Except that with Stax he might as well send emails to his friends insulting them and their ancestry and save the money since stax is likely to produce the same reaction.
I wondered recently why all of my decks have a bunch of slots devoted to various forms of control, including multiple sweepers. After thinking some about it, I realized that a college friend moving back to my state changed the meta in our playgroup, requiring more removal. My other friends are lazy deckbuilders, and so rarely pack enough removal to stand on their own.
So while I hear advice all the time saying “You don’t have to have an answer to everything, you have two other players to band with”, in my case I don’t. If I don’t produce a response to my friend going off, then we lose. So I pack the most control of anyone in my group.
Is this common out in the LGS for people to build lazy, only to realize that the whole table is losing because no one had packed a response?
With two of my more recent decks tearing up my kitchen table meta being developed partly from reading the Kaladesh and Amonkhet set reviews to find some gems, I’ve actually started to regularly peruse your releases. Something I’ve been seeing as a trend has me a bit stumped. While organized play and Commander seem to be very supported in the WotC set designs, it seems the grades you give to sets indicate a lack of design consideration to casual multiplayer.
What’s your take on MP design support? Do you see a problem?
Except that with Stax he might as well send emails to his friends insulting them and their ancestry and save the money since stax is likely to produce the same reaction.
New 7/21/18: Creatures from Legends through Urza’s Destiny. Core sets and specials like the Commander series will be held to last. For now, we’re trucking through expansion sets. Sorry for not posting for a long while, I’ve been chasing other passions.
Avarice Amulet - commanders don't "die", they go back to command zone, so you can ignore the downside of the card
Is that really true? If the commander doesn’t die, then there is no effect to replace, so it has to die, or be exiled, or tucked, or bounced before that which is affecting is replaced. All you are doing is changing where the card leaves the battlefield to go. So if I’m right, the opponent would get the amulet.
Control decks are going to have a easier time going up against two types of decks:
1. Dependent on general in play, because they can focus their interaction on just one threat.
2. Uses the combat step to win, because that's the easiest thing to stop/slow down.
If you want to beat controllish type decks, you have to out-value them (e.g. recursion, PW's, etc.) or find a consistent way to stick huge threat(s) (e.g. indestructible/hexproof, Locust/Scarab God, Mirari's Wake/Zendikar Resurgent, etc.).
Since I play control decks, I can say that fighting fire with fire is good. When control players are nuking, it’s often only certain types of permanents. For example, creature sweepers raining down might mean they are relying on enchantments/artifacts/PWs. So, hit them there, deny them that safe harbor. Having enough hard answers isn’t always having twenty Wraths and counterspells/spot removal for critters. But decks not racing for an infinite win need enough defenses to stay stable. I pack more than I like because my other friends are lazy deckbuilders and don’t, so I can’t rely on other players to shut down my strongest competitor. He likewise packs his own defenses. Fighting control with control isn’t a bad idea in non-cEDH because you at least have your own nukes to prey on players with too few hard answers.
Your group sounds a lot like mine, except the edh wins are more evenly distributed in ours. Do you think your issue (all your friends) is that you’re focusing more on theme and not enough on solid mechanics?
I have made this error (theme wise) and have since dismantled those decks. Being cute doesn't cut it in EDH.
Anyway, not meaning to lecture here. It will help us if you can tell us more your friend’s typical attack vectors, cards he punks you with, etc.
No offense taken!
It would take too long to go into detail, but let me show an example: he will steal a creature with Merieke Ri Berit then sac it via Ertai, the Corrupted. This is the kind of stuff we are being presented with. With Captain Sisay, it becomes a true nightmare after a while...
Your friend sounds like a mix between my friend and I. We both play a lot of control and strong synergies, just at a non-cEDH level. The way I overcame his stromg synergies, honestly, was robbing from other cards types and beefing up solid control, both mass-removal and spot removal. I look for theme cards that play well together with all the parts of the deck, so that whatever I draw (within reason) has a good chance of being relevant, and then pack enough draw to get past pileups of land or early cards. In short, I had to focus on hard control answers and card advantage of all types (recursion, draw, and mass-destruction). While it makes all of my decks control decks to some degree, at least I have something in the deck that can address issues that come up. Now, between him and I it just comes down to which one of us gets that synergy or control card that matches up better versus the other person because we are on an equal footing. Without going tier1 and infnite, that’s about the best you can ask for.
Edit: Forgot to mention that a lot of my mass destruction either is one-sided Wrath effects to leave my board intact while wrecking the opponent, or sweepers that hit card types that I intentionally minimize so that scorched-earth moves don’t cripple me. Stuff like Lavalanche, Hex, Aura Shards, Torment of Hailfire, Sudden Spoiling, Decimate. Less stuff like Wrath, Damnation, Shatterstorm, Fracturing Gust, UNLESS I’m not reliant on those card types. Flexible mass answers like Austere Command and Merciless Eviction are also super-strong for saving your butt. Minimizing dependency on what you nuke en masse really amps the card advantage insanely into your favor. Doing this ensures that while your friend makes strong plays, his lockouts are potentially limited when you have nukes ready to reset his board and stabilize your own.
Your group sounds a lot like mine, except the edh wins are more evenly distributed in ours. Do you think your issue (all your friends) is that you’re focusing more on theme and not enough on solid mechanics? Cards like sweepers for multiple card types, card draw, repetitive or mass recycling, spot removal/exile, utility lands like Arcane Lighthouse, Bojuka Bog, or Rogue’s Passage?
I ask because when I make a deck and don’t purposefully plan as balanced a deck as I can, I have a hard time stopping my strongest competition. Like you, we don’t pack many tier 1 cards, but we are experienced and can use the good cards we do play with. Possibly your decks just need some refining within the themes you have without spending gobs of money on a new deck. $50 of refurb at most can do wonders to spruce up your mechanics and doing so has saved most of my decks. The cool thing is there are so many cards about, you can even save Vorthos builds with on-theme swaps.
Anyway, not meaning to lecture here. It will help us if you can tell us more your friend’s typical attack vectors, cards he punks you with, etc. There is an answer for everything, and these guys are great at solving strategy issues, which is what this sounds more like. Some more details on your friend’s strategy will help.
For example, Merieke is annoying, but can be handled without too much problem until my friend pairs her with Pemmin’s Aura, which turns her into a nightmare wrecking ball
I'll repeat myself and throw Gonti, Lord of Luxury in the ring.
Always ends up doing some weird stuff...
Not to hijack the OP, but what is it about Gonti that’s so fun in edh? I run 4 Gonti in a Kaladesh 60-card deck, but I’ve found he’s rather hit or miss and it’s a good thing I rely on gearhulks for end game steam. Sometimes it’s a janky spell, but I did steal someone’s Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet to close out a game recently, so I do enjoy Gonti, but might play Yahenni vampires over Gonti in MB edh. Is it the sheer variance of spells in edh that makes him worth being a commander?
This might be prefaced by saying that I don’t normally play U/G and find it a fun, fun variation to normal control. I really enjoy using a shell of mutants to keep Simic Combine theme, but then pack in spells that make an absolute mess of battlecruiser decks in combat. The suite of hijinks is very fun and my friends seem to really enjoy it, too. I personally use Prime Speaker Zegana to keep steam going all game, but Kraj is good, along with Vorel of the Hull Clade for a laid back theme still with as many teeth as you want.
Someone actually used Channel\Disintegrate in a 3-person 60 card game recently to stop someone else from winning via a tricked-in Blightsteel. I won the game ultimately because I was not the target. I will say Deflecting Palm has killed more than one person in my group by sending a powered up killbot back at the owner. Fun stuff.
And while Channel is banned in this format, there are about a billion-jillion ways to generate similar mana. Misdirect seems a pretty good toolbox card no one will see coming.
I stand by my earlier advice, to run something to make sure you deal combat damage to the opponent.
Hit opponent for effect is a nice subtheme. (anyone know what Silent-Blade Oni does without peeking?)
Maybe something like this as a rough shell? The Deed will clear most chump blockers to get the angels through to one of my opponents and help keep me upright in other situations.
Hmm, I see a problem though with Deed blasting my own mana. Maybe instead do some 4x Darksteel Ingots and a couple Ravnica bounce lands for double mana...something like that.
If you're just looking to use it to cheat creatures into play, Lure of Prey, Elvish Piper etc. have that covered.
Hmm, very good feedback from all three of you. Thanks. So if I were to create a shell of something like some number of Alara blades (maybe two of each for a total of ten) to weather early assaults, the archangels, twenty lands for rainbow colors, and then set the Cavern of Souls as a final four lands for “avatar”, I could then use 5-mana avatars for mid-game, and have some really big avatars like the Primordial cycle and Progenitus for finishers with massive spells of the stupidly powerful variety. Is that something along the lines of what the archangels are best for?
I’m thinking spells like Insurrection, Blatant Thievery, Army of the Damned, etc.
So while I hear advice all the time saying “You don’t have to have an answer to everything, you have two other players to band with”, in my case I don’t. If I don’t produce a response to my friend going off, then we lose. So I pack the most control of anyone in my group.
Is this common out in the LGS for people to build lazy, only to realize that the whole table is losing because no one had packed a response?
What’s your take on MP design support? Do you see a problem?
Your friend sounds like a mix between my friend and I. We both play a lot of control and strong synergies, just at a non-cEDH level. The way I overcame his stromg synergies, honestly, was robbing from other cards types and beefing up solid control, both mass-removal and spot removal. I look for theme cards that play well together with all the parts of the deck, so that whatever I draw (within reason) has a good chance of being relevant, and then pack enough draw to get past pileups of land or early cards. In short, I had to focus on hard control answers and card advantage of all types (recursion, draw, and mass-destruction). While it makes all of my decks control decks to some degree, at least I have something in the deck that can address issues that come up. Now, between him and I it just comes down to which one of us gets that synergy or control card that matches up better versus the other person because we are on an equal footing. Without going tier1 and infnite, that’s about the best you can ask for.
Edit: Forgot to mention that a lot of my mass destruction either is one-sided Wrath effects to leave my board intact while wrecking the opponent, or sweepers that hit card types that I intentionally minimize so that scorched-earth moves don’t cripple me. Stuff like Lavalanche, Hex, Aura Shards, Torment of Hailfire, Sudden Spoiling, Decimate. Less stuff like Wrath, Damnation, Shatterstorm, Fracturing Gust, UNLESS I’m not reliant on those card types. Flexible mass answers like Austere Command and Merciless Eviction are also super-strong for saving your butt. Minimizing dependency on what you nuke en masse really amps the card advantage insanely into your favor. Doing this ensures that while your friend makes strong plays, his lockouts are potentially limited when you have nukes ready to reset his board and stabilize your own.
I ask because when I make a deck and don’t purposefully plan as balanced a deck as I can, I have a hard time stopping my strongest competition. Like you, we don’t pack many tier 1 cards, but we are experienced and can use the good cards we do play with. Possibly your decks just need some refining within the themes you have without spending gobs of money on a new deck. $50 of refurb at most can do wonders to spruce up your mechanics and doing so has saved most of my decks. The cool thing is there are so many cards about, you can even save Vorthos builds with on-theme swaps.
Anyway, not meaning to lecture here. It will help us if you can tell us more your friend’s typical attack vectors, cards he punks you with, etc. There is an answer for everything, and these guys are great at solving strategy issues, which is what this sounds more like. Some more details on your friend’s strategy will help.
For example, Merieke is annoying, but can be handled without too much problem until my friend pairs her with Pemmin’s Aura, which turns her into a nightmare wrecking ball
And while Channel is banned in this format, there are about a billion-jillion ways to generate similar mana. Misdirect seems a pretty good toolbox card no one will see coming.
Hmm, I see a problem though with Deed blasting my own mana. Maybe instead do some 4x Darksteel Ingots and a couple Ravnica bounce lands for double mana...something like that.
“Boom!” Goes the Archangel Anarchy
Creatures:
4 Esper Stormblade
4 Grixis Grimblade
4 Maelstrom Archangel
4 5-or-less-cmc avatars
1 Progenitus
5 Primordials - the cycle
Non-creatures:
4 Fellwar Stone
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
2 Decree of Pain
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Beast Within
2 Blatant Thievery
1 Recurring Nightmare
Land:
20 rainbow lands
4 Cavern of Souls
I’m thinking spells like Insurrection, Blatant Thievery, Army of the Damned, etc.