My local meta is still in flux, but there are a ton of blue Jace deck, Bloodbraid decks, and Tron, and a few Valakut, Storm, and Ensnaring bridge artifact decks. Aggro has always been quite light, though sometimes some Affinity people show up. Thoughts?
I think Trinisphere can still have a place in the deck, but I wouldn't want it in the main with BBE. In the side to bring in against Death's Shadow and combo decks? Sure, I'll take a nonbo with BBE over totally hamstringing what my opponent is doing.
Mortars is a great example of something that was almost-playable as an alternative to Bonfire that just gets so much better with BBE. I like it. Ditto for Lotus Cobra. I'm definitely not ready to give up the Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl package but dorks with a bit more aggro power would be interesting. And we're gonna need it to race down all the Jace's we're about to be up against...
Agree with all of the above. Bonfire was already an iffy card, and Birds rarely felt good. 4 Trackers, 2+ Coursers, and a few Scooze and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar all seem like nice non-LD targets. I think our curve overall goes lower and more midrange rather than the "ramp into Inferno Titan" we traditionally do.
I agree, I don't think it's going to see play in our deck: we already shut off/blow up the other guy's lands, and this is going to make our fetches that we draw after we power this out Turn 2 useless. That's really bad, since we need them to play our 4-6 drops that win us the game.
As an aside, I seriously can't believe they printed a red landhate card that blows the fetches all the fair decks use away while leaving the lands that make 2-3 mana untouched. Gj, Wizards.
I'm excited to put Seeker of the Way into use when Iconic Masters drops as well. I'm wondering why you're not including Delver in your list. Any prowess deck is going to be very tempo-oriented, and Delver itself is essentially a one-time prowess creature that you can cast T1 and create a ton of pressure with. I'd cut the Augurs, which are essentially spells on a defensive creature to make room for them. We don't really want defensive creatures, and we want our spells to be actual spells for prowess. Not to mention that we're already going to be running at least 10-12 cantrips.
On the topic of cantrips, without a ton of fetches I like Ponder/Preordain more than Brainstorm because they let you get rid of dead cards (usually lands). Brainstorm is nice because it's instant, so it might be worth hanging on to some copies, but I'd test out the other ones first to see if you like them more.
I currently run a U/G version because I really value the permission from Circular Logic and other counterspells. You're right that Aquamoeba just doesn't cut it anymore, both because of changes to how damage works and because of the power creep of creatures. Borderland Explorer is okay, but the 1 toughness means it ends up trading with anything, and you often don't want to play it because your opponent has stumbled on land. I run a playset of Merfolk Looter and really like them. Once you untap with them they give you the same instant speed discard outlet as Aquamoeba, and quickly become a source of straight up card advantage. Ideally I'd like to have at least a bit of a red splash for Fiery Temper and Faithless Looting, since a lack of real removal is the deck's weakness. But 3-color is really hard to do in Pauper, so it might not be possible.
Haven't tried out Cunning Survivor yet, but it's on my list of things to test. It looks nice to force through a bit more damage against decks that go bigger than us.
Disenchant is worth considering. Instant speed can be well worth the additional mana.
I second this. Disenchant is my favorite for this exact reason.
Same here. Sundering Growth leaves you soft to Blood Moon, and Fragmentize leaves you soft to Chalice. Both are cards that see a lot of play and can easily come down Turn 2 and instantly lose you the game. Disenchant is the safest option.
Doubtful. There's a plethora of big dumb beaters at 6+ mana already available. The only 6 CMC cards that get run are Inferno Titan and Big Chandra. Both of them don't just put on a fast clock, they also sweep away our opponents creatures to give us a good board state.
I've had the same experience with Rancor. It's a super easy target, and opponents will cast removal on the creature I enchant with it to fizzle the enchantment and kill the creature at the same time. At the same time, it contributes to some of the deck's fastest starts as well.
I find being conservative with Rancor is where it really shines. I use it as a late-game boost to get over chump blockers and let my guys trade up for their bigger threats. Wait until they've already cast a removal spell or two on your E1 or Avatar, then stick it to your later threat. It does give explosive starts, but that's where it gets you blown out by a 2-for-1 well-timed removal spell.
I also run maindeck Dungroves and am planning on picking up 1-2 Rhonas, so having those 3-drops that are difficult to remove makes it much more attractive.
All this discussion and all the more i want to try to light splash 1 temple garden for Driven//Despair. It does everything this deck wants to do, from drawing to make your opp discard bunch of hands. even 2/3 tokens make this card super good on both side
That's the card I'm most excited about so far from HoD. I already often run an Abzan Version (for VoR and Abrupt Decay) instead of straight B/W, and it's guaranteed a sideboard slot at the very least.
long time reader/lurker of this particular deck design as I run a couple of lesser versions ever since a friend got me onto this design and especially love the offshoots that have been popping up as well (there was a cute Rapid Hybridization and Cloudfin Raptor concept a few pages back that caught my eye, for example).
Just wanted to jump in now since RLS has popped up; For those who are already use Narnams and fetches etc etc, does RLS now make a better case for Hidden Herbalists to expand our field quickly? I mean, an E1 into a HH into a RLS is a pretty fast 10 damage and as stated a few times when HH was discussed earlier that it makes Talara's more viable also.
You brought up the first thing that came to my mind. Another 2 mana fatty, to jam with Lupine Prototype, Myr Superion and Greenwheel Liberator. With this many payoff cards and 8 copies of Herbalist (including burning tree emissary), I'd say the deck is going to be very consistent.
I agree, even if I do like the +1/+1 counter interaction between Experiment One, Avatar of the Resolute and Strangleroot Geist, I think that cards like you've mentioned make a very strong case due to the sheer value.
Now, I know splashing gets mentioned from time to time here to mixed responses, but I haven't really seen many go down the G/R path and cards like the ones mentioned above draw me towards support cards like Temur Battle Rage and even Fling (even if it isn't quite what we're going for here, most of the creatures still constitute a hit of 5 to the face and a great response to any single target removal). Additionally, the recent Kari Zev's Expertise would be pretty great to cheat out any of the above beaters ready and waiting, while you still get to make an offensive with a bolstered line-up.
All that being said, as I don't really play much in a competitive setting, my playstyle is a bit of a fast and loose way to run for sure and as a result, I can't really speak to it's competition efficiency. I would be happy to know what you all think even if it is starting to move towards something a little different.
The usual suspects for splash discussion are White and Black, and the thing that they both bring is a major upgrade to our terrible lack of creature removal. Red gives us Bolt, which is at an all-time low of effectiveness in the current Death's Shadow/Eldrazi metagame.
The other issue is that there's already an established G/R aggro deck in Revolt Zoo. Once you add a red splash, you go "Wow Goblin Guide is the best one-drop in the meta. And wow, Kird Ape is a 2/3 for R with no downside!" Before you know it you're basically playing a worse version of Revolt Zoo.
Not trying to discourage you, I've seriously thought about running a red splash just to jam a bunch of sideboard Blood Moon to drop on turn 3 and get a free win against the big mana decks that normally wreck me.
There's a reason we're talking about Trinisphere for the sideboard. Against certain decks (Death's Shadow comes to mind) almost every card is 1 or 2 mana. It's incredible against Snapcaster, turning a 3 mana Snap-Path into 6 mana. Or against Ad Nauseum, a deck that we are utterly powerless to stop. Now their 0 CMC Lotus Blooms all cost 3, if they want to Angel's Grace/Ad Naus on our endstep they need 8 mana instead of 6, and the Pact of Negations they rely on aren't free any more.
As for locking ourselves out, the only thing we run that's under 3 mana is our dorks. You play them for your first turn or two, then drop the Trinisphere and you won't feel its effects at all while you're casting Stone Rain, Beast Within, or your fatties. I'll admit I haven't tried it out yet, but the logic behind putting a copy or two in the sideboard is pretty solid.
I dont think Trinisphere makes Lotus bloom cost 3. The text on suspend reads that you may cast the spell without paying its mana cost. So Trinisphere makes the Lotus Bloom cost 3 mana, but the suspend ability (which still costs 0 since it is not a mana cost bu an activated ability) lets them cast it without paying that mana cost. The other points stand.
No, it hits Suspend cards too. Trinisphere doesn't care about "without paying its mana cost" alternate payments. Trinisphere waits until everything else affecting cost has been determined, then makes sure that 3 mana has been paid before the spell can be played. I've been looking around online and it appears that the only mechanics that get around it are Delve and Convoke, because those are both technically paying for the Total Cost of the spell, not reducing it below 3.
Trinisphere doesn't work like other cost increasers because it isn't a cost increaser. Cost reducers (like Delve) and increasers (like Thalia) affect the up-front cost of a spell, but Trinisphere is more patient. It waits at the end of the line for everyone to show up with their gifts and demands, strolling in after everything is gone and popping the question:
"So, how much did they pay for ya?"
If the answer is anything less than three literal manas, then Trinisphere has some bad news for you. This is where a lot of people mess up with, say, Force of Will. Force of Will sure looks like it costs five mana. It even says so right on the card! Five mana, upper right.
Oh, but what's that? You say you aren't actually paying five literal manas, you're just exiling a blue card and Force of Will is okay calling it square? Well, then, Trinisphere has something to say about that. You see, after you exile the card and pay the life, Trinisphere is going to come asking for your three mana. It doesn't care about the converted mana cost - hell, Treasure Cruise costs eight - it just cares about how much literal mana you paid for your thing.
Two Sapphire Medallions dropping the cost of your Jace through the floor? Excuse me sir, you're going to have to pay a third mana for that.
There's a reason we're talking about Trinisphere for the sideboard. Against certain decks (Death's Shadow comes to mind) almost every card is 1 or 2 mana. It's incredible against Snapcaster, turning a 3 mana Snap-Path into 6 mana. Or against Ad Nauseum, a deck that we are utterly powerless to stop. Now their 0 CMC Lotus Blooms all cost 3, if they want to Angel's Grace/Ad Naus on our endstep they need 8 mana instead of 6, and the Pact of Negations they rely on aren't free any more.
As for locking ourselves out, the only thing we run that's under 3 mana is our dorks. You play them for your first turn or two, then drop the Trinisphere and you won't feel its effects at all while you're casting Stone Rain, Beast Within, or your fatties. I'll admit I haven't tried it out yet, but the logic behind putting a copy or two in the sideboard is pretty solid.
He's clearly worse than Gideon if you're behind, but he absolutely slams the door on aggro matchups if you resolve him with just a token or two out. You drop him, +1, and then gain 2-6 life. The aggro opponent HAS to do 5 points of damage him immediately or you'll just start gaining insurmountable amounts of life. Except you have a token or two untapped that you'll happily save him with.... and gain more life while doing so. Seriously, he's just insane against anything trying to race you, which is like half the meta. Oh and his ulti is easy to obtain and crushes the two top strategies (Eldrazi Tron and DS) pretty hard.
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arbor Elf
1 Beast Within
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Blood Moon
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Inferno Titan
3 Molten Rain
2 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4 Stone Rain
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Choke
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Trinisphere
My local meta is still in flux, but there are a ton of blue Jace deck, Bloodbraid decks, and Tron, and a few Valakut, Storm, and Ensnaring bridge artifact decks. Aggro has always been quite light, though sometimes some Affinity people show up. Thoughts?
As an aside, I seriously can't believe they printed a red landhate card that blows the fetches all the fair decks use away while leaving the lands that make 2-3 mana untouched. Gj, Wizards.
On the topic of cantrips, without a ton of fetches I like Ponder/Preordain more than Brainstorm because they let you get rid of dead cards (usually lands). Brainstorm is nice because it's instant, so it might be worth hanging on to some copies, but I'd test out the other ones first to see if you like them more.
Haven't tried out Cunning Survivor yet, but it's on my list of things to test. It looks nice to force through a bit more damage against decks that go bigger than us.
Same here. Sundering Growth leaves you soft to Blood Moon, and Fragmentize leaves you soft to Chalice. Both are cards that see a lot of play and can easily come down Turn 2 and instantly lose you the game. Disenchant is the safest option.
I find being conservative with Rancor is where it really shines. I use it as a late-game boost to get over chump blockers and let my guys trade up for their bigger threats. Wait until they've already cast a removal spell or two on your E1 or Avatar, then stick it to your later threat. It does give explosive starts, but that's where it gets you blown out by a 2-for-1 well-timed removal spell.
I also run maindeck Dungroves and am planning on picking up 1-2 Rhonas, so having those 3-drops that are difficult to remove makes it much more attractive.
That's the card I'm most excited about so far from HoD. I already often run an Abzan Version (for VoR and Abrupt Decay) instead of straight B/W, and it's guaranteed a sideboard slot at the very least.
The usual suspects for splash discussion are White and Black, and the thing that they both bring is a major upgrade to our terrible lack of creature removal. Red gives us Bolt, which is at an all-time low of effectiveness in the current Death's Shadow/Eldrazi metagame.
The other issue is that there's already an established G/R aggro deck in Revolt Zoo. Once you add a red splash, you go "Wow Goblin Guide is the best one-drop in the meta. And wow, Kird Ape is a 2/3 for R with no downside!" Before you know it you're basically playing a worse version of Revolt Zoo.
Not trying to discourage you, I've seriously thought about running a red splash just to jam a bunch of sideboard Blood Moon to drop on turn 3 and get a free win against the big mana decks that normally wreck me.
No, it hits Suspend cards too. Trinisphere doesn't care about "without paying its mana cost" alternate payments. Trinisphere waits until everything else affecting cost has been determined, then makes sure that 3 mana has been paid before the spell can be played. I've been looking around online and it appears that the only mechanics that get around it are Delve and Convoke, because those are both technically paying for the Total Cost of the spell, not reducing it below 3.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29712_18-Rules-Situations-You-Must-Know-For-Grand-Prix-New-Jersey.html
As for locking ourselves out, the only thing we run that's under 3 mana is our dorks. You play them for your first turn or two, then drop the Trinisphere and you won't feel its effects at all while you're casting Stone Rain, Beast Within, or your fatties. I'll admit I haven't tried it out yet, but the logic behind putting a copy or two in the sideboard is pretty solid.
Don't drop him.