Is anyone playing fabricate? Still to slow/leaving us open? Does anyone play 3 tutors? I'm thinking about maybe treasure,trinket,fabricate or even treasure X2 and a trinket. Thoughts.
Snap is another card that always wonder if it's worth being a 1 of. Is it great... yes. Can we search it... no. Some have been doing 2 of since shok tried it and that makes more sense since your more likely to see it, especially since we draw so much. Ugin is usually a 1 of because when it does hit it's a blow out. As good as snap is I'm just not sure if it's worth a 1 of. Has anyone tried 3?
I know we operate much differently than the other Tron lists but do you think 2-3 board wipes is enough? Seems the other Trons all run with at least 4.
So I've haven't posted much in a while, even though I've been playing the deck quite a lot lately. I mostly play in the competitive leagues on MTGO, but also in local paper tournaments. Since my decklist has over time deviated significantly from what's currently the 'stock' list I figured I'd give you guys my thoughts on the changes.
Advantages 1) 16 Artifacts. With so many artifacts in the list the power of Thirst for Knowledge goes up a lot. The increase in card selection you get from going from zero to one artifact, and from one to two or more is immense. The stock lists seems to have corrected itself somewhat, but for a long while it was common to run as few as 12-13 artifacts. The artifact count was so low in some of the lists that I kinda believe it warped the conversation regarding specific cards, since it being/replacing an artifact in the list being tested had a far bigger effect on the card's playability than we gave it credit for.
2) More Board-whipes. By replacing Cyclonic Rift with another copy of Oblivion Stone we both increase our artifact count and move from a tempo card, to a card that goes X for 1 without changing the required mana too much. The Cyclonic Rift does have the utility of working as a one-time bounce spell for two mana, but I find the value of that deceptive. Sure, we solve the immediate problem the permanent in question, but we're actually down cards relative to our opponent. Since our game-plan leads to either casting a big threat, or create a low-pressure boardstate, that one card is often the difference between running them out of threats and not. The need to Cyclonic Rift random non-creature permanents is alleviated by point 3.
3)Improved t3-t4 sequencing. Done by committing to moving over to Commit//Memory from Repeal.Repeal is a fine card, and our deck really needs the effect. Some permanents just needs to stay off the table. Repeal is quite an expensive spell though. Before we complete tron we're always going to be tapping more lands than our opponent. Once we've completed tron we can cast it off of fewer lands, but we're working on less information than we'd like. We only know which card we're drawing after we've resolved it. This again leads to being locked into one of two situations. If we cast it main phase, our opponent will just recast it immediately on their turn. If we cast it in our opponent's turn, leftover mana or drawn lands can't be used well. This is especially annoying against cards like Blood Moon, Rest in Peace or Relic of Progenitus. Regardless of the cast timing Repeal leads to our opponent having an increased percentage of available spells in hand than you. This is because we will sometimes draw lands, but they will always get a spell in hand. These situations are less than ideal. what we really want to do is to spend less mana than our opponent, and deal with their card. This is the realm of counterspells, and we have a lot of them. However counterspells all have very strict timing requirements. We need to have the mana ready when they cast the spell. This problem is the whole point of Repeal in the first place. To deal with cards we couldn't stop on the stack. So what we want is a card that costs about the same, and deals with the same permanents Repeal does, but doesn't have the problems related to lacking the information to find the right play. Commit//Memory Fills a lot of these requirements. It bounces the same cards at similar costs, but you get to draw a card at the start of your turn before you have to deal with the bounced card again. You then get the ability to sequence around the problem card when you have the option to cast sorcery speed spells. I've heard people comment that Commit is bad because it improves your opponent's draws, but so does Repeal, but the effect of Commit is only felt one or two turns later.
Seeing as the bounce part of Commit is roughly equal to Repeal we can start looking into the prime advantage of commit. There are very few cards it can't interact with. It's a counterspell in addition to being a bounce spell. Planeswalkers, creatures with ETB triggers, delve mana-cheating, eldrazi-lands, uncounterable spells, none of them get past a Commit. This makes it way safer to spend turn three setting up for other things. Like casting Thirst for Knowledge. It doesn't matter that they resolved a mediocre threat on your turn three if they can never get a second threat on the table before we get to our big stuff.
4) Powerful mid to late-game with Torrential Gearhulk. With the move away from Repeal the issue of not having a bounce/removal spell to target with Torrential Gearhulk goes away, and it becomes a powerful way to set up 2 for 1 situations on most board states. It's tempting to hype the ability to use Torrential Gearhulk to only cast the Memory portion of Commit//Memory, but you'll find yourself wanting Commit more often. However when the situation does come up it's often an instant-win.
5) Land destruction soft-lock with Crucible of Worlds and Field of Ruin + gives space for utility-land. I've found that I can get away with using Field of Ruin as my only land destroying land. Combined with Crucible of Worlds it creates the value engine we've come to love lately, and when topped off with a Sundering Titan there aren't any lands that can't be destroyed using only mainboard cards. Using only a single land destruction land opens up space for an utility land. I'm currently on Buried Ruin, but I've tested with Mirrorpool, Gemstone Caverns or a fetchland as. I'm unsure which utility land offers the most.
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I have a lot more to say about the deck, but I got to go now. Expect to see one or more followup posts the next days! =)
Great post. I think it's great more people are starting have different play styles with U-Tron.
With dropping repeal do you find your draw power go down or does supreme will and Gifts make up for it?
It's interesting to see that everyone agrees that Chalice is very strong but most are running a 1-1 split. Seems Pie is the only one left running a 2-2. I run 2-1.
3 Gearhulk stories from last night. 1 game I cast him and the only targets I had were repeal and condasend. I would have rather had a remand target at the time but I chose condasend. It scryed me into tron . Another game I didn't have UU to cast for a while :(. I sided him out a game and I mulled down to 4! I built myself up to 6 mana, played a treasure Mage and was looking at the thirst in my graveyard and wished I had gearhulk :(.
On A side note field of ruin saved me with a blue source last night and 2 out of 4 opponents would have been good to have titan. I like Gearhulk and Titan more than I like platinum. So much artifact hate, wurmcoil was my BFF.
I put Angel in the SB. It's rare that i'm happy to see her.
I want to run Trinket but the idea of cutting out out 1 of my 2 Treasure Mages feels wrong to me. 2 Treasure Mage and 1 Trinket? Is that too many bodies to be tapping for on my turn?
I want to try a second Ugin but it's so $$$. I'm using a all is dust in the side as ugin #2. Not as good but it's doing some good work for me.
Great post. I think it's great more people are starting have different play styles with U-Tron.
With dropping repeal do you find your draw power go down or does supreme will and Gifts make up for it?
Thanks for the list @Alur13, it looks great.
Anyone think Oboro will get reprinted anytime soon? I really want one but I'm not willing to pay$25 for it.
On A side note field of ruin saved me with a blue source last night and 2 out of 4 opponents would have been good to have titan. I like Gearhulk and Titan more than I like platinum. So much artifact hate, wurmcoil was my BFF.
I want to run Trinket but the idea of cutting out out 1 of my 2 Treasure Mages feels wrong to me. 2 Treasure Mage and 1 Trinket? Is that too many bodies to be tapping for on my turn?