glad to see it caught your eyes too Kathal I came to the same conclusion and drafted a mid rangey reanimator deck. turn 2 pentad, turn 3 pig/breach is pretty appealing to me.
Tested a hybrid build of Narset + Griselbrand yesterday evening (build it and played 20+ goldfish games). Thoughts:
It does not really work. Narset adds so many "bad" cards to the deck (to be able to get actually benefits of her) that it is not really worth it. However, what I noticed was, that Pull from Eternity combined with both Serum Powder and Gemstone Caverns led to some very interesting turn 2 kills via Griselbrand. How it works: You are on the draw, use Powder or Gemstone Cavern (ideally) to exile Griselbrand, so you can go for Pull into Vengeance on turn 2. Increased the speed (and also the consisntency) by quite a noticeable margin.
So, next version I will try is a Powder version, something I wanted to do since quite a while.
Greetings,
Kathal
can you use pull from eternity to a griselbrand that was exiled via surgical extraction?
Phoenix was once a good match-up, since they included MD Surgical's it kinda tipped. Since it is the most popular deck atm, it is kinda iffy to say it this way.
Besides this, in general I would advise against playing/learning Griselbanned. The hassle of learning the deck is not really worth it, when there are other decks out there, which are as good or even better than Griselbanned but way easier to learn.
Greetings,
Kathal
i agree with kathal..the deck can be "emotionall taxing"..due to it's "glass cannon" nature it has inconsistency issues sometimes it gives you that turn 2 goldfish but most of the time the deck just beats itself silly or due to distruption it just folds up with you not being able to find the pieces in time to combo off..and with the current meta today GY hate is on the uptick with dredge & phoenix decks all over the place forcing other decks to even mainboard GY hate..let's wait and see if we can benefit from the new london mulligan if it sticks and what modern horizions has to offer us..maybe we can get new tools to make the deck more reliably consistent..one can dream of the day entomb & sneak attack makes it to our main deck.
I just played few games with my Griselboy at my LGS. I find it impossible to win with Death's Shadow. What to do against them?
You pray to dodge them, as simple as it is.
Only Chalice tips the match-up somewhat, and even than it is atrocious. It is nearly as bad as the old Infect match-up was.
Played today at a local event with some nice prices:
Round 1 vs Spirits:
Game 1 won by playing around CoCo into Queller but not Wanderer (he had a Lord and I had a SSG to pay, but he would be 2/2). Got rewarded, since he had a Queller in hand.
Game 2 nothing special happened, Griseldaddy ftw.
Round 2 vs UR Control (no Moons)
Game 1 I had the turn three combo based on a DD Reanimate line, but I whiffed completely (drew 10 lands from the draw 14). Died to Bolt + Snap Bolt the following turn.
Game 2 I had a clunky hand and got punished for it. Should have mulled it down. Also made a mistake by playing TTB mainphase, should have been in his upkeep in response to the last Ancestral counter coming off.
Round 3 vs Goblin Prison
Game 1 I mulled to 4...
Game 2 I won quite easy on turn 3 thanks to a DD line through a Chalice on 2 (splice action baby)
Game 3 I won through Bridge + Eidolon by using Abrade in Bridge to get an attack off with Griselbrand which gained me enough life to be able to win afterwards.
Round 4 vs Dredge
Game 1 I had the turn 3 Wurm, was enough to win
Game 2 I had the turn 2 Griselbrand (DD line again), was enough (even though I needed to draw my whole deck)
Round 5 vs Devoted Druid ID
Played it out for the price split
Game 1 I mulled down to 4, no way I this
Game I kept a clunky double removal hand (Axe + K-Return). Got punished by a Postmortem Lunge from them. He didn't play them last week so I didn't expect it.
Result: 3-1-1
Should have won the game vs UR though.
Edit says: This was the first time ever, that Dispersal was useful (in theory). I played some games vs R Prison afterwards, he established a board with: Bridge, double Needle (Griselbrand + Borbor), double Welding Jar. The two Abrades that I had looked pretty old here
Using Dispersal as an instant into a Wurm attack into another Dispersal to overall get rid of Bridge was the only line possible to win here. Hence, I might add a Watery Grave than to the deck.
In that case it does. You only have a single legal target (with Goryo's Vengeance targeting Griselbrand), when this one target becomes invalid the spell fizzels. Since the Spell is TTB + Goyro's, both fizzel.
Same thing happens if you splice Goryo's on Shoal and the target gets removed.
Greetings,
Kathal
is it the same when you cast nourishing shoal splicing breach..and an opponent cast skullcrack in response does the breach also fizzles due to not being able to gain life?
just curious..if i cast goryo's vengeance splicing through the breach targeting a griselbrand in my graveyard and my opponent responds by casting a surgical extraction on griselbrand does the through the breach fizzles?
about the surveil mechanic say i cast a discovery//dispersal and i choose to bin a land & a worldspine wurm.do i shuffle the wurm first then draw?..or do i draw first then shuffle the wurm?
have been very busy in real life, I think there was some discussion back there that I missed that I'll try to get to on the weekend. In the mean time, I was on a friend's stream who was jamming grishoalbrand and I did some play-along commentary that I can link later for those who wants to follow along.
Hey just watched your interview in manadeprived.com really enjoyed it..pity it was short one..If your not to busy hope you can make a more in depth sideboard guide...thanks!
Yup as Manadeprived said, the first article is up there. I also put together a pretty detailed tournament report. Check it out if you want to read about my weekend..
I've had pretty good success vs. Eldrazi Tron but I think it's more to do with the fact that the deck was never as good as it was hyped up to be (for e.g., see the decline in metagame share and see Todd Stevens having dropped it recently). I'd say it's a 55/45 matchup. I've been on the fence about Blood Moon. I would certainly not bring it in on the draw, and on the play it's much closer. The presence of Mind Stones has waxed and waned and seeing those in game 1 will influence my decision, as well as the recent trends in these lists.
Generally speaking, their postboard deck gets significantly better. They bring in a lot of hateful cards ranging from relics to cages to surgicals. As such, I would lean towards bringing in Blood Moons on the play as it can (rarely) be a win condition and at worst will slow them down, which we may be forced to do with the hate (not to mention chalice on 2, which is annoying but can be played around with shoal splicing vengeance or breach).
As for what to sideboard in/out:
*take out all brutalities
*postboard games are going to be less about speed, so I'd take out all but one ritual
*it's not about speed (plus it's a 2 cmc card), so I'm fine cutting the manamorphose
*I would bring in Moons on the play, and perhaps Bontu's on the draw.
*I would bring in all Lightning Axes you have.
Thanks for the advice..how about cutting on the any of the cantrips?
ha that's flattering but unfortunately my full time job wouldn't allow me to do that. It has been a pet project (goal?) of mine to make some gameplay videos though, and I have been marking games I find to be incredible/remarkable for one reason or another when I log games. So maybe I'll make it a goal to make some Grishoalbrand videos within this year..:eek:
Yes yes yes!
Yeah you should post some videos man..it's really hard to find a video that you can actually see some plays from a player that's already used to the deck..most videos i see are noobs that you can't learn anything that you can use on a competitive tournament..on that note what do you usually board out on the eldrazitron matchup?..is blood moon even worth it?..most of them are packing maps & minds stones..
Here's a mini report on the Modern Challenge that I won last week
Round 1 vs. D00mwake (UG Merfolk, OTD)
G1: I keep a h and of temple, land Vengeance, Whispers, Griselbrand, Shoal, Breach. Base plan is to discard Griselbrand to t2 Night's Whisper and combo t3. He plays some new green dorks but doesn't do anything relevant. I combo t3
+2 Bontu's +1 Pact +1 Anger +1 Lightning Axe
-2 Ritual -1 Whisper -1 Brutality -1 Through the Breach
I board out a breach because WIth their clock and disruption I don't think I'm making it out to t5 very often. Especially on the draw I'm on full defensive mode
g2: I mull a good 7 with Vengeance, cantrips, Pact etc but no land, into no land 6 and 5 and keep a 4 with land, SSG, looting, x. Funny when you still have a realistic chance as long as you have a land and looting, basically. I get run over.
g3: I keep a mediocre hand of 4 lands, looting, whisper, anger. By turn 2 I have drawn into Breach, Griselbrand, Shoal and SSG so my plan is now well defined. His t3 involves him extending into 3 creatuers so I plan on tapping out with SSG to try and combo, as I'm not lnog for the world. I draw a Wurm for the turn and both my constraints become relaxed and I win.
1-0 (2-1)
Round 2 vs. Gmanlsa (GB Tron, OTP)
g1 I start with a nutty hand of 2 lands, looting, vengeance, Griselbrand and Wurm. His turn 1 is a Tower into Chromatic Star. My next turn is a bit better
+2 Shattering Spree
-1 Brutality -1 Ritual
This matchup is such a joke that I wouldn't even bother with Blood Moon OTP.
G2 I start with a reasonable hand of each of my 3 fatties, temple, mountain, looting, hug. He insists on being the fun police with a t1 relic and t2 brutality taking away my hug. I eventually looting into a vengeance and I have a decision to ditch Griselbrand or hold him to draw into breach. I bin the griselbrand and try to draw into another Vengeance, a Spree, or Breach a Wurm for my win condition. his t4 tron produces a wurmcoil and I never get close
G3 i start with 2 lands, rit, SSG, looting, borb, grisel. My Looting hits a Vengeance and I start to wonder if today's the day.
2-0 (2-1)
Round 3 vs. SmoiL (Eldrazi Tron, OTD)
g1 I keep a hand of 2 lands, wurm, SSG, whispers, hug and Vengeance. Pretty good. He leads on Mine+Chalice for 0, so he obviously has another Chalice. I temple a Breach on bottom and he casts an irrelevant chalice for 1. He misses his third landdrop which makes me wonder about his keep. His board consisted of a Ballista for 1, chalice for 1, chalice for 0, GQ and Mine when I breached in a Wurm on turn 4
+2 Shatternig Spree +1 Bontu's +1 Lightning Axe
-1 Brutality -2 Ritual -1 Temple on the play
I've actually had Etron players insist on Chalice for 1 even postboard so if you observe that, don't bother with Lightning axe
g2 I have a good hand of 3 lands, 2 Whispers, Griselbrand and Breach and draw a ssg t1. He plays a chalice for 1 again and then plays a temple into TKS on t3 and takes away my Griselbrand when I had 2 Breaches. Rude. His t4 consisted of playing a Smasher to smash me to 8. My turn 4 consisted of drawing another fast mana and breaching in a Wurm for 15. He's now at 5 with TKS and Smasher while I'm at 8 with 3 angry 5/5 wurms plus a Blood Crypt, Breach and Shoal. I'm winning the race for now but this can be swung around in his favor by stuff like All is Dust, running smashers/Endbringers. Sure enough, on his next turn he plays another smasher such that his board is now Smasherx2 and TKS. He passes and I present lethal and we trade off 2 of our creatuers and he chumps with TKS which draws me a hug (hand is now hug, spree, shoal, breach, Crypt). It's going to be problematic if he draws another 5/5 or an All is Dust so I work towards getting a second breach going. I hug pitching Spree and SHoal to pick up a rit, wurm and looting. So I'm set up to fight through another blocker/All is Dust next turn with another Breached Wrum. Of course he draws a TKS and takes away my Breach. I draw a blank and he chumps my wurm, going down to 3. I draw another Breach off of the TKS and his topdecked Smasher is made obsolete next turn
3-0 (2-0)
Round 4 vs. Juzam-Djinn84 (Storm, OTP)
g1 I recognize his name as a storm grinder so I know I'm in for a ride. I keep a hand of 2 lands, 2 Vengeances, griselbrand and SSG. On my t2 i don't draw anything and pass, aiming to discard to handsize next turn (I have SSG+2 vengeances to play through a remand). He plays a baral on t3 but does not kill me. I EoT Vengeance with my SSG, and he has the remand. I untap and Vengeance again for the win
g2 i keep a mediocre hand that never draws a Vengeance with Griselbrand in the bin. I dig 22 cards deep to no avail. He plays 2 Goblins and a Baral and beats em down
g3 I mull a no land 7 into a hand with 2 lands, Vengeance, Breach and Griselbrand. Seems reasonable enough.I scry a SSG to the bottom looking for cantrips. His turn 2 Electromancer sends me into a panic and of course I draw a Brutality like a professional and kill the goblin. I punt t3 when I main phase Vengeance with him at 3 lands and nothing else. I get remanded and lose tempo. thankfully he doesn't murder me turn 4 and I go for it again main phase (I think him having 3 lands vs. 4 is a big difference in terms of what he needs to go off next turn). He uses 2 of his 3 open mana to cast Peer through Depth, prsumably looking for dispel. He doesn't have it and I kill him t4
4-0 (2-1)
Round 5 vs. toondoslav (GW elves, otp)
I keep a very speculative hand of temple, whisper, rit, shoal, wurm, griselbrand, Breach. I have 2 shots at a land and then I'd be in business. I scry another temple to the top while he plays a bunch of dorks. On his turn 2 he spews 11 points of damage onto play. On my turn 3 I play my third land, play a ritual, shoal pitch wurm splice breach, breaching Griselbrand. My mana is pretty constrained here but I cannot give him a chance to draw an archdruid or an ezuri. I end fizzling because my deck size was divisible by 7 with 4 remainder. I end the turn with 4 cards left in deck, 5 lands and 2 Vengeances in hand, and a Borb in the GY with the opponent at 13 and I pray he doesn't kill me. He doesn't topdeck and swings for 11 and i kill him with borb
Brutailty is good in theory but being OTD vs OTP for the turn 2 play can make a world of a difference
g2 I keep a hand with 2 lands, vengeance, phose, shoal, Bontu's and Anger. Great. He mulls to 5 and I feel a RIP to the face in my future. his first 2 turns consists of t1 land heritage druid, t2 land nothing. I don't draw business for a while so I just sculpt my hand. He plays a t3 RIP and keeps beating me down his 1/1. I draw enough mana so I cast a SSG to halt his Heritage druid assault. He then draws his 4th land and plays ezuri, which is bad news bears. I attack with SSG with the plan to wipe away ezuri after. He makes the mistake of blocking SSG with Heritage Druid and then regeneration it, tapping him out, letting my Bontu's sweep his board. I keep drawing Vengeances after though and he draws a Vizier and a Nettle afterwards, and my life is starting to get reallly low with jsut breaches but nothing else in my hand. I finally draw a griselbrand but get a really bad draw 7 or two, so I set up a breach Griselbrand next turn. He plays a selfless spirit and attacks. I make a gigantic mistake of breaching and attacking with Griselbrand the next turn, where he obviously blocked then sacced to deny lifelink. I should've obviously waited for him to attack with his Nettle Sentinel to block it. THankfully I don't get punished and I finally get there in 10 turns
5-0 (2-0)
Round 6 vs. TomatoCheese (GB Tron, OTD)
g1 I keep a hand of 2 swamps, 2 shoals, wurm, griselbrand and vengeance and chuckle at his t1 tower+Sphere. I plan on t1 land, t2 discard griselbrand, t3 kill. He doesn't have discard and I kill him t3
SB: same as above
g2 I keep a very speculative hand of 2 Vengeances, land, ssg, spree, phose, shoal. His first 2 turns concists of a swamp+Marsh and a relic, which complicates things for my double Vengeance hand. I manaphose into a land and spree his relic+map and he gets no value out of either of those. I draw into looting+Griselbrand by t4 and win.
6-0 (2-0)
Round 7 vs. Miguelcaster (Eldrazi & Taxes, OTP)
I look him up as the only other undefeated and groan at his history of playing E&T. I keep a hand that kills him t4 even through a t3 TKS
g2 and g3 plays the same. I'm ruined by a mixture of thalias and RIP. I would try Blood Moons OTP because their mana base without Vials is putrid
6-1 (1-2)
Quarterfinals vs. TomatoCheese (GB Tron, OTP)
g1 I keep a 1 lander with wurms, Vengeance, Griselbrand and Looting. keep. Sucks that the second land is a Temple but thankfully he doesn't have a Brutality and I win g3
SB: Same as above
g2: I mull a no land 7 into temple, swamp, 2 whispers, hug, wurm. he has t3 tron+relic.while I keep cantripping and eventually draw into breach+fatty, only to be thoughtseized but thankfully he's durling around with eggs and Thragtusk. I draw into a Shoal+Breach+Borb+wurm+4 lands, so I shoal pitch borb breaching in wurm when he's at 23. this line is pretty weak vs. wurmcoil but he hadn't played it for 2 turns after tron so i figured that wasn't a thing. I pass confidently and he slams wurmcoil. Thankfully I did splice the breach so I have 4 lands+whisper+ssg+Breach leftover. My whisper draws me into another wurm. He attacks with wurmcoil (no block) and then plays a ballista for 6, which seals the deal as I breach in a wurm and attack 30 points of power
7-1 (2-0)
Semifinals vs eronkim (OTP, Burn)
Before g1 I'm doing some research and realize 1 of the player has a bunch of 5-0s with lantern and grixis shadows, so I'm praying he loses in the semis
g1 I keep a hand of 2 temples, mountain, looting, ssg, phose, wurm. Not the most exciting hand. He goes foundry+goblin guide revealing griselbrand. I find a Vengeance with my looting and he tapped down for swifty and bolt so I don't have to worry about skullcrack effects while I kill him t3
+2 Pact +1 Lightning Axe
-3 Whispers
g2 I keep a pretty loose hand of 3 temple, montain, swamp, rit, shoalx2, wurm. But gain 11 vs burn seems good so whatever. I draw a Griselbrand then scry another land to the top for Guide. next turn I draw a temple and scry breach to the top. Though I'm already at 11, i have 2 lands and a hand of 2 shoals, wurm, rit, griselbrand with a Breach next turn, so I feel OK. I don't shoal while he's tapped out and take a risk that he doesn't have skullcrack effects and I can combo next turn. His next turn is a Molten Rain to set me back (?!?!) I end up in the game state that I shared with you above, and ended up stopping rather than keep going. I took the hit, did a Brutality check and won the turn after
8-1 (2-0)
Finals vs. caux12 (Burn, OTD)
Thankfully Jadoth on the other side lost playing lantern and now I get to face a good matchup. I have a hand that has combo pieces but 2 too many whispers. thankfully I t1 loot away a Griselbrand and topdeck a Vengeance t2. I wait until the end of his next turn as not to get blown out by Skullcrack (skullcrack in response to Vengeance renders griselbrand to nothing).he ends up tapping out for Eidolon so I am free to carefully combo off while being mindful of the Eidolon on t3
SB: same as above. Consider bringing chalices in OTP
g2 I mull a no land 7 into 5 red cards and a swamp into 2 mountains, hug, looting and pact. I shrug and keep. I actually make a game out of it by drawing into vengeance/brutality etc while he runs out of gas. He slams a relic a tur nbefore I can Vengeance back a Griselbrand and that is that
g3 I have 2 temples, looting, phose, vengeance, chalice, breach and scry a SSG to the bottom. t2 I draw Vengeance, loot into griselbrand with 2 vengeances in hand. Opponent taps out on his t2, and it just feels like it's my day. I kill him and take down the whole thing.
TLDR: I played the matchup bingo well, and had a bunch of t3/t4 kills
Nice games..can you put your SB list?..really interested on seeing it..thanks!
A 1 or 2cc artifact/enchantment that grants our graveyard hexproof or a black pull from eternity or a black instant like goryo's vengeance only it targets any creature that have been exiled would be nice..
I'm going for PPTQ this weekend and I'm planning to take my pet deck since last year I wasn't able to play magic at all and I am exicted to get back to modern again. I went to a tourney 2 weeks ago and posted my list here. Only a few changes will be made, but before I wanted to ask for forum wisdom.
1- What are the risks of going below 19 lands (seems the consensus)? I have played several matches using a list from an asian guy that I am unable to find now in which he played 17 lands and added +2 Borbo. I have yet to have an issue with the lands. The closest thing to a land trouble that has happened was that I once was 1 land short of killing my opponent with a borbo in play, but he scooped anyway when the count added up to five (he was at 17). Since I have only played 20 games, which I consider a small sample, I am considering -1 Borbo, +1 land. The extra borbos have been useful, as I described in my last post vs counters-company
2- In my last list I had shatterstorm in my sb. I am willing to replace it, but I'd like to know what would be the best card to replace it with. I have been thinking about shattering spree of course, but also thought that it might be too red intensive (by force maybe?) and that engineered explosives provides extra flexibility overall, especially vs rest in peace. As a curiosity, they once saved me against empty the warrens against storm.
3- What is the sb plan against Tron? The moons look too obvious, but they might just delay the go-over-the-top game and not the aggro part, which could be an issue combined with relics and surgical extractions
I been using a grishoalbrand list with an 18 lands..so far i have no problem with it..i'm curious about putting 1 geier reach sanitarium..any pros & cons using it?
how about an abrade or 2 in the SB?..ensnaring bridge is really goin to be a real problem with this deck..
can you use pull from eternity to a griselbrand that was exiled via surgical extraction?
i agree with kathal..the deck can be "emotionall taxing"..due to it's "glass cannon" nature it has inconsistency issues sometimes it gives you that turn 2 goldfish but most of the time the deck just beats itself silly or due to distruption it just folds up with you not being able to find the pieces in time to combo off..and with the current meta today GY hate is on the uptick with dredge & phoenix decks all over the place forcing other decks to even mainboard GY hate..let's wait and see if we can benefit from the new london mulligan if it sticks and what modern horizions has to offer us..maybe we can get new tools to make the deck more reliably consistent..one can dream of the day entomb & sneak attack makes it to our main deck.
what match-ups do you usually board in the thoughtseize's & kozilek's return?..isn't 18 lands a li'l greedy?
is it the same when you cast nourishing shoal splicing breach..and an opponent cast skullcrack in response does the breach also fizzles due to not being able to gain life?
Hey just watched your interview in manadeprived.com really enjoyed it..pity it was short one..If your not to busy hope you can make a more in depth sideboard guide...thanks!
Thanks for the tourney report really appreciate the effort!..will try your SB guide..
Thanks for the advice..how about cutting on the any of the cantrips?
Yeah you should post some videos man..it's really hard to find a video that you can actually see some plays from a player that's already used to the deck..most videos i see are noobs that you can't learn anything that you can use on a competitive tournament..on that note what do you usually board out on the eldrazitron matchup?..is blood moon even worth it?..most of them are packing maps & minds stones..
Jeff hoogland piloting grishoalbrand to a 4-1 finish on thanksgiving..pretty sure he's using finalnub's list..
Nice games..can you put your SB list?..really interested on seeing it..thanks!
I been using a grishoalbrand list with an 18 lands..so far i have no problem with it..i'm curious about putting 1 geier reach sanitarium..any pros & cons using it?