I think that a good jund player makes nice results with the deck now.
I don't know what cc4 drop is better than others now.
Olivia? Huntmaster? Kalitas? Chandra?
In all my local tournaments I was very unsatisfied by Chandra, Torch of Defiance. On the other hand, Chandra Pyromaster saved me a lot of matches.
So, with the new entry "Fatal Push", what cc4 can be the best?
I love the combination of Olivia and Huntmaster: They are both good against tokens, Bolt is on an all-time low and both take over games very quickly if unanswered.
In the Taverse build, what are your two toolbox-lands of choice?
I am pretty happy with Bojuka Bog in the current meta, but I am not sure what should be my second land. I don't particularly like Ghost Quarter as I am not a fan of colorless mana in the mb, I played several matches with Pendelhaven (and 4x Souls in the mb) and was not impressed too much, and the manlands in the Abzan colors are just underwhelming.
I have tried out several different gravehate cards in the sb (Cage, Spellbomb, Surgical), none of them have entirely convinced me so far. The main problem I always had with Leyline was that you really want her in your opening hand, but by playing 3 you should open the game with her quite often without drawing her a second/third time on a regular basis. I will definitely try her out as a 3-off and will give you guys some feedback after my next few tournaments.
My opinion on them: As always with new cards (and it should be that way), people try them out and share their experience. Some win a single fnm with the new build and claim it amazing. I personally am not a big fan of them, the god is not better than any other 4 drop (I would even say she is worse than Chandra, Huntmaster, Kalitas or Olivia), and a 5-drop is not where I want to be with Jund.
There will always be hype around new cards, but not every new spoiled card is called Fatal Push.
Thanks for the updated primer, keep up the great work!
I saw in the matchup analysis that you declared Amulet Titan as a decent matchup. However, I feel like it is (like every other big mana deck) a very difficult deck to play against with Jund. Round 14 of SCG Baltimore was another example, when Reid had a hard time to deal with a resolved Titan or a Hornet queen postboard. He got smashed 0-2, and it seemed to confirm my feelings about the matchup. Yes, discard is good against them, but their topdeck is just ridiculous. Any advice on how to deal with the deck?
Congrats on your results! I think I might try out Reid's list aswell.
Anyway, Jund is not tier 3 because it is a bad deck, it is tier 3 because it is not played a lot nowadays. There are the bad matchups (but Tron is also on the decline), but also some good matchups: Counters Company, Gifts Storm, the Shadow decks and Affinity are all tier 1 and far from unwinnable.
The times are not as grim as the tier lists want us to believe it.
If I remember correctly, Edel posted the list with just 19 lands. Jadine plays 20, and I have to say after testing I tend to prefer 20 lands as I was screwed several times when playing 19.
Was it just bad luck or are 19 lands not enough in a midrange deck? Although Willy Edel might have some reason to not include more.
If we talk about 2 different decks, I absolutely agree with the analysis. But by comparing the new Bant interation with the Abzan deck, I don't see the reasoning behing playing blue instead of black.
Imo it is not a toolbox deck to some degree, but a complete toolbox deck. Think about it, there are no vanilla beaters, each creature comes with a useful effect. I agree with you that in theory Chord seems to be an amazing card, but
a) Path is too important in Bant Company
b) this deck's main strategy is to beatdown the opponent, therefore a second combo disrupts our plan, as we start drawing more single combopieces (that can't even win us the game every time).
Our exisiting combo is based on a toolbox creature and an enchantment that is not an entirely dead draw and fills only 2 slots, which reduces dead draws in the lategame. And you don't really need to deal infinite damage with Knight, because a card like Lotus Cobra seals the deal aswell and fits way better into the deck.
@Flying Delver,
is it possible for you to make a sideboard guide for Living End? It starts appearing at my local store and I am interested what gravehate to include/change in my sideboard, which cards to board out/in.
I currently play 2x Spellbomb and 2x Cage (mainly for Vizier Company, Elves, Dredge and Storm), but I am still unsure whether this is the ideal configuration, especially because Cage is useless against Living End. Was always considering to include Leyline instead of the other gravehate, but before buying them I would like to hear some suggestions.
I believe the Vizier combo doesn't really fit into Knightfall. The new Abzan Company versions are mainly a combo deck and can outgrind the opponent sometimes. However, Knightfall imo is a creature-toolbox deck that works more like a tempo/midrange deck that has the option to combo off if the pieces come together. Retreat also feels like a "natural" card in the deck, whereas the Druid/Vizier package seems to be isolated from the rest of the deck.
Bothe decks may be CoCo decks, but their gameplan is totally different. Also, giving up on Path to Exile is something I am very sceptical about, I think the removal is needed more in our deck than another tutor.
Both of them are obviously way better players than I am, so I might be wrong with my assumptions, but I feel like the new version is mainly a result of the hype around the new combo and we will see more of the "classic" list in the future.
I would always stay on 4 counters in the sb, as they are helpful against a plethora of decks. Alliance is a bomb in the current meta, Staticaster is also a cornerstone of the deck's sb. I haven't tested Evolution, so I can't give you information about this one. I would say it depends on your meta, but you could try cutting either 1 Reflector Mage, the GQ or the Rec Sage.
edit: assuming you face an unknown meta, I would cut the Rec Sage.
I love the combination of Olivia and Huntmaster: They are both good against tokens, Bolt is on an all-time low and both take over games very quickly if unanswered.
I am pretty happy with Bojuka Bog in the current meta, but I am not sure what should be my second land. I don't particularly like Ghost Quarter as I am not a fan of colorless mana in the mb, I played several matches with Pendelhaven (and 4x Souls in the mb) and was not impressed too much, and the manlands in the Abzan colors are just underwhelming.
There will always be hype around new cards, but not every new spoiled card is called Fatal Push.
I saw in the matchup analysis that you declared Amulet Titan as a decent matchup. However, I feel like it is (like every other big mana deck) a very difficult deck to play against with Jund. Round 14 of SCG Baltimore was another example, when Reid had a hard time to deal with a resolved Titan or a Hornet queen postboard. He got smashed 0-2, and it seemed to confirm my feelings about the matchup. Yes, discard is good against them, but their topdeck is just ridiculous. Any advice on how to deal with the deck?
Congrats on your results! I think I might try out Reid's list aswell.
Anyway, Jund is not tier 3 because it is a bad deck, it is tier 3 because it is not played a lot nowadays. There are the bad matchups (but Tron is also on the decline), but also some good matchups: Counters Company, Gifts Storm, the Shadow decks and Affinity are all tier 1 and far from unwinnable.
The times are not as grim as the tier lists want us to believe it.
Was it just bad luck or are 19 lands not enough in a midrange deck? Although Willy Edel might have some reason to not include more.
a) Path is too important in Bant Company
b) this deck's main strategy is to beatdown the opponent, therefore a second combo disrupts our plan, as we start drawing more single combopieces (that can't even win us the game every time).
Our exisiting combo is based on a toolbox creature and an enchantment that is not an entirely dead draw and fills only 2 slots, which reduces dead draws in the lategame. And you don't really need to deal infinite damage with Knight, because a card like Lotus Cobra seals the deal aswell and fits way better into the deck.
is it possible for you to make a sideboard guide for Living End? It starts appearing at my local store and I am interested what gravehate to include/change in my sideboard, which cards to board out/in.
I currently play 2x Spellbomb and 2x Cage (mainly for Vizier Company, Elves, Dredge and Storm), but I am still unsure whether this is the ideal configuration, especially because Cage is useless against Living End. Was always considering to include Leyline instead of the other gravehate, but before buying them I would like to hear some suggestions.
Bothe decks may be CoCo decks, but their gameplan is totally different. Also, giving up on Path to Exile is something I am very sceptical about, I think the removal is needed more in our deck than another tutor.
Both of them are obviously way better players than I am, so I might be wrong with my assumptions, but I feel like the new version is mainly a result of the hype around the new combo and we will see more of the "classic" list in the future.
Or simply Ancestral Vision
edit: assuming you face an unknown meta, I would cut the Rec Sage.