Is anyone here testing Pain Seer? A removal-heavy Mardu build seems like the perfect environment for this guy, as we can usually clear the board for him to swing. Plus, you can always get another tap out of him by convoking Stoke the Flames. Just a single Inspired trigger generates +1 CA, and anything past that is just back-breaking. Oh, and he gets in under Abzan Charm.
If I had a critique of your deck, it would be that for a heroic deck it is too creature-heavy, meaning you won't get all that many heroic triggers going. Also, as you're not going to reach the mana count consistently, I would warn against Elspeth and Fated. Since you're playing an aggro deck, your solutions should be pro-active aggro solutions rather than reactive solutions.
I'm curious as to how Dauntless Onslaught, Eidolon of Countless Battles, and Launch the Fleet have worked out for you. I've played around with Launch, but I'm usually unimpressed, as you really need to flood the board for it to work out. My problem is that my heroic decks have not been real creature-heavy like yours.
My Boros Heroic has taken on a slightly different look:
Akroan Crusader: I initially shied away from this guy, but he's been rock solid. When you're facing down a lot of Devour Flesh, this guy can really save your bacon. The fact that the tokens come out with haste creates a lot of opportunity to get in extra damage.
Dragon Mantle: This card is so underrated it's not even funny. For the longest time, I turned my nose up at it, but after I saw that SCG Columbus Invitational winner ran 4 in his sligh deck, I figured I would give it a shot. So far, I am impressed and surprised. In the deck, it's worst case scenario is generally heroic trigger + draw a card. That extra card is actually huge, as it prevents you from taking negative CA, and digs to your next land drops, etc. Also, the firebreathing is underrated, as it gives your creatures the strength to punch through all kinds of popular blockers, including, most notably, Courser of Kruphix and Sylvan Caryatid.
Titan's Strength: Usually, this acts as +4/+2 and a scry. Again, punches through blockers. The scry is very useful.
Mortal Obstinacy: Another sleeper card that's really useful with all of the enchantments floating out there now. Personally, I like this better than Ethereal Armor, as I'm seldom stacking a million auras onto the field. I've been going back and forth whether to put this into the main deck in place of Titan's Strength.
Ordeal of Heliod: This sideboard card has been great against burn and other aggro decks. With all of my guys getting heroic counters, popping it off for 10 life is usually a cinch.
I am currently running 18 lands and, oddly enough, it has hardly been an issue at all. I think the difference has been from running so many different scry effects, and Dragon Mantle, as well. However, I am on the verge of going to 19 lands, just to make sure I don't have to take too many mulligans. Any more lands than that would be out of the question, for me. This deck fires on all cylinders with 3 land out, and no card costs more than 2.
So far, the deck has been not just fun, but downright competitive. It has solid matchups against Courser decks, UW control, and it's explosive enough to outpace most other aggro decks. I sometimes still have trouble against Black Devotion decks. Getting hit with Thoughtseize and then a removal string can be completely backbreaking, especially since I'm a little creature-thin at the outset. Akroan Crusader performs well in the matchup, but it's still very tough. I'm looking for some advice on how to strengthen this matchup.
Very Straight-Forward, 100% dedicated to Heroically beating face ASAP. I do wish there were another 1 mana enchantment to replace Ordeal of Purphors, but I think this has the capacity to blitz the opponent, and has the protection spells to squeeze in that quick damage. Thoughts?
With Gnarled Scarhide coming out, I am really excited about Mono Black Aggro. Between this, Herald of Torment, and Spiteful Returned, have we reached the critical mass of aura enchantment effects to make good use of Agent of the Fates? He's an efficient beater at 3 mana for 3 power, but wouldn't he be nuts in here if you can get him to go off with any kind of regularity?
If I might inject myself into the Satyr Hoplite discussion, I saw this:
"The one situation I see this guy being played in is a deck with firedrinker satyr/Rakdos Cackler/This guy + 3 sets of enchantments. If this deck exists, thats where it belongs, otherwise I just don't see it."
I've been running with a Naya Heroic/Aura deck with Madcap and Ethereal, and the key is to run your enchantments out with cheap protection like Ranger's Guile and God's Willing, which both have the extra boon of adding a Heroic counter when you fend off a removal spell. It's a risky strategy, takes discipline to execute, but with Heroic, you don't need but a couple swings to finish a game. Boros Charm loves heroic, btw.
The removal in the format is pretty slow though (the most prevalent spell costs three mana!), and if you've got Hero out, you can hook him up to Alpha Authority while protecting the play with God's Willing/Brave the Elements/Boros Charm. What's more, this build is so fast that you really only need to protect him for a turn or two to secure a victory. I've had Hero swing for 14 evasive damage on turn three a number of times already.
You should give the list a shot, because I think it's bloody competitive. Yes, I am a little less thrilled with Hoplite, but try Hero out in particular--he's absolute madness.
This deck is remarkably fast, meaning it gets its damage in far quicker than the midrange and control decks we're seeing a lot of recently. The God's Willing and Brave The Elements act like extra hexproof effects, but that can also make a creature evasive for a large hit. Gladecover and Hero of Iroas are all-stars. Third turn, strapping a madcap, alpha skills and ethereal armor to a Hero of Iroas is just insane. I strongly recommend testing this build.
EDIT: I listed "Battlewise Hoplite" earlier. I meant that to be "Favored Hoplite."
Just a thought. I don't know how often you hard-cast the Houseguard, and of course, the transmute ability is uncounterable, but wouldn't you usually be better off with Beseech the Queen? This might allow you to diversify you toolbox a little bit outside the 4cmc range, and it would make available every answer in the deck.
Inversion is just icing. The real cake is in the fact that if you have Haakon, Gravecrawler, and Vengevines in the yard then you have recurring instant offense.
You would be surprised. It's not hard to pair up one gravecrawler with another or else with a resilient Geralf's Messenger. Of course, the big difference is the mana cost. The first few turns are just so crucial, that dropping two on a 2/1 Bloodghast non-blocker on turn 2 just never feels strong enough to me. I would much rather play it turn one, or else drop it along with another 1 mana spell on turn 2.
That said, I like your advice on the manlands. What do you think of -1 Raging Ravine, -1 Treetop for +1 Lavaclaw Reaches and +1 Twilight Mire?
The inevitability is pretty crazy, and the deck is super resistant to removal. Once you start hitting multiple Finks and Geralfs it gets brutal. Gargadon is highly underrated, IMO, especially in a deck like this, where he allows your Strangleroot to become a 3/2 haste, speeds up Geralf's, and can easily get into play with a couple of gravecrawlers on the board. He also protects your critters from exile effects. Moreover, Gargadon combos with Finks and Melira, so the combo threat is always present. I am debating moving more combo pieces into the maindeck, and wondered what other people thought of putting Birthing Pod into here somewhere.
scgcyrus posted a 3-1 result in MTGO in a meta studded with all the top tier decks. He's still running Crusaders as his wincon, but aside from four Lashwrithe, there is no notable pump in the deck. No Batterskull, but a single Wurmcoil Engine instead.
The MOST interesting feature to me by far is the discard suite:
4 Inquisition
4 Thoughtseize
1 Despise
1 Duress
And that's just the main deck, he's also got a Despise and a Duress in the side, as well. It seems like you can put someone on their heels real fast with a suite like this, knocking out key tempo cards from their hand before they even hit the board. Obviously, Thoughtseize is much easier to do in a mono color deck.
It's a curious build, indeed, and I am interested by the success that this guy has seen with it.
I have to say I'm with 1000 on the Vengevine. Dropping one on turn 2 is just nasty, and when multiples start jumping out of the yard, over and over. Totally. Insane.
The great thing about the progression of this deck is that it's not just a "Dredgevine" deck anymore. It's not a one-trick pony and the GY hate is not super effective. You can go nuclear on a lotleth or fall back onto Haakon + Nameless.
Personally, I think Bloodghast is pretty unimpressive here. Maximize your synergies. Experiment.
Has anyone given testing to Blasting Station? I have been giving it a run in a persist/undying themed jund deck that features Geralf's Messenger and Gravecrawler to great success. Blasting Station is pretty brutal with any recurring critters, and if you throw a Death Baron and a Reassembling Skeleton into the mix........
If I had a critique of your deck, it would be that for a heroic deck it is too creature-heavy, meaning you won't get all that many heroic triggers going. Also, as you're not going to reach the mana count consistently, I would warn against Elspeth and Fated. Since you're playing an aggro deck, your solutions should be pro-active aggro solutions rather than reactive solutions.
I'm curious as to how Dauntless Onslaught, Eidolon of Countless Battles, and Launch the Fleet have worked out for you. I've played around with Launch, but I'm usually unimpressed, as you really need to flood the board for it to work out. My problem is that my heroic decks have not been real creature-heavy like yours.
My Boros Heroic has taken on a slightly different look:
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Satyr Hoplite
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Hero of Iroas
3 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
4 Madcap Skills
4 Dragon Mantle
1 Titan's Strength
2 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Strike
4 Gods Willing
3 Ajani's Presence
3 Boros Charm
1 Ajani's Presence
1 Boros Charm
3 Mortal Obstinacy
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Magma Spray
2 Titan's Strength
Some notes on card choices/strategies:
Akroan Crusader: I initially shied away from this guy, but he's been rock solid. When you're facing down a lot of Devour Flesh, this guy can really save your bacon. The fact that the tokens come out with haste creates a lot of opportunity to get in extra damage.
Dragon Mantle: This card is so underrated it's not even funny. For the longest time, I turned my nose up at it, but after I saw that SCG Columbus Invitational winner ran 4 in his sligh deck, I figured I would give it a shot. So far, I am impressed and surprised. In the deck, it's worst case scenario is generally heroic trigger + draw a card. That extra card is actually huge, as it prevents you from taking negative CA, and digs to your next land drops, etc. Also, the firebreathing is underrated, as it gives your creatures the strength to punch through all kinds of popular blockers, including, most notably, Courser of Kruphix and Sylvan Caryatid.
Titan's Strength: Usually, this acts as +4/+2 and a scry. Again, punches through blockers. The scry is very useful.
Mortal Obstinacy: Another sleeper card that's really useful with all of the enchantments floating out there now. Personally, I like this better than Ethereal Armor, as I'm seldom stacking a million auras onto the field. I've been going back and forth whether to put this into the main deck in place of Titan's Strength.
Ordeal of Heliod: This sideboard card has been great against burn and other aggro decks. With all of my guys getting heroic counters, popping it off for 10 life is usually a cinch.
I am currently running 18 lands and, oddly enough, it has hardly been an issue at all. I think the difference has been from running so many different scry effects, and Dragon Mantle, as well. However, I am on the verge of going to 19 lands, just to make sure I don't have to take too many mulligans. Any more lands than that would be out of the question, for me. This deck fires on all cylinders with 3 land out, and no card costs more than 2.
So far, the deck has been not just fun, but downright competitive. It has solid matchups against Courser decks, UW control, and it's explosive enough to outpace most other aggro decks. I sometimes still have trouble against Black Devotion decks. Getting hit with Thoughtseize and then a removal string can be completely backbreaking, especially since I'm a little creature-thin at the outset. Akroan Crusader performs well in the matchup, but it's still very tough. I'm looking for some advice on how to strengthen this matchup.
4 Sacred Foundry
6 Mountain
8 Plains
4 Satyr Hoplite
4 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
4 Hero of Iroas
4 Madcap Skills
4 Ordeal of Purphoros
4 Gods Willing
4 Ajani's Presence
4 Boros Charm
Very Straight-Forward, 100% dedicated to Heroically beating face ASAP. I do wish there were another 1 mana enchantment to replace Ordeal of Purphors, but I think this has the capacity to blitz the opponent, and has the protection spells to squeeze in that quick damage. Thoughts?
"The one situation I see this guy being played in is a deck with firedrinker satyr/Rakdos Cackler/This guy + 3 sets of enchantments. If this deck exists, thats where it belongs, otherwise I just don't see it."
I've been running with a Naya Heroic/Aura deck with Madcap and Ethereal, and the key is to run your enchantments out with cheap protection like Ranger's Guile and God's Willing, which both have the extra boon of adding a Heroic counter when you fend off a removal spell. It's a risky strategy, takes discipline to execute, but with Heroic, you don't need but a couple swings to finish a game. Boros Charm loves heroic, btw.
I'll be giving Satyr Hoplite a whirl, for sure.
You should give the list a shot, because I think it's bloody competitive. Yes, I am a little less thrilled with Hoplite, but try Hero out in particular--he's absolute madness.
4 Temple Garden
4 Stomping Ground
3 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Temple of Abandon
2 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Hero of Iroas
2 Dryad Militant
4 Madcap Skills
4 Etherial Armor
4 God's Willing
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Alpha Authority
2 Brave the Elements
1 Gift of Orzhova
1 Unflinching Courage
1 Brave the Elements
1 Gift of Orzhova
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
1 Unflinching Courage
3 Mortal's Resolve
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars
This deck is remarkably fast, meaning it gets its damage in far quicker than the midrange and control decks we're seeing a lot of recently. The God's Willing and Brave The Elements act like extra hexproof effects, but that can also make a creature evasive for a large hit. Gladecover and Hero of Iroas are all-stars. Third turn, strapping a madcap, alpha skills and ethereal armor to a Hero of Iroas is just insane. I strongly recommend testing this build.
EDIT: I listed "Battlewise Hoplite" earlier. I meant that to be "Favored Hoplite."
That said, I like your advice on the manlands. What do you think of -1 Raging Ravine, -1 Treetop for +1 Lavaclaw Reaches and +1 Twilight Mire?
Is there a better play than Thalia for the deck, though?
3 Marsh Flats
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Twilight Mire
3 Treetop Village
2 Raging Ravine
4 Gravecrawler
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Tragic Slip
1 Mortarpod
1 Blasting Station
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Blasting Station
1 Murderous Redcap
4 Fulminator Mage
3 Rakdos Charm
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Thoughtseize
The inevitability is pretty crazy, and the deck is super resistant to removal. Once you start hitting multiple Finks and Geralfs it gets brutal. Gargadon is highly underrated, IMO, especially in a deck like this, where he allows your Strangleroot to become a 3/2 haste, speeds up Geralf's, and can easily get into play with a couple of gravecrawlers on the board. He also protects your critters from exile effects. Moreover, Gargadon combos with Finks and Melira, so the combo threat is always present. I am debating moving more combo pieces into the maindeck, and wondered what other people thought of putting Birthing Pod into here somewhere.
The MOST interesting feature to me by far is the discard suite:
4 Inquisition
4 Thoughtseize
1 Despise
1 Duress
And that's just the main deck, he's also got a Despise and a Duress in the side, as well. It seems like you can put someone on their heels real fast with a suite like this, knocking out key tempo cards from their hand before they even hit the board. Obviously, Thoughtseize is much easier to do in a mono color deck.
It's a curious build, indeed, and I am interested by the success that this guy has seen with it.
The great thing about the progression of this deck is that it's not just a "Dredgevine" deck anymore. It's not a one-trick pony and the GY hate is not super effective. You can go nuclear on a lotleth or fall back onto Haakon + Nameless.
Personally, I think Bloodghast is pretty unimpressive here. Maximize your synergies. Experiment.