Makes sense. I'd be just as happy to run Elixir of Immortality or Psychic Spiral personally, but Reclamation is pretty lean so I get why you'd go for that.
1) I maintain Vizier of the Scorpion and Eternal Skylord are important for this deck, because Flying and Deathtouch are two extremely important abilities to have in EDH (the latter to allow this removal-less deck to keep other aggro players honest, and the former to check all those big flying threats that are always running around in the format). That said, I do see Amass not being very powerful on cards that do JUST that, so I removed Aven Eternal and put Prized Amalgam in its place. As for Phyrexian Delver, it was already there
Whoops, missed the Delver . I think there's a place for the ability granting amass creatures, but really only if you're leaning into tokens heavily. It's not something I have a TON of, although there are a few; if they granted abilities to all of your zombies they'd obviously be an absolute lock. As it is, I prefer Death Baron in replacement of the Vizier, and for flying I use sweepers and Eldrazi Monument (it's so perfect with Gravecrawler).
3) I never thought about Aetherflux Reservoir, but now that you mention it, it seems like a badass idea! I put that and Mana Vault in, replacing the two tribal artifacts which, while not really redundant per se, are just too pricey in terms of mana.
I think it's a disgusting card personally, but I fully acknowledge that it ends games in the most surgical fashion. It makes sense for it to be in a deck that gains life regularly, and it leans really nicely up against your Gravecrawler/Phyrexian Altar combo; essentially you could either find an aristocrat, or this.
4) Beacon of Unrest is another card that I'd never considered, but I do see it being useful in a deck that has lots of graveyard shenanigans but no Eternal Witness. I'll test it and see how it goes
I'd be interested to hear how it goes; I've got a spare copy myself, and it's done really well in my Dralnu build, I've wondered if it would be worth running here. The shuffle effect is what makes it worth paying 3BB.
5) I chose not to include any wheels no Smothering Tithe, because doing so would require too many and too significant alterations to how the deck plays.
Fair enough. They do well for me here in terms of mass reanimation strategies, Archfiend of Ifnir devastation, and digging for things I need. Tithe is a KOS piece against most people, and in Esper it's well worth having some extra colour fixing.
edit - I know blinx28 was tossing up inclusion of Phyrexian Reclamation. What does it do for you here, and how well does it fit?
Personally, I think it's more about building a deck that scales with the table, and some decks are better at this than others. My standard recommendation here is Lazav, Dimir Mastermind. It works really well with this concept because a lot of its power comes from your interactions with other decks, so it's really good at matching what's happening in each game.
RG - Nikya of the Old Ways? Self limiting Gruul stompy could be fun. In a similar vein, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed is a cool commander, especially because his damage is universally indiscriminate.
WG - Selvala, Explorer Returned - it CAN be broken, but otherwise is a reasonably fun commander so long as you don't.
BR - Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - He's straight up one of my favourite commanders ever, purely for his uniqueness. There's a really quality primer here on salvation too. He uses some off the beaten track stuff, is relatively powerful without being busted, and does stuff no other commander does.
Weltkrieg- mono white is usually my jam for 60-card, but its rough in commander.
It's not really the place to debate, but mono white gets a bad rap for being awful when it isn't. My Bruna build is probably one of my most successful generally, and it ramps better than most other decks I play against (partly because it has to, obviously).
Oh man, I used to run Savra, and honestly it was a ton of fun. Although the triggers can get a bit overwhelming from time to time. Still, so much fun. She definitely doesn't get enough love. If I wasn't playing Glissa, I'd be tempted to build Savra again.
Mine was a fairly janky build, courtesy of a reasonably new to the format sort of attitude. It was still fun and did stuff, but this one definitely looks more focused. However, the black reanimation dorks were handy, as were things like Victimize and Smothering Abomination - that thing was a legitimate draw tank in Savra. Cards for what you're doing anyway is a no brainer.
I have never been a fan of Worm Harvest but it seems like it could do good work here since the tokens are both colors. How good has this card been?
I can confirm the value in this card for Savra - being both colours make her work twice as hard, it really is worth it. I also definitely think Gary and Koko could fit well here. They're both great for the big life swings that a commander like this could benefit from, and both game-ending spells in their own right.
Mostly these are strict upgrades. The signets and talismani I concur with WizardMN regarding - the xB variants are far more relevant, as we are heavy in that colour. I am still tracking down Talisman of Hierarchy, but it'll end up in here at some point. Gift trumps Vindicate on speed and colour cost, I can forgive the elephant. It's an easy add. And Augur is decent draw value with a lot of our pieces, so I'm pleased to have it in here.
The druid is nice early ramp, should be a fun time. Force we've discussed as being great value in a flexible package. Chord vs Zenith was something I weighed up when I first picked up Finale of Devastation, and I think I made the wrong choice. Zenith is an early game fixer, mid game board clearer, there's just so much value to it. Chord is excellent, but it's a finisher, and we probably only need one. Tireless Tracker has been in here a long time. It's been ok, but it was easy enough to cut for more ramp dorks (to be honest, I have a Yavimaya Dryad I'd like to squeeze in too - I'd take suggestions for a cut), purely because it's very much incidentally related to our primary goal whereas the ETB ramp dorks are pure value.
The deck is sort of at the point where it's pretty hard to know what to cut. Prison I haven't seen come up in a while, and when it has I haven't really bothered with it. It's always seemed like a way to counter super ramp and aggro, but as it turns out our land drops and ramp are fairly reliable here. So I'm not worried to lose it for Gift, which is a blessing from Wizards to white mages everywhere. Mistveil is niche utility, it won't be supremely handy every game, but it'll allow for some corner case utility here and there, which is cool.
Core 20 looks to have at least a few pieces worthy of consideration here. I really like Bishop of Wings, and I'm keen to see what else comes through. Sephara, Sky's Blade looks ok, but it's no Avacyn. I'll see what else comes through before committing to anything else.
Should be a solid upgrade, all things told. There's bound to be more coming here, with Core 20 promising some really solid low cost vampires in the common and uncommon ranks.
Totally agree here. Having a couple of options to grab a tool you need is not the end of the world. It’s a slippery slope, but you can allow yourself some options without going all in on tutor town. My Nissa build runs 4 from memory. 3 for critters, 1 for lands. It’s plenty to get what you need without feeling like you’re cheating the random element of the format. Besides, I feel like these ones are at least a step up from the ‘hard tutors’ like vampiric and demonic.
It looks decent. My thoughts are you could probably dispense with a lot of the tribal aspects and lean into the combo a bit more for extra efficiency. You’ve got most of what you need to make the deck revolve around the combo pretty quickly, I guess you just need a really reliable way to find the Altar early, and a reliable zombie to keep on the field for Gravecrawler. It’s come up in the thread a few posts ago, Unsettled Mariner would be a really good pick for that (or Prized Amalgam). Add an Entomb to get you to your Crawler quick, Aetherflux Reservoir for a secondary win con and you’ve got yourself a nasty combo deck. If you have the money for it I’d drop some of the top tier rocks in to speed things up early too - the usual stuff like Crypt, Vault etc. Also, curious - what is Mystical Tutor picking up in the deck? Enlightened is solid here, I’d love a copy for my Smothering Tithe (you should consider adding btw), Tombstone Stairwell and such, but Mystical doesn’t seem to have a lot of targets.
Honestly, I have to say in my experience with the amass mechanic I found it...disappointing. It’s slow, even in the most efficient iterations of the effect like Dreadhorde Invasion and Lazotep Reaver. It just seemed like the mechanic was trying to create a middle ground between lots of zombies and big zombies, and sort of failing at both; kind of a jack of all trades, master of none scenario.
I am a little biased, but I’d look at adding some wheels to dig deep for your pieces. They work well with the aforementioned Tithe, they’re semi-control for your opponents, play nicely into Varina, fuel mass reanimation, and potentially they can put your Crawler right where you want it. You could add Beacon of Unrest to get pieces into play that you need, or Phyrexian Delver or Reanimate. I’ve honestly found the downside of drawing your opponents into answers is fairly uncommon, most people hate being wheeled.
Hope all this helps - I’ve sort of assumed you wanted to go all in on that combo, but I could have the wrong idea entirely
Welcome back! Glad to hear you’re recovered somewhat. And yeah, Wizards is churning through sets at a huge pace at present, salvation is changing hands, and Nexus is coming online soon with some of the EDH stalwarts from here behind the scenes running the show. I’ll be taking my lists there when it’s online.
Varina has been doing well. I’m still waiting for some pieces to throw in from an online order, and there’s been a few changes I have yet to document, but otherwise it’s a pretty enjoyable build to play at present. Still more of a mid range build than a combo build, but that’s what I like so that’s what I do.
Yeah I have to say, as fun as all of these are, this new abzan legend presents something that is powerful but not obvious, creative and looks fun. Reminds me of Karador a lot. I want to build him.
I can't believe it's taken me this long to realise, but Baru, Fist of Krosa counts ALL forests coming into play. Realised midgame after casting Wave of Vitriol and swinging for 19 with a Yavimaya Dryad and an elephant. The more you know.
edit - I ended this game by Collective Voyageing for 10, and swinging with the same. This is a stupidly good ability to have in this deck, I truly cannot believe how gross Baru is. Crazily good ability.
The game locked early behind Talrand's Invoke Prejudice, and Neheb was already in play at that point which allowed an early lead. He used some life loss mana to Tectonic Break everyone's lands. We all spent the next few turns rebuilding and pulling each other's pieces apart, while also trying to avoid as much damage from Citadel of Pain as we could. Eventually Neheb lands Repercussion and we all start getting savaged by it.
Last turn cycle Neheb is on 1, Talrand is on 3, I'm on 6. Turn passes to Neheb, and he gets dealt 3 damage from his own Mana Crypt. Turn passes to Talrand and he swings with Thassa, God of the Sea for 5 at me. Turn passes to me, and I get dealt 1 damage from my own Phyrexian Arena. Mass suicide for a Talrand win.
Fair enough! I guess it just comes across that way in a summary article because there are so many guilds to track through ~1-2 pages of information. I always thought the nephilim would play more of a part, too, considering how unique they are.
Thanks so much Jay. This is the last bit of lore I've really wanted to know for a while. Teferi being one of my favourite characters and wanting to know more about the Mending and 'modern Bolas', this was a great read, and well timed coming into Dominaria.
Great article. Long but not unnecessarily. I can pretty well agree with the conclusion too. My first thought was Leshrac, but not knowing a HUGE amount of older lore (I started playing at a young age), Leshrac seems unlikely. Lim-Dul fits the bill. It would be a great twist at some point too.
What are the odds the reveal happens in the upcoming Dominaria set next year? Fingers crossed.
Whoops, missed the Delver
I think it's a disgusting card personally, but I fully acknowledge that it ends games in the most surgical fashion. It makes sense for it to be in a deck that gains life regularly, and it leans really nicely up against your Gravecrawler/Phyrexian Altar combo; essentially you could either find an aristocrat, or this.
I'd be interested to hear how it goes; I've got a spare copy myself, and it's done really well in my Dralnu build, I've wondered if it would be worth running here. The shuffle effect is what makes it worth paying 3BB.
Fair enough. They do well for me here in terms of mass reanimation strategies, Archfiend of Ifnir devastation, and digging for things I need. Tithe is a KOS piece against most people, and in Esper it's well worth having some extra colour fixing.
edit - I know blinx28 was tossing up inclusion of Phyrexian Reclamation. What does it do for you here, and how well does it fit?
RG - Nikya of the Old Ways? Self limiting Gruul stompy could be fun. In a similar vein, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed is a cool commander, especially because his damage is universally indiscriminate.
WG - Selvala, Explorer Returned - it CAN be broken, but otherwise is a reasonably fun commander so long as you don't.
BR - Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - He's straight up one of my favourite commanders ever, purely for his uniqueness. There's a really quality primer here on salvation too. He uses some off the beaten track stuff, is relatively powerful without being busted, and does stuff no other commander does.
It's not really the place to debate, but mono white gets a bad rap for being awful when it isn't. My Bruna build is probably one of my most successful generally, and it ramps better than most other decks I play against (partly because it has to, obviously).
Value things I used to run:
Apprentice Necromancer
Reassembling Skeleton
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Doomed Necromancer
Smothering Abomination
Disciple of Bolas
Strands of Night
Mine was a fairly janky build, courtesy of a reasonably new to the format sort of attitude. It was still fun and did stuff, but this one definitely looks more focused. However, the black reanimation dorks were handy, as were things like Victimize and Smothering Abomination - that thing was a legitimate draw tank in Savra. Cards for what you're doing anyway is a no brainer.
I can confirm the value in this card for Savra - being both colours make her work twice as hard, it really is worth it. I also definitely think Gary and Koko could fit well here. They're both great for the big life swings that a commander like this could benefit from, and both game-ending spells in their own right.
In:
Talisman of Dominance
Generous Gift
Undead Augur
Out:
Azorius Signet
Vindicate
Lazotep Reaver
Mostly these are strict upgrades. The signets and talismani I concur with WizardMN regarding - the xB variants are far more relevant, as we are heavy in that colour. I am still tracking down Talisman of Hierarchy, but it'll end up in here at some point. Gift trumps Vindicate on speed and colour cost, I can forgive the elephant. It's an easy add. And Augur is decent draw value with a lot of our pieces, so I'm pleased to have it in here.
In:
Springbloom Druid
Force of Vigor
Green Sun's Zenith
Out:
Tireless Tracker
Lignify
Chord of Calling
The druid is nice early ramp, should be a fun time. Force we've discussed as being great value in a flexible package. Chord vs Zenith was something I weighed up when I first picked up Finale of Devastation, and I think I made the wrong choice. Zenith is an early game fixer, mid game board clearer, there's just so much value to it. Chord is excellent, but it's a finisher, and we probably only need one. Tireless Tracker has been in here a long time. It's been ok, but it was easy enough to cut for more ramp dorks (to be honest, I have a Yavimaya Dryad I'd like to squeeze in too - I'd take suggestions for a cut), purely because it's very much incidentally related to our primary goal whereas the ETB ramp dorks are pure value.
In:
Generous Gift
Mistveil Plains
Out:
Ghostly Prison
Plains
The deck is sort of at the point where it's pretty hard to know what to cut. Prison I haven't seen come up in a while, and when it has I haven't really bothered with it. It's always seemed like a way to counter super ramp and aggro, but as it turns out our land drops and ramp are fairly reliable here. So I'm not worried to lose it for Gift, which is a blessing from Wizards to white mages everywhere. Mistveil is niche utility, it won't be supremely handy every game, but it'll allow for some corner case utility here and there, which is cool.
Core 20 looks to have at least a few pieces worthy of consideration here. I really like Bishop of Wings, and I'm keen to see what else comes through. Sephara, Sky's Blade looks ok, but it's no Avacyn. I'll see what else comes through before committing to anything else.
In:
Cordial Vampire
Out:
Vampire Interloper
Should be a solid upgrade, all things told. There's bound to be more coming here, with Core 20 promising some really solid low cost vampires in the common and uncommon ranks.
Honestly, I have to say in my experience with the amass mechanic I found it...disappointing. It’s slow, even in the most efficient iterations of the effect like Dreadhorde Invasion and Lazotep Reaver. It just seemed like the mechanic was trying to create a middle ground between lots of zombies and big zombies, and sort of failing at both; kind of a jack of all trades, master of none scenario.
I am a little biased, but I’d look at adding some wheels to dig deep for your pieces. They work well with the aforementioned Tithe, they’re semi-control for your opponents, play nicely into Varina, fuel mass reanimation, and potentially they can put your Crawler right where you want it. You could add Beacon of Unrest to get pieces into play that you need, or Phyrexian Delver or Reanimate. I’ve honestly found the downside of drawing your opponents into answers is fairly uncommon, most people hate being wheeled.
Hope all this helps - I’ve sort of assumed you wanted to go all in on that combo, but I could have the wrong idea entirely
Varina has been doing well. I’m still waiting for some pieces to throw in from an online order, and there’s been a few changes I have yet to document, but otherwise it’s a pretty enjoyable build to play at present. Still more of a mid range build than a combo build, but that’s what I like so that’s what I do.
edit - I ended this game by Collective Voyageing for 10, and swinging with the same. This is a stupidly good ability to have in this deck, I truly cannot believe how gross Baru is. Crazily good ability.
T1 Dryad Arbor is a great start too.
The game locked early behind Talrand's Invoke Prejudice, and Neheb was already in play at that point which allowed an early lead. He used some life loss mana to Tectonic Break everyone's lands. We all spent the next few turns rebuilding and pulling each other's pieces apart, while also trying to avoid as much damage from Citadel of Pain as we could. Eventually Neheb lands Repercussion and we all start getting savaged by it.
Last turn cycle Neheb is on 1, Talrand is on 3, I'm on 6. Turn passes to Neheb, and he gets dealt 3 damage from his own Mana Crypt. Turn passes to Talrand and he swings with Thassa, God of the Sea for 5 at me. Turn passes to me, and I get dealt 1 damage from my own Phyrexian Arena. Mass suicide for a Talrand win.