Let’s say I shave down to 4 such effects (1 Purphoros, 3 Tremors). My first thought is to add the 8th Soul Sister and the third Copter; my second thought is to try out a pair of Thraben Inspectors. Either way, I’m adding a little more emphasis to the draw/filter aspect of the deck, which does seem necessary.
Giving this thread its first post of 2018, as I’m thinking of tossing Norin Sisters together. The way I see it—and my perspective is very much not steeped in experience, so correct me if I’m wrong—this deck can be built three major ways: 1) Human tribal subtheme; 2) all in on EtB effects; 3) a happy medium between the two with something like Ajani’s Pridemate involved.
With that in mind, I’m leaning toward going all in on the EtBs. Here’s the list I drew up:
Any thoughts on this as a starting point? I love the Spirit Bonds tech mentioned upthread, but one is the most I’d want to see in most games, so I think it’s fine as a one-of. Same goes for Moon: if it catches someone, fine, and if not, there aren’t too many slots committed to it.
I also love Thraben Inspector, but there just doesn’t seem to be room for a playset. Two could be squeezed in (perhaps for a Tremors and a Sister?), but that may be too cute for a jumping-off point in terms of getting reps in with the deck.
Took UW for another spin yesterday at my LGS’s Modern store championship. I finally acquired a second Search for Azcanta, which came in for the second Jace. Other notable changes to my previous list were replacing a Wall with Runed Halo, and trying out a Remand (borderline blasphemous, but I’ve seen it in a few lists lately and always need to play a little spice) in place of my second Mana Leak.
Round 1 vs RG Ponza: Opponent won the die roll and did this: T1 Arbor Elf, T2 Stone Rain, T3 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, T4 Stone Rain and Magus of the Moon, T5 Thragtusk. I scooped without playing a single spell. G2 wasn’t much better; I kept a 5-land opener that was resilient to land destruction, but not to Blood Moon, and he had the T2 Moon. Oof. On T3 I found a second Plains off the top that allowed me to resolve a Gideon, but he flooded the board with big goons and I quickly lost. Casting one spell in two games as a UW Control player was not the most auspicious start I’ve ever had.
Round 2 vs Heartless Mill: Opponent’s T1 Altar of the Brood gave me a vague idea that I was against some kind of infinite mill combo, although I’d never seen it played and wasn’t familiar with its mechanics. My answers lined up well: T3 D-Sphere for his Heartless Summoning, Cryptic for his Trinket Mage, T5 Gideon OTT into emblem, T6 Snap and Cryptic to start the beats. G2 played out like an entirely different matchup, with my Spreading Seas and Fields keeping him off black mana for quite some time. Once more, it was Gideon and Snapcaster that closed out the game, with an assist on the lethal turn from Colonnade.
Round 3 vs Taking Turns: These games were wild. I tapped out for a T2 Search, which allowed him to resolve Thing in the Ice. We played chicken for a while, resolving cantrips, and at the crucial moment I cast Cryptic to bounce Thing and counter a free turn spell, with Negate mana still open. My opponent then topdecked Temporal Mastery and cast it for its Miracle cost. I countered, but then my shields were down and he cast another free turn spell and started going off, with a cantrip into Exhaustion into another few turns and a flipped Thing. Awoken Horror swung twice on an open board before he fizzled, and I was able to stabilize with Azcanta into Path and then Gideon OTT with counter backup. Yet again, Gideon got me there.
Round 2 my opponent took a mull to 6, while I kept a strong 7. His start was a little halting, while I curved out nicely with T1 Serum, T2 Search, and T3 land and pass with Negate up in case of As Foretold or other shenanigans. My opponent missed his fourth land drop and passed, so I flashed in Clique on the end step, and saw a hand of Temporal Mastery, the six mana turn spell, and Gigadrowse. About to untap with a threat down and a Cryptic, a Negate, and a fourth land in my own hand, I felt confident in taking away the Gigadrowse, so I did...and off Clique’s ability he found another Mastery, which he cast for its Miracle cost and started going off. Had to laugh at that one. That sequence got him back into the game, but my progression was still too strong to handle. Clique and Snapcaster did the beating while I interacted with the stack and used Azcanta to stay ahead on resources.
Round 4 vs Infect: I felt that the first couple turns were about as good as it gets against Infect on the draw: opponent has no T1 play, while I lay a Colonnade; then he plays a Blighted Agent, which I name with T2 Runed Halo. So far so good, but he kept drawing gas and I eventually ran out of answers. There was also an incident in which I let him correct a misplay (he responded to my Field activation on his Nexus by casting Blossoming Defense without activating the land first). Later in this same game, I had a Path up and ready for his Elf. He swung, and after mo blocks he cast a kicked Vines of Vastwood. I said “yeah...hmmm”, while still thinking about what else he might have in hand, and about five seconds later said “I’ll respond.” He claimed it was too late, the spell had already resolved, and called the judge, who ruled in his favor. In all honesty the ruling was acceptable in a vacuum—I should have been clearer—but in light of a fact that I’d let him take back a misplay a couple minutes earlier it was quite distasteful.
Round 2 his three early threats were Glistener Elf and two Nexi, which I answered with Path and a pair of Fields. I Mana Leaked his fourth threat (Agent, I believe) and then slammed Gideon Jura, which closed out the game nice and quickly. Opponent muttered something about lucky draws. Round 3 I once more had an early Field for his Nexus and an early Path for his Elf. Some time in those early turns I found a Blessed Alliance off the top, and settled on a strategy of funneling him into attacking with a lone creature and dumping his hand for a one-shot kill. T5 I played a Wall and passed, then he untapped and laid down a Blighted Agent. I made a point of looking alarmed, checked my hand repeatedly, and at last let it resolve. Sure enough, next turn he tested the waters with a mainphase Might of Old Krosa. I let it resolve despite Cryptic in hand. He swung, and after no blocks were declared he dumped two more spells for what would have been lethal if not for the sack effect from Blessed Alliance, which was a nice blowout. He was pissed, and scooped to my next turn Gideon OTT.
Normally I don’t indulge in any gamesmanship like that, but if I’m honest, this opponent was a bit of a prick. Refused the handshake and GG at the end, and then went whining to the judge about how I tried to slime him. Lmao, some people!
Finished 3-1 in a four-way tie for second. The Ponza player who gave me the business in Round 1 ended up being the lone 4-0 and champion, so all in all I’ll call this another successful night with UW Control. The Second Search was great, Gideon OTT and Field of Ruin were my MVPs, and, in reference to all the discussion surrounding Mana Leak’s shortcomings, the card showed up huge for me last night, in situations where none of the alternatives would have bailed me out.
How does Baffling End stack up against Journey to nowhere? I think 3/3 is definitely easier to handle than whatever creature you're going to hit is, but is the drawback of hitting <4cmc too high? I guess the real question is, does journey get destroyed often enough to worry about that kind of thing? Probably not right, I mean d-sphere rarely gets hit.
The companion question to yours is this: how often will the ability to bounce and recast Baffling End come into play? Flickerwisp players may have perked up when this card was spoiled (the trampling 3/3 is a downside, but can be dealt with profitably by common D&T cards like Restoration Angel, Blade Splicer’s token, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar).
For us, the prospect of bouncing and replaying Baffling End with Cryptic is definitely live. I personally don’t find myself doing so often with D-Sphere, but End will typically be a better target for that. Wall of Omens lines up perfectly against the 3/3 token, as does Gideon of the Trials assuming a board that’s otherwise under control. Baffling End may well be worth testing.
I can’t see it doing much for us since his ability can only be fired off during attacks, putting us shields down for the next turn and a half. At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, Rev is only playable because it’s an Instant.
Still, I really want to somehow justify this dude.
Can anyone speak about their experiences with Sword of Light and Shadow in the sideboard? There are some obvious upsides to the card, but what less apparent strengths does it bring? And why is it more commonly seen than Sword of Fire and Ice? Do the Swords in general slot better into GW, GB, or Abzan?
Yea, that's what I figured. Anyone know when that rule change is happening?
This came up during my first paper event with this deck, when a Dredge player wanted to redirect Conflagarate damage. We looked it up and couldn’t find a hard date, but I seem to remember the context of an article suggesting that it would change sometime during Rivals of Ixalan.
Yep, I winced when he explained why he was cutting the third Plains. Eight basics looks like a lot, so his instinct is completely understandable, but this deck proves to its pilots in a hurry how important that critical mass of basic lands is.
I agree with you: Snare is a maindeck or bust card at heart, but right now the meta is so split between fast, efficient spells and big-mana decks that Snare in the side isn’t unreasonable at all. Along those lines, I’ve had a lot of success running a Flashfreeze in the side, which isn’t a very popular choice, but has proved extremely useful for me thus far.
This would be a time-consuming project, but I wonder what the results would be if we collectively drew up a list of every realistic sideboard option (capped at 40 or 50 cards, let’s say), and went through the tier lists to see which cards could come in for any given matchup. Would we end up with something identical to the usual sideboards, or would cards like Spell Snare and Flashfreeze come in across more matchups than some of the current stalwarts?
As far as the clock is concerned, I find the most useful strategy to be establishing short cuts verbally with your opponent as early as possible and not spending an inordinate amount of time shuffling. Also, shuffle your opponents deck as little as possible while still ensuring you aren't being cheated, at regular REL I usually just cut. If you can save 20 seconds shuffling your opponents deck, times that by 5 times a game per player and that works out to like 10 minutes or shuffling per round for a 3 game match. This number can be reduced if you spend the time shuffling while also verbally declaring actions.
Another strategy is to have a sideboard strategy worked out before entering the tournament. Sometimes this doesn't help because your opponent still takes forever, but if you finish before them they usually feel inclined to speed up. Same thing goes with your pace of play, you and your opponent will find a middle ground pace of play, humans have a tendency for mimicry and you will strike a negotiation subconsciously about what speed is acceptable, so if you have easy decision to make, don't bluff dilemmas because you're setting bad precedent for the pace of play. Play as fast as you think you can do without sacrificing quality of play.
Cheers
Great advice. I’m already doing some of that, but consciously assuming the role of pace-setter is definitely something to work on—if anything, I tend to do the opposite.
As of a couple days ago, SCG has a series up of Gerry Thompson playing UW. He ran with the 15-0 list mentioned above but made a few tweaks, and the tweaks didn’t really pay off (he played 2x Spell Snare main and they rotted in his hand more often than not, for instance). No Rev also meant that in matches where his Searches were boarded out or tough to get online, he didn’t have the proper density of late-game payoff cards, or so it seemed to me.
@Savagegaul - Crucible was one of the cards I was curious about, the other was 3rd cryptic that I'm fairly certain you were undecided about last time you posted a list. I think we discussed the possibility of cutting 2nd jace or 3rd cryptic just to get to 60 cards (which I still advise). I think it's telling that you factored the 2nd Jace and not your 3rd cryptic in your decision tree of a possible cut for 2nd Azcanta - it's good information for me because I'm on 2 Jace, 2 Cryptic most of the time.
Rev and Alliance are both playable cards in my estimation. I use to be really low on Rev, but that was before Field of Ruin, I think 1 is defensible now and I'm having my own decision dilemma about whether I want 3rd Search and/or 1st rev.
Anyways, congrats and cheers!
Thank you!
The notion of playing just two Cryptics was actually something that hadn’t occurred to me until it was suggested here—and then I ended up running just two for my first tourney anyway, since the dude who was letting me borrow them couldn’t find a third. I haven’t had any experiences yet that make me want to trim the third Cryptic; it’s been a crucial cog in the wheel.
I did, however, shave a Jace to bring it down to 60 cards when playing at a different store a few days back. My results fell off compared to previous weeks, which is clearly empirical proof that the 61-card setup is superior. In all seriousness, my inexperience with the deck shone through here, specifically in regard to managing the time in the rounds.
Round 1 vs Eternal Command: I’d never faced this deck before. G1 was a hell of a grind. An early Crucible with a Field in the yard proved to be a huge value engine. Over time I shut him off green, which was probably a mistake, because he didn’t seem to need it for anything besides E-Witness/Goyf/Scooze, all of which he played through Vial anyway. Still, the Crucible value was real, and I battled through several Witness loops to stay alive for my planeswalkers to take over.
G2 my opponent slammed a T2 Goyf, I untapped and cast a Rest In Peace, then my opponent resolved a Geist. I had a Blessed Alliance (but no wrath) in hand, and my opponent was smart enough to attack with the 0/1 Goyf alongside Geist, closing out the game quickly. G3 is where my inexperience with managing time kicked in. We went to turns and the game ended with me at 19 life with both Gideons down and a handful of interaction, and my opponent at 2 life with an empty board. If I had been paying attention to the clock, I could have hit the gas a little earlier. Oh well, draw it is.
Round 2 vs Zubera Tribal. This is one of the jankiest strategies enabled by the printing of Unclaimed Territory. The idea is that they assemble all of the Zuberas (who grant various advantages upon death for each Zubera that died this turn) alongside sac outlets like Viscera Seer and Bloodthrone Vampire, with cards like Grisly Salavge, Return to the Ranks, and Rally the Ancestors for recursion. This actually seems pretty tough for us to beat G1. Their weak 1/2s still pressure our board; our wraths advance their game plan; they can blank Paths by sacking for Scry and/or Zubera triggers. I lost a long G1 and mulled to 4 on G2. Rekt.
Round 3 vs Jeskai Control: Pretty much the last deck I wanted to see, but G1 went my way. I was able to answer Quellers and Geists, eventually forcing through a Search, which turned he tide while I stood at 7 life. Late in the game, my Rev for 7 on his end step forced him to blow his counter, which allowed me to untap and slam both Gideons while holding up Negate. GG.
Sadly, I was on the receiving end of nut draws post-side. G2 he played T3 and T4 Geists, both of which I countered, having failed to find a wrath off my my 2x Serum opener. I had no answer for his T5 Keranos (which I didn’t think was a very common inclusion anymore), and he took over the game. G3, with an eye on the clock, I kept a hand that could feasibly get as quick of a win as UW can manage: Colonnade, Island, Fountain, Path, Mana Leak, Gideon OTT, Verdict. His own Mana Leak on my Gideon set that plan back, and then he resolved a T6 Keranos with Dispel to counter my Negate. The clock ran out and we went to turns on my next turn, and for his next three draw steps he showed me either a Bolt or a Helix, did three to me with Keranos, then hit me with the spell. I couldn’t find any counters (or another Gideon for emblem) and went from 18 to 0 over those three turns. Feels bad man.
Round 4 vs Boros Burn: His T1 Goblin Guide on the play got in for a lot of damage over the course of the game and didn’t even have the decency to hit a single land drop for me! Quite unlucky. My T2 Wall got handled by Guide + Searing Blaze, and from there he found too many Boros Charms for me to beat.
G2 I locked him out of W mana with Seas + Field long enough to take over, winning through Gideon Jura with a Colonnade assist. G3 I kept a two-lander with a Wall and a fistful of counters, which lines up perfectly with what he played. Midgame I resolved a Search while he was in topdeck mode, and then he flooded out, but my Search kept whiffing or finding me more counters, and it took an unusually long time to find a wincon—but we got there.
Round 5 vs UW Control: This had been a grueling night for both of us, and we had to laugh at getting the control mirror to end all control mirrors in the final round. G1 hinged around some Gideon-on-Gideon violence in which I was able to prevail thanks to Alliance and D-Sphere. G2, the turning point game around T8 or so, when I flashed in a Clique on my opponent’s end step and baited the all-out counter war. Clique did not resolve, but I untapped and slammed Jura and Search uncontested, and from there it was only a matter of time.
2-2-1 comprised my worst results so far. My fatal flaw was failing to manage the time in each round: my draw vs Eternal Command could and should have been a win if I’d been watching the clock; my loss vs Jeskai could have been a draw if I hadn’t tried to force the early win in G3 and had instead respected the possibility, however remote, of the rapid Keranos+Burn wincon. I’m also sure I misplayed against the Zubera deck because I had no idea what was going on for a while, lol.
Hey all! I recently bought into MTGO, and ended up choosing to build GB Elves over UW Control (my two favorite paper decks) as my online deck of choice. So far, over five friendly Modern leagues (I’m told that the skill level there is the same or
similar to competitive leagues but the decks aren’t as consistently top tier), my record is 18-7, including a 5-0 last night. My list has remained unchanged from the one that’s been serving me well in paper:
Some slight budgetary concessions have been made (1 Cavern instead of 2; Duress over Thoughtseize [though Duress is much nicer against Burn]), but otherwise this is what I’ve been having success with in paper as well. Major findings:
- The maindeck Scooze has been approaching MVP status. I love slamming him on turn 5 or 6 of a grindy match against red-based decks with lots of spot removal and watching him just take over. It’s also great to have some Chordable grave hate against the usual suspects plus newer decks like Hollow One.
- The one-of Throne has been fantastic as well. I had a Lantern player scoop to it on sight, for instance. Beyond that, I seem to win roughly 40% of the time from overwhelming Shaman/Throne drain and 40% of the time from go-wide beats with Shaman/Throne assists (the other 20% coming from Ezuri overruns). Throne as a part of the early progression often makes either of the primary win conditions a turn quicker than they would otherwise be.
- A 2/2 split on Lead/Chord still feels right to me. When the Elf train is chugging along, either will put the nail in the coffin with the way GB plays. When we’re facing disruption, I like having access to both: Chord for instant-speed Ezuri to regen or Scooze to hose the grave or Shaman for lethal; Lead to rebuild post-wipe or just enable a completely degenerate turn with Heritage/Nettle/Dwynen’s synergies.
- Tajuru Preserver has cemented his place in my sideboard. A reasonably costed in-tribe body that blows out Living End, Emrakul, Liliana of the Veil, and some other things I’m likely forgetting is good enough for me. While there are lots of other cards with wider applications, I’ve come to realize that overboarding with this deck can be a real danger, so I’m happy with narrow but powerful selections like Preserver.
Savagegaul - glad to hear of your success! I think you might guess where I'm going with this, (and I'm also curious about 2 specific cards in your list that I wont mention as to bias your respons) but what's been the worse performing/least impressive/most often sided-out card in the main?
Thanks man!
You’re probably curious about the Crucible, and then maybe Rev or Alliance, I’d I had to guess. It’s really hard for me to say that anything at all has been performing poorly. Crucible does come out a fair amount of the time—when I need to be as fast as possible to survive, or when grave hate is going to be a major factor on either side of the table—but it has also been fantastic in certain matchups. The Ponza player, for instance, seemed ready to scoop as soon as it hit the table, and then did so once I resolved a permanent that could close out the game. Field of Ruin has arguably been my most effective card in the 75 thus far, and the value of Field recursion goes without saying. That said, I’m not wedded to Crucible, and will be keeping a close eye on how it plays.
Rev has been unequivocally great in my games. If/when I add the second Search, it won’t be in place of Rev—I’d rather shave a Jace or cut the Crucible. Blessed Alliance may be more of a meta call for me than most, but I love the card. Shadow, Ponza, Skred, Burn, and red-splashing decks with both aggro and burn elements like Pyromancer and Delver are all common opponents for me.
The 61-card hype train rolls on! After going 4-0 on my paper debut a few weeks ago, I decided to run the exact same list back (2x Jace, and one-ofs on Search, Rev, and Crucible as my card advantage slots, plus a maindeck Blessed Alliance—otherwise a stock 25-land list).
Round 1 vs GB Elves:
G1 my opponent won the die roll and proceeded to vomit out his hand. By the end of his T4 he had me at two life with one card in hand. I hit the Verdict and passed; he untapped and played a Lead the Stampede, finding Ezuri, Elvish Archdruid, and a pair of mana dorks. Not good! I untapped and topdecked the land I needed to stay in it. Slammed a Gideon OTT, Mana Leaked his next turn’s play, and then the game was on. I needed almost every trick in the book—both Walls, Rev, Snapcaster, multiple Paths, Jace—but finally I weathered the Elf storm, and found Gideon Jura for the lock.
G2 I brought in Settle the Wreckage, Flashfreeze, and Grafdigger’s Cage. Once more he nearly emptied his hand to bring me to 3 life before my T4 Verdict cleaned things up. Opponent played a land and mana dork to put himself into topdeck mode and passed. I play Colonnade and send it back; he swings, no blocks, and plays the CoCo he topdecked; I Cryptic to counter and draw, going down to two. On my turn I made my sixth land drop, slam a Jace, roll him up, and pass. Opponent topdecks another CoCo and main phases it, but my Mana Leak answers it and he scoops.
Round 2 vs GR Ponza:
Game 1 I seem to have things well in hand, until he drops a T6 Thrun, with regen mana open. Suddenly the Verdict and pair of Paths in my hand don’t look so hot, but the Blessed Alliance in my hand will bail me out, especially since he has no other creatures and is topdecking. Aaaand next turn he pulls a Stormbreath Dragon. Oh well. I take the 8, Verdict away the Drag, and pass with Alliance mana open. Opponent topdecks another Dragon! GG.
For G2 I’ve brought in Flashfreeze, Disdainful Stroke, Settle the Wreckage, Runed Halo, and Vendilion Clique. I keep a fantastic two-lander with Leak, Stroke, Flashfreeze, and 2x Serum Visions. I hit my land drops with help from Visions and counter his early action. I lay down Crucible on T5, holding up Flashfreeze mana, then do the same with Jura on T7, prompting the scoop.
G3 can only be described as the nuts. Opponent played T1 Arbor Elf into T2 Utopia Sprawl and Magus of the Moon. So far I’m not too worried; I play an Island, and then Seas my own Colonnade with two Plains in hand. But then he tosses out a T3 Dragon I can’t answer and swings. T4 Monstrous activation pretty much seals the deal. Ponza’s best progressions seem just about as good as anything in the format.
Round 3 vs Izzet Pyromancer: Not much to say here, it was a casual 2-0 with my opponent mulling to 6 on the draw and then 5 on the play and still not really mustering much of a resistance to my smooth progressions. I was able to use my mana efficiently every turn and hit all of my land drops. When you’re doing that in UW, the wincons will follow.
Round 4 vs Lantern: I wasn’t thrilled about this matchup for obvious reasons, and the deck is piloted by the person I’d consider the top player at the store, but with the discussion from this thread about the shift to a blue splash for Whir of Invention in the back of my mind, I was heartened to see his T1 Botanical Sanctum. He did his thing well enough early on, but the turning point came when I D-Sphered his pair of Codex Shredders, leaving him with only Lanterns on board in terms of lock pieces. I only got in with Colonnade once before he found a Pithing Needle with Stirrings and shut off my manlands. But then Serum Visions found me Jace, who ticked down and found me Gideon OTT, and from there my advantage was too much.
G2, with eight cards dead in the main, I brought in all kinds of stuff: Negate, Ceremonious Rejection, Disenchant, Rest In Peace (more of a nonbo for me than a necessity but still less dead than Path/Verdict/Alliance), Runed Halo, Stony Silence x2, and Clique. My side action did plenty of work—all kinds of counterspell action in the mid game—but what really won me the game was Field of Ruin. My opponent kept a one-lander, and with only one basic in his deck, my T3 Field activation (while holding up Ceremonious) punished him hard. Played more Fields T4 and T5, and instantly shot them off at his next two land drops. His only lock piece was a Pyxis—besides that, he had a hand full of interaction that he couldn’t use for a long time, and by the time he could I was on seven or so lands with a full hand and a Search for Azcanta down. He Decayed the Search, so I laid down a Gideon OTT and made the emblem. His second (and possibly final) Decay took care of Gids, but I followed up with another, then a Rev, which found 2x Stony Silence and 2x Detention Sphere, which I knew would be quite safe. Opponent topdecked a Thoughtseize and scooped after some deliberation.
7-2 in games, 3-1 in matches for the night. 7-1 in overall competitive matches so far. This deck feels like a perfect fit for me, and despite the hundreds of minor decisions that went into the Lantern match at the end of some long rounds, the mental strain didn’t feel as taxing as it did on my debut week.
Thanks for reading, and thanks again to everybody for all the discussion here.
I was the UW list in 31st place. I havn't liked Runed Halos, they're pretty clunky and they don't protect your planeswalkers. Pretty much nobody worth their salt sides in graveyard hate against UW. It only hits ~2 snapcasters and makes your searches worse. Modern draw options are pretty limited, if you dont like revelation you can play Glimmer of Genius.
Congrats on the placement!
I agree with what you say in regard to grave hate for the most part, but I just wonder whether a package of 2 Snapcasters (which could be 3 for all the opponent knows), 2 Searches, and a Crucible changes the opponent’s incentives enough to worry about.
I’ve actually had fantastic results with my one-of Rev so far. A second Search would probably replace the second Jace before the Rev, for me. Glimmer seems decent, but not quite powerful enough; I agree with whoever said a while back that it would be in the mix if it gave us literally anything useable in our deck instead of the energy counters.
My honest opinion of Tectonic Edge is that it is a bad card. Against the decks where you really need early land destruction, working only after your opponent hits 4 lands is too slow. Additionally, hurting your land development is pretty bad in a deck that wants to be casting snap-cryptic and activating colonnade with mana up.
Ghost quarter sees less play because it is card disadvantage that also sets you back a land drop vs your opponent. It plays a key role of being faster and also being able to hit basics, which has surprisingly common applications.
Personally, I like 3-1 field/quarter in non-Crucible of Worlds builds of UW, going to 2-2 or 3-2 field/quarter in builds with Crucible main or side.
I agree with all of this, with the caveat that I haven’t tried out Ghost Quarter yet (but a 3/2 or even 4/1 split seems very nice).
^ Quite the spicy UW list that showed up in the results from this past weekend’s Modern Challenge. Two Halos, two Spell Snares, Disallow, Settle the Wreckage, and a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar all in the maindeck. Wild!
It’s also worth noting that both this list and the UW list that placed in the RPTQ ran two copies of Search for Azcanta, so those who’ve been saying that 2x Search is now stock are beginning to be proven right.
As a newer player to the deck, I’ve favored diversifiying my card advantage sources (1 Search, 1 Rev, 1 Crucible, 2 Jace as my main engines), partially to test everything out, and partially because I felt the second Search opened me up a little more to grave hate. Normally I’d consider the opponent siding that against us to be just fine—especially since Crucible is an easy side out in such cases—but the idea of running two Search and no Rev makes enemy grave hate seem a lot more troubling. Any thoughts/experiences with this?
Let’s say I shave down to 4 such effects (1 Purphoros, 3 Tremors). My first thought is to add the 8th Soul Sister and the third Copter; my second thought is to try out a pair of Thraben Inspectors. Either way, I’m adding a little more emphasis to the draw/filter aspect of the deck, which does seem necessary.
With that in mind, I’m leaning toward going all in on the EtBs. Here’s the list I drew up:
4 Inspiring Vantage
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Clifftop Retreat
6 Plains
1 Kher Keep
1 Westvale Abbey
4 Norin the Wary
4 Soul Warden
3 Soul’s Attendant
1 Auriok Champion
2 Lightning Berserker
2 Smuggler’s Copter
2 Ranger of Eos
4 Impact Tremors
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Spirit Bonds
1 Blood Moon
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Boros Charm
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest In Peace
2 Wear//Tear
1 Blood Moon
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Electrickery
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Return to the Ranks
Any thoughts on this as a starting point? I love the Spirit Bonds tech mentioned upthread, but one is the most I’d want to see in most games, so I think it’s fine as a one-of. Same goes for Moon: if it catches someone, fine, and if not, there aren’t too many slots committed to it.
I also love Thraben Inspector, but there just doesn’t seem to be room for a playset. Two could be squeezed in (perhaps for a Tremors and a Sister?), but that may be too cute for a jumping-off point in terms of getting reps in with the deck.
Round 1 vs RG Ponza: Opponent won the die roll and did this: T1 Arbor Elf, T2 Stone Rain, T3 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, T4 Stone Rain and Magus of the Moon, T5 Thragtusk. I scooped without playing a single spell. G2 wasn’t much better; I kept a 5-land opener that was resilient to land destruction, but not to Blood Moon, and he had the T2 Moon. Oof. On T3 I found a second Plains off the top that allowed me to resolve a Gideon, but he flooded the board with big goons and I quickly lost. Casting one spell in two games as a UW Control player was not the most auspicious start I’ve ever had.
Round 2 vs Heartless Mill: Opponent’s T1 Altar of the Brood gave me a vague idea that I was against some kind of infinite mill combo, although I’d never seen it played and wasn’t familiar with its mechanics. My answers lined up well: T3 D-Sphere for his Heartless Summoning, Cryptic for his Trinket Mage, T5 Gideon OTT into emblem, T6 Snap and Cryptic to start the beats. G2 played out like an entirely different matchup, with my Spreading Seas and Fields keeping him off black mana for quite some time. Once more, it was Gideon and Snapcaster that closed out the game, with an assist on the lethal turn from Colonnade.
Round 3 vs Taking Turns: These games were wild. I tapped out for a T2 Search, which allowed him to resolve Thing in the Ice. We played chicken for a while, resolving cantrips, and at the crucial moment I cast Cryptic to bounce Thing and counter a free turn spell, with Negate mana still open. My opponent then topdecked Temporal Mastery and cast it for its Miracle cost. I countered, but then my shields were down and he cast another free turn spell and started going off, with a cantrip into Exhaustion into another few turns and a flipped Thing. Awoken Horror swung twice on an open board before he fizzled, and I was able to stabilize with Azcanta into Path and then Gideon OTT with counter backup. Yet again, Gideon got me there.
Round 2 my opponent took a mull to 6, while I kept a strong 7. His start was a little halting, while I curved out nicely with T1 Serum, T2 Search, and T3 land and pass with Negate up in case of As Foretold or other shenanigans. My opponent missed his fourth land drop and passed, so I flashed in Clique on the end step, and saw a hand of Temporal Mastery, the six mana turn spell, and Gigadrowse. About to untap with a threat down and a Cryptic, a Negate, and a fourth land in my own hand, I felt confident in taking away the Gigadrowse, so I did...and off Clique’s ability he found another Mastery, which he cast for its Miracle cost and started going off. Had to laugh at that one. That sequence got him back into the game, but my progression was still too strong to handle. Clique and Snapcaster did the beating while I interacted with the stack and used Azcanta to stay ahead on resources.
Round 4 vs Infect: I felt that the first couple turns were about as good as it gets against Infect on the draw: opponent has no T1 play, while I lay a Colonnade; then he plays a Blighted Agent, which I name with T2 Runed Halo. So far so good, but he kept drawing gas and I eventually ran out of answers. There was also an incident in which I let him correct a misplay (he responded to my Field activation on his Nexus by casting Blossoming Defense without activating the land first). Later in this same game, I had a Path up and ready for his Elf. He swung, and after mo blocks he cast a kicked Vines of Vastwood. I said “yeah...hmmm”, while still thinking about what else he might have in hand, and about five seconds later said “I’ll respond.” He claimed it was too late, the spell had already resolved, and called the judge, who ruled in his favor. In all honesty the ruling was acceptable in a vacuum—I should have been clearer—but in light of a fact that I’d let him take back a misplay a couple minutes earlier it was quite distasteful.
Round 2 his three early threats were Glistener Elf and two Nexi, which I answered with Path and a pair of Fields. I Mana Leaked his fourth threat (Agent, I believe) and then slammed Gideon Jura, which closed out the game nice and quickly. Opponent muttered something about lucky draws. Round 3 I once more had an early Field for his Nexus and an early Path for his Elf. Some time in those early turns I found a Blessed Alliance off the top, and settled on a strategy of funneling him into attacking with a lone creature and dumping his hand for a one-shot kill. T5 I played a Wall and passed, then he untapped and laid down a Blighted Agent. I made a point of looking alarmed, checked my hand repeatedly, and at last let it resolve. Sure enough, next turn he tested the waters with a mainphase Might of Old Krosa. I let it resolve despite Cryptic in hand. He swung, and after no blocks were declared he dumped two more spells for what would have been lethal if not for the sack effect from Blessed Alliance, which was a nice blowout. He was pissed, and scooped to my next turn Gideon OTT.
Normally I don’t indulge in any gamesmanship like that, but if I’m honest, this opponent was a bit of a prick. Refused the handshake and GG at the end, and then went whining to the judge about how I tried to slime him. Lmao, some people!
Finished 3-1 in a four-way tie for second. The Ponza player who gave me the business in Round 1 ended up being the lone 4-0 and champion, so all in all I’ll call this another successful night with UW Control. The Second Search was great, Gideon OTT and Field of Ruin were my MVPs, and, in reference to all the discussion surrounding Mana Leak’s shortcomings, the card showed up huge for me last night, in situations where none of the alternatives would have bailed me out.
The companion question to yours is this: how often will the ability to bounce and recast Baffling End come into play? Flickerwisp players may have perked up when this card was spoiled (the trampling 3/3 is a downside, but can be dealt with profitably by common D&T cards like Restoration Angel, Blade Splicer’s token, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar).
For us, the prospect of bouncing and replaying Baffling End with Cryptic is definitely live. I personally don’t find myself doing so often with D-Sphere, but End will typically be a better target for that. Wall of Omens lines up perfectly against the 3/3 token, as does Gideon of the Trials assuming a board that’s otherwise under control. Baffling End may well be worth testing.
Really putting the Sphinx in Sphinx’s Revelation!
I can’t see it doing much for us since his ability can only be fired off during attacks, putting us shields down for the next turn and a half. At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, Rev is only playable because it’s an Instant.
Still, I really want to somehow justify this dude.
Thanks!
@douloumeaux: wild report, especially the match against Tezzeret. I would have been the one complaining about family obligations, lol.
This came up during my first paper event with this deck, when a Dredge player wanted to redirect Conflagarate damage. We looked it up and couldn’t find a hard date, but I seem to remember the context of an article suggesting that it would change sometime during Rivals of Ixalan.
I agree with you: Snare is a maindeck or bust card at heart, but right now the meta is so split between fast, efficient spells and big-mana decks that Snare in the side isn’t unreasonable at all. Along those lines, I’ve had a lot of success running a Flashfreeze in the side, which isn’t a very popular choice, but has proved extremely useful for me thus far.
This would be a time-consuming project, but I wonder what the results would be if we collectively drew up a list of every realistic sideboard option (capped at 40 or 50 cards, let’s say), and went through the tier lists to see which cards could come in for any given matchup. Would we end up with something identical to the usual sideboards, or would cards like Spell Snare and Flashfreeze come in across more matchups than some of the current stalwarts?
Great advice. I’m already doing some of that, but consciously assuming the role of pace-setter is definitely something to work on—if anything, I tend to do the opposite.
As of a couple days ago, SCG has a series up of Gerry Thompson playing UW. He ran with the 15-0 list mentioned above but made a few tweaks, and the tweaks didn’t really pay off (he played 2x Spell Snare main and they rotted in his hand more often than not, for instance). No Rev also meant that in matches where his Searches were boarded out or tough to get online, he didn’t have the proper density of late-game payoff cards, or so it seemed to me.
@awesomesauce: congrats on the nice run of form. I love the Spell Snare and Halo in the main. What’s the logic behind the single Wall of Omens?
Thank you!
The notion of playing just two Cryptics was actually something that hadn’t occurred to me until it was suggested here—and then I ended up running just two for my first tourney anyway, since the dude who was letting me borrow them couldn’t find a third. I haven’t had any experiences yet that make me want to trim the third Cryptic; it’s been a crucial cog in the wheel.
I did, however, shave a Jace to bring it down to 60 cards when playing at a different store a few days back. My results fell off compared to previous weeks, which is clearly empirical proof that the 61-card setup is superior.
Round 1 vs Eternal Command: I’d never faced this deck before. G1 was a hell of a grind. An early Crucible with a Field in the yard proved to be a huge value engine. Over time I shut him off green, which was probably a mistake, because he didn’t seem to need it for anything besides E-Witness/Goyf/Scooze, all of which he played through Vial anyway. Still, the Crucible value was real, and I battled through several Witness loops to stay alive for my planeswalkers to take over.
G2 my opponent slammed a T2 Goyf, I untapped and cast a Rest In Peace, then my opponent resolved a Geist. I had a Blessed Alliance (but no wrath) in hand, and my opponent was smart enough to attack with the 0/1 Goyf alongside Geist, closing out the game quickly. G3 is where my inexperience with managing time kicked in. We went to turns and the game ended with me at 19 life with both Gideons down and a handful of interaction, and my opponent at 2 life with an empty board. If I had been paying attention to the clock, I could have hit the gas a little earlier. Oh well, draw it is.
Round 2 vs Zubera Tribal. This is one of the jankiest strategies enabled by the printing of Unclaimed Territory. The idea is that they assemble all of the Zuberas (who grant various advantages upon death for each Zubera that died this turn) alongside sac outlets like Viscera Seer and Bloodthrone Vampire, with cards like Grisly Salavge, Return to the Ranks, and Rally the Ancestors for recursion. This actually seems pretty tough for us to beat G1. Their weak 1/2s still pressure our board; our wraths advance their game plan; they can blank Paths by sacking for Scry and/or Zubera triggers. I lost a long G1 and mulled to 4 on G2. Rekt.
Round 3 vs Jeskai Control: Pretty much the last deck I wanted to see, but G1 went my way. I was able to answer Quellers and Geists, eventually forcing through a Search, which turned he tide while I stood at 7 life. Late in the game, my Rev for 7 on his end step forced him to blow his counter, which allowed me to untap and slam both Gideons while holding up Negate. GG.
Sadly, I was on the receiving end of nut draws post-side. G2 he played T3 and T4 Geists, both of which I countered, having failed to find a wrath off my my 2x Serum opener. I had no answer for his T5 Keranos (which I didn’t think was a very common inclusion anymore), and he took over the game. G3, with an eye on the clock, I kept a hand that could feasibly get as quick of a win as UW can manage: Colonnade, Island, Fountain, Path, Mana Leak, Gideon OTT, Verdict. His own Mana Leak on my Gideon set that plan back, and then he resolved a T6 Keranos with Dispel to counter my Negate. The clock ran out and we went to turns on my next turn, and for his next three draw steps he showed me either a Bolt or a Helix, did three to me with Keranos, then hit me with the spell. I couldn’t find any counters (or another Gideon for emblem) and went from 18 to 0 over those three turns. Feels bad man.
Round 4 vs Boros Burn: His T1 Goblin Guide on the play got in for a lot of damage over the course of the game and didn’t even have the decency to hit a single land drop for me! Quite unlucky. My T2 Wall got handled by Guide + Searing Blaze, and from there he found too many Boros Charms for me to beat.
G2 I locked him out of W mana with Seas + Field long enough to take over, winning through Gideon Jura with a Colonnade assist. G3 I kept a two-lander with a Wall and a fistful of counters, which lines up perfectly with what he played. Midgame I resolved a Search while he was in topdeck mode, and then he flooded out, but my Search kept whiffing or finding me more counters, and it took an unusually long time to find a wincon—but we got there.
Round 5 vs UW Control: This had been a grueling night for both of us, and we had to laugh at getting the control mirror to end all control mirrors in the final round. G1 hinged around some Gideon-on-Gideon violence in which I was able to prevail thanks to Alliance and D-Sphere. G2, the turning point game around T8 or so, when I flashed in a Clique on my opponent’s end step and baited the all-out counter war. Clique did not resolve, but I untapped and slammed Jura and Search uncontested, and from there it was only a matter of time.
2-2-1 comprised my worst results so far. My fatal flaw was failing to manage the time in each round: my draw vs Eternal Command could and should have been a win if I’d been watching the clock; my loss vs Jeskai could have been a draw if I hadn’t tried to force the early win in G3 and had instead respected the possibility, however remote, of the rapid Keranos+Burn wincon. I’m also sure I misplayed against the Zubera deck because I had no idea what was going on for a while, lol.
Any tips on clock management?
similar to competitive leagues but the decks aren’t as consistently top tier), my record is 18-7, including a 5-0 last night. My list has remained unchanged from the one that’s been serving me well in paper:
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Pendelhaven
1 Westvale Abbey
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Shaman of the Pack
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
2 Elvish Visionary
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Lead the Stampede
2 Chord of Calling
1 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Duress
2 Shapers’ Sanctuary
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Stain the Mind
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Tajuru Preserver
Some slight budgetary concessions have been made (1 Cavern instead of 2; Duress over Thoughtseize [though Duress is much nicer against Burn]), but otherwise this is what I’ve been having success with in paper as well. Major findings:
- The maindeck Scooze has been approaching MVP status. I love slamming him on turn 5 or 6 of a grindy match against red-based decks with lots of spot removal and watching him just take over. It’s also great to have some Chordable grave hate against the usual suspects plus newer decks like Hollow One.
- The one-of Throne has been fantastic as well. I had a Lantern player scoop to it on sight, for instance. Beyond that, I seem to win roughly 40% of the time from overwhelming Shaman/Throne drain and 40% of the time from go-wide beats with Shaman/Throne assists (the other 20% coming from Ezuri overruns). Throne as a part of the early progression often makes either of the primary win conditions a turn quicker than they would otherwise be.
- A 2/2 split on Lead/Chord still feels right to me. When the Elf train is chugging along, either will put the nail in the coffin with the way GB plays. When we’re facing disruption, I like having access to both: Chord for instant-speed Ezuri to regen or Scooze to hose the grave or Shaman for lethal; Lead to rebuild post-wipe or just enable a completely degenerate turn with Heritage/Nettle/Dwynen’s synergies.
- Tajuru Preserver has cemented his place in my sideboard. A reasonably costed in-tribe body that blows out Living End, Emrakul, Liliana of the Veil, and some other things I’m likely forgetting is good enough for me. While there are lots of other cards with wider applications, I’ve come to realize that overboarding with this deck can be a real danger, so I’m happy with narrow but powerful selections like Preserver.
Thanks man!
You’re probably curious about the Crucible, and then maybe Rev or Alliance, I’d I had to guess. It’s really hard for me to say that anything at all has been performing poorly. Crucible does come out a fair amount of the time—when I need to be as fast as possible to survive, or when grave hate is going to be a major factor on either side of the table—but it has also been fantastic in certain matchups. The Ponza player, for instance, seemed ready to scoop as soon as it hit the table, and then did so once I resolved a permanent that could close out the game. Field of Ruin has arguably been my most effective card in the 75 thus far, and the value of Field recursion goes without saying. That said, I’m not wedded to Crucible, and will be keeping a close eye on how it plays.
Rev has been unequivocally great in my games. If/when I add the second Search, it won’t be in place of Rev—I’d rather shave a Jace or cut the Crucible. Blessed Alliance may be more of a meta call for me than most, but I love the card. Shadow, Ponza, Skred, Burn, and red-splashing decks with both aggro and burn elements like Pyromancer and Delver are all common opponents for me.
Round 1 vs GB Elves:
G1 my opponent won the die roll and proceeded to vomit out his hand. By the end of his T4 he had me at two life with one card in hand. I hit the Verdict and passed; he untapped and played a Lead the Stampede, finding Ezuri, Elvish Archdruid, and a pair of mana dorks. Not good! I untapped and topdecked the land I needed to stay in it. Slammed a Gideon OTT, Mana Leaked his next turn’s play, and then the game was on. I needed almost every trick in the book—both Walls, Rev, Snapcaster, multiple Paths, Jace—but finally I weathered the Elf storm, and found Gideon Jura for the lock.
G2 I brought in Settle the Wreckage, Flashfreeze, and Grafdigger’s Cage. Once more he nearly emptied his hand to bring me to 3 life before my T4 Verdict cleaned things up. Opponent played a land and mana dork to put himself into topdeck mode and passed. I play Colonnade and send it back; he swings, no blocks, and plays the CoCo he topdecked; I Cryptic to counter and draw, going down to two. On my turn I made my sixth land drop, slam a Jace, roll him up, and pass. Opponent topdecks another CoCo and main phases it, but my Mana Leak answers it and he scoops.
Round 2 vs GR Ponza:
Game 1 I seem to have things well in hand, until he drops a T6 Thrun, with regen mana open. Suddenly the Verdict and pair of Paths in my hand don’t look so hot, but the Blessed Alliance in my hand will bail me out, especially since he has no other creatures and is topdecking. Aaaand next turn he pulls a Stormbreath Dragon. Oh well. I take the 8, Verdict away the Drag, and pass with Alliance mana open. Opponent topdecks another Dragon! GG.
For G2 I’ve brought in Flashfreeze, Disdainful Stroke, Settle the Wreckage, Runed Halo, and Vendilion Clique. I keep a fantastic two-lander with Leak, Stroke, Flashfreeze, and 2x Serum Visions. I hit my land drops with help from Visions and counter his early action. I lay down Crucible on T5, holding up Flashfreeze mana, then do the same with Jura on T7, prompting the scoop.
G3 can only be described as the nuts. Opponent played T1 Arbor Elf into T2 Utopia Sprawl and Magus of the Moon. So far I’m not too worried; I play an Island, and then Seas my own Colonnade with two Plains in hand. But then he tosses out a T3 Dragon I can’t answer and swings. T4 Monstrous activation pretty much seals the deal. Ponza’s best progressions seem just about as good as anything in the format.
Round 3 vs Izzet Pyromancer: Not much to say here, it was a casual 2-0 with my opponent mulling to 6 on the draw and then 5 on the play and still not really mustering much of a resistance to my smooth progressions. I was able to use my mana efficiently every turn and hit all of my land drops. When you’re doing that in UW, the wincons will follow.
Round 4 vs Lantern: I wasn’t thrilled about this matchup for obvious reasons, and the deck is piloted by the person I’d consider the top player at the store, but with the discussion from this thread about the shift to a blue splash for Whir of Invention in the back of my mind, I was heartened to see his T1 Botanical Sanctum. He did his thing well enough early on, but the turning point came when I D-Sphered his pair of Codex Shredders, leaving him with only Lanterns on board in terms of lock pieces. I only got in with Colonnade once before he found a Pithing Needle with Stirrings and shut off my manlands. But then Serum Visions found me Jace, who ticked down and found me Gideon OTT, and from there my advantage was too much.
G2, with eight cards dead in the main, I brought in all kinds of stuff: Negate, Ceremonious Rejection, Disenchant, Rest In Peace (more of a nonbo for me than a necessity but still less dead than Path/Verdict/Alliance), Runed Halo, Stony Silence x2, and Clique. My side action did plenty of work—all kinds of counterspell action in the mid game—but what really won me the game was Field of Ruin. My opponent kept a one-lander, and with only one basic in his deck, my T3 Field activation (while holding up Ceremonious) punished him hard. Played more Fields T4 and T5, and instantly shot them off at his next two land drops. His only lock piece was a Pyxis—besides that, he had a hand full of interaction that he couldn’t use for a long time, and by the time he could I was on seven or so lands with a full hand and a Search for Azcanta down. He Decayed the Search, so I laid down a Gideon OTT and made the emblem. His second (and possibly final) Decay took care of Gids, but I followed up with another, then a Rev, which found 2x Stony Silence and 2x Detention Sphere, which I knew would be quite safe. Opponent topdecked a Thoughtseize and scooped after some deliberation.
7-2 in games, 3-1 in matches for the night. 7-1 in overall competitive matches so far. This deck feels like a perfect fit for me, and despite the hundreds of minor decisions that went into the Lantern match at the end of some long rounds, the mental strain didn’t feel as taxing as it did on my debut week.
Thanks for reading, and thanks again to everybody for all the discussion here.
Congrats on the placement!
I agree with what you say in regard to grave hate for the most part, but I just wonder whether a package of 2 Snapcasters (which could be 3 for all the opponent knows), 2 Searches, and a Crucible changes the opponent’s incentives enough to worry about.
I’ve actually had fantastic results with my one-of Rev so far. A second Search would probably replace the second Jace before the Rev, for me. Glimmer seems decent, but not quite powerful enough; I agree with whoever said a while back that it would be in the mix if it gave us literally anything useable in our deck instead of the energy counters.
I agree with all of this, with the caveat that I haven’t tried out Ghost Quarter yet (but a 3/2 or even 4/1 split seems very nice).
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2017-11-26
^ Quite the spicy UW list that showed up in the results from this past weekend’s Modern Challenge. Two Halos, two Spell Snares, Disallow, Settle the Wreckage, and a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar all in the maindeck. Wild!
It’s also worth noting that both this list and the UW list that placed in the RPTQ ran two copies of Search for Azcanta, so those who’ve been saying that 2x Search is now stock are beginning to be proven right.
As a newer player to the deck, I’ve favored diversifiying my card advantage sources (1 Search, 1 Rev, 1 Crucible, 2 Jace as my main engines), partially to test everything out, and partially because I felt the second Search opened me up a little more to grave hate. Normally I’d consider the opponent siding that against us to be just fine—especially since Crucible is an easy side out in such cases—but the idea of running two Search and no Rev makes enemy grave hate seem a lot more troubling. Any thoughts/experiences with this?