I went 4-1 twice with a poverty (rain of tears) build of this. I have to leave the game temporarily, so if anyone wants to try this, after Aether Revolt, -2 Disfigure, -1 Go for the Throat, +3 Fatal Push.
My Matchup vs RG Valakut decks probably has me as a 40%-60% dog. I really liked your Ghost Quarter suggestion. Ghost quarter plus Surgical Extraction is lights out for Valakut if they aren't Through the Breaching Emrakul's.
I agree with you now that 4 Snapcaster Mages in Grixis Control is correct. You made a very good point about it there.
I did mention that the sb guide is terribly incomplete, I'll refine it tomorrow.
I have a different perspective on some of your card suggestions Cody_X.
With the heavy 3 mana curve in this deck, I feel 23 lands is optimal. The most important reason for 23 lands is it reduces mulligans imo.
We need Hero's Downfall for Nahiri or else the +2 uptick is insurmountable for lingering souls/tar pits to take out.
Slaughter Pact is good if we were playing a tempo game, which we are not.
Esper Charm and Painful Truths are too slow for us. I think Ancestral Vision is actually really bad and too slow. Corey lost many games with Grixis Control before the Turn 1 Ancestral Visions went off.
I think Nihil Spellbomb is strictly better than Ravenous Trap. We might cut the 1-of Spellbomb for a Rain of Tears to improve the RG Valakut matchup.
Elspeth is insane Cody. It board wipes Eldrazi or creates insurmountable value that wins.
Gideon and both Sorins are also way too frail.
I may be cocky (with the winrate %), but I'm a pretty determined guy and determination turns into obsession which turns into all that matters.
I've been playing this on MTGO to increasing success.
4 3-2's
2 4-1's (with 1 barely missing a 5-0 today due to play error)
This deck is extremely hard to pilot. I recommend this to the pros and competitive players with 10+ years of experience. If you learn to pilot this deck optimally, you can expect a 70% winrate vs the field with about a 65% edge vs Tron as it's worst matchup. This deck is special because it's insanely hard to pilot but if you can, it will be extremely rewarding. I'm deciding to release this decklist to the public because sooner of later it will be picked up when I 5-0 and I want to give back to the community and make a name for myself.
Darkslick Shores Helps our early game curve out. Sometimes it's correct to play this on T3 instead of T1/T2 if you need to fetchland thin your deck.
IslandSwampPlains There's a card called Path to Exile in the format. We're not too worried about not having 3 basic Island for Cryptic Command vs Blood Moon because we have Anguished Unmaking in the board and we can still maneuver decently with our basics.
Watery GraveHallowed FountainGodless Shrine - There really good. A lot of the times you're going to have to fetch for these and play them untapped to shock yourself to play your cards and have correct mana for possible upcoming relevant spells.
2 Creeping Tar Pit: Card is great. Tasigur + Tar Pit is 7 damage a turn. Combined with Cryptic, you can put them on a 2 or 3 turn clock based on the situation. The only debate is to run 2 or 3, and 2 in this decklist I've found to be optimal.
1 Westvale Abbey: Diversification of manlands because it can't be Lightning Bolted. It's a late-game token generator. Ormendahl has so far been somewhat of a win-more so far, but I haven't put in a large enough sample size of games. I've played about 35 League matches with this deck, and the token-generation late game has seen more prominence so far. It can combo with Lingering Souls and 1 Snapcaster Mage and come out of nowhere on Turn 6. If there is a card to cut/change in this deck, it would be this card but so far I can't find an adequate replacement.
4 Tasigur, the Golden Fang Card is insane. We're playing Esper Control with a consistent Turn 2 Tarmogoyf essentially that has a late-game attrition ability activation. With incredibly correct planning, you can get great value from Tasigur activation's such as getting back a Cryptic Command/Snapcaster, but often they give you a Thought Scour/ Inquiistion of Kozilek. Another thing special about Tasigur is that it fades Abrupt Decay.
4 Lingering Souls Card is insane. Great vs almost every matchup except for Tron where it's decent as a slow threat.
3 Snapcaster Mage Card is insane. But! 3-of is correct. Many people *cough* Corey Burkhart *cough* run 4 Snapcasters in their control lists. The problem with this is many times you're opening hands will contain 2 Snapcasters and that's terrible for early game. Ozman Ozguney in his Modern UB Control list runs 3 too.
4 Serum Visions Card's insane. 1 land Serum Visions hand? Snap Keep! Essentially, but that's not a hard rule so look at the rest of the cards in your hand guys.
4 Thought Scour Card's decent. Mainly powers T2 Tasigur engine. Don't thought scour your opponent if they mulligan and scry top unless they gave you some live tells that it's a land and they mulled to 4 or less. I've ran the simulations and it isn't that +EV in the long run.
3 Thoughtseize Most midrange decks ran a 4-2 split of 4 IoK, 2 Thoughtseize, but because of Elderpzi we need to run a 3-3 split. Card's insane.
1 Go for the Throat Card's great. We're super favorable vs Affinity so it's a fine concession. Remember to rep (represent) the Go for the Throat as a counter/something else vs Affinity when it's the last card sitting in your hand.
3 Cryptic Command Card's insane. You need to master this card. All 4 modes are super relevant and the tap-all creatures has led to epic race-blowouts vs Elderpzi, etc.
3 Blessed Alliance Card's insane. Sup Burn, Sup Reality Smasher, Sup Death's Shadow Aggro, Sup Infect. Sometimes you can be clutch and use the mode to untap Tasigur to block in a race.
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Lingering Souls
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (26)
2 Disfigure
2 Dismember
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Go for the Throat
2 Countersquall
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Cryptic Command
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Collective Brutality
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Damnation
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
I went 4-1 twice with a poverty (rain of tears) build of this. I have to leave the game temporarily, so if anyone wants to try this, after Aether Revolt, -2 Disfigure, -1 Go for the Throat, +3 Fatal Push.
This dark confidant+ monastery mentor t2 t3 combo might work. You can just go crazy in value town with this setup.
Some constructed Criticism:
You don't have lbolts or Kolaghan's Command recursion to support 4 Snapcaster Mage. I advise cutting 1.
6 t1 discard seems to be optimal. Jund and Abzan follow this rule. 3-3 split also seems optimal because of Elderpzi.
Vary up your black removal. Fatal Push is SICK. I'm cutting my 2 disfigure for 2 of them asap. But you can't overload on it. Dismember is your friend.
This deck can be like Grixis Delver per-say with mentor being your pyromancer. Souls might be out of place.
Lily maybe? Nah.
I think if this had a secondary win condition beyond Monastary Mentor it could punch a hole in a lot of Tier 1 decks.
Thanks for taking the time to respond!
I think that you made some really good points.
My Matchup vs RG Valakut decks probably has me as a 40%-60% dog. I really liked your Ghost Quarter suggestion. Ghost quarter plus Surgical Extraction is lights out for Valakut if they aren't Through the Breaching Emrakul's.
I agree with you now that 4 Snapcaster Mages in Grixis Control is correct. You made a very good point about it there.
I did mention that the sb guide is terribly incomplete, I'll refine it tomorrow.
I have a different perspective on some of your card suggestions Cody_X.
With the heavy 3 mana curve in this deck, I feel 23 lands is optimal. The most important reason for 23 lands is it reduces mulligans imo.
We need Hero's Downfall for Nahiri or else the +2 uptick is insurmountable for lingering souls/tar pits to take out.
Slaughter Pact is good if we were playing a tempo game, which we are not.
Esper Charm and Painful Truths are too slow for us. I think Ancestral Vision is actually really bad and too slow. Corey lost many games with Grixis Control before the Turn 1 Ancestral Visions went off.
I think Nihil Spellbomb is strictly better than Ravenous Trap. We might cut the 1-of Spellbomb for a Rain of Tears to improve the RG Valakut matchup.
Elspeth is insane Cody. It board wipes Eldrazi or creates insurmountable value that wins.
Gideon and both Sorins are also way too frail.
I may be cocky (with the winrate %), but I'm a pretty determined guy and determination turns into obsession which turns into all that matters.
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Westvale Abbey
4 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Lingering Souls
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (26)
2 Disfigure
2 Dismember
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Go for the Throat
2 Countersquall
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Cryptic Command
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Blessed Alliance
2 Collective Brutality
2 Anguished Unmaking
1 Damnation
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Hello,
I've been playing this on MTGO to increasing success.
4 3-2's
2 4-1's (with 1 barely missing a 5-0 today due to play error)
This deck is extremely hard to pilot. I recommend this to the pros and competitive players with 10+ years of experience. If you learn to pilot this deck optimally, you can expect a 70% winrate vs the field with about a 65% edge vs Tron as it's worst matchup. This deck is special because it's insanely hard to pilot but if you can, it will be extremely rewarding. I'm deciding to release this decklist to the public because sooner of later it will be picked up when I 5-0 and I want to give back to the community and make a name for myself.
Card & Number Choices:
Lands-
Polluted Delta, Marsh Flats, Flooded Strand: We need 9 to consistently hit the Turn 2 Tasigur combo of Fetch + Thought Scour + Tasigur. 4 Marsh Flats> 4 Flooded Strand is because we need to fetch our Swamp on T1 to play Disfigure, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Thoughtseize on T1 vs Burn/Zoo.
Darkslick Shores Helps our early game curve out. Sometimes it's correct to play this on T3 instead of T1/T2 if you need to fetchland thin your deck.
Island Swamp Plains There's a card called Path to Exile in the format. We're not too worried about not having 3 basic Island for Cryptic Command vs Blood Moon because we have Anguished Unmaking in the board and we can still maneuver decently with our basics.
Watery Grave Hallowed Fountain Godless Shrine - There really good. A lot of the times you're going to have to fetch for these and play them untapped to shock yourself to play your cards and have correct mana for possible upcoming relevant spells.
2 Creeping Tar Pit: Card is great. Tasigur + Tar Pit is 7 damage a turn. Combined with Cryptic, you can put them on a 2 or 3 turn clock based on the situation. The only debate is to run 2 or 3, and 2 in this decklist I've found to be optimal.
1 Westvale Abbey: Diversification of manlands because it can't be Lightning Bolted. It's a late-game token generator. Ormendahl has so far been somewhat of a win-more so far, but I haven't put in a large enough sample size of games. I've played about 35 League matches with this deck, and the token-generation late game has seen more prominence so far. It can combo with Lingering Souls and 1 Snapcaster Mage and come out of nowhere on Turn 6. If there is a card to cut/change in this deck, it would be this card but so far I can't find an adequate replacement.
4 Tasigur, the Golden Fang Card is insane. We're playing Esper Control with a consistent Turn 2 Tarmogoyf essentially that has a late-game attrition ability activation. With incredibly correct planning, you can get great value from Tasigur activation's such as getting back a Cryptic Command/Snapcaster, but often they give you a Thought Scour/ Inquiistion of Kozilek. Another thing special about Tasigur is that it fades Abrupt Decay.
4 Lingering Souls Card is insane. Great vs almost every matchup except for Tron where it's decent as a slow threat.
3 Snapcaster Mage Card is insane. But! 3-of is correct. Many people *cough* Corey Burkhart *cough* run 4 Snapcasters in their control lists. The problem with this is many times you're opening hands will contain 2 Snapcasters and that's terrible for early game. Ozman Ozguney in his Modern UB Control list runs 3 too.
2 Disfigure Hi Noble Hierarch, Dark Confidant, Grim Flayer, Scavenging Ooze, Affinity, Burn, Infect
2 Dismember Reality Smasher, Thought-Knot Seer, Tasigur, the Golden Fang. This is basically our Path to Exile.
4 Serum Visions Card's insane. 1 land Serum Visions hand? Snap Keep! Essentially, but that's not a hard rule so look at the rest of the cards in your hand guys.
4 Thought Scour Card's decent. Mainly powers T2 Tasigur engine. Don't thought scour your opponent if they mulligan and scry top unless they gave you some live tells that it's a land and they mulled to 4 or less. I've ran the simulations and it isn't that +EV in the long run.
3 Inquisition of Kozilek Card's insane.
3 Thoughtseize Most midrange decks ran a 4-2 split of 4 IoK, 2 Thoughtseize, but because of Elderpzi we need to run a 3-3 split. Card's insane.
1 Go for the Throat Card's great. We're super favorable vs Affinity so it's a fine concession. Remember to rep (represent) the Go for the Throat as a counter/something else vs Affinity when it's the last card sitting in your hand.
2 Countersquall Card's really good. Collected Company Scapeshift Corey Burkhart, Karn Liberated
2 Hero's Downfall Nahiri, the Harbinger Karn Liberated, Liliana of the Veil, Other Liliana, Jace, Architect of Thought in UW or else are Lingering Souls do nothing.
3 Cryptic Command Card's insane. You need to master this card. All 4 modes are super relevant and the tap-all creatures has led to epic race-blowouts vs Elderpzi, etc.
Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction Card's insane. Counters Snapcaster Mage, Lingering Souls, Dredge, other weirdo stuff
1 Nihil Spellbomb Card's solid. 4th Dredge hate.
3 Blessed Alliance Card's insane. Sup Burn, Sup Reality Smasher, Sup Death's Shadow Aggro, Sup Infect. Sometimes you can be clutch and use the mode to untap Tasigur to block in a race.
2 Collective Brutality Sup Burn. Card's great. Sup Noble Hierarch when we're on the play.
2 Anguished Unmaking Sup Blood Moon. More creature removal/ planeswalker removal.
1 Damnation Sup Eldrazi. Sup Elves. Abzan, Jund, Grixis Delver(RIP), Infect, Boggles lol.
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion CARD's INSANE. INSANE. Reality Smasher Thought-Knot Seer Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Drowner of Hope. Eldrazi keeps in Path to Exile and Dismember for Tasigur, we take out our Tasigurs and rofl.
I'd like to gradually take over the primer on Modern Esper Control because I believe I can propel this archetype to Tier 1 Status. Now go forth my sons, practice this deck heavily, perfect the sideboard guide with me, take down GP's and show these Modern Tier 1 Clowns how control players control plays. I've been playing Magic for 15 years competitively since I was 8 years old. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/Awesome7574 http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?p_first=Kevin&p_last=Clarkson
Sideboard Guide: (INCOMPLETE I'm copy-pasting will update later)
Vs Boggles
-3 Path to Exile
-1 Tasigur
-4 Cryptic
+2 Anguished Unmaking
+3 Blessed Alliance
+1 Damnation
+2 Collective Brutality
Vs Death's Shadow Aggro:
+3 Blessed Alliance
+3 Threads of Disloyalty
+1 Damnation
+2 Anguished Unmaking
+2 Collective Brutality
-4 Cryptic Command
-2 Countersquall
-2 Thoughtseize
-2 Tasigur
-1 Thought Scour
Vs Infect
-4 Cryptic Command
-2 Countersquall
+3 Blessed Alliance
+2 Collective Brutality
+1 Damnation
Vs Naya Zoo/ Burn
-3 Thoughtseize
-2 Dismember
+3 Blessed Alliance
+2 Collective Brutality
Vs Bant Tribal Spirits CoCo
(play)
+2 Collective Brutality
+2 Anguished Unmaking
-2 Inquisition of Kozilek
-2 Hero's Downfall
(draw)
+3 Blessed Alliance
+2 Collective Brutality
+2 Anguished Unmaking
-4 Thought Scour
-2 Cryptic Command
-1 Tasigur
Vs G/W CoCo Taxes
-2 Thoughtseize
-2 Thought Scour
+2 Collective Brutality
+2 Anguished Unmaking (for rest in peace)
Vs Bant Eldrazi
-2 Countersquall, -3 Cryptic Command, -4 Tasigur
+3 Blessed Alliance, +2 Anguished Unmaking, +3 Elspeth, +1 Damnation
Vs Abzan Midrange
(play)
-2 Thoughtseize, -3 Path to Exile, -2 Countersquall, -2 Cryptic Command
+3 Threads of Disloyalty, +2 Anguished Unmaking, +2 Collective Brutality, +2 Surgical Extraction
(draw)
-1 Tasigur, -4 Thought Scour, -2 Countersquall
+2 Anguished Unmaking
+3 Threads of Disloyalty
+2 Collective Brutality
+2 Surgical Extraction
Vs Mardu Midrange
+3 Threads of Disloyalty
+2 Brutality
+1 Surgical
-2 Countersquall
-3 Path to Exile
-1 Dismember
Vs Dredge:
+3 Nihil Spellbomb
+2 Surgical Extraction
+3 Threads of Disloyalty (for Bloodghast)
+2 Anguished Unmaking (for Haunted Dead, Golgari Grave Troll)
+2 Collective Brutality (for Stinkweed Imp, Spirit Token)
-2 Thoughtseize
-4 Inquisition of Kozilek
-2 Dismember
-2 Disfigure
-2 Hero's Downfall
Vs Living End
+3 Nihil Spellbomb
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Collective Brutality
-2 Disfigure
-3 Dismember
-2 Hero's Downfall
Vs Grixis DelverControl
-2 Thoughtseize
-2 Disfigure
-1 Cryptic Command
+3 Nihil Spellbomb
+2 Collective Brutality
Vs Grixis Control
+1 Surgical Extraction
+2 Nihil Spellbomb
+2 Collective Brutality
-3 Path to Exile
-1 Disfigure
-1 Murderous Cut
Vs Eldrazi Tron
-3 Inquisition of Kozilek
-2 Disfigure
-2 Countersquall
-1 Cryptic Command
+3 Elspeth
+2 Anguished Unmaking
+3 Blessed Alliance
Vs RG TitanShift
-2 Disfigure
-2 Dismember
-1 Go for the Throat
+2 Collective Brutality
+3 Surgical Extraction
VS Martyr of Sands/ Serra's Avenger/Proclamation Rebirth Combo
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Damnation
+2 Nihil Spellbomb
+2 Murderous Cut
+2 Collective Brutality
-4 Lingering Souls
-3 Path to Exile
-2 Dismember
Vs Jeskai Nahiri Control
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Collective Brutality
+2 Nihil Spellbomb
-3 Path to Exile
-1 Disfigure
-2 Dismember
Vs UW Control
+2 Collective Brutality
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Anguished Unmaking
-3 Dismember
-2 Disfigure