Shoal + FoN have done a great job against hogaak deck. I end up with no gy hate main and only a surgical, a trap and an a return to nature in side. Pressure + permission have won more games than than games in which I see hate. Maybe I'm wrong, but for now I keep going like this...
Its not healthy to see 8 or 9 gy hate in people's 75.
Still wizards promotes a lot of graveyard interactions. I may see it becoming a routine in the future. We may be packing creatures removals and grave hate at the same rate. I don't like it much, but we shall adapt.
a) the deck can afford another graveyard based creature alongside Goyf and Mandrills,
b) Elvish Reclaimer can consistently be a 3/4 on turn two (and, if it’s not, Hexdrinker is better than this by miles),
c) we can make use of Blast Zone out of the board while playing low cc creatures ourselves,
d) 23 istant/sorcery can be even remotely the right path,
e) doing all of this is worth sacrificing turn 0 counterspells.
Honestly, the build looks cute, but it does little to none compared to where I want to be at in the current Modern.
Agree with you here.
Free counters have proven the best thing we can do. We finally have the chance to do something "unfair" we must exploit it.
I like hexdrinker very much since it keeps controls at bay all alone being more than decent against all other decks and (most important thing) it's not gy dependent. In a world of hogaak this is very important imho.
I can't wait to try both fry and veil of summer since both are very promising.
A bit unrelated.
Has anybody played against new Urza thopter sword? How's the match up? I feel it a strong deck, but I never faced it.
Well arcanist is quite good even in temur. It's a more aggro shell than grixis.
I'm interested too in knowing the results of @Aazadan tests: it's a pretty nice list. Keep us informed.
I love this thread so much because even though Monkey Grow isn’t even on MTGGoldfish’s metagame list anymore, this is still the most active thread in this Modern forum. I hope we find a way to continue this discourse!!
Some of us (for sure Blaze, Grindor and myself, sorry if I missed someone else) are already on a delver discord server (the one on which we have been invited by Grindor 11 some time ago). If we move "en masse" there we may be able to create a sub channel only for temur. In any case I'll keep posting here until I'm able.
And I'll wait also for "the new home" the mods have said are building. Maybe we can just continue there.
(Just please don't move to facebook. I know it's a very selfish request, but I don't have it and don't want to sign up there.)
Wizards said they see from data that there isn't much difference in the mw%, so I don't know how it can be said that it would be a disaster. They also said that if there will be a problem bans could address it.
One can complain about this policy, but surely it won't make modern fall.
I personally like the change for what is worth.
Hi, I don't post on here very often but observe from the sidelines but question: Why is everyone getting so pumped for 'Force of Negation' for our deck? All our opponent has to do is cast a kill spell on our turn and we can no longer use the exile mode of Force. Our deck needs for us to be able counter at low mana cost (0-1) to keep our creatures alive. Force is basically just a "Cancel" on our turn.
FoN is not for kill spell (even if it's still capable of counter them), but for opponents' non creature threats (PW or some other menace). At least this is my opinion. Hence I'm playing a shoal FoN split (3-2) and a leak stubborn split (3-2 again) for any other purpose.
I was thinking, in the meantime. What kind of advantage we have if we compare ourselves to a list such as this one? (it's a scratch, but keep reading please).
I mean, we're basically doing the same things (deploying a huge threat as soon as possible, then remove/counter/bounce everything. But we actually deal with Thing in the Ice as an easy task. We loot away useless cards in the maindeck against the opponent instead of sitting on Tarfire + Vapor Snag against Ad Nauseam. We deal with Death's Shadow quite confortably. We suffer Tron more maindeck, but it's not like Temur has far better chances (now that new Karn is part of the deck, I've been on a huge lose streak against them).
So, what's preventing us from migrating to Grixis - using the same concept of Monkey Grow?
We are slightly faster (we are more aggro than grixis and goyf is goyf), we support shoal better and most of all we support Moon. I don't migrate because it's too controllish for my taste. It could be stronger though. If moon and goyf are strong in the meta, we are strong otherwhise maybe other builds could be better.
Here's the new forum. It still lacks Temur delver. We can move there and let the RUG invasion begin. Hope to see you all up there.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Hexdrinker
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Tarfire
3 Vapor Snag
2 Mishra's Bauble
4 Serum Visions
3 Sleight of Hand
3 Thought Scour
3 Disrupting Shoal
2 Mana Leak
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Force of Negation
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Seasoned Pyromancer
1 Collector Ouphe
2 Blood Moon
1 Return to Nature
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Force of Negation
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Flame Slash
1 Pyroclasm
Agree with you here.
Free counters have proven the best thing we can do. We finally have the chance to do something "unfair" we must exploit it.
I like hexdrinker very much since it keeps controls at bay all alone being more than decent against all other decks and (most important thing) it's not gy dependent. In a world of hogaak this is very important imho.
I can't wait to try both fry and veil of summer since both are very promising.
A bit unrelated.
Has anybody played against new Urza thopter sword? How's the match up? I feel it a strong deck, but I never faced it.
I'm interested too in knowing the results of @Aazadan tests: it's a pretty nice list. Keep us informed.
And can't wait to know what it is.
Just give us the same color in chat so it's easier to understand better which deck are you talking about.
Here it is Grindor's post with the link.
Just don't forget to join "temur ranks".
Some of us (for sure Blaze, Grindor and myself, sorry if I missed someone else) are already on a delver discord server (the one on which we have been invited by Grindor 11 some time ago). If we move "en masse" there we may be able to create a sub channel only for temur. In any case I'll keep posting here until I'm able.
And I'll wait also for "the new home" the mods have said are building. Maybe we can just continue there.
(Just please don't move to facebook. I know it's a very selfish request, but I don't have it and don't want to sign up there.)
One can complain about this policy, but surely it won't make modern fall.
I personally like the change for what is worth.
More tests are needed, but it may be worth.
FoN is not for kill spell (even if it's still capable of counter them), but for opponents' non creature threats (PW or some other menace). At least this is my opinion. Hence I'm playing a shoal FoN split (3-2) and a leak stubborn split (3-2 again) for any other purpose.
We are slightly faster (we are more aggro than grixis and goyf is goyf), we support shoal better and most of all we support Moon. I don't migrate because it's too controllish for my taste. It could be stronger though. If moon and goyf are strong in the meta, we are strong otherwhise maybe other builds could be better.