1.) When Worldgorger Dragon enter the battlefield, tap Kiki-Jiki to create another Worldgorger.
~the trigger for "When Worldgorger Dragon enters the battlefield, exile all other permanents you control." is on the stack.
2.) When the second Worldgorger is created another "When Worldgorger Dragon enters the battlefield, exile all other permanents you control." trigger is placed on the stack.
3.) When that trigger resolves all other permanents will be exiled, including Kiki and the "real" Worldgorger, along with lands, etc.
4.) The trigger for the "real" Worldgorger "When Worldgorger Dragon leaves the battlefield, return the exiled cards to the battlefield under their owners' control." will go onto the stack.
~this does nothing as it didn't have anything exiled as the original trigger is still on the stack.
5.) The trigger for the "real" Worldgorger "When Worldgorger Dragon enters the battlefield, exile all other permanents you control." will resolve and this will exile the token copy of Worldgorger.
6.) The trigger for the token copy of Worldgorger "When Worldgorger Dragon leaves the battlefield, return the exiled cards to the battlefield under their owners' control." will go onto the stack, and resolve.
~this returns the Kiki-Jiki and "real" Worldgorger to play, along with untapped lands, and you are exactly back to Step 1) where you can keep repeating this loop getting infinite mana and ETB triggers with other permanents.
When you are ready to stop, don't make a token copy of Worldgorger, all your permanents will be exiled (except Worldgorger), but you have infinite mana, and assumes you have some win method from there.
It just never took off on Magic online, so couldn't get any games rolling, otherwise I'd still be playing it today.
Might pay to put an "archive" section for deck lists as it's a rotating format, and it might lead some new people astray thinking that the deck lists are somehow relevant. Don't want new players to Magic spending money on the wrong things.
I've labeled all my stuff [Retired / Rotated out], but honestly just better to have a section and move them, just in case.
The old untap during opponents turns, to basically take an extra..every players turn is something that I've been doing since I started playing commander. It's an oldie but a goodie.
The short answer is that it's always going to be tough to beat, unless your group really does clamp down and make them the archenemy from the word go.
That's why people need to mix it up rather than always going for the same color-pie. Punish them. The way the need to counter act this is by bringing a different deck..job done.
She has proven to be an all-star as both a commander and a key card in the 99 for a lot of builds, so there is a high demand for her in general for the commander format.
For example if you were to make a serious Prime Speaker Vannifar build, you'd really want her in the deck.
Conspiracy: Take the Crown set has just gone up in value overall, creeping up over $100 more in just the last year.
I don't know if anything else specifically has caused Selvala to spike, she is only legal in Commander, Vintage and Legacy, where I doubt she sees any play in the other two, so it's a testament to how popular EDH really is and how much it effects the pricing of Magic in general.
Oh yeah, remember when you didn't actually lose the game for being on zero life until you went to the end of a phase? Crazy, you'd get lightning bolted to negative life, and you'd just keep merrily casting spells like nothing had happened.
For those that might have already read this thread in the past, you might notice that the formatting has been spruced up a lot. This is in part due to getting it recognized as an official primer. Wish me luck.
One significant difference is that there is only one deck being presented. I talk about this in the section 'Deck History' a bit in the primer, but I've essentially fused elements of both the Superfriends and Reanimation into one deck, that is actually more robust and fun, so made sense in the end.
I wonder if those walkers are going to be all new versions or perhaps we'll get a bunch of reprints that won't be Standard legal, kinda like the Masterpieces, because it sounds like Limited could become a snoozefest with everybody having 6 walkers in the prerelease and a similar ungodly amount in drafts, to say nothing of the implications for what has so far been an amazing Standard season.
I hope they reprint Karn and Ugin so the prices tank and I can afford to complete my Tron deck:D
My money is on this. There is no way you can introduce 36 new planeswalkers to Standard and not stuff up every other archetype. It just too hard to design balance in the format.
Also designing from an R&D perspective for 36 walkers is just way too difficult. They are on the whole going to be reprints for sure.
1.) When Worldgorger Dragon enter the battlefield, tap Kiki-Jiki to create another Worldgorger.
~the trigger for "When Worldgorger Dragon enters the battlefield, exile all other permanents you control." is on the stack.
~this does nothing as it didn't have anything exiled as the original trigger is still on the stack.
~this returns the Kiki-Jiki and "real" Worldgorger to play, along with untapped lands, and you are exactly back to Step 1) where you can keep repeating this loop getting infinite mana and ETB triggers with other permanents.
Tidal Control could be used to shut down some opponents for at least 3 or 4 turns potentially.
Look at recurring these types of enchantments with Dowsing Shaman.
Guile can be used in fun ways with this type of idea of countering.
It just never took off on Magic online, so couldn't get any games rolling, otherwise I'd still be playing it today.
Might pay to put an "archive" section for deck lists as it's a rotating format, and it might lead some new people astray thinking that the deck lists are somehow relevant. Don't want new players to Magic spending money on the wrong things.
I've labeled all my stuff [Retired / Rotated out], but honestly just better to have a section and move them, just in case.
The short answer is that it's always going to be tough to beat, unless your group really does clamp down and make them the archenemy from the word go.
But if I was to make some "anti" strategies, here are some cards that can work against them;
Dosan the Falling Leaf
City of Solitude
Hall of Gemstone
Price of Glory
If they ALWAYS bring blue, then hello..
Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, Guttural Response, Ricochet Trap, Boil, Carpet of Flowers, Choke.
That's why people need to mix it up rather than always going for the same color-pie. Punish them. The way the need to counter act this is by bringing a different deck..job done.
The next suggestions are less scientific, but with Gruul being the "anti-blue" colors, you could run Xenagos, God of Revels as I find it's pretty great at killing the first player you target.
The haste element makes it hard to interact with if you get a (Dosan the Falling Leaf, City of Solitude, Hall of Gemstone, Price of Glory, etc) down.
Other spells to back this up;
- Spellbreaker Behemoth
- Emrakul, the Promised End
- Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
- Kozilek, the Great Distortion
- Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
- World Breaker
- Carnage Tyrant
- Prowling Serpopard
The Eldrazi cast triggers are excellent against counterspells, and thump really hard. You need to back this up with a lot of ramp however.Let me know if any of this tickles your fancy, give me a budget, and I can help you make a deck.
For example if you were to make a serious Prime Speaker Vannifar build, you'd really want her in the deck.
Conspiracy: Take the Crown set has just gone up in value overall, creeping up over $100 more in just the last year.
I don't know if anything else specifically has caused Selvala to spike, she is only legal in Commander, Vintage and Legacy, where I doubt she sees any play in the other two, so it's a testament to how popular EDH really is and how much it effects the pricing of Magic in general.
Hateflayer/Goblin Sharpshooter + Elemental Mastery + Phyrexian Altar/Thermopod = infinite damage and infinite tokens
Sword of Feast and Famine + Aggravated Assault/Hellkite Charger = infinite combat phases as long as you deal combat damage.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Worldgorger Dragon = infinite mana and infinite ETB of permanents you control.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Combat Celebrant = infinite combat steps.
You can use cards like;
Wave of Vitriol
Natural Balance
Creeping Corrosion
Rampage of the Clans
Seeds of Innocence
Ezuri's Predation
The Great Aurora
Tornado
You can look at planeswalkers for adding to the grindy value;
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Karn Liberated
Vivien Reid
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
Garruk Wildspeaker
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Nissa, Vital Force
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Nissa, Worldwaker
Run Doubling Season to put these in ultimate range straight away.
Then using Seasons Past and Praetor's Counsel to renew these big powerful cards. Seasons Past allows you to keep this up indefinitely.
Then you want to use some artifacts that also lock out opponents;
Torpor Orb, Cursed Totem, Damping Sphere, Null Rod, Trinisphere.
Because you'd be running a lot of mass artifact removal like Wave of Vitriol, etc, running Creeping Renaissance is good insurance to get these back.
Hmm, I like it when I convince myself of a deck..
What am I missing?
As a side note, I'd play Faithless Looting and Light Up the Stage to smooth out your draws a bit.
It has pretty comprehensive run down of all the interactions.
For those that might have already read this thread in the past, you might notice that the formatting has been spruced up a lot. This is in part due to getting it recognized as an official primer. Wish me luck.
One significant difference is that there is only one deck being presented. I talk about this in the section 'Deck History' a bit in the primer, but I've essentially fused elements of both the Superfriends and Reanimation into one deck, that is actually more robust and fun, so made sense in the end.
Primer
Added
+ Reanimate
+ Animate Dead
+ Dance of the Dead
+ Necromancy
+ Entomb
+ Intuition
+ Buried Alive
+ Razaketh, the Foulblooded
+ Leonin Relic-Warder
+ Reveillark
+ Snapcaster Mage
+ Lion's Eye Diamond
+ Fetid Heath
Removed
- Dark Confidant
- Oath of Liliana
- Treasure Map
- Preordain
- Ponder
- Entreat the Angels
- Thrummingbird
- Akroma's Vengeance
- Narset Transcendent
- Gilded Lotus
- Augur of Bolas
- Omenspeaker
- Island
Also designing from an R&D perspective for 36 walkers is just way too difficult. They are on the whole going to be reprints for sure.