I don't play DS or Traverse builds, but from what I've read, most people would say "Nothing compares to Bauble because it's 0 mana, and you need to be able to play it turn 1 WITH a thoughtseize or traverse or whatever." My personal observation of people playing these style of decks is that the delayed "cycling" that bauble gives you is absolutely devastating in the later parts of the game. Top decking a Bauble, then getting a creature or sorcery off it on your opponents turn just kills tempo. That's my personal observation, I don't feel strongly either way, and if someone wanted to challenge me on that I will gladly submit to their opinion. But it doesn't hurt to try. Good luck, have fun.
Is having 23 lands a new thing? It used to be 24 right? Whats the reasoning behind it? I mean i understand you can play less lands if you got hierarchs. But if u dont?
I run 23 lands because that's what I'm comfortable with. I rarely flood, and don't get mana screwed any more than if I was playing 24. Even without Noble Hierarch, I think the curve is still low enough that 23 is a good spot. If you're more comfortable with 24, play 24. I've just found a lot of success with 23 personally since it allows me to play an extra removal spell.
However, when I was playing Jund, I played 24 lands because Raging Ravine requires 5 lands to use and I wanted to hit that 5th land consistently. Making the curve technically around 5. With Abzan, not so much.
I'm more interested to see how Glorybringer is performing right now rather than any of the Gods. I always told myself I would totally play Falmetongue Kavu if it were modern legal.
Never thought about Harsh Mentor as Tron hate but it definitely makes sense. I guess it technically doubles as Affinity hate as well since their main win-con is 100 Ravenger activations onto one unblocked creature.
Has anyone else been watching the new set spoiler recently? There's a new interesting brew for company decks that may turn that match-up worse.
Abzan company now has a way to make infinite mana which we can't interact with at all in the form of Devoted Druid and Vizier of Remedies.
Is there any tech for this or is it just straight up unwinnable?
Previous iterations of coco could be kept in check with Grafdigger's cage even if they have the combo but this isn't the case anymore.
Any tech for this? Jut kill the creatures. Thats the whole point of playing Abzan.
But I think just cramming it into a midrange deck with a couple mainboard Nihil Spellbombs isn't going to do the card justice. It can be much better than that.
If you want to play a traditional B/G/x deck, I think Dark Confidant is just better since it requires no synergy and just draws cards.
I can see going down to 1 decay. So I could run something like 4 Pushes, 1 Decay, 2 KCommand, 1 Pulse, 3 Terminate, 2 Bolt and 4 LotV as removal suite.
I refuse to ever play less than 2 Abrupt Decay. It feels so powerful just having mainboard answers to random permanents people try to hose you with. The other day my opponent playing Affinity Counters dropped a random Nissa, Voice of Zendikar that I was able to just remove conveniently. Even when it doesn't seem good, it's sometimes just randomly good.
Yeah, it does seem good, but what keeps me thinking, is in that list, what I am really playing red for? Only KCommand, Ravine and Grudge basically. IDK about Chandra, never liked her, but I think thats what it would come down to. I like the approach but I would still play some bolts in the deck is what I am thinking.
In builds without Noble Hierarch, has anybody thought about running mainboard Languish alongside 4 Tarmogoyf, 4 Siege Rhino, and like 2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang? There are a lot of small creature decks at my lgs, and I feel like I board in Damnation every game and just loose my entire board when I could just play something along the lines of Anger of the Gods and have a better outcome. Having 10, 5-toughness creatures alongside Languish feels super powerful. I've never seen a deck do this and I'm curious as to why, has anybody tried it?
Uh not really. Once they're in top deck mode, they have to luck out or find an Ancient Stirrings. All of that takes time. Ugin also does nothing to Raging Ravine. It's how I've beaten them in those rare moments. Karn and Ulamog are just insufferable.
OK, extract their Karn and see how well you fare against Ugin, Ulamog, World Breaker, Walking Ballista and Wurmcoil Engine and please do report back.
Lost Legacy does not help you beat Tron one bit. I wish it did.
I was responding to the comment about their threats all being the same. They're not. Without Karn and Ugin, a game against Tron is far more manageable.
My comment, the one you were responding to, had nothing to do with their treats all being the same.
I really wouldn't bring it in against Tron because their threats are redundant.
But they really don't have that many.
All of which just end the game if you don't answer them in time. I've found it's almost impossible to beat Tron by going after their Win-cons. Lands buy you time to Aggro out, but if they have Tron online and you're just spending time answering what they throw down, they're just going to continue to draw more powerful stuff.
I don't play DS or Traverse builds, but from what I've read, most people would say "Nothing compares to Bauble because it's 0 mana, and you need to be able to play it turn 1 WITH a thoughtseize or traverse or whatever." My personal observation of people playing these style of decks is that the delayed "cycling" that bauble gives you is absolutely devastating in the later parts of the game. Top decking a Bauble, then getting a creature or sorcery off it on your opponents turn just kills tempo. That's my personal observation, I don't feel strongly either way, and if someone wanted to challenge me on that I will gladly submit to their opinion. But it doesn't hurt to try. Good luck, have fun.
I run 23 lands because that's what I'm comfortable with. I rarely flood, and don't get mana screwed any more than if I was playing 24. Even without Noble Hierarch, I think the curve is still low enough that 23 is a good spot. If you're more comfortable with 24, play 24. I've just found a lot of success with 23 personally since it allows me to play an extra removal spell.
However, when I was playing Jund, I played 24 lands because Raging Ravine requires 5 lands to use and I wanted to hit that 5th land consistently. Making the curve technically around 5. With Abzan, not so much.
I'll probably try it out in the coming weeks.
Any tech for this? Jut kill the creatures. Thats the whole point of playing Abzan.
But I think just cramming it into a midrange deck with a couple mainboard Nihil Spellbombs isn't going to do the card justice. It can be much better than that.
If you want to play a traditional B/G/x deck, I think Dark Confidant is just better since it requires no synergy and just draws cards.
Nothing in Burn does anything on ETB...
If that deck can make every fetchland a lightning bolt I think it will. 100% believe it'll find it's way into that deck. Even if its SB.
I refuse to ever play less than 2 Abrupt Decay. It feels so powerful just having mainboard answers to random permanents people try to hose you with. The other day my opponent playing Affinity Counters dropped a random Nissa, Voice of Zendikar that I was able to just remove conveniently. Even when it doesn't seem good, it's sometimes just randomly good.
I guess nobody showed up with burn because both of those decks have a ridiculous lack of burn hate.
Is much as it pains me, I do like 4 Fatal Push over 4 Lightning Bolt right now.
Also a huge fan of the Thundermaw Hellkites sideboard. I'm very curious to see which decks he boards those in for (other than Abzan).
Huntmaster of the Fells is a pretty good reason to play red.
Go Logan
Kitchen Finks
Blessed Alliance
Collective Brutality
Timely Reinforcements
Feed the Clan
Lone Missionary
My comment, the one you were responding to, had nothing to do with their treats all being the same.