Once more, not surprised to see Ajani show up. He was a great guy to have back when I played Standard, so you may not be far off on your statement of him fitting more into 60 card decks, or duel EDH even.
I would have thought Caller of Beer would be higher, honestly...sure, 6 mana is an investment, but it's one that green can easily pay, and getting more and more creatures into play is all a part of the gameplan. I'll assess my own deck and use of CoB, but that's a ranking I contest a bit.
Undoubtedly true, but that's an argument to be made for ANY cards, not just planeswalkers in general.
Cards can be suggested to improve a deck, but depending on the playgroup perspective(to use a parallel), things change around that value. Competitive groups that prep for side events at PTGs would ranks cards vastly different than a pauper EDH group.
I think DtDB is trying his best to keep things as flexible as possible for each planeswalker in an effort to justify the rankings(i.e., "Sarkhan's useful in 10% of situations, but Jace is useful 75% of the time"). Thus far, one must admit that the walkers listed have a pretty narrow range of effectiveness, particularly with what still have to be ranked.
Seeing Ral Zarek this soon saddened me, but I'm biased, since I often get three or more turns from him when people forget to stop his ultimate(true story).
NOT surprised to see Elspeth 2.0...that was a weak incarnation, honestly.
I don't think there's a particular 'strategy' that I dislike. As some have posited, it's often more specific players(this one guy I used to EDH with played ONLY Momir Vig decked to the nines with UG goodstuffs), or specific actions.
One guy played Smallpox on his second turn during an MP EDH game for example, and was hated out that round. He kept laughing and asking what he did wrong...facepalm was the order of the day there.
Sometimes I just get irritated by d*** good draw fortune. One of my deck's earlier incarnations ran face first into a turn 3 Azorius Guildmage. Guess what most of my critters and such relied on in that deck? >.<
Generally speaking though, I and my groups subscribe to the philosophy of, "EDH: it's like a pillow fight. Until someone brings out a chainsaw." As long as that chainsaw doesn't come out too quickly or the same way every time, it's always amusing.
Lose the outpost and put Boros Garrison in instead. The bounce effect is more reasonable at all times as opposed to saccing a land that you may need early game. Glory of Warfare can provide off/def as needed; if nothing else, that extra damage you seem to enjoy. Boros Battleshaper won't win you many friends, but if you can remember to use its triggers, it's BEYOND fun to have a direct influence on every combat step. True, you have Sean Connery, but this can cover a little bit more ground if you don't have him and three others out, specifically if Sean gets replaced...
with Odrich, Lunarch Marshal. How'd you like to have a whole line of vigilant flyers? Indestructible hexproofers? All of the above? Purphoros, God of the Forge is one I'm surprised isn't here. Given the number of ETB weenies you have, he'd be a possible win-con by himself.
Finally(though this may be too pricey to get, keep an eye out for it), FaF is fun with your Hellkite Charger. Let me know when you see it...;)
Also, a caveat: watch out for Angel of Jubilation's passive...that will hurt you as much as it will hurt your opponents(for instance, Frontline Medic and Burnished Hart can't do what they're meant to)
I'm a fan of Unbender Tine in my Merieke deck. It untaps Merieke, provide mana as needed, and plays a role in various combos.
This, OP. Everyone's experiences will be different, but Tine is not to be discounted. Check mine and Incanur's Merieke decks in our signatures for some ideas in not only untapping creatures as necessary, but also untapping Tine.
"What's mine is mine,
and mine and mine,
and mine and mine and mine,
NOT YOURS!"
- Orange Lantern Corps slogan(DC comics)
I had debated which deck to post next, and seeing as Niv and Captain Sisay are on the front page right now, I thought I'd go with Merieke, seeing as she hasn't had a thread since June 2016.
Merieke lends herself to a particular style of play at first glance, and as she evolved from my first EDH deck, I saw no reason to mess with success, only to build on her style; that is, creature denial, and more if I can get away with it. I'll stretch myself a bit more on writing about Merieke and why stuff made it into the deck versus my previous one(seen here).
Some of the stuff that might seem out of place in this deck: Palisade Giant - primarily damage control and a prime target for Darksteel Plate when I can get that tutored up. 6 CMC is a bit of an investment, but usually that's when damage(from combat or other sources) starts to become a problem. Forcing them to exile/counter this roadblock can save Merieke or yourself from fatal damage.
For now, that's all I have...it's a pretty solid deck I think, and people really don't like seeing a 3 CMC thief on the board so early, lol. Input?
EDIT: Really changed this into a 'pillowfort with your own stuff' deck. Many aspects of this deck are geared toward preventing the casting of commanders, stealing of good creatures, and if needed, a scorched earth pre-emptive strike. I wonder if Jester's Cap would be a good fit for this deck as well?
Even while I was looking at that thread, it kept making my head asplode. lol However, I finally get it, and will have my future EDH decks done in the correct style from the start, so thanks!
That DOES seem to be a problem that I run into now and again. The flip side of it was running into having NO fatties for Mayael to ETB mid-game, which doesn't help me either. I'm thinking Sarkhan, Domri, and the Tarkir dragons will have to go, then...and I'll have to see what weenies I can put in.
EDIT: Adjusted one more time for some weenies. Probably could/should add more, but I'll need to see who else should be on the chopping block beforehand.
Liking more. It feels more like a media article than a firm(even harsh) op-ed. Facts are presented, your conclusions are stated, and you acknowledge that "they may have a home, but not in the decks I've seen/played". Excellent work.
Actually was completely unaware of Kaya, and I THINK I may have an EDH home for her. When I get her in there and put her through the paces, I might have more info.
Chandra Firebrand needs to be in my Niv deck(even though turns aren't the HUGE draw).
Wanted to start off by saying that I loved seeing how you developed this deck, even how you started it. When I developed my own Niv 1.0 deck(which I'll post eventually, so if you have time, your insight on my interpretations of this theme would be wonderful), I felt the same: Curiosity/Ophidian Eye/Mind over Matter/Tandem Lookout(everybody always forgets that guy, lol) just didn't strike me as 'fair'. Evolution went from 'draw and beats' all the way to its current incarnation of 'draw ALL the cards, and you have nothing to say!'.
As tuned as my deck is, your interpretations also help me look at stuff to put in for the funsies you seem to experience(I'm sure we could both swap stories).
Two suggestions that I have in my deck that are worth noting(one that may be bonkers for you to include, one not so much...). Apologies if these have been discussed earlier - I admit to some skimming in the previous pages: Spellskite - People run destruction and boost spells a lot, and having an on-demand Redirect can ruin their day instantly(pun intended). Seeing as you are running Vedalken Orrery as well, you just increased your flexibility. Maybe you can, but I just don't see a downside of having a 2 drop, Redirect, especially since it keeps resources free. Myojin of Seeing Winds - Now, stay with me on this(believe me, I balk at the CMC too, and I run it! lol). Read the benefit you get from casting it: the divinity counter. That's an immediate benefit right there. Barring counter shenanigans, popping that counter grants you 11 cards on average(Myojin himself plus the lands, for argument sake); that provides a lot of answers/card draw, and a lot of damage in short order. To be perfectly fair though, it's a rare card to use; I myself would only justify using it when I have multiple extra turns(Twincasted and Forked Beacon of Tomorrows, for instance) ready to go. But 'living on the edge' doesn't get much better than seeing this juicy big blue button just begging to be pushed...lol
I find it rather humorous at times when people freak out at seeing my general(Merieke in this case), are unable to do much about it, and then someone not only takes care of my general, but unloads on the rest of them for big beats/disruption. Everybody experiences a different group and plays differently, but I spent 4-5 rounds with Merieke just sitting there; partly because yes there was nothing to steal, but also because no one was being degenerate yet. Oh well...
Not too surprised myself on the updated ones, but partly because THOSE 'walkers I don't jive with mentally. If you bother following my EDH decklists(in the multiplayer section), you might see them in my decks, but often they're there for durdles, or because they kinda-sorta go with the theme(Dragonspeaker went in to replace Vol, and now they might BOTH end up in the deck thanks to the dragon creep coming in).
Usually can filter out the 'YT seasoning' that is being mentioned, so that doesn't bother me yet, but if you can, keep it reigned in.
Glad to see that I'm not alone in my thoughts with Ablaze either...I felt really proud of seeing her work out in my "I draw ALL the cards!" Niv deck.
Okay, so...first decklist on this forum. Got 5 decks total, but I'm going to space them out to let the forum breathe. Anyway, first up is probably a common one...suggestions/critiques/comments are welcome, though I've got a straight up plan for the land-base, so you can skip that. This and most of my other decks will be more 'casual to competitive', able to swap as needed.
I would contest Chandra Ablaze being THIS low. The CMC is horrible and her first two abilities are meh, but she has more usage outside of mono-red. I have her in my Niv 1.0 deck, and she can often provide a little nudge for me to take home the win(minus ability for a few more cards, which might be spells for me to draw even more, etc).
The others are quite understandable...I'd completely forgotten about Nissa 1.0, and good LORD, is she poor. Ajani 1.0(one of my standard favorites back in the day) also is hideous to behold any more.
Okay...first post here, obviously newcomer to the forum.
Played M:TG on and off since 4th Ed/Fallen Empires, played EDH exclusively since the start of Innistrad 1.0. I'm old enough to remember mana burn, and young enough to still follow most of how cards interact degenerately with each other.
Love playing video games(mostly last gen/retro), hate snow(even though my state is shaped like winter apparel, lol), and look forward to interacting with my fellow planeswalkers.
I would have thought Caller of Beer would be higher, honestly...sure, 6 mana is an investment, but it's one that green can easily pay, and getting more and more creatures into play is all a part of the gameplan. I'll assess my own deck and use of CoB, but that's a ranking I contest a bit.
Cards can be suggested to improve a deck, but depending on the playgroup perspective(to use a parallel), things change around that value. Competitive groups that prep for side events at PTGs would ranks cards vastly different than a pauper EDH group.
I think DtDB is trying his best to keep things as flexible as possible for each planeswalker in an effort to justify the rankings(i.e., "Sarkhan's useful in 10% of situations, but Jace is useful 75% of the time"). Thus far, one must admit that the walkers listed have a pretty narrow range of effectiveness, particularly with what still have to be ranked.
NOT surprised to see Elspeth 2.0...that was a weak incarnation, honestly.
One guy played Smallpox on his second turn during an MP EDH game for example, and was hated out that round. He kept laughing and asking what he did wrong...facepalm was the order of the day there.
Sometimes I just get irritated by d*** good draw fortune. One of my deck's earlier incarnations ran face first into a turn 3 Azorius Guildmage. Guess what most of my critters and such relied on in that deck? >.<
Generally speaking though, I and my groups subscribe to the philosophy of, "EDH: it's like a pillow fight. Until someone brings out a chainsaw." As long as that chainsaw doesn't come out too quickly or the same way every time, it's always amusing.
Glory of Warfare can provide off/def as needed; if nothing else, that extra damage you seem to enjoy.
Boros Battleshaper won't win you many friends, but if you can remember to use its triggers, it's BEYOND fun to have a direct influence on every combat step. True, you have Sean Connery, but this can cover a little bit more ground if you don't have him and three others out, specifically if Sean gets replaced...
with Odrich, Lunarch Marshal. How'd you like to have a whole line of vigilant flyers? Indestructible hexproofers? All of the above?
Purphoros, God of the Forge is one I'm surprised isn't here. Given the number of ETB weenies you have, he'd be a possible win-con by himself.
Finally(though this may be too pricey to get, keep an eye out for it), FaF is fun with your Hellkite Charger. Let me know when you see it...;)
Also, a caveat: watch out for Angel of Jubilation's passive...that will hurt you as much as it will hurt your opponents(for instance, Frontline Medic and Burnished Hart can't do what they're meant to)
This, OP. Everyone's experiences will be different, but Tine is not to be discounted. Check mine and Incanur's Merieke decks in our signatures for some ideas in not only untapping creatures as necessary, but also untapping Tine.
and mine and mine,
and mine and mine and mine,
NOT YOURS!"
- Orange Lantern Corps slogan(DC comics)
I had debated which deck to post next, and seeing as Niv and Captain Sisay are on the front page right now, I thought I'd go with Merieke, seeing as she hasn't had a thread since June 2016.
Merieke lends herself to a particular style of play at first glance, and as she evolved from my first EDH deck, I saw no reason to mess with success, only to build on her style; that is, creature denial, and more if I can get away with it. I'll stretch myself a bit more on writing about Merieke and why stuff made it into the deck versus my previous one(seen here).
3 Merieke Ri Berit
Creatures(16)
3 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
2 Meddling Mage
3 Daxos of Meletis
3 Galvanic Alchemist
5 Guardian of the Gateless
6 Aegis Angel
6 Sun Titan
3 Dominating Licid
3 Captain of the Mists
6 Palisade Giant
4 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
2 Wall of Omens
7 Sepulchral Primordial
6 Adarkar Valkyrie
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Guard Gomazoa
Planeswalkers/Enchantments(16)
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Solemnity
1 Crab Umbra
3 Pemmin's Aura
3 Gift of Immortality
5 Treachery
3 False Demise
4 Control Magic
8 Decree of Silence
2 Aegis of the Gods
3 Freed from the Real
3 Nevermore
4 Gideon's Intervention
4 Steal Artifact
6 Enslave
6 Volition Reins
5 Conjurer's Closet
3 Darksteel Plate
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Expedition Map
1 Sol Ring
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Puppet Strings
3 Thousand-Year Elixir
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
6 Soul of New Phyrexia
2 Spellskite
1 Voyager Staff
6 Duplicant
Spells(14)
3 Vindicate
2 Demonic Tutor
1 Reanimate
5 Beacon of Unrest
4 Wrath of God
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Cyclonic Rift
1 Swords to Plowshares
6 Merciless Eviction
3 Mortify
1 Cloudshift
3 Ghostly Flicker
3 Sadistic Sacrament
5 Unburial Rites
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Temple of Silence
1 Nimbus Maze
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Prairie Stream
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Buried Ruin
1 Sejiri Refuge
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple of the False God
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Command Tower
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Dismal Backwater
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
5 Plains
3 Island
6 Swamp
Some of the stuff that might seem out of place in this deck:
Palisade Giant - primarily damage control and a prime target for Darksteel Plate when I can get that tutored up. 6 CMC is a bit of an investment, but usually that's when damage(from combat or other sources) starts to become a problem. Forcing them to exile/counter this roadblock can save Merieke or yourself from fatal damage.
For now, that's all I have...it's a pretty solid deck I think, and people really don't like seeing a 3 CMC thief on the board so early, lol. Input?
EDIT: Really changed this into a 'pillowfort with your own stuff' deck. Many aspects of this deck are geared toward preventing the casting of commanders, stealing of good creatures, and if needed, a scorched earth pre-emptive strike. I wonder if Jester's Cap would be a good fit for this deck as well?
That DOES seem to be a problem that I run into now and again. The flip side of it was running into having NO fatties for Mayael to ETB mid-game, which doesn't help me either. I'm thinking Sarkhan, Domri, and the Tarkir dragons will have to go, then...and I'll have to see what weenies I can put in.
EDIT: Adjusted one more time for some weenies. Probably could/should add more, but I'll need to see who else should be on the chopping block beforehand.
Actually was completely unaware of Kaya, and I THINK I may have an EDH home for her. When I get her in there and put her through the paces, I might have more info.
Chandra Firebrand needs to be in my Niv deck(even though turns aren't the HUGE draw).
As tuned as my deck is, your interpretations also help me look at stuff to put in for the funsies you seem to experience(I'm sure we could both swap stories).
Two suggestions that I have in my deck that are worth noting(one that may be bonkers for you to include, one not so much...). Apologies if these have been discussed earlier - I admit to some skimming in the previous pages:
Spellskite - People run destruction and boost spells a lot, and having an on-demand Redirect can ruin their day instantly(pun intended). Seeing as you are running Vedalken Orrery as well, you just increased your flexibility. Maybe you can, but I just don't see a downside of having a 2 drop, Redirect, especially since it keeps resources free.
Myojin of Seeing Winds - Now, stay with me on this(believe me, I balk at the CMC too, and I run it! lol). Read the benefit you get from casting it: the divinity counter. That's an immediate benefit right there. Barring counter shenanigans, popping that counter grants you 11 cards on average(Myojin himself plus the lands, for argument sake); that provides a lot of answers/card draw, and a lot of damage in short order. To be perfectly fair though, it's a rare card to use; I myself would only justify using it when I have multiple extra turns(Twincasted and Forked Beacon of Tomorrows, for instance) ready to go. But 'living on the edge' doesn't get much better than seeing this juicy big blue button just begging to be pushed...lol
I find it rather humorous at times when people freak out at seeing my general(Merieke in this case), are unable to do much about it, and then someone not only takes care of my general, but unloads on the rest of them for big beats/disruption. Everybody experiences a different group and plays differently, but I spent 4-5 rounds with Merieke just sitting there; partly because yes there was nothing to steal, but also because no one was being degenerate yet. Oh well...
Usually can filter out the 'YT seasoning' that is being mentioned, so that doesn't bother me yet, but if you can, keep it reigned in.
Glad to see that I'm not alone in my thoughts with Ablaze either...I felt really proud of seeing her work out in my "I draw ALL the cards!" Niv deck.
3 Mayael the Anima
Creatures(30)
7 Angel of Serenity
4 Elvish Piper
7 Protean Hulk
6 Inferno Titan
4 Vizier of the Menagerie
3 Flickerwisp
8 Platinum Emperion
2 Grand Abolisher
7 Omnath, Locus of Rage
9 Blazing Archon
8 Terastodon
5 Thicket Elemental
11 Worldspine Wurm
7 Engulfing Slagwurm
4 Wall of Reverence
4 Iroas, God of Victory
6 Meglonoth
5 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
5 Xenagos, God of Revels
6 Steel Hellkite
8 Craterhoof Behemoth
11 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
9 Void Winnower
2 Imposing Sovereign
6 Combustible Gearhulk
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Magus of the Vineyard
7 Angelic Arbiter
6 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Fleecemane Lion
4 Defense of the Heart
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Aura Shards
4 Impromptu Raid
5 Asceticism
1 Carpet of Flowers
3 Fires of Yavimaya
5 Where Ancients Tread
5 Mirari's Wake
7 Zendikar Resurgent
Spells(15)
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Harrow
7 Tooth and Nail
9 Blasphemous Act
2 Boros Charm
4 Harmonize
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Clan Defiance
3 Krosan Grip
2 Hull Breach
4 Decimate
5 Primal Command
6 See the Unwritten
4 Return to Dust
4 Tempt with Discovery
Artifacts(7)
4 Quicksilver Amulet
1 Pyramid of the Pantheon
0 Mana Crypt
2 Illusionist's Bracers
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sol Ring
1 Gruul Turf
1 Canopy Vista
1 Naya Panorama
1 Krosan Verge
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Boros Garrison
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Graypelt Refuge
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Kazandu Refuge
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Rugged Highlands
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Temple of the False God
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Cinder Glade
3 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Forest
The others are quite understandable...I'd completely forgotten about Nissa 1.0, and good LORD, is she poor. Ajani 1.0(one of my standard favorites back in the day) also is hideous to behold any more.
Played M:TG on and off since 4th Ed/Fallen Empires, played EDH exclusively since the start of Innistrad 1.0. I'm old enough to remember mana burn, and young enough to still follow most of how cards interact degenerately with each other.
Love playing video games(mostly last gen/retro), hate snow(even though my state is shaped like winter apparel, lol), and look forward to interacting with my fellow planeswalkers.
*fist bumps for all*