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Magic Market Index for May 24th, 2018
 
Treasure Cruisin' Shalai Brawl
 
Ravnica: The Broken Guildpact
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from doc.brown »
    yeah I'd like to get on there but stupid time difference would make it highly unlikely for me to be online at the same time as you guys (i'm in Australia)
    We already have a bunch of different time zones present, that's not a big problem.
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Not everything will necessarily be worth catching up to. The Discord is more for fast freeform discussion and brainstorming (pun fully intended), anyone with new decklists, big announcements (e.g. tournament reports), grand ideas, interesting links etc. should definitely (also) make a post her. Discord allows for live discussion of streams and the like as well as more "organic" arguments. If the exchange between xenob8, purklefluff and necrosed had taken place here, it would have probably taken a week and expanded this thread to the size of the UTron Primer.
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from herkamurjones »
    I like both, but prefer short, 1 match videos. You can always put all 5 matches of a league in a playlist but much easier to digest in shorter 20-45 min videos.

    Edit: I appreciate both sides of the Dictate/As Foretold debate. They are two different types/styles of deck though. Is there a hybrid lurking somewhere in there? I believe so, but not sure exactly what/where it is.

    I do want to try both versions and try to land on a single "hybrid" that has JtMS, Search, As Foretold, Dictate, "the usual suspects" and probably AV.

    I'm also thinking that with Jace, we probably want to prioritize Gigadrowse and Remand because the line could be (worst case on the draw):
    T1: island, go
    T2: island, go, on your upkeep giga your two lands
    T3: island, either exhaustion or go
    T4: land, Jace, maybe set up miracle
    T5: miracle, land, dictate or as foretold or go..

    You can probably see where I'm getting at, and it may have been mentioned in one of the 50+ comments since THE GREAT UNBANNING announcement, but we want 4x Gigadrowse in one style of the new deck.
    Well, I hope that traditional lists don't become obsolete, mostly because I enjoy the gameplay they currently offer. Plus, that would be a lot of new foils to get... Unsure how I feel about messing with the Gigadrowses/Exhaustions. So far, making a meta call mostly meant deciding on a 3/4 or 4/3 split. And timewalkinonsunshine also didn't consider messing with them immediately. Can't say much about the As Foretold version in that regard.
    Quote from herkamurjones »

    Edit2: Just browsing MTGGoldfish and came upon a 5-0 deck list piloted by Klump (not sure if we've been graced with their presence in here yet). Here's the list:

    They were clearly hedging against a burn meta and not affinity. Also probably expected something like choke or boil with the 2 different non-basic U sources. I feel like we will be seeing more of those hate cards along with Guttural Response Smiledown
    Funny that the first Turns list to win the decklist publishing roulette Wizards introduced is a fairly stock list that is just jamming the full playset Jaces. Grin
    Things to note in these decklists:
    • A bunch of Jaces, especially considering that it includes decklists from before the unbannings going live.
    • Many playsets/3 copies of Jace and three decks that play mainboard Disrupting Shoals alongside them.
    • There's an absolutely bonkers list among these that plays Blood Moon, As Foretold + Ancestral Vision and JtMS & BBE. I suppose these weirder lists (there's also BW Superfriends and Naya Boom/Bust Midrange) really benefit, so to say, from the changes to the publishing policy.
    Seeing more Boils and Chokes would be unfortunate, but not much to do against that other than being wary of tapping out in certain situations. Guttural Response isn't the worst, as it only gets Cryptic, Remand and (sort of) Gigadrowse. Probably not even as annoying as Warping Wail.
    Quote from necrosed »
    A bit too long, a one hour video of me on the receiving end of two losses against Eldrazi Taxes and UR Prowess:
    As Foretold Turns Experience.
    Awesome! Maybe not the actual results, but seeing the deck in action. I'm not opposed to trying out Gigadrowses in the sideboard in your new "experimental" version, interested to see how that turns out. I'm also wondering whether the Tolaria West + Chalice synergy is really relevant. If you've gotten to transmute it, it's likely to late for it anyway (maybe it's fine against Burn in some situations, since you'll want to play it on 4 mana against them); that said, running Tolaria Wests makes a single Engineered Explosives a must-have in the sideboard if you ever splash a color.
    Quote from necrosed »
    And yes, I have an annoying voice. But hey, it's there. Smile I'll play some more and thing I'll record a league of something.
    No, not at all! Really. Your English may be slightly rough around the edges, but so would be mine and besides, people regularly watch Andrea Mengucci leagues, so that should also not be an issue.
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from herkamurjones »
    3b. BBE is going to be pretty solid against us. Seeing more K-Commands will likely make me drop Howling Mine entirely now. It still makes us discard a card and probably shocks us (since we've been unlikely to get a creature in their yard.)
    That might be a decent choice honestly. Remains to see how prevalent BBE Jund turns out, K-Command is definitely the dreamiest companion piece to Elf. On the flipside, its inability to deal with Jace might keep Abrupt Decay numbers low which would be great news for our Dictates.

    I'm also heavily considering jamming Remands again. Certainly helpful if you're aiming for the "live until Jace" plan.
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    It would take a lot for me part ways with my playset of Leylines in the sideboard, but then again, I'm playing the white splash. Throwing them in the mainboard sounds like a massive overreaction, just because Bogles and Prison decks can do it doesn't mean we should. Don't think a Modern meta where playing them mainboard in Turns was correct would even be enjoyable.

    I agree that as long as you're jamming 3 to 4 copies of Gigadrowse, non-aggressive blue decks shouldn't be much of a threat (once you're staring down a Death's Shadow or a bunch of merfolk is when all bets are off). It would be a bit unfortunate if we actually had to start worrying about Invasive Surgery (which I think would definitely require Modern Miracles taking off) - I'm still having a hard time keeping in mind that Warping Wail is a real card.
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    I think your calculation also doesn't consider that you have to be on the draw for Caverns, so not every game is elligible.
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Well, that's playing 2 Caverns for you. I'm sure this is confirmation bias, but Caverns feels like my second most common first draw of the game, the most common being Temporal Mastery of course. Grin
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from herkamurjones »
    Also, about the number of Jace. Probably looking to run 2-3 in the turns deck. He does not replace Dictate, maybe Mine/Search (although I'm high on Search right now because of the "ramp" nature of the card). I really want 4 Opt now, to increase the chance to miracle on their turn. Are we still looking to splash for removal/disruption (B) or good sideboard cards (W)? Seems like the "Jace" version wants to be mono-U so we can maximize on Gigadrowse.
    I'm already very skeptical about Search in regular Turns and I'm not sure if it's necessary especially with Jace in the deck. Do test all these things though, this is all about pooling as much information as possible. Gigadrowse could be really big against Jace Control decks in the future (apart from, you know, just being a good card in Turns in general) and the splashes don't really hurt it. Most splashes don't include any nonblue sources except the usual colorless ones (Inkmoth, Mikokoro etc.).
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from herkamurjones »
    Quote from necrosed »
    I think with Jaces you will want to up the fetchland count to at least 6 and up the Temporal Mastery to 4, @timewalkinonsunshine.
    And what are all our thoughts on dropping the number of non-basic lands to minimize the targets for Field of Ruin? Seems like we don't want to get our perfectly placed top deck shuffled away because we have a valid target. Just sayin..
    I would be surprised if that was enough of an issue. And you surely can't even consider that in any of the versions with splashes. Using Field of Ruin also means less ressources spent on removing and we can't really run out of basics either.

    Quote from herkamurjones »
    ALSO: so much for having an all foiled out deck! At least until the M25 copies come way down in price. The Eternal Masters versions were $115-$120 yesterday, and I missed the boat by minutes this morning. Would probably pay that again for a foil..I know, unlikely now. Frown
    Yep, sounds really rough. From the Vault is kind of terrible, but it might have to do for a while for me. A German foil would be 1000€...

    Edit regarding your second edit: Good god, that deck looks ridiculous. This is all highly speculative still, but it does make sense that Jace could just be your single wincon. Not so sure about the As Foretold plan, but it looks like he already went for two Shoals in the sideboard. That and Commandeer seem pretty nice for protecting Jace in theory.
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Wow. Just got home from Toronto and now there's a Jace unban. What a weekend!

    Here's my round 12 game 3 against Jon Stern on Burn. I think misplayed my land on turn 3, I don't remember exactly why I played the Drowned Catacomb over Sunken Hollow.

    Here's what I was playing at GP Toronto:


    Post unban, I'm going to start out by trying -1 Howling Mine, -1 Part the Waterveil, +2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor and see how that plays. With this build, I think it's somewhat realistic that Jace could be protected enough with Push/Brutality/Snapcaster/-1. While I understand that he won't always stick around when you slam him on turn 4, he's definitely powerful enough that he's worth it the times he does stick around. My gut instinct says that 2 or 3 Mind Sculptors is probably sweet spot, because it's you don't want too many 4-mana sorcery speed cards clogging up your hand, and we already have a bunch of those at 5+ mana.
    Always nice to see you carrying the light of extra turns out into the wild complete with the trademark excessive sleeving. Rough end to the Burn match, though it was kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't at that point.

    Quote from Luthier86 »
    This is HUGE news for Turns.
    What y'all aren't talking about is that whether or not we even use Jace, the meta is going to shift wayyy towards blue midrange and control. We're the combo deck with 4 Gigadrowse. It's finally a reason to play Turns over Storm or Ad Nauseam.
    Quote from jfuite »
    Turns might benefit from Jace being present in the deck of others: them tapping out on turn four.
    This might actually be true. Something to think about for sure.

    Does a Jace inclusion make Disrupting Shoal a consideration or is that getting too cute?
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from herkamurjones »
    well then.. big daddy JtMS is free at last. Do we want this? thinking yes, but unsure completely.
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/february-12-2018-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2018-02-12
    Bad news for those who try to foil out their Turns. Grin Which is not to say that I'm sure he'll be playable. JTMS in Modern is a big unknown in general and we're definitely not looking to play the same game as the Jace decks in Legacy.

    Ancestral Vision I'm still not a fan of, it is very good against B/G/x, but Jund is no longer one of the kings of the format so I'm not sure if that is enough of a concern to play a card I'd otherwise consider subpar.
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Leyline is amazing and Chalice is a bit of a catch-all in a format where those are really hard to come by. You're of course not likely to play against Infect, Elves or freaking Soul Sisters, but you can encounter anything in Modern. I was always very satisfied with both.
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from 1Rey »
    Quote from purklefluff »
    Oh and I think meddling mage is a serious consideration for this deck in the sideboard.
    Beats ad naus, storm and a few others.

    You could just play Runed Halo instead.
    That doesn't do it against Ad Nauseam, everyone is playing Lab Maniac mainboard in addition to Lightning Storm. Nevermore would be the noncreature option.

    I've been taking a couple of forays in Modern, trying out Living End (the classic Jund variant, pretty sweet) and I'll check out the GW Company Valuetown deck next. Turns is still closest to my heart of course. Looks like there's no real consensus on Search, so I'll do some testing of my own sometime soon, though the next actual GP I'm preparing for is Limited.
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Bedankt mindful that in a control match up
    Did your autocorrect just out you as Dutch? Grin

    Can anyone say whether Opt improves Thing by a lot? Because those two sound like they should work very well together.
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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from Volttikoira »
    Quote from Rotanimod12 »
    One thing I did think about the UW version. I've seen some lists playing Riot Control which seems pretty cool, just wondered if anyone had tried out Repel the abominable as a 2 mana alternative that does nearly the same thing (there are a few humans like blighted agent (sadly) but being one mana less could make a difference. And hey our snapcasters still get to deal damage (though this is obviously NOT the main appeal)). Any thoughts on this?
    Nice find! There are enough corner cases where Repel is just strictly worse though (Swiftspear, Delver, Thalia, Snapcaster and of course the whole Humans deck) that I'd rather stick with Riot Control for now

    Is Storm the worst matchup for us at the moment? Sure seems like it. After fixing my matchups agains DS and Burn with some white sideboard tech I realised I still can't do jack against Baral and co.
    Well, Repel is also worse (unless you need to get in damage with Snapcaster against blockers, but let's be real) than Pollen Lullaby, Angelsong, Holy Day or Ethereal Haze against anything but burn. Burn spells are generally instant speed, so in all likelihood you're still better off playing Dawn Charm instead. The big exception to that would be Scapeshift, but in that matchup, paying three mana for Riot Control should be acceptable.

    Storm is a matchup you can heavily gear your sideboard against (especially in white), but unless you expect it to have a really large share, it's not really worth it. If you have removal for Baral/Electromancer that's great, but you'll usually have to get lucky. Sucks, but that is life against Storm for any deck that doesn't have hard disruption or fast aggro.

    can some one please direct me to the page with sideboard explanations.

    so many things im not sure about.
    for example whats thing in the ice for
    There have been various short blurbs written about sideboarding here and there in this thread, but I just saw that there's still nothing about it in the new primer... Thing is three things (heh): alternative wincon, early blocker and a boardclear. So you can just do a quick rundown in your head - Is it possible that Part the Waterveil won't win you the game (mostly due to it potentially getting hit by Surgical Extraction)? Can it perform some valuable early blocking (Wild Nacatl and Goblin Guide come to mind)? And is the threat of a mass bounce (possibly instant speed) significant for your opponent's deck? If the answer to one of these is an emphatic "yes", than you can look to sideboard them in.


    Edit: Looks like Opt is still slightly contentious? Since I've had many a wet dream about a Preordain unbanning, I'm definitely going to try out a cantrip that seems a bit more playable than Sleight of Hand as going with more cantrips in combo decks is typically correct. On the topic of Chalice and Opt, I'm pretty sure that siding out Opt and keeping in Serum Visions when looking to put the Chalice on 1 is correct; it means that you're trying to play Chalice turn 2, so being able to play a turn 1 Serum Visions to find a Chalice if it's not in your opening hand is quite good given how strong Chalice is in the relevant matchups.
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