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  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Quote from Steak »
    I went 2-2 with a list close to one of Ray's that had 2 chalices main board (link). Lost to Affinity and grixis death shadow, won against affinity and some weird (bad) valakut/through the breach deck. Some random thoughts:

    I thought Commit // memory was just ok. Putting stuff second from the top is nice but 4 mana is a lot. Every time I had the ability to play the second half of the card I opted not to because it would let my Opp draw 7 as well. Still needs testing.

    Torrential Gearhulk is pretty good when you have something to hit in the graveyard and a 5/6 body is always nice. It really sucks having repeal/condescend in the yard with Gearhulk in hand.

    I hadn't played affinity in literal months at my shop so I took out the hurkyl's recalls, naturally I played it twice. The match I lost I don't think the recalls would have saved me any way, he had really fast starts both games. The match I won the player was really new with the deck and made some bad choices. That might just be one matchup I don't pack hate for and try to dodge. Anyone have tips for playing against it?

    I didn't cast Gifts Ungiven all night, which is fine because I don't really know what to do with it. I threw it in to try it out on the fly. Also, anyone have tips for it?

    3 Spatial Contortion seems like too many.

    I ran that same list @ an 18-person paper modern event, going 3-1 (Loss- Amulet Titan, Wins- Traverse Shadow, Jund, G Tron). I don't like packing hate for Affinity. Hurkyl's Recall just feels too narrow to run as more than a 1-of in the sideboard and they can just re-barf out their hand so it just buys a turn. It's hard to know when to get max value from it (usually when Cranial Plating comes down) and when you just need to rip it off early to survive. I disagree on 3 Spatial Contortion being too much. I sometimes run 4...unlike Hurkyl's it doesn't have blow-out potential but it's much less narrow and answers all sorts of stuff in our bad matchups. Goblin Guides (be careful about using it on Monastery Swiftspear), Steel Overseer, Arbor Elf etc. Against Affinity I side in all my Spatials and save Repeal for Arcbound Ravager. Unfortunately our deck can't do much about an Affinity nut draw, but every deck has a menace. I prefer to dodge.

    Gifts Ungiven was a card I was scared to use for the longest time because it's difficult to use outside of a deck like Storm where it's almost always obvious what the correct choices are to trap an opponent. In U Tron it takes more intimate knowledge about your deck, your outs, future turns etc. The last situation I can remember was against Traverse Shadow. I was staring down a huge Death's Shadow and Tarmogoyf and just needed to buy time. Sundering Titan in hand but playing it would not leave enough blockers to stay alive. I was able to Gift out Engineered Explosives, Platinum Angel, Wurmcoil Engine and Walking Ballista meaning he had to topdeck some form of artifact destruction to kill me next turn no matter what combination of cards he gave me. He gave me the Ballista and Explosives. Explosives blew up his Shadow and Ballista chumped a Goyf. He dropped another Shadow. Next turn I was able to drop a Trinket Mage to block and tutored up Expedition Map, used it to find Buried Ruin, return Explosives to deal with the new Shadow. Eventually I found the opening I needed to drop Titan and lock him out of the game.

    Long anecdotal story and he still had outs on the topdeck, but Gifts can single-handedly pull you out of near-death situations once you become comfortable with it. Add in a Crucible of Worlds package and I just can't see not using it anymore. I've watched Shok blatantly half-ass Gifts choices after a few beers and still get massive value out of it.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Quote from NuBlkAu »
    played a comp league with U tron just now, my first in a bit, cause i wanted to try RayFuturePro's list that posted a few 5-0s recently (with a few modifications to my liking, i cant put Solemn simulacrum in a list) ... but yeah, went 5-0 myself!
    played vs:
    humans, merfolk, titanshift, URcontrol, hollowone roulette
    card notes:

    torrential gearhulk felt good everytime i saw it (1/1 snapcaster split) first time actually trying it, lol.
    supreme will also felt good everytime i had it.
    buried ruin won me a game or two (the fact that it immediately puts a card, ballista in this case, into your hand, vs on draw) in the gemstone caverns slot
    did not cast Committ/memory once, so i'm not sure about that one...

    also, nimble obstructionist vs TKS as a postboard tempo threat , not sure which i like more.

    Being able to take down both Humans and Merfolk in the same league is pretty impressive. I consider both of those in my absolute worst matchups category. Definitely curious to see a list that's able to do that with any consistency. I use to side-in 2x TKS, especially in paper because my meta is full of filthy combo decks like Ad Nauseum, but the bird has really been impressive. Versatility is awesome. Stifling fetches/titans, end-stepping him in to kill a walker and a flash 3power blocker...all feel pretty good. My issue is not having a good grasp on when to side him in. I tend to do it against any deck that's chock full of fetches and walkers. Should I be using him more as a beater when they take out removal?
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Quote from Unnombrepls »
    Thoughts about this?

    Specific hate card that actually no one ends up playing or blood moon for 1 less mana and affordable for any deck?

    Not concerned at all TBH. Aggro decks are our worst matchup and if they take a turn off to play that then we are in great shape because they're just giving us extra turns. Same goes for midrange really. The hot midrange deck is Jund and I don't see them even playing it with Bloodbraid getting hosed by it. I guess other control decks could drop it and try and protect it but some lists are already on 2-4 Field of Ruin that is harder to deal with since we can't use Repeal or counter them.

    I don't even counter Blood Moons anymore unless I'm just using a Remand to draw a card or my only blue source in play is non-basic. I'll just let them waste the turn playing it, end step draw/filter some cards and then Repeal it when I have tron in place. I think the same thing will happen with Damping Sphere.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Raymond Perez Jr (RayFuturePro) just keeps cranking out 5-0 lists for us to look at.

    The lack of Chalice is very surprising since I feel like it helps in the Burn matchup, but it looks like he went with Sun Droplet and a Talisman of Progress for an additional counter on EE (something I see Shok do every once in a while). Sun Droplet seems so underwhelming...has anybody tried that out lately?

    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Quote from bradstone »
    Tried out Jace, The Mind Sculptor the other night and it felt really bad like I thought it would. Didn't have any synergy with out primary card draw thirst for knowledge and on top that we don't really play the bodies needed to put in front him like a nice goyf

    Yeah I ran him in a few friendlies and a few small paper events as a 1-of. Don't think I ever got 4mana of value out of him before he ate the dust. By the time I could cast him with protection I had faster wincons to fetch out or sitting in hand. He's a scary card when he gets going but I am shelving him in U Tron.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Despite mediocre results online (50% winrate in friendly leagues) I wanted to try out the Eldrazi heavy list in paper at FNM (

    4-1 Overall.
    W 2-0 vs. 8-Rack
    W 2-0 vs. Abzan Rites
    L 1-2 vs. Amulet Titan
    W 2-0 vs. RG Ponza
    W 2-1 vs. UB Mill

    Happy with the store credit but the matchups weren't the Tier 1 stuff I am used to seeing at my LGS so I'm not taking much out of it. (5-rounds with ~40 players every week, about half on tier 1 decks). Was hoping to see how it does against problem matchups (Affinity/Burn/Humans). I will say having Ulamog as something to do with all that mana feels fantastic and the ability to hit turn 4 tron with an Island, play a TKS for disruption/clock and hold up a counter is great. I didn't hit any aggro but I imagine this list still gets pooped on by all-in aggro since there are no EE in the 75.

    As a side note I have never played against Amulet Titan before. We started game 3 on turns so I figured "oh cool, guess we'll just draw" and then he killed me on turn 3 with the whole store watching haha. I did a massive disservice to U Tron! I cast Cyclonic Rift t2 on his mana ramper snake dude when I could have just held it and bounced his lethal Primeval Titan.

    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Quote from Meddling_Maxe »
    Quote from Jhernor »
    Went 4-0 last night at LGS; happened with the jap list. Keeping on testing.

    Nice to see others getting sweet results in "new" meta.

    Could u please give me a short libk or decklist for ur "jap list"?

    Couldnt find something.

    Likely talking about this one ---
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Quote from Mtgthewary »
    Topkyle Turn 3 Wurm is nothing? ore fast ugin..o stone? Dont underestimate tron in u tron. We dont need it like gx tron...but it is important too. Another example was overal better hands. We have maybe 70% Chance getinng blue starthand, with powder maybe 85% if you dont Like tron fast? So we can try cheaper spells like opt together powder. I dont say put only powder in, but maybe brew something radical new

    If we wanna go crazy and do something weird like that (admittedly awesome) Eternal Scourge Eldrazi deck then sure, sounds fun. Looking at the last league I just ran though I was 3-2 with my losses coming to Affinity and Merfolk. Turn 3 Tron into Wurmcoil does nothing to save me. In fact I kept a bomb hand with a turn 4 Ugin and some countermagic (g1, not knowing I was against Affinity) and got thoroughly crushed. The merfolk player knew what was up and kept in multiple Vapor Snags. Turn 3 Wurmcoil just isn't Karn and the more leagues I run the more I realize this. It would be absolutely fantastic against Burn but unlike some people I haven't felt that to be a hard matchup. My absolute worst matchups though are Affinity/Merfolk/Humans and what I really need is a turn 3 O-Stone/Ugin which is impossible without Talisman.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Yes but I’m not interested in “Titan WRECKED Grixis”, I want some info on the matchup right now. Grixis packs four Field of Ruins and several hard counterspells, plus Kolaghan’s and Snappies and Jace. When you’re able to cast and RESOLVE a Titan, nowdays is often too late. I think too many of us are underestimating the matchup against those next gen Control decklists.

    Just faced my first Grixis Control list. Snapcaster, Lili, Kolaghan's, Ancestral Visions, DREADBORE (ouch). Was very rough but I pulled a 2-1 win. In game 3 after being crushed by card draw I set Chalice=0 after a turn 1 Ancestral Visions figuring I could keep Kolaghan's off of it later. That worked out well and it stayed there all game but the game was still so grindy. They do have all the answers and 4 Snapcaster's to keep them coming. At one point I had a Jace and Ugin out at the same time and he still managed to remove both of them with flash in Snapcaster -> Dreadbore in response to my Jace trigger, I honestly don't know how I misplayed the whole situation but I must have.

    Short of setting Chalice to all of 0, 1, maybe 3 it's hard to answer. That sideboard is nasty to us and half of ours needs to be at least half anti-aggro so not sure how to shore up the matchup.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Quote from Mtgthewary »
    Serum powder seems funny. Someone should test it, i have no time to do this. Draw again for natural Thron or better starting Hand.. manaramp later

    We do nothing with natural tron on turn 3 except Platinum Angel or Wurmcoil with no blue mana for protection. I'm willing to test out a lot of options (especially spicy artifacts) but Serum Powder is a non-starter for me.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    But are you really having no issues at all against UW with Jace or Grixis? I found Jeskai a good matchup, but Grixis is a nightmare nowdays. I still have to test vs UW after bans.

    I haven't had a single match against Grixis in 12 leagues so I'm not really sure how the matchup goes. Most common matchups are Jund, RG Ponza and UR Pyro. Every other deck I have faced is a one or two-of. UW Control with Jace just doesn't have a way to get underneath us and they still rely on Colonnade beats (I run 1 Tec Edge, 2 Field of Ruin in the 75) or silly stuff like Entreat or Jace which I am always holding counters up for.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    I have been running Agnara's latest list for the last 2 days. I am back to 100% winrate vs midrange. Instead I am getting kicked in by these UR Moon/Pyro decks. I know they're not but you'd swear they're all running 4x Ceremonious / 4x Dispel in the sideboard. It's harder than UW/Jeskai because not only can they try and sneak in a Blood Moon (maindeck mind you) but they win off incremental value with Pyromancer. Even if you Chalice on 1 to shut off cantrips and sideboard counterspells you have to answer it ASAP. Chalice on 2 doesn't help much. Is Chalice even good here? I keep trying it and it might be a mistake. It's hard to board against them because I want to bring in Dismembers/Spatials but where do the cuts come? Walking Ballista is good if you can get it under them, but he's hard to protect in that matchup.

    Long story short: UW/Jeskai = ezpz gg. UR Pyro/Breach/Moon = aggravating.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    I haven't parsed out matchup data or anything yet, but I just finished my 6th league with "the Japanese list". The only cards changed between leagues were the 2x Batterskull. Tried out Nimble Obstructionist and more Chalices in the slot. After starting out hot @ 8-2 I went on a massive losing streak to finish 14-16 in matches. This is quite a bit worse than I usually do with the stock list, but it could be because I am just inexperienced with it.

    The "feeling" is that 4x TKS, 4x Wurmcoil and 2x Ulamog in the main is super clunky. This list does not power them out like E Tron and stumbling into natural Tron just to cast a Wurmcoil feels like crap. I faced GR Ponza 6 times and had to put a Wastes in the list because TKS was constantly stuck in my hand after a Blood Moon. My overall winrate vs Ponza was still 5-1 but it was annoying.

    Oddly enough (I am not used to this one...) I was absolutely crushed by this new Jund with Bloodbraid. I faced it 4 times and went 1-3 in matches.

    I'm gonna take a break on that style of list and try out something closer to Agnara's.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    I am one of the conservative guys who doesn't like to deviate too much from Shok's 75 so I am trying to get out of my comfort zone and try something different...I started some friendly leagues with "the Japanese list" exactly as posted. I plan to keep going until I am not rolling free leagues or I get bored. Currently 4-1, 4-1 (8-2 total) with the stock list, but my matchups have not been really tier 1 so it doesn't mean much to me yet. I am compiling matchup results results in excel and will share when I am done (with screenshots...I don't think it's 100% necessary but it is nice to have some transparency about results) if anyone is interested in the deck going that direction.

    So far the only things I have concluded: #1: I miss playing with TKS. Almost all of my games have been won on his back. Something E-Tron doesn't get to do is repeal/Cyclonic a problem permanent and TKS it into exile. Both of my losses have come against Blood Moon keeping me off colorless and unable to cast him. Maybe a mana rock is needed still? #2: Batterskull feels useless. The list already plays 4 Wurmcoil and I'd rather just replace them in the side with more Chalices or something.
    Posted in: Control
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