Ok, my opponent tries to enchant his creature with Eldrazi Conscription and I cast Vines of Vastwood targeting his creature. Does that negate the conscription? I seem to remember hearing something in the past about auras not actually targeting the creatures they enchant. Can anyone help me out? Thanks - Chip
Why are these lists running Oblivion Ring over Maelstrom Pulse? I realize ring is a common but this is just a theoretical list. The stronger card should be used... less drawbacks than Oblivion Ring.
I completely agree on the figure. the only problem is I was having trouble figuring out what to put in his place. Figure is a very unique card in what it does, and outside of putting in another two or three drop, there's not much I can really see that would stick into his slot.
Honestly, the first two things that come to mind are Tattermunge Maniac and Birds of Paradise. BOP brings your deck closer to being dark bant but it seems like a logical progression. You're going to be able to ramp into your thoctars and dorans on T2 more and you're running four colors (the advantage there is obvious enough). Maniac is just aggressive as hell on his own.
Dark Zoo? it splashes black for 3 Whole Cards? PISH! honestly Doran doesn't have any spot in that deck, At all!. IF you're going to go Dark Zoo, Ditch the Dorans, Throw in Anathemancers to hate on all the current decks that have ridiculously Expensive Manabases, (It's a Price of Progress that Only Targets instead of global) And Ditch the Crap Terrors for Terminates.
a Dark Zoo should ONLY Splash Black for Sculler/Thoughtseize like effects based on Metagame Choices. yes Sculler is a SICK card and the best Zombie in Standard right now, but seriously? Doran.. I'm sorry but Zoo is about Aggro, and has alot of Hight Power, Low Toughness beaters.
Terminate is FAR Better than terror, since in Standard there is ALOT of Black and Artifact based decks, including DarkBant, JundRamp, EsperAffinity and others. and Anathemancer well.. he pretty much speaks for himself. He's a Sleeper Rare and I'm getting 2 Playsets if i'm able, Just because he hates on High Manabases.
Dude, whatever you're smoking, you totally need to pass it this way...
The only two cards in his proposed build that would suffer from Doran's ability are Bloodbraid Elf and Woolly Thoctar. The elf is played almost exclusively for his hastiness and cascade, and the thoctar?... are you kidding? He's only a 3cc 4/4 with no drawback? Man, I wouldn't play that in aaaaaaanything. What a baaaaad caaaaard.
Doran, The Siege Tower throws seven different kinds of smoke in any remotely aggressive strategy. Granted, Terminate kills him on the cheap, but wait a minute... didn't they print something in conflux that removes him from the game for W? I believe they did. Surprise! - he's still good.
As for Anathemancer, he's not a rare and he's only a sleeper if you don't know how to read or you haven't seen the visual spoiler yet.
@Nightfall - That decklist smells like brutality to me. The biggest issue I see is Figure of Destiny. I don't think he's going to get bigger than 2/2 very often. If that's all you want him to do, no problem. I also think you are correct to run the 'mancer in the board. He's probably only worth his weight if you're matched up with a deck running 75%+ of nonbasics and will be completely worthless against every mono- and most two-color decks you encounter.
Here's my preliminary build. It's basically LSV's deck, as I've found no flaws. In the board there's Zealous Persecution and Identity Crisis. I really want to fit in Persecution MD because it seems as insane as Pontiff was in ghost husk, but I don't know where you would fit it. Maindeck is really tight.
THANK YOU. Zealous Persecution is designed to be ridiculously effective in this deck and it's being completely overlooked. I personally think you could move one terror and one finks to the board to MD a pair of persecutions. I'm sure you could find room for the third one maindeck by looking at your local meta and figuring out what decks you're most likely to encounter.
I personally like this build. Why is Zealous Persecution getting so little love? It's great against aggressive strategies, good against midrange, and admittedly half as good against control (first card to go after game 1), but even against control it has some value and it's a nightmare for kith and fae. Thoughts? Couldn't find much discussion on this card in previous posts...
I realize I am probably being an idiot but I can't find the MWS text file for ALA Reborn. I know someone on MTGS usually makes one. Did this forum stop posting one, has it been moved, or can I just not navigate this site?
The deck looks solid enough that I'm gonna build it. The one thing I would change are the Secluded Glen. I would go with Underground River because it won't come into play tapped but still producing the necessary mana.
This isn't the first time that issue has been mentioned so I'm going to comment on it. I don't think you're making a bad choice in replacing the Glens but I chose them because this deck doesn't ever want to inflict damage upon itself. Plus, if you look at the mana base on the whole, there are only 7 CIPT lands in the deck out of a total 24 which means that the majority of the time you'll be able to pick and choose when to lay down the tapped lands and play others that provide mana immediately when you need them for early spells, etc. In my own testing I haven't once had an issue with Secluded Glen so far. Try it with the glens and the rivers and report back on which you think is the worse of two evils.
On another note, I'm considering dropping a leviathan for a Call the Skybreaker (everybody loves a flying squid-ray) How 'bout 'dem apples?
I incorporated a lot of the suggested updates plus a sideboard Nuckles for the ultimatums in the longer match-ups. I dropped the Archmages because they weren't that good and I agree that Leviathan and Oona deserve spots here. Any other suggestions? Did I get the numbers wrong?
Ok, I started this list from rumor and an MTG article (took most sideboard notes from the article) and it is incredibly consistent. Won't say much else - just try it. I think it needs to be in the competitive forum when decks with rotated cards are moved out. This deck has been testing incredibly well on MWS (which some won't respect) and I think it needs a look if nothing else.
My biggest contribution to the deck is the mana base. I think it's as solid as they come. Give me any and all input on where this needs to go. If you didn't gather from the card arrangement, this is geared to beat five color control maindeck and aggro with SB. The SB has a variety of aggro-hating cards to choose from based on the style of aggro you're facing. Is there anything missing from the SB that it absolutely has to have based on the current metagame?
I would really like some comments on this deck as I am going to try to make it competitive very soon. Most of what I've heard is that it is kind of unfocused which I agree with to a certain extent. How can I make it more consistent? What are the weaknesses in my SB? Any comments are appreciated...
Hmmm, it seems like the splash of blue probly is worth butchering you mana base for, I would just replace the Careful Considerations with Harmonize and Mystic Snake with something, maybe some Shreikmaws. You dont really need Snakeform when you have acess to all the great removal that black has. I think Makeshift Mannequins my be cool main deck aswell, especially if you want to keep the blue splash, then you could play Mulldrifters
As far as Snakeform goes, one of the main reasons it is included is Chameleon Colossus in tandom with something else that damnation alone can't handle. I really want mannequin maindeck but at the same time I want the best chance at a game one win against tier one decks that I can manage and I can't find room for mannequin because of that. I'm definitely considering finding room for Shriekmaw.
Consideration is needed for CA and Retrace abuse. I consider the Retrace Discard Spell as 4-off, it is huge flood protection and very useful as a anticontrol card and to put lands in the Graveyard for Worm Harvest. I also think, that Civic Wayfinder deserves a slot.
I disagree on the discard spell, at least as a four-of. Maybe two would be nice for when they are randomly good? I'm glad you saw why Careful Consideration made it maindeck and warranted the splash. I almost made it Magus of the Bazaar but couldn't fit enough graveyard love without losing the theme of the deck.
The idea here is to control the board with damnation and kill with tokens via perseverance or Garruk Wildspeaker's Overrun. It plays pretty hard for Worm Harvest. I wanted to try Snakeform maindeck but couldn't find space. I think it may be good against some of the more hardy creatures in the format so I found room for a full complement SB. Please comment.
It just occurred to me that Gaddock Teeg will probably give this trouble but I haven't seen him much in standard. Please point out anything I'll have a particularly difficult time with. Thanks
Honestly, the first two things that come to mind are Tattermunge Maniac and Birds of Paradise. BOP brings your deck closer to being dark bant but it seems like a logical progression. You're going to be able to ramp into your thoctars and dorans on T2 more and you're running four colors (the advantage there is obvious enough). Maniac is just aggressive as hell on his own.
My personal call would be +1 Doran and +3 Birds.
Dude, whatever you're smoking, you totally need to pass it this way...
The only two cards in his proposed build that would suffer from Doran's ability are Bloodbraid Elf and Woolly Thoctar. The elf is played almost exclusively for his hastiness and cascade, and the thoctar?... are you kidding? He's only a 3cc 4/4 with no drawback? Man, I wouldn't play that in aaaaaaanything. What a baaaaad caaaaard.
Doran, The Siege Tower throws seven different kinds of smoke in any remotely aggressive strategy. Granted, Terminate kills him on the cheap, but wait a minute... didn't they print something in conflux that removes him from the game for W? I believe they did. Surprise! - he's still good.
As for Anathemancer, he's not a rare and he's only a sleeper if you don't know how to read or you haven't seen the visual spoiler yet.
@Nightfall - That decklist smells like brutality to me. The biggest issue I see is Figure of Destiny. I don't think he's going to get bigger than 2/2 very often. If that's all you want him to do, no problem. I also think you are correct to run the 'mancer in the board. He's probably only worth his weight if you're matched up with a deck running 75%+ of nonbasics and will be completely worthless against every mono- and most two-color decks you encounter.
THANK YOU. Zealous Persecution is designed to be ridiculously effective in this deck and it's being completely overlooked. I personally think you could move one terror and one finks to the board to MD a pair of persecutions. I'm sure you could find room for the third one maindeck by looking at your local meta and figuring out what decks you're most likely to encounter.
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Knight of Meadowgrain
4x Cloudgoat Ranger
3x Kitchen Finks
Spells
4x Bitterblossom
2x Zealous Persecution
4x Spectral Procession
4x Glorious Anthem
3x Ajani Goldmane
3x Terror
1x Thoughtseize
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Fetid Heath
4x Windbrisk Heights
3x Arcane Sanctum
3x Mutavault
2x Reflecting Pool
2x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Identity Crisis
4x Burrenton Forge-Tender
3x Thoughtseize
1x Zealous Persecution
2x Path to Exile
3x Wrath of God
I personally like this build. Why is Zealous Persecution getting so little love? It's great against aggressive strategies, good against midrange, and admittedly half as good against control (first card to go after game 1), but even against control it has some value and it's a nightmare for kith and fae. Thoughts? Couldn't find much discussion on this card in previous posts...
4x Rhox War Monk
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Sigiled Paladin
4x Giltspire Avenger
3x Rafiq of the Many
3x Exalted Angel
14 Spells
4x Bant Charm
3x Path to Exile
3x Elspeth, Knight Errant
4x Oblivion Ring
2x Ancient Ziggurat
4x Seaside Citadel
3x Bant Panorama
6x Forest
6x Plains
3x Island
3x Covenant of Minds
3x Hindering Light
4x Cancel
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Martial Coup
This isn't the first time that issue has been mentioned so I'm going to comment on it. I don't think you're making a bad choice in replacing the Glens but I chose them because this deck doesn't ever want to inflict damage upon itself. Plus, if you look at the mana base on the whole, there are only 7 CIPT lands in the deck out of a total 24 which means that the majority of the time you'll be able to pick and choose when to lay down the tapped lands and play others that provide mana immediately when you need them for early spells, etc. In my own testing I haven't once had an issue with Secluded Glen so far. Try it with the glens and the rivers and report back on which you think is the worse of two evils.
On another note, I'm considering dropping a leviathan for a Call the Skybreaker (everybody loves a flying squid-ray) How 'bout 'dem apples?
4x Sedraxis Specter
4x River Kelpie
4x Shriekmaw
4x Mulldrifter
2x Kederekt Leviathan
1x Oona, Queen of the Fae
Spells
2x Negate
3x Cancel
4x Cryptic Command
4x Makeshift Mannequin
1x Raven's Crime
1x Flame Jab
2x Cruel Ultimatum
4x Reflecting Pool
4x Crumbling Necropolis
3x Secluded Glen
3x Cascade Bluffs
2x Sunken Ruins
4x Island
2x Swamp
2x Mountain
4x Agony Warp
4x Infest
4x Remove Soul
2x Negate
1x Nucklavee
I incorporated a lot of the suggested updates plus a sideboard Nuckles for the ultimatums in the longer match-ups. I dropped the Archmages because they weren't that good and I agree that Leviathan and Oona deserve spots here. Any other suggestions? Did I get the numbers wrong?
4x Sedraxis Specter
4x River Kelpie
4x Shriekmaw
4x Mulldrifter
3x Glen-Elendra Archmage
Spells
3x Negate
4x Cancel
4x Cryptic Command
4x Makeshift Mannequin
2x Raven's Crime
4x Reflecting Pool
4x Crumbling Necropolis
3x Secluded Glen
3x Cascade Bluffs
2x Sunken Ruins
4x Island
2x Swamp
2x Mountain
4x Agony Warp
4x Infest
4x Remove Soul
3x Fleshbag Marauder
My biggest contribution to the deck is the mana base. I think it's as solid as they come. Give me any and all input on where this needs to go. If you didn't gather from the card arrangement, this is geared to beat five color control maindeck and aggro with SB. The SB has a variety of aggro-hating cards to choose from based on the style of aggro you're facing. Is there anything missing from the SB that it absolutely has to have based on the current metagame?
As far as Snakeform goes, one of the main reasons it is included is Chameleon Colossus in tandom with something else that damnation alone can't handle. I really want mannequin maindeck but at the same time I want the best chance at a game one win against tier one decks that I can manage and I can't find room for mannequin because of that. I'm definitely considering finding room for Shriekmaw.
I disagree on the discard spell, at least as a four-of. Maybe two would be nice for when they are randomly good? I'm glad you saw why Careful Consideration made it maindeck and warranted the splash. I almost made it Magus of the Bazaar but couldn't fit enough graveyard love without losing the theme of the deck.
No doubt.
3x Creakwood Liege
4x Mystic Snake
4x Kitchen Finks
2x Cloudthresher
3x Puppeteer Clique
20 Spells
4x Careful Consideration
4x Search for Tomorrow
3x Bitterblossom
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Worm Harvest
4x Damnation
1x Twilight Mire
2x Flooded Grove
4x Treetop Village
3x Reflecting Pool
2x Yavimaya Coast
2x Forest
3x Swamp
2x Island
2x Pendelhaven
3x River of Tears
4x Snakeform
2x Cloudthresher
3x Makeshift Mannequin
4x Krosan grip
2x Spitting Image
It just occurred to me that Gaddock Teeg will probably give this trouble but I haven't seen him much in standard. Please point out anything I'll have a particularly difficult time with. Thanks