Thank you. That second thread mentioned using Blessing of Leeches to prevent Coalhauler Swine from dying before my opponent dies. How would that actually work? Would I have to calculate how many loops it will take to kill my opponent(s), and activate Blessing of Leeches that many times in advance to prevent the pig from dying and breaking the loop? If my opponent uses targeted removal on the pig while the loop is still on the stack, would Coalhauler Swine die before the loop kills my opponent?
The source is the Prodigal Sorcerer, and its controller is the opponent. The opponent gets a poison counter.
Thanks, that's very helpful. Here's a similar possibility that occurred to me which I'm still haven't managed to figure out:
Suppose that my opponent's Prodigal Sorcerer would deal 1 damage to me. I have a Coalhauler Swine equipped with Pariah's Shield. Does this instantly kill my opponent? (And all other opponents if I'm playing commander?) Or does it just collapse the space-time continuum?
Since lands have a mana value of zero, I'd expect that Sisay, Weatherlight Captain can tutor for legendary lands (without a power boost). Just want to make sure that this is the case.
With Maskwood Nexus, Conspiracy, or Arcane Adaptation in play, I would like to use Scion of the Ur-Dragon's ability to tutor for Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. I think I can do this, but I want to make sure. Kozilek will return to my library with the rest of its contents when my graveyard is shuffled back into my library, but it does go to the library before that happens, doesn't it?
My question concerns whether or not it's possible to get priority, and cast a spell that partially restores one's life total, after exchanging life for card draw using a card like Necrologia or Necropotence. Presumably, these only give you cards during your end step in order to discourage players from using one of the cards they just drew to restore their life total. However, rule 514.3 mentions special circumstances in which the active player gets priority during the cleanup step. I've read the rule, but I don't understand it.
There are several cards, like Relic Ward, that say that you may cast them as though they had flash, but if you cast them any time that a sorcery couldn't have been cast, you must sacrifice the permanent at the beginning of the next cleanup step. Can casting a card with that sort of triggered ability during one's turn set one up to get priority during the cleanup step-- for the purpose of casting an instant that one just drew (eg. using Necrologia) which restores one's life total?
I think I know the answer to this question, but I will ask it anyway to confirm that I'm not mistaken. If I were to substitute Panoptic Mirror for Eye of the Storm in this combo, imprinting Approach of the Second Sun on Panoptic Mirror, and later targeting Panoptic Mirror with Fractured Identity-- would my opponents' copies of Panoptic Mirror allow them to cast Approach? Panoptic Mirror's Oracle text reads, “At the beginning of your upkeep, you may copy a card exiled with Panoptic Mirror. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.”
I believe that "exiled with Panoptic Mirror" means exiled with YOUR copy of Panoptic Mirror, not with any Panoptic Mirror. Is that correct?
You are the one that has cast the Aproach, so you are the one getting the copy. Nothing in Eye's text lets any other player get a copy, only the player who casts the spell that triggered the Eye gets copies of everything within. Who controls the Eye is irrelevant, it works the same for everyone under any player's control.
I see. I didn't read Eye of the Storm's ability carefully enough and assumed that if all of the Eye's trigger, all of the Eyes would make a copy. I now understand that, even though all of the Eyes trigger and one of them exiles Approach of the Second Sun, none of my opponents' Eyes can copy Approach.
Your opening scenario is also off. If you cast Fractured Identity while an Eye of the Storm is out, it will get exiled before it has a chance to resolve. You supposedly have the only copy of the Eye at that time, so the Identity is exiled by that and you are given a copy to cast (along with copies of any other instant and sorcery currently exiled by the Eye). So you essentially cast a second Fractured Identity, which gets to resolve because Eye only cares about cards not copies of them. Each other player now gets an emptyEye of the Storm and whatever cards were exiled by your Eye stay in exile, unreachable by any of the cards mentioned in this thread.
If you then cast Approach of the Second Sun, all Eyes will trigger, and the last trigger to go on the stack will get to exile it, which is the copy controlled by the player next to you furthest away in turn order. You get a copy of the Approach now to cast. If it resolves, you get to place the copy into your library, where it will cease to exist shortly thereafter. All other Eye triggers still on the stack do nothing.
Thank you, Peteroupc, for pointing out the fact that Approach of the Second Sun requires casting from the hand to win the game. I originally knew that, but forgot. Ironically, the fact that none of the players can win the game using copies made with Eye of the Storm actually makes the combo work better than I had hoped. So, this analysis is worth continuing...
To make sure that I've correctly understood your explanation, Rezzahan, I'm going to paraphrase it.
I cast Eye of the Storm. After it has resolved, I cast Fractured Identity targeting Eye of the storm. Eye of the Storm’s ability will exile Fractured Identity before it has a chance to resolve. My Eye of the Storm then gives me a copy of Fractured Identity to cast, if I want, along with a copy of any other instants that are currently exiled by Eye of the Storm. The copy of Fractured Identity created by Eye of the Storm resolves successfully because Eye of the Storm will only exile a physical card, not a copy.
Since the copy of Fractured Identity that Eye of the Storm created resolves successfully, it destroys my Eye of the Storm, and each other player now gets a copy of Eye of the Storm. However, my opponents’ copies of Eye of the Storm have no history of any instants or sorceries ever being cast. Since my Eye of the Storm is now in exile, none of the spells that were exiled by it are accessible by any of the permanents that are currently in play.
I now cast Approach of the Second Sun from my hand. All of my opponents’ copies of Eye of the Storm trigger, and the last trigger to go on the stack will get to exile the card. This is the copy controlled by the player next to me furthest away in turn order. Since this copy of Eye exiles Approach, the physical card won't go to my library. Only the copy of the card which is on the stack will go to my library, and it will cease to exist shortly after.
Assuming that the above is correct. Here's where I require clarification:
You say that all other Eye of the Storm triggers on the stack do nothing (because Eye is only triggered by physical cards, and the physical Approach of the Second Sun card has been exiled). Here's my question: The last trigger of Eye of the Storm to go on the stack exiles Approach of the Second Sun. That trigger, being last on the stack, will resolve first. This trigger just exiled the physical Approach card, so doesn't it get to make a copy of that card for it's controller to cast? Eye of the Storm says, "Whenever a player plays an instant or sorcery card, remove it from the game. Then that player copies each instant or sorcery card removed from the game with Eye of the Storm..." I would expect that at least one of my opponents gets a copy of Approach that they can cast. What am I missing?
In a multiplayer game, suppose that I have Eye of the Storm in play and I cast Fractured Identity, targeting Eye of the Storm. What happens if I cast then Approach of the Second Sun? My copy of Eye of the Storm has been exiled, but each of my opponents has a copy. I have already achieved my first casting of Approach, and the card is placed in my library seventh from the top. I assume that my opponents can now cast any instant or sorcery spell and use their copy of Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach of the Second Sun, since I cast the spell with a physical card (that was removed from the game). (Copies made with Eye of the Storm, like copies made with Isochron Scepter, can be cast, and Approach requires casting.)
I'd like to know how my opponents' copies of Eye of the Storm would work. Until one of my opponents casts an instant or sorcery spell, I am the only one who has successfully cast Approach of the Second Sun. I believe that, as soon as one of my opponents casts an instant or sorcery spell, they will be able to copy and cast Approach, gaining their first successful casting of Approach. Let's say that Opponent A successfully does this. Opponent A has now successfully cast Approach once.
Let's consider a few possible scenarios:
1) Opponent B then casts an instant using their own token copy of Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach of the Second Sun. Does Opponent B get a single copy of Approach? Or two, winning the game, since Approach has been cast twice? Since Eye of the Storm says that players can copy and cast CARDS exiled with Eye of the Storm, I expect that Opponent B only gets to copy and cast Approach a single time, not twice. I expect that Opponent A's casting of Approach doesn't count since it wasn't hard cast from a physical card. Is that correct?
2) Suppose that before my opponents can cast another spell, I manage to steal one of their token copies of Eye of the Storm and cast an instant. Can I then copy and cast Approach for a second time to win the game? Or does the stolen copy of Eye of the Storm not work this way? Suppose that, instead of stealing an opponent's Eye of the Storm, I manage to retrieve mine from exile. If I then cast some unrelated instant, can I use the retrieved Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach for a second time, winning the game? Or does the retrieved card not work that way?
For each copy of Approach of the Second Sun, since the copy wasn't cast (whether from a player's hand or otherwise), all the copy does is go to "its owner's library seventh from the top" (which generally has no practical effect since the copy will cease to exist soon after [C.R. 704.5e]) and give its controller 7 life. (Under C.R. 706.10, the owner of a copy of a spell is usually the same player as its controller.)
I think I generally understand now, but there are still a couple of points that I'm not clear on. (I appreciate your patience.)
Here's the point that I think I'm most unclear about. The text written on Approach of the Second Sun says, "... put Approach of the Second Sun into its owner's library seventh from the top and you gain 7 life."
Approach of the Second Sun isn't a permanent. It's just a physical sorcery card. I OWN the physical sorcery card, but my opponent doesn't. Is that the key point here? I have a spell on the stack just like my opponent, and my spell on the stack will shortly cease to exist, too, just like my opponent's spell on the stack. When my opponent's copy of the spell implements the text that is written on the physical card, a copy of a non-physical spell is placed in their library seventh from the top. Why isn't the physical card or a token or proxy copy of the physical card placed in my opponent's library? I get a physical card in my library, and my opponent gets a non-physical spell placed in their library. Is this because my opponent owns the copy of the spell that Hive Mind makes but doesn't own the physical card?
I understand that Hive Mind copies the spell for my opponent, but my opponent's copy of the spell says to put Approach of the Second Sun into my opponent's library, not HIS COPY of Approach of the Second Sun, but Approach of the Second Sun, into his library. Why does "Approach of the Second Sun" mean the physical card for me, and the non-physical spell on the stack for my opponent? That's not intuitively clear to me. Note, I'm not challenging the rules or anything. I'm just trying to understand how the mechanics of the game work. So that I know how to read a Magic card and implement what it says intuitively in the future.
Suppose that my opponent's Prodigal Sorcerer would deal 1 damage to me. I have a Coalhauler Swine equipped with Pariah's Shield. Does this instantly kill my opponent? (And all other opponents if I'm playing commander?) Or does it just collapse the space-time continuum?
There are several cards, like Relic Ward, that say that you may cast them as though they had flash, but if you cast them any time that a sorcery couldn't have been cast, you must sacrifice the permanent at the beginning of the next cleanup step. Can casting a card with that sort of triggered ability during one's turn set one up to get priority during the cleanup step-- for the purpose of casting an instant that one just drew (eg. using Necrologia) which restores one's life total?
I believe that "exiled with Panoptic Mirror" means exiled with YOUR copy of Panoptic Mirror, not with any Panoptic Mirror. Is that correct?
Thank you for clarifying this for me!
To make sure that I've correctly understood your explanation, Rezzahan, I'm going to paraphrase it.
I cast Eye of the Storm. After it has resolved, I cast Fractured Identity targeting Eye of the storm. Eye of the Storm’s ability will exile Fractured Identity before it has a chance to resolve. My Eye of the Storm then gives me a copy of Fractured Identity to cast, if I want, along with a copy of any other instants that are currently exiled by Eye of the Storm. The copy of Fractured Identity created by Eye of the Storm resolves successfully because Eye of the Storm will only exile a physical card, not a copy.
Since the copy of Fractured Identity that Eye of the Storm created resolves successfully, it destroys my Eye of the Storm, and each other player now gets a copy of Eye of the Storm. However, my opponents’ copies of Eye of the Storm have no history of any instants or sorceries ever being cast. Since my Eye of the Storm is now in exile, none of the spells that were exiled by it are accessible by any of the permanents that are currently in play.
I now cast Approach of the Second Sun from my hand. All of my opponents’ copies of Eye of the Storm trigger, and the last trigger to go on the stack will get to exile the card. This is the copy controlled by the player next to me furthest away in turn order. Since this copy of Eye exiles Approach, the physical card won't go to my library. Only the copy of the card which is on the stack will go to my library, and it will cease to exist shortly after.
Assuming that the above is correct. Here's where I require clarification:
You say that all other Eye of the Storm triggers on the stack do nothing (because Eye is only triggered by physical cards, and the physical Approach of the Second Sun card has been exiled). Here's my question: The last trigger of Eye of the Storm to go on the stack exiles Approach of the Second Sun. That trigger, being last on the stack, will resolve first. This trigger just exiled the physical Approach card, so doesn't it get to make a copy of that card for it's controller to cast? Eye of the Storm says, "Whenever a player plays an instant or sorcery card, remove it from the game. Then that player copies each instant or sorcery card removed from the game with Eye of the Storm..." I would expect that at least one of my opponents gets a copy of Approach that they can cast. What am I missing?
In a multiplayer game, suppose that I have Eye of the Storm in play and I cast Fractured Identity, targeting Eye of the Storm. What happens if I cast then Approach of the Second Sun? My copy of Eye of the Storm has been exiled, but each of my opponents has a copy. I have already achieved my first casting of Approach, and the card is placed in my library seventh from the top. I assume that my opponents can now cast any instant or sorcery spell and use their copy of Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach of the Second Sun, since I cast the spell with a physical card (that was removed from the game). (Copies made with Eye of the Storm, like copies made with Isochron Scepter, can be cast, and Approach requires casting.)
I'd like to know how my opponents' copies of Eye of the Storm would work. Until one of my opponents casts an instant or sorcery spell, I am the only one who has successfully cast Approach of the Second Sun. I believe that, as soon as one of my opponents casts an instant or sorcery spell, they will be able to copy and cast Approach, gaining their first successful casting of Approach. Let's say that Opponent A successfully does this. Opponent A has now successfully cast Approach once.
Let's consider a few possible scenarios:
1) Opponent B then casts an instant using their own token copy of Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach of the Second Sun. Does Opponent B get a single copy of Approach? Or two, winning the game, since Approach has been cast twice? Since Eye of the Storm says that players can copy and cast CARDS exiled with Eye of the Storm, I expect that Opponent B only gets to copy and cast Approach a single time, not twice. I expect that Opponent A's casting of Approach doesn't count since it wasn't hard cast from a physical card. Is that correct?
2) Suppose that before my opponents can cast another spell, I manage to steal one of their token copies of Eye of the Storm and cast an instant. Can I then copy and cast Approach for a second time to win the game? Or does the stolen copy of Eye of the Storm not work this way? Suppose that, instead of stealing an opponent's Eye of the Storm, I manage to retrieve mine from exile. If I then cast some unrelated instant, can I use the retrieved Eye of the Storm to copy and cast Approach for a second time, winning the game? Or does the retrieved card not work that way?
Here's the point that I think I'm most unclear about. The text written on Approach of the Second Sun says, "... put Approach of the Second Sun into its owner's library seventh from the top and you gain 7 life."
Approach of the Second Sun isn't a permanent. It's just a physical sorcery card. I OWN the physical sorcery card, but my opponent doesn't. Is that the key point here? I have a spell on the stack just like my opponent, and my spell on the stack will shortly cease to exist, too, just like my opponent's spell on the stack. When my opponent's copy of the spell implements the text that is written on the physical card, a copy of a non-physical spell is placed in their library seventh from the top. Why isn't the physical card or a token or proxy copy of the physical card placed in my opponent's library? I get a physical card in my library, and my opponent gets a non-physical spell placed in their library. Is this because my opponent owns the copy of the spell that Hive Mind makes but doesn't own the physical card?
I understand that Hive Mind copies the spell for my opponent, but my opponent's copy of the spell says to put Approach of the Second Sun into my opponent's library, not HIS COPY of Approach of the Second Sun, but Approach of the Second Sun, into his library. Why does "Approach of the Second Sun" mean the physical card for me, and the non-physical spell on the stack for my opponent? That's not intuitively clear to me. Note, I'm not challenging the rules or anything. I'm just trying to understand how the mechanics of the game work. So that I know how to read a Magic card and implement what it says intuitively in the future.