lot of matches against mardu pyromancer in my area lately and remand does nothing to stop them because all of their spells are one mana so you really can't set them back in the way countering a collected company or planes walker does.


    I definitely side remand out against ultra low curve decks. (Robots, Burn, Jund Shadow, ect). But its the closest we have to a straight up Two-mana Time Warp so I keep it in my main. And I do have a piece of advice that I hope will help you a little bit with Mardu Pyroamncer. Gigadrowse is your best one-mana Time Warp, and against two mana decks (Scapeshift, Storm, and Mardu Pyro), it is absolutely correct to use it right away to keep their two mana spell stuck in their hand on the second turn. It sets them back a turn which effectively buys you a free turn. I have compared it to: When they shoot the pistol to start a race, and you reach out to the guy next to you and push him backwards as you launch yourself off the starting line.

    Similar results can be found when your on the play and you bounce their only land.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from zcowan »
    Quote from Shweepsh »
    I don't believe that Karn solves any problems that the deck may have. He simply leads to a different version of the deck, one in which I doubt would be an improvement. The UR-Chandra version has always appealed to me, but I don't consider it better or more consistent than my UW version; thus, I have never considered acquiring the cards a worthy use of time & resources. At least Jace makes an immediate impact by either digging three cards deep or delaying their largest threat. Any chance that an artifact-Karn version could accelerate in order to combo sooner, like the BANT version?

    Thank you Xenob8! Welcome back Purklefluff! I've been waiting to hear your conclusions from testing your UR(splash) with 2x Pyroclasm in the side board. Because of the rising popularity of Humans, I imagine it has a lot of promise. If you would rather save your thoughts for the Primer, then by all means, I will wait. I look forward to some updates.

    Since tuning, my UW version has performed well at FNM. I only lose to fast red decks (burn and goblins). Although, I have yet to be paired against Jund. Has anyone tested with Sphere of Safety?


    Could you do me a favor and post your UW build??


    I have also been having good fortune with the UW version for about 2 years now. This is what I took to FNM last friday. I took 1st and went undefeated after not playing the deck at all for the last 4 months(very busy semester). The sideboard is four months out of date and after seeing lots of hollow one and instant reanimator around my local meta, I will likely go up to 3 Rest in Peace or look at adding Grafdigger's Cage. I have tested many versions of this deck and have settled on the lowest curve possible which still maximizes interaction, and can still take over the game come turn 5. I have been strongly advocating having a white sideboard because of the high quality of hate it brings to the table.





    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Nexus of Fate does seem to open up new win cons. Having fewer Turns spells that exile and more that stay in your deck would let a pair of Elixir of Immortality take us us truly infinite. Once there we can win off of our choice of singleton win cons. Or they could just scoop to oppressive board state if we start bouncing their permanents while we patiently dig for win cons. Overall, not a bad route to go down, if a little more troll than some of our usual win cons.

    I should also point our we were given a very powerful tool against Burn and Aggro in Fountain of Renewal. It may prove to be a situatioinal upgrade from sun droplet. I certainly do like that it only costs 1.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from MoosehBoy »

    I don't think it can replace a Mine effect, but it works well as a 'half-Mine-half-land'.


    I have been against Search for Azcanta as a card for our deck. Back when it was new and we were all discussing it, I had trouble finding a good card for comparison. The best I came up with was comparing it to a ramp spell (Rampant Growth, or mana rock (Talisman of Progress). Its ability to ramp us a turn ahead is good for us. But the activation cost on its Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin side, costs 4 effective mana.

    I can't get behind such a large mana expenditure just to draw a card. My major problem with the Sunken Ruin activation is that I believe it is definitely win-more. When comboing; we rarely have that much extra mana. If we do have that much extra mana, it is usually because we stumble and are unable to continue to keep casting Warps. But these are the same turns we will be spending our mana on Pseudo-Turns. Cryptic Command and Gigadrowse both do a great job of keeping us alive through these stumbles. I don't see us having 4 extra mana(very often) during these turns either.

    Yes I realize its going to be the best card out of 4, but when I compare it to an actual Mine effect it comes up short. I do think the correct line of thought is to treat it as anything but a mine effect. And so because of this, cutting a land for it is probably a correct choice. Don't get me wrong, drawing more cards is very good for us, but having to spend mana to dig for the correct card is quite bad. I would rather have just "have it" than have to "dig for it"

    I would honestly just rather run Farseek.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from paintcops »
    Quote from Tanarax »

    Turns is very match up dependent. Some days you feel untouchable, and some days the planets all line up.... not in your favor. So don't let one bad tourney ruin your perception of the deck. On average (over many, many hands), Turns is better than the average tournament deck (beats most teir 1 and teir 2 decks 50% of the time or better), but this doesn't make it so every hand is a winner. Indeed, two FNM's ago I went 9-2 by hands and the following week I went 1-7. Variance happens, and there is nothing you can do about it except ensure your deck is thoroughly randomized and keep your fingers crossed that they don't draw pure jetfuel off the top of their library.

    As far as the splash is concerned. When I first picked up this deck a couple of years ago I tried monoblue first. It is slightly more efficient than using the splash. For the most part splashing doesn't hurt, but every once in a while I have had to lay a turn one Glacial Fortress into turn 2 Glacial Fortress (feels pretty bad). I have been on the white splash for more than a year now and I still have to advocate for it. For the most part, I keep my mainboard blue and bring an almost all white sideboard (during pump infect winter last year I was packing 2 Angelsong in the main to great effect).



    Thank you mate. Really nice words and thoughts. You are right, I had really good results testing so I can't lose hope because of a single tournament. I will give another chance to the deck. I can't see myself playing another deck, its the one I enjoy most playing and after all I got some skills with it.

    I was wondering if you could post the decklist you use. I know nothing about the manabase for splashes in turns, and the decklists I found are not really serious or consistent. Thank you again.


    This is my stock list. If you scroll up to post #1519 you will see what I have been testing more recently. honestly it changes constantly. Since Timewalkinonsunshine brought it up I should point out that I have a couple of factors pushing me into this current mana base.

    1) I sometimes NEED white mana as early as turn 2 (for things like Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, or even meddling mage). Eventually through testing I found that 11 white got me there often enough (although the math points more toward 13 white being ideal, im happy with 11).
    https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/
    2) And I cannot afford for any of my mid-game lands to enter tapped (so eventually I decided no Celestial Colonnade or Temples).

    I have been using the below land base since last Februrary (upgraded from darksteel citadel to cataracts). So I think I am in a happy middle ground where I am not too weak to blood moon(9 basics still). Game one(since I am just blue in the main), I fetch into basics. They see me fetch into basic islands, then cast a whole slew of blue spells and they usually take out their blood moons realizing its not very likely to cripple me.





    The sideboard changes constantly. But this is the core I start from before I start substituting in cards to test.



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