Being on the GB build myself and having run Nykthos for quite some time before switching to Westvale, my vote is STRONGLY for Westvale. You will flip it more than you think you would and it will win you games you otherwise wouldn't have. It's a land and a finishing spell all in one. Love the card, especially with push being the "removal card of choice" rather than Path these days.
GW w/ Combo, Shaper's in the board. I miss Kitchen Finks but finding slots seems impossible in the GW deck.
I'm rewatching these, hope to catch you again live soon. I noticed two Ewits in one list the other day, just something you're doing with GW? Or just trying it out overall? I figured it was just more resilience for the combo pieces of GW.
I've been running just two dismember in my GB build SB, I've noticed many GW lists run 3 path, any thoughts on adding a 3rd removal spell into GB SB? A 3rd dismember seems painful, abrupt decay seems like an option but doesn't kill everything we would want to.
Watching your GB stream turned me to dropping Nykthos for Westvale, best change I've made to the deck in so long. Flipping westvale is a ton of fun and it happens much more often than I thought it would.
Thanks again for all the Q & A and the time you put into streaming, I've learned some things.
As a 2 i can see this working, but it is not good at game two when facing mass removal. I am thinking of adding joraga warcaller, it can work as an one mana elf and mana sink when we have the land online. Having only ezuri is not reliable.
I have had the same thoughts about Joraga and playtested him extensively. He feels really bad as the "one drop" that you're proposing. In theory you'd use him like that, but it always feels bad. I just found him lackluster when I played him. You mentioned that Ezuri is not enough, I tend to agree. You're either going to want to run the Druid/Vizier combo in GW, or Shaman/Ezuri in GB to give you alternate plans for either build. Westvale Abbey is great in both builds. I'm on the 4 Shaman/3 Ezuri/1 Westvale Abbey for wincon's plan, and it feels pretty darn good.
I'd been running Nykthos over Westvale Abbey, since I've switched to Westvale that card has consistently overperformed and won me games, even some I wouldn't or shouldn't have won otherwise.
[quote from="DB0013 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/767834-collected-company-elves?comment=1386"]Has anyone seen the Unclaimed Territory land from the new spoilers? looks solid[/quotem]
Do we need additional mana fixing beyond the duals and 4 caverns? Obviously wouldn't play this over cavern.
Does anyone know where you could go to find some good elves content? There is a shocking lack of it out on the internet, and what is there is often rife with misplays.
If you want GB content, I can help with that like a month from now - although theres a ton of backed up content on my Twitch already. If you want GW content, VIPowL is streaming a bit more nowadays.
Heard a rumor there may be a post coming from you about Lead the Stampede...
Agree with more information needed, I'm also open to stating that we can't definitely say that mono green isn't the way to go, but we've got to agree this has to be a budget deck. Even if you're mono green you don't rock a 5 card sideboard.
Again, that being said, who the heck knows. Fast and dirty mono green FTW.
RE: the mono green deck that won an SCG IQ...I can't help but believe this is a budget deck/small event result. You cant honestly play with a sideboard like that and it not be, even mono green. That being said, even mono green elves is a powerful deck with the proper draws. Honestly for a "budget" competitive modern deck, mono green elves should be high on peoples list. Very powerful, fun to learn and play, and has some game to it. Easily upgraded into a GB, GW, or GBW build from there.
For the deck in question, having 12 mana dorks basically guarantees really quick acceleration even through things like fatal push. Reid duke played 4 boreal druid in his build over Nettle's for similar reasons (insuring that t2 3 mana acceleration). Joraga Warcaller gives an additional mana sink to guarantee that you have something to spend all that mana on around turn 4-5.
Passing up all the bullets and utility cards that white and black offer, not to mention lands like Cavern of Souls, Horizon Canopy, and Gilt-Leaf Palace just seems wrong to me. All of that said, there is no current conclusion as to the best way to build elves, maybe we're all just wrong and fast and dirty mono green is the best way to go.
Rather than thinking about what would "beat scapeshift" by harming scapeshift, I think it's more likely that something gets printed that helps us by making us faster or having a bigger/better effect than we already have with an existing card. Some sort of green sun's zenith, natural order, or glimpse of nature effect could be the thing that pushes us up just a bit quicker than we are now.
Twitch finally uploaded my stream for the day, I suggest watching the middle league as it was a 4-1, and the 5c Deaths Shadow match is a great game to look at and analyse.
Really enjoying two Nissa, Vital Force in the board, and I also plan on testing some Garruk Relentless in the board at some point in the future.(maybe up to 3 of them to replace Lead!)
LOVE the stream Syreal. Really appreciate it as an elves player learning the ropes. Keep em coming!
Seeing a lot of talk about thought knot brewing. It's definitely a good card, but what exactly are we attempting to do with it? Are we using it to disrupt potential sweepers or combo? That seems to be the main "weakness" it could help with? If that's the case, does it come down quick enough to accomplish that? Turn 3 on the play may work, but turn 3 on the draw would likely be to late to stop a sweeper or combo card in many scenarios, especially post board where people are mulliganing into their sideboard cards.
Perhaps just some ignorance on my part, just curious what void people see this card filling in the deck.
Doesn't seem like something we'd want to Chord for, isn't an elf, and can't Company into it. Those seem like three pretty large strikes for a deck that assumes much of its power from synergy amongst those cards. Especially if we're going to be jamming 3-4 of them main. Admittedly I haven't play tested the card and am intrigued, hoping for some knowledge here.
I agree entirely here. I think the space is much better filled with other things, particularly selfless spirits, rec sages, etc... (other sideboard cards in mainboard slots for game 1 utility)
I played tks to a top 8 finish. Basically, I used it to fight anger, bolts and the two decks we have a hard time with: shapeshifter variant and tron. It can also come against control, burn and creatureless combo. I put them in the sideboard and used them in tandem with discard. Now I am exploring options with counterspell. What it basically does is give us a transformational sideboard.
Not 100% convinced, but it worked before foe me, so now I'm trying it with UG.
Thanks for the info! I'm GB and on the thoughtseize plan to fight sweepers and combo. Sometimes it's good enough but having that extra info and disruption is what peaked my interest. The casting cost and potential lack of synergy are what keep giving me pause.
Highly interested in the counterspell idea. Seems like splashing for that could be good to protect our "combo", similar to how spell spierce worked for infect.
Going three color seems optimal (either GWU or GBU), wondering if blue has enough impactful cards to make straight GU an option. Phantasmal image, Spell Pierce, Dispel, Spreading Seas, Nissa, Hurkyl's Recall, Ceremonious Rejection, Swan Song, heck even Kira, Great Glass Spinner are cards that come to mind if we went straight GU. GU would seem to be on the "hold for the alpha strike with Ezuri plan with counter backup". I enjoy Shaman so much I'm not sure I could do it, just throwing ideas out there.
Seeing a lot of talk about thought knot brewing. It's definitely a good card, but what exactly are we attempting to do with it? Are we using it to disrupt potential sweepers or combo? That seems to be the main "weakness" it could help with? If that's the case, does it come down quick enough to accomplish that? Turn 3 on the play may work, but turn 3 on the draw would likely be to late to stop a sweeper or combo card in many scenarios, especially post board where people are mulliganing into their sideboard cards.
Perhaps just some ignorance on my part, just curious what void people see this card filling in the deck.
Doesn't seem like something we'd want to Chord for, isn't an elf, and can't Company into it. Those seem like three pretty large strikes for a deck that assumes much of its power from synergy amongst those cards. Especially if we're going to be jamming 3-4 of them main. Admittedly I haven't play tested the card and am intrigued, hoping for some knowledge here.
I agree entirely here. I think the space is much better filled with other things, particularly selfless spirits, rec sages, etc... (other sideboard cards in mainboard slots for game 1 utility)
I played tks to a top 8 finish. Basically, I used it to fight anger, bolts and the two decks we have a hard time with: shapeshifter variant and tron. It can also come against control, burn and creatureless combo. I put them in the sideboard and used them in tandem with discard. Now I am exploring options with counterspell. What it basically does is give us a transformational sideboard.
Not 100% convinced, but it worked before foe me, so now I'm trying it with UG.
Thanks for the info! I'm GB and on the thoughtseize plan to fight sweepers and combo. Sometimes it's good enough but having that extra info and disruption is what peaked my interest. The casting cost and potential lack of synergy are what keep giving me pause.
Highly interested in the counterspell idea. Seems like splashing for that could be good to protect our "combo", similar to how spell spierce worked for infect.
Going three color seems optimal (either GWU or GBU), wondering if blue has enough impactful cards to make straight GU an option. Phantasmal image, Spell Pierce, Dispel, Spreading Seas, Nissa, Hurkyl's Recall, Ceremonious Rejection, Swan Song, heck even Kira, Great Glass Spinner are cards that come to mind if we went straight GU. GU would seem to be on the "hold for the alpha strike with Ezuri plan with counter backup". I enjoy Shaman so much I'm not sure I could do it, just throwing ideas out there.
If you can't afford Thoughtseize in GB elves sideboard, would Stain the Mind or Inquisition of Kozilek be solid replacements?
Don't forget to consider Duress. It's going to hit all those sweepers, plus planeswalkers, troublesome artifact, etc. Duress will come down more quickly than Stain. If it were me I'd be between Duress and Inquisition.
Seeing a lot of talk about thought knot brewing. It's definitely a good card, but what exactly are we attempting to do with it? Are we using it to disrupt potential sweepers or combo? That seems to be the main "weakness" it could help with? If that's the case, does it come down quick enough to accomplish that? Turn 3 on the play may work, but turn 3 on the draw would likely be to late to stop a sweeper or combo card in many scenarios, especially post board where people are mulliganing into their sideboard cards.
Perhaps just some ignorance on my part, just curious what void people see this card filling in the deck.
Doesn't seem like something we'd want to Chord for, isn't an elf, and can't Company into it. Those seem like three pretty large strikes for a deck that assumes much of its power from synergy amongst those cards. Especially if we're going to be jamming 3-4 of them main. Admittedly I haven't play tested the card and am intrigued, hoping for some knowledge here.
Personally I would cut the elves of deep shadow for a one of Ezuri. Gives an alt win plan and a toolbox regen ability. Not sure I'd maindeck thoughtseize either, would almost certainly run Chord or Lead in those 3 slots.
Boreal, wastes, and cavern give 12 colorless sources for TNS, seems good enough.
Being on the GB build myself and having run Nykthos for quite some time before switching to Westvale, my vote is STRONGLY for Westvale. You will flip it more than you think you would and it will win you games you otherwise wouldn't have. It's a land and a finishing spell all in one. Love the card, especially with push being the "removal card of choice" rather than Path these days.
I'm rewatching these, hope to catch you again live soon. I noticed two Ewits in one list the other day, just something you're doing with GW? Or just trying it out overall? I figured it was just more resilience for the combo pieces of GW.
I've been running just two dismember in my GB build SB, I've noticed many GW lists run 3 path, any thoughts on adding a 3rd removal spell into GB SB? A 3rd dismember seems painful, abrupt decay seems like an option but doesn't kill everything we would want to.
Watching your GB stream turned me to dropping Nykthos for Westvale, best change I've made to the deck in so long. Flipping westvale is a ton of fun and it happens much more often than I thought it would.
Thanks again for all the Q & A and the time you put into streaming, I've learned some things.
I have had the same thoughts about Joraga and playtested him extensively. He feels really bad as the "one drop" that you're proposing. In theory you'd use him like that, but it always feels bad. I just found him lackluster when I played him. You mentioned that Ezuri is not enough, I tend to agree. You're either going to want to run the Druid/Vizier combo in GW, or Shaman/Ezuri in GB to give you alternate plans for either build. Westvale Abbey is great in both builds. I'm on the 4 Shaman/3 Ezuri/1 Westvale Abbey for wincon's plan, and it feels pretty darn good.
I'd been running Nykthos over Westvale Abbey, since I've switched to Westvale that card has consistently overperformed and won me games, even some I wouldn't or shouldn't have won otherwise.
Do we need additional mana fixing beyond the duals and 4 caverns? Obviously wouldn't play this over cavern.
What about Vanquishers banner? Just to expensive?
Heard a rumor there may be a post coming from you about Lead the Stampede...
Didn't catch this one but following you on twitch now. Looking forward to more!
Again, that being said, who the heck knows. Fast and dirty mono green FTW.
For the deck in question, having 12 mana dorks basically guarantees really quick acceleration even through things like fatal push. Reid duke played 4 boreal druid in his build over Nettle's for similar reasons (insuring that t2 3 mana acceleration). Joraga Warcaller gives an additional mana sink to guarantee that you have something to spend all that mana on around turn 4-5.
Passing up all the bullets and utility cards that white and black offer, not to mention lands like Cavern of Souls, Horizon Canopy, and Gilt-Leaf Palace just seems wrong to me. All of that said, there is no current conclusion as to the best way to build elves, maybe we're all just wrong and fast and dirty mono green is the best way to go.
LOVE the stream Syreal. Really appreciate it as an elves player learning the ropes. Keep em coming!
I tend to agree on Shaman. I enjoy Shaman too much to ever go GU.
Thanks for the info! I'm GB and on the thoughtseize plan to fight sweepers and combo. Sometimes it's good enough but having that extra info and disruption is what peaked my interest. The casting cost and potential lack of synergy are what keep giving me pause.
Highly interested in the counterspell idea. Seems like splashing for that could be good to protect our "combo", similar to how spell spierce worked for infect.
Going three color seems optimal (either GWU or GBU), wondering if blue has enough impactful cards to make straight GU an option. Phantasmal image, Spell Pierce, Dispel, Spreading Seas, Nissa, Hurkyl's Recall, Ceremonious Rejection, Swan Song, heck even Kira, Great Glass Spinner are cards that come to mind if we went straight GU. GU would seem to be on the "hold for the alpha strike with Ezuri plan with counter backup". I enjoy Shaman so much I'm not sure I could do it, just throwing ideas out there.
Don't forget to consider Duress. It's going to hit all those sweepers, plus planeswalkers, troublesome artifact, etc. Duress will come down more quickly than Stain. If it were me I'd be between Duress and Inquisition.
Perhaps just some ignorance on my part, just curious what void people see this card filling in the deck.
Doesn't seem like something we'd want to Chord for, isn't an elf, and can't Company into it. Those seem like three pretty large strikes for a deck that assumes much of its power from synergy amongst those cards. Especially if we're going to be jamming 3-4 of them main. Admittedly I haven't play tested the card and am intrigued, hoping for some knowledge here.
Personally I would cut the elves of deep shadow for a one of Ezuri. Gives an alt win plan and a toolbox regen ability. Not sure I'd maindeck thoughtseize either, would almost certainly run Chord or Lead in those 3 slots.
Boreal, wastes, and cavern give 12 colorless sources for TNS, seems good enough.