MTG Salvation

Wow didn't realise hexdrinkers price had shot up that much.

Your list still needs another 1 drop as a 2 of. With narnams and hexdrinkers out of viable budget range then either Kessig Prowler or pelt collector are your next best bets.

Personally I'm running 2 mb scooze ATM because of the amount of lurrus and unearth decks in the meta. But there an argument that it's no needed. And barkhind troll is a solid alternative.

For the 3 drops you've gone pretty top heavy (as far as curve is concerned) I'd personal go for a combo of 3 steel leaf champions and 2 Old-Growth Troll.
Old-Growth Troll took me by surprise but between the native trample for getting over defending faties and being another solid card to have on the field against a boardwipe. He's been over performing

For removal you want a combo of savage swipe and dismember. (Swipes better against burn and d&t decks and dismember is better against shadow and kroxa)

That said if you are facing alot of kroxa and shadow your best bet is still rhonas as he just stone walls anything without temur battlerage

Land base is complicated and very budget dependant

Ideally you want a small white splash for the SB. But the most optimal for budget is probably

3 g/b horizon land
1 treetop Village
2 Haspeth oasis
15 forests

(I personally still like a 21 land 39 other stuff split and this has become less painful with affordable horizon lands) and you don't want to many pain lands with the amount of burn style play currently in the meta

Snakeskin Veil is the new pump spell on the block but as it is I've not been impressed yet.

I would consider dropping to 2 rancors cutting some vines for defenses and and maybe droping 1 aspect. I've been running extra removal in the form of savage swipe in this slot as I dose act life a pump spell a significant amount of the time.

Inscription of Abundance is interesting hand I feel holds alot of promise for when the meta shifts back. It's soild untility card thats kicker is usable. I feel like it's a much better card against midrage than agro and as the meta is particularly fast ATM it's not it's time to shine.

Quote from BogatyrOfMurom »

I play Commander a lot and used to compete in tournaments locally but today I do not play in tournaments anymore. I was having issues when it comes to the events. Control decks are a big problem in the Maltese community and they are very dominant compared to aggro, tribal and other decks. Playing against a control deck to infuriating for a casual player such as myself and that is why I quit competiting in tournaments and instead I prefer to play casually at home or at my local community against decks are not control. Control decks make the game very unfair and the commander committee must reevaluate all blue cards and start banning those OP formats as the format is completely broken thanks to blue.

um im a little confused... you seem to be having a rant about blue based control in edh.... this is a budget modern thread....about combo decks.... with no blue... and its a necro thread from 5 years ago....

Thanks for the all the info, I've used some of what you've written to update my lists. (I still haven't tryed out troll yet)

This only thing I disagree with in your comments is the lack of fetches/ narnams I find the narnams insane value and the deck thinning is particularly useful (also 22 lands seems quite high for what is becoming a more resistant zoo deck, iv personaly droped to 20 to help keep the agressivnes of the deck).

But I'll have a play without them as it's been a while since I ran all basics.

Quote from Dosequiguy »

No point in trying to brew with Altar when the Vengevine Altar shell is already tier 1. The card has already been solved.

Your right if it's in a teir 1 deck there no other way to use the card effectively, I suppose we should also better ditch those fetchlands, surgical and and thoughtsizes then ow well :/

On another note (and the reason a came hear) I got milled yesterday buy a janky build splashing green for Voracious Wurm after casting a Crypt Incursion, the sacing to alter without passing priority, I have no idea what else he was running (as I was discarded, milled then this turn 5 both games) it seemed pretty interesting so I thought I'd share.

thought this may interest you

after a fair bit of play testing the best version of the deck that i can come up with is


hexdrinker is constantly over performing and i've even had him in progenatus mode a couple of time(something i honestly was not expecting to happen in modern) and the second almost hexproof mode was fairly common and loam lion is able to get eone to 3 with a fair bit more consistency. turn one eone turn 2 drinker and a narnam into a turn 3 lvl 3 hexdrinker has been surprisingly consistent and extremely powerful. no turn three kills yet but a very consistent turn 4 kills are happening. and the deck grinds surprisingly well as 10 of the mb creatures are basically hatebears against some of the stronger decks in the format and we now have a true and big payoff mana sink.

a leveled hexdrinker is hit by maelstrom pulse, dreadbore, "destroy" based board wipes, sac effects where its the only target. and not much else in the format touches it.

i'm a little tempted to add selfless spirit to the mb, but i'm not sure it's needed.

i have to say this change really really annoys me, as i've been working to bling out the deck with promos (as all the creatures except avatar and narnams have nice alt arts promos) and i've just got rhonas masterpieces and now i have to drop him and the steel leafs and buy and hope that the hexdrinker foils dont curl to much ;/

anyway yeah hexdrinker is bonkers and worth running 4 of (i expect it will be the 3rd 4 of one drop for the more traditional mono g fetchless stompy)

this is going to be a long one, please forgive the spelling and grammar as im dyslexic and wont catch all the errores

form my limited play testing of Savage Swipe
the down side to true fight spells is that your creature almost always dies with it hence the use of natures way and dismember for so long, the big difference with swipe is the pump aspect on the card. this means that when your eone, narnam scooze or what ever fights your now have a much bigger buffer of defence (this is one of the reasons dromoka's command is so good, it pumps then it fights) providing a 3 or 4 (or in narnams case 5) defence means that you take out thalia, goblin guild, spell queller sized creatures without that loss of your own creature. it also increase the number of possible targets for a fight spell in your side of the field, (you would very rarly target militant, scooze or a 2/2 eone with fight spell as this meant loosing your creature as well). i would also point out a one drop spell makes evey creature in our deck able to take out thing in ice and thought knot seer wich are two of the biggest problems stompy as deck faces in the current meta. it also dose not cost life, and in burn and phoenix matchups the life loss form dismember is a huge handicap to winning these games.
the main advantage of this spell over prey upon or titanic brawl is that its almost a split card. it has two purposes and it fills both roles well (if imperfectly)
lastly i will concede that the big downside to this spell is soc speed, but the added pump on a creature is (in my opinion) significant enough to justify its inclusion (or at least further testing) in the mono green variant.

vines vs blossom,
i've written about the historical advantages of vines before and in the current meta they are still irrelevent (for now), so i will ignore them.
over the last 3 or so year the meta has got faster and faster. we need to be in the 16 damage by turn 4 (20 life minus a 2 fetches and a shock) to realistically get lethal. to do that effectively we need to be playing as much creatures as quickly as possible on our first 3 turns and alot of the time we will have only singular mana to work with
now the difference between the two is this
1 mana vines
hexproof
1 mana blossom
hexproof +2/+2

2 mana vines
hexproof +4/+4
2 mana blossom
hexproof +2/+2 and 1 spare mana

the one mana mode happens often enough that the variance and to be an issue

stuck one one land
blossom is supreare

2 lands, a lot of the time we want to be playing a creature, but we also don't what to loose our first to bolt or push presuming all one dops are 2 power (if eone is turn one play then defence is auto better due to the evolve trigger the second 1 drop nets him)
and that on turn three we are still stuck on 2 lands and we play a two drop
t2 t3 t4 total board state from first 2 turns
V+k 6 2 2 8 1 1drops
V-k 2 4 4 6 2 1drops
B 4 4 4 8 2 1drops

both defence and vines + kicker = 8 damage, and both vine - kicker and defence have a bigger broad presence, so in this case defence is slightly superior to maintain maximum aggression.



three mana
so turn one, onedrop turn 2 two drop (or 2 1drops)

turn three, we have a two drop in hand
it is better to play avatar and strangleroot before combat avatar for maximising the counter it gets and strangleroot for the haste.
B in this case you can attack in without worry and play the two drop. (or another 2 one drops)
V hear you have to hold up the mana attack in and potentially loose some board presents for the advantage of dealing extra damage and if you do not have another one drop in hand you lose the potential to lay a creatures this turn.


pump size
the other reason to play a pump spell is as a way of killing blocker or attackers(but this should be rare) against humans, spirits and phoenix defence serves as well as vines, now against hollow one, thoughtknot seer, gurmag angler and tasugare vines is superior due to the our creature surviving and there's not.

so meta share time (considering and approaching this from the view pint of a competitive meta (im going to use mtg top 8, yes there are other options but this is a particularly good one fro focusing on future competitive metas (as people tend to play the stuff that wins and places)

now in order of most played
Snapcaster Mage B
Walking Ballista (n/a our stuffs going to die no matter what)
Noble Hierarch (n/a dork)
Arclight Phoenix B (this will never defend, avatar is the only posible blocker, and with 2 defence defence will sufice)
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben B
Thing in the Ice B (if it flips we die anyway so this is only on offensive)
Phantasmal Image(N/A)
Celestial Colonnade V
Scavenging Ooze B (we are presuming early game as if scooze gets large we die anyway)
Reflector Mage B
Champion of the Parish Tie
Thalia's Lieutenant B
Wurmcoil Engine V (most of the time we die and killing it is worse that leaving it alive and dealing as much damage past it as possible to this but if we swig in 4 damage is better at offsetting the life gain that 2)
Crackling Drake B (defence kills it and they can esily make this big enough for the extra 2 from vines not to matter 99% of the time)
Kitesail Freebooter B
Mantis Rider V
Meddling Mage B
Tarmogoyf V
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger N/A
Vendilion Clique V (less lily to matter as will always attack and we will always almost trade)
Bloodghast B
Dark Confidant B
Tireless Tracker v
Primeval Titan v (but like wurm were already dead)
Monastery Swiftspear B
Death's Shadow V (this is the only time currently in modern where vines "target opponents stuff" abily is relevant)
Narcomoeba B
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet V (but again we dead)
Goblin Guide B
Prized Amalgam V (but if we didn't scooze it were probably dead)

looking at this a very clear picture come into being when the game is winnable blossom is better
when we are really struggling and our opponent has stopped just shore of winning vines is better, but in all but three case where vines is better aspect would be better again.

so in conclusion
if you are in the early game and trying to deal maximum damage as early as possible blossom is your spell. if your are on a low land count ( or running multiple copies of horizon canopy) blossom is your friend.
if your expect the game to go longer, have a higher curve (like the historically 8 1drops 10 2drops 7-8 3drops then vines is better)

vines is also better if you are facing, deathshadow (just) infect(alot) and if twin ever gets unbanned (alot)

(note bogles matchups B is better as even though you can target dryad arbour and the kor with aspect to fizzle stuff your are going to need to race to win, and enchemnt hate is vastly more effective that hoping they target the 3 permanents in there deck that you can use the double sided hexproof on. this also holds true for affinity (arcbound ravager and plating)


ok scooze
(ill keep this bit a little shorter)
basically with phoenix decks, dredge, neoform/reanimatore taking increasingly bigger chunks of the meta, scooze is more relevant more often (between the life gain and gy hate) yes its slower that normal gy hate but having it mb and 4 mb millanats makes these matchups slightly more winnable. this will flip back if spirits or coco decks become more popular again.

hope this answers your questions, if you need anything clarifying feel free to ask (i know that this a lot of marginally coherent information at best)

without targeted discard ir kill spells goyf doesnt far very well (hes been tried alot and is normally a 1/2 or 2/3) he also has only 1 devotion and no native abilities or counter synergy. millantant on the other hand is a one mana layline for spell slinger decks, which can straight up win games against dredge, phoenix, hollow one and storm. it also dose a lot of work against deathshadow w/u control, fairies and b/w smallpox.
so personally i would keep the dryad, the place i would cut would be rhonas (less good in the current meta) and maybe a avatar or a pump spell.

this would give us
14 one drop
7-8 2 drops
4 three drops

which is the ideal curve the decks wanted for a long time. (and only not had due to the awful state of one drops available to us)


i agree that the lvl 6 progenitus is going to be very rare, but the lvl 3 almost hexproof seems a lot more doable and consistent. if the snake dose well i might have to push back up the number of rancors in the deck as its the only pump that can reach it once its lvl 3. (i would also point out that if the snake becomes a 3-4 of in the deck it may make pelt collector a stronger choice than eone due to the die trigger as i fell that once this thing starts to get big your opponent is going to make it priority 1 as they will not be able to aford to deal with a 6/6 progenatus )

despite the electro build be solid i acherly feel like the old cascade build is better position in the meta. as a reliable turn 3 balance is really hard for a lot of decks to come back from. (admittedly burn and phoenix are still very very SB dependant) but deathshadow, jund, hollow one, titan shift and tron dredge are not bad matchups.
i will say spirits is a slog to win, but very win able, the games just tend to go long due to mausoleum wanderer.
a good part of the cascade build advantage is that it now has relevant early game removal, between dead//gone, Response // Resurgence, Depose // Deploy, Warrant // Warden and dismember (there also Cut // Ribbons as a major reason to run black) the deck has a reasonable amount of removal for the early game also Gideon of the Trials is normally a 3 mana time walk as all aggro and midrange decks take a turn off to deal with him (hes also a solid wincon)

(and not going to lie i'm really hoping for a fire//ice reprint in modern horizons as that then becomes the decks best removal option.

i'm also convinced there a cascade shell that uses theater of horrors and ill gotten inheritance as a "not draw" engine and life dran wincon to be tried.
there also probably a treasure based deck shell for a cascade and electro balance build as well.

i've not tried karn yet but he on my radar for trying with a antiquities war build.

i second
Kytheon, Hero of Akros

id also add both
Anafenza, the Foremost
Gaddock Teeg
to the abzan list, having mb aggressive hatebears never hurts

Rhonas the Indomitable is a wincon so long as you have another creature ( he also stomps hard on deathshadow decks)

would help smooth out the curve into a more aggro plan
Hope of Ghirapur
Rhys the Redeemed
Isamaru, Hound of Konda

are all solid one drop

Reki, the History of Kamigawa, as a draw engine
Saffi Eriksdotter as a protection
and Shanna, Sisay's Legacy and day of destiny acts as another payoff


having both anafenza and Melira, Sylvok Outcast in a deck allows you to effectively also run a counter combo plan

Thalia's Lancers is also a decent tutor if you have some ramp

just slapping a rancor on Syr faren is free +4/+4 to someone else each turn. Assuming Syr Faren is not killed by removal or by blockers.

already put two of this guy on my scg cart. Needs to be tested.

I put it in bold somewhere at the top of the primer, and like you said as well: do not suggest 4 drops. It's as simple as that. It has to single handedly win us the game on the spot if we want to run it, or it'd be a sideboard card that wrecks specific decks. Only two cards have really made it into the sideboard: Thrun, the Last Troll against Control, and Creeping Corrosion against Affinity (and not even everyone runs those). Other than that, 4 drops are just not for us.

I almost feel like I need a rubber stamp for the “Does it cost more than 3? Then it doesn’t belong in our ~20 land nonramping blitzkrieg aggro deck”. The song remains the same every single time.

You missed the most important part of the card. ITS A LEGENDARY BEAR! We can do bear tribal in commander now All 16 of the green bears (so many 2/2s for 2) plus the 5 or so cards that make bear tokens (no Bear's Companion unfortunately.)

BIRD HAT

Wait until crucible of Worlds or it's creature equivalent is added to that.

The Mogg Maniac cheered on the incoming meteor. It was his time to shine.