It really depends on the kind of deck that you want. From the op, your main worry seems to be diluting your game plan with too many different things.
I would say think of your main plan as going wide, tall, and then beating face. Then support this plan with draw that fits well in your shell so you can keep the gas going. (ex. Armorcraft Judge / Greater Good). At this point, you're a strong deck, even if very linear.
Now as far as spicing things up and adding more interaction without taking away from your game plan, I'd say you might as well continue using the synergy in your deck. Why not turn those counters into interaction? (Counters turned into dmg, theft affects, mana, draw, life, etc) You have a few of these already in your deck. I'd say your main work should be done figuring out the right ratios. # of sources that create counters, # of creatures that are proficient at attacking with all those counters (trample/unblockable/etc), # of interactive counter cards, and the amount of draw that you want.
Beast Within is a good catch all option for spot removal if you have room. Dense Foliage will stop people from interacting with you short of board wipes. But in general, try to always be thinking about your main game plan and if additional cards support it or not. Easier said than done though, I know it's hard not to want to include cool looking cards that touch on your strategy.
Just so you're aware, there are creatures similar to those with evolve but with much higher potential in multiplayer because they scale well with multiple players. (Several of these will just win games on their own if they go unanswered.)
Managorger Hydra (trample is key here) Ravenous Slime (New, on theme, great gy hate) Another recent thread has talked about this with Whiptongue Hydra. Feed all those flyers to RS and Whiptongue all at once. Forgotten Ancient (Going tall has the glaring weakness of being chump blocked all day long so you can use this not just as an attacker, but as a way to beef up anything with trample/flying/unblock-able/etc.)
Also, since you're not only going wide, but tall as well, Armorcraft Judge works great here for keeping up the gas. And since you're in blue as well, Chasm Skulker fits quite nicely in your shell. Dense Foliage is also a great way to tie these kinds of decks together because you're mostly playing permanents and not interacting with other players.
Prid3 covers a lot of cards like these in his guides. Feel free to give them a look.
What do you all think of Pulse of Murasa in this shell? Low cost, instant, just about hit's Primal Command's life mode, and great synergy with Eternal Witness (another loop that's cheaper/instant, though not as flexible as command). Pulse also sits just outside of Trinisphere range. I think it would give lots of options and some pretty strong early game defense.
Think something very basic like:
T1 Forest + Dork/Sprawl (Fairly common)
T2 Forest + Sakura-Tribe Elder (Ready for block/sac)
T3 Forest + Pulse (hit sac'd STEve) + STEve (Additional block/sac)
So that's potentially 6 life + 2 blocks worth of damage + ramp just for this simple line.
Primal Command is amazing but it doesn't start its thing until mid game+. I think Pulse of Murasa could be a great supplement for surviving early on when command isn't being abused yet.
I like the idea. You may be in need of some card draw though. Phyrexian Arena is a favorite of mine. Adds devotion if you decide to ever go that route, and also sits outside of Trinisphere/Chalice of the void range as well.
Phyrexian Metamorph is pretty great in these shells. Especially if you decide to go with Master of Etherium. Adding a few Sculpting Steel is also an option if you want to have a decent copy sub theme. I have a modern deck based around cloning/artifact lords/artifact reducers that explodes very quickly if you just have one lord and a bunch of lowered cost copy artifacts. I run Grand Architect to help with the explosiveness and also offering another lord option (Gotta metamorph it first for sculpting steel), even though it's much weaker than Master of Etherium.
The main plan was originally to copy a bunch of Lodestone Golems and then lords as a secondary but I found that the lord plan was way more deadly and consistent and often times, by the time I could get a bunch of golems out, it either wasn't enough to stabilize, or the game was already won anyway.
Maybe you could ditch the color portion of your idea and just stick with the political side of things? No matter what color a player is, they will like things like drawing, ramping, gaining creatures, etc. Then you can just kind of decide on a match basis who you feel like teaming up with or going against. It's still an intriguing idea though.
We have quite a few tools to handle it. Also, I think we are in a good place if someone is tapping out to play a 4 cmc artifact that does nothing on the turn it comes down.
Speaking of great multiplayer lands, the new Dominaria spoiler Cabal Stronghold looks promising. Tap for colorless or pay 3, gain black mana equal to number of basic swamps. It has some downsides but might be worth considering still. It will produce 1 less than Cabal Coffers would, and it doesn't work with Leechridden Swamp.. BUT, it does offer 1 colorless mana at the beginning of the game when you normally wouldn't be able to use coffers for anything.
At the very least, it may be a new budget version of coffers.
Unfortunately it's also a third of the lock suite for the deck (Moon, Bridge, and Chalice). So that's ultimately what you've got to aim for if you want to pilot Pyro Prison to it's fullest right now. But that's not to say it's not a functioning deck without them. Until then though, you could opt to bring in some aggression from your sb to mb such as Eidolon of the Great Revel. As far as mana curve, chalice is typically played on 0, 2, and 4 cmc for 0-2 charges. So I'd look at 2 and 4 drops for replacements while you save up for 4x Chalice. Against something like Tron, which is the most popular control deck right now, you'll actually be more favored to win game 1 than the core pyro build would be as chalice is pretty weak there and you want to win asap before they just go over the top and not care what you have in play.
If you'd like to retain some of your control for the lack of chalice, instead you could run things like Sorcerous Spyglass, Spellskite, or maybe Molten Rain. Despite being an exlusive sb card, it's pretty tough for spyglass to actually be a dead card in mb. Naming a fetch is pretty underrated but amazing.
I would imagine they would take out a lot of removal thinking you're skred red. In which case you would do well to bring in a lot of aggression for game two. BUT, I think the decision of bringing in aggression over control from sb should be based on the match up. Not quite so much based on the land info you've given your opponent from game one (Not to say that's not very relevant either). Because even if they ditch a lot of removal and your aggression would stick around easier, they could very well just be a deck with a stronger board presence (aggro/midrange). So even if a Rabblemaster gets to remain alive due to fewer answers on opponent's end for game two, if there are things like goyfs around, you're not swinging anyway.
Snow covered puts you on skred, setting up opponents to think to sb a specific way. The question is, how beneficial is that? It does bring some form of consistency as far the way opponents sb for game 2, but idk if we can really take advantage of the idea that we are more control centered.
Mountain is pretty wide open as far as what you could be. We are more likely to be put under the category of some kind of aggressive deck.
One question we can maybe ask is, should I play a snow mountain turn 1 which tells opponent I'm a control deck (Good! We might have a better game 2 because they are misinformed), but also show that we have a blood moon coming (Bad! Not gonna fetch non-basics now). This might equate to a weaker game 1 and a possible stronger game two if putting us on skred is beneficial that match. Mountain doesn't say anything regarding blood moon which is good game 1.
Hey all, been reading and studying for a while now, first time posting though. I found this deck through SaffronOlives free win red, and after doing a TON of research and play testing I’ve found that for me, this is the optimum build of the red prison deck. I plan on taking Pyro Prison to my first GP in September, and am slowly buying into it as the cards are really cheap now. I plan on building something similar to Rays newest take with the magus’ and revoker and hazoret in the main, I just want to know your thoughts on if this is the most competitive version. I’m 19 and in my short magic career this has been the most fun I’ve had with any deck in any format, thanks all!
We are always swapping things in and out, and also trying new ideas to try to improve the deck further. The stock lists at the beginning of the primer are mostly what you should aim for to get your core built. Then it's up to what feels right to you and fits your meta. Which shell is the most competitive version is kind of a loaded question as it really depends on the meta that you expect. One of our strengths is that our core kind of handles everything since we are a sb deck but to really up your win %, it's a meta call. Safe bet in a big event like a GP would be to skim over the most recent deck posts, as they are tuned to handle the current meta specifically. (And yes, you won't go wrong with Ray's current variation either)
So focus on the core build, win/lose some games, begin tuning. Knowing how to properly pilot this monster is actually a lot more important than specific builds, so don't focus too much on which might be best. The more advanced pilots here will tell you the same, as their tweaks are attempts at min/maxing win %s, but they never really heavily change the deck.
Glad you're enjoying the deck! It has a very high learning curve so if you stick with it, this thing can really push your skills higher as a magic player.
I like the premise of the deck, though it obviously wont be as strong as posts but hey, those are illegal. I could see this doing well as a ramp deck. I'd start by running Fabricate along with your Whirs.
In my experience with these kinds of copy decks, often times you can be very explosive by copying artifact lords instead of just working on some combo that you may have built the deck to perform. (That's not to say you shouldn't or that it's wrong to build towards a combo or huge ramped out threat, but it's amazing to have an incidental lord army beat down option as your primary or secondary plan of attack.) With lowered artifact costs, Master of Etherium can easily be copied many times over. And it not only pumps your other creatures, but grows with more artifacts on the field. I think it's perfect for the deck since you care about your artifact count. Grand Architect is another strong lord that you can work with as he also supports the artifact plan anyway while beefing up other blue creatures. (Oh Master and Metamorph are blue as well)
Phantasmal Image is another great option as a cheap copy spell. It just doesn't hit on your stone strategy. Foundry Inspector is another card that helps with building your board quickly.
That new 2cc artifact is really good. Second glance.....stops the obvious, Tron and storm. Also hinders snapcaster mage and blood braid elf. Just saying.
Aside from shutting down our rituals (which is manageable by playing them before the artifact), this thing does seem quite strong. Aside from the rituals, we aren't actually known for casting several spells a turn. So it's fairly tuned for us already. Getting this down t1 against affinity could be pretty strong as well to slow the board swarm a bit.
I would say think of your main plan as going wide, tall, and then beating face. Then support this plan with draw that fits well in your shell so you can keep the gas going. (ex. Armorcraft Judge / Greater Good). At this point, you're a strong deck, even if very linear.
Now as far as spicing things up and adding more interaction without taking away from your game plan, I'd say you might as well continue using the synergy in your deck. Why not turn those counters into interaction? (Counters turned into dmg, theft affects, mana, draw, life, etc) You have a few of these already in your deck. I'd say your main work should be done figuring out the right ratios. # of sources that create counters, # of creatures that are proficient at attacking with all those counters (trample/unblockable/etc), # of interactive counter cards, and the amount of draw that you want.
Beast Within is a good catch all option for spot removal if you have room. Dense Foliage will stop people from interacting with you short of board wipes. But in general, try to always be thinking about your main game plan and if additional cards support it or not. Easier said than done though, I know it's hard not to want to include cool looking cards that touch on your strategy.
Managorger Hydra (trample is key here)
Ravenous Slime (New, on theme, great gy hate) Another recent thread has talked about this with Whiptongue Hydra. Feed all those flyers to RS and Whiptongue all at once.
Forgotten Ancient (Going tall has the glaring weakness of being chump blocked all day long so you can use this not just as an attacker, but as a way to beef up anything with trample/flying/unblock-able/etc.)
Scavenging Ooze (On theme, gy hate)
Predator Ooze (On theme, reliable/growing threat)
Also, since you're not only going wide, but tall as well, Armorcraft Judge works great here for keeping up the gas. And since you're in blue as well, Chasm Skulker fits quite nicely in your shell. Dense Foliage is also a great way to tie these kinds of decks together because you're mostly playing permanents and not interacting with other players.
Prid3 covers a lot of cards like these in his guides. Feel free to give them a look.
Think something very basic like:
T1 Forest + Dork/Sprawl (Fairly common)
T2 Forest + Sakura-Tribe Elder (Ready for block/sac)
T3 Forest + Pulse (hit sac'd STEve) + STEve (Additional block/sac)
So that's potentially 6 life + 2 blocks worth of damage + ramp just for this simple line.
Primal Command is amazing but it doesn't start its thing until mid game+. I think Pulse of Murasa could be a great supplement for surviving early on when command isn't being abused yet.
The main plan was originally to copy a bunch of Lodestone Golems and then lords as a secondary but I found that the lord plan was way more deadly and consistent and often times, by the time I could get a bunch of golems out, it either wasn't enough to stabilize, or the game was already won anyway.
We have quite a few tools to handle it. Also, I think we are in a good place if someone is tapping out to play a 4 cmc artifact that does nothing on the turn it comes down.
At the very least, it may be a new budget version of coffers.
If you'd like to retain some of your control for the lack of chalice, instead you could run things like Sorcerous Spyglass, Spellskite, or maybe Molten Rain. Despite being an exlusive sb card, it's pretty tough for spyglass to actually be a dead card in mb. Naming a fetch is pretty underrated but amazing.
Snow covered puts you on skred, setting up opponents to think to sb a specific way. The question is, how beneficial is that? It does bring some form of consistency as far the way opponents sb for game 2, but idk if we can really take advantage of the idea that we are more control centered.
Mountain is pretty wide open as far as what you could be. We are more likely to be put under the category of some kind of aggressive deck.
One question we can maybe ask is, should I play a snow mountain turn 1 which tells opponent I'm a control deck (Good! We might have a better game 2 because they are misinformed), but also show that we have a blood moon coming (Bad! Not gonna fetch non-basics now). This might equate to a weaker game 1 and a possible stronger game two if putting us on skred is beneficial that match. Mountain doesn't say anything regarding blood moon which is good game 1.
So focus on the core build, win/lose some games, begin tuning. Knowing how to properly pilot this monster is actually a lot more important than specific builds, so don't focus too much on which might be best. The more advanced pilots here will tell you the same, as their tweaks are attempts at min/maxing win %s, but they never really heavily change the deck.
Glad you're enjoying the deck! It has a very high learning curve so if you stick with it, this thing can really push your skills higher as a magic player.
In my experience with these kinds of copy decks, often times you can be very explosive by copying artifact lords instead of just working on some combo that you may have built the deck to perform. (That's not to say you shouldn't or that it's wrong to build towards a combo or huge ramped out threat, but it's amazing to have an incidental lord army beat down option as your primary or secondary plan of attack.) With lowered artifact costs, Master of Etherium can easily be copied many times over. And it not only pumps your other creatures, but grows with more artifacts on the field. I think it's perfect for the deck since you care about your artifact count. Grand Architect is another strong lord that you can work with as he also supports the artifact plan anyway while beefing up other blue creatures. (Oh Master and Metamorph are blue as well)
Phantasmal Image is another great option as a cheap copy spell. It just doesn't hit on your stone strategy. Foundry Inspector is another card that helps with building your board quickly.
Damping Sphere