I think I would try both with and without scapeshift. I have been toying with UG and doing a ramp/fog style deck using azcanta to find the spells, fog not to die, and even trying nexus as a loop extra turn since we are ramping
I haven't figured out if the best route is mono green, add red, or white. This is where I leave it up to the collective for advice.
Red offers some solid removal in keeping us alive long enough to "combo". What is the combo?
Stage 1 & 2 will self mill and get back a single creature (if any). There is very few creatures in the RG version but it's stage 3 we want to abuse. If we can fire off a Scapeshift the turn prior to stage 3 we can get back all our lands and cast a Sylvan Awakening for hopefully lethal.
Sylvan can be used defensively since the lands are indestructible and have reach.
Agro seems like it might be a problem. Thoughts on using Thorn Lieutenant as a defensive creature that can block early game, trade with most things, and leaves a little man if they kill it with a spell. Is Thran too cute? Trying to value with Reclamation Sage on a Stage 1-2 Thran with Crucible out too much or worth trying? Does this deck even need Llanowar?
I'll be putting together these decks and working on them. I hope to have a working arch-type by GP Los Angeles.
Thanks
Side Note: Although a lot of mana, you can Awaken with Thran and one side Armageddon them.
Sure they both net 2 mana in a vacuum but with storm decks they tend to not "go off" without the baral/goblin reducer in play. So my spell is 1 for 3 whereas your spell would be 3 for 6 or possibly 2 for 6 if they have 2 in play.
Given the example of turn 2 Goblin Electromancer turn 3 your spell (net 3 mana) it spirals out of control quick. My spell can't be used until turn 4 regards of the set up. So yes yours is busted when in combination of any reducer.
What makes the spell clunky? Remembering what turn it is?
True, but it wouldn't apply to this card because it was designed exactly to avoid that issue. The funny thing is that Seething Song was supposed to do the exact same thing for Dark Ritual - move it from an "unfair" turn 1 play to a "fair" turn 3 play. Now they've just decided that turn 3 is too early. Thus the card should be
Turn 4 Ritual3R
Sorcery (U)
Add RRRRRR to your mana pool.
Note the difference in text length and complexity. All this spell does is explore the same "one turn later" drawback in a clunky way that circumvents normal costing for "the same effect." Contrast this with serra avenger, which gives you 2WW (arguably) worth of creature for WW... with a rather unique drawback.
Except it doesn't...turn 2 goblin/baral turn 3 manamorph into this ... assuming no land drop that gives you 6 mana to your pool off the 1 card...seems bonkers no?
Well, Wizards flat out lied about having better answers starting with this set as far as I can tell. I'm glad to see that Bolas is cool, and I want a foil HoD,but that doesn't change them being liars, and I hope this set sells like Homelands.I usually do a few drafts, that will not be the case with this set. I will buy my couple busted threat singles and be done
Lies about what?
Hour of Revelation takes care of everything including PW
An entire list of cards to help with graveyards (answers to zombies and potential other decks) Nimble Obstructionist seems solid and an answer to many annoying triggers.
You don't think Supreme Will will be a card that shows up? Mana Leak / Impulse seems good to me. Abrade seems stupid good. Kill a Heart of Kiran or take out a creature...not sure how that's not an answer.
Of course the namesake Hour of Devastation ... not an answer?
While not an exact answer but Ramunap Hydra can be bigger than pretty much any threat including Kiran and with the vigilance lets them play defensively and aggressively against zombies.
I mean seems like there's plenty here to help shake standard up. For a non-rotating set, I think this will create more decks than most.
Edit: And, actually, you don't even need a lifegain engine. Since you can't put age counters on Glacial Chasm, there'll be zero on it when it the cumulative upkeep trigger check how much you pay. So you'll pay zero life.
It was mostly a joke because it's just so stupid but yes you're right never have to pay life assuming you get the enchantment down first
Card has great flavor, but requires tons of mana to be effective. I wouldn't play it in any format because of the huge mana investment it requires. Also, people praising it for EDH should remember that lands are more vulnerable in the format and tend to be destroyed relatively often, leaving your creatures forever roaming the barren sands of exile.
If that 1 drop had prowess I would totally play that.
If Eternalize wasnt so painfully overcosted, I'd be on board.
Why is it "overcosted"? Sure you're paying 5/6 mana for a 4/4 (usually with an ability), but in limited you force your opp. to have answers for both. This 3 drop can hit for 3 or trade early and later become a potential 7 dmg attacker. If you build a sealed or draft deck around this you can force a lot of 2 for 1s.
Why are these rare?! God...It couldn't cost one more and say "enters the battlefield or attacks?"
I find it humorous that this is a response to a 2 drop with the ability to give another creature +2/2 by simply being cast and another +4/4 while being a 4/4 body later (post removal) as bad since it's not "attacks" too or as the other guy suggested trample or haste...
Magic doesn't always need to be stronger and better than the previous set or cards to be fun or played. If you constantly increase power you will end up with a game that's unplayable.
I remember arguments about reprinting Savannah Lions and people saying never White Weenie would be too powerful. Than they printed a 2/2 with the drawback of being legendary. Than the once famous rare became an uncommon and now we print 2/1's with abilities because they were "good" enough.
Similarly when they printed a 3/3 for 2 manna people lost their minds with Watchwolf. Didn't take too much longer before we needed 3 power creatures with abilities to be considered playable.
In a format where you can go T1 2/1 into this swing for 4 and later swing for 6+ while making a 4/4 is somehow bad? Not good? Unplayable?
What do people want from WotC? Goyf creature in every set? Would this be playable as a 3/3 for GG? Would that make you happy? Perhaps a 3/2 with trample? I mean at what point do you say "okay that's enough".
Before you know it we're going to have to make a rule change on life totals because 20 isn't enough time to play a game of magic as too many games are done before turn 5 now of days. Kind of sad if you ask me.
Unlike modern, there is no instant kill. Or is there?
Welcome to the party Sylvan Awakening and The Mending of Dominaria
I haven't figured out if the best route is mono green, add red, or white. This is where I leave it up to the collective for advice.
Red offers some solid removal in keeping us alive long enough to "combo". What is the combo?
Stage 1 & 2 will self mill and get back a single creature (if any). There is very few creatures in the RG version but it's stage 3 we want to abuse. If we can fire off a Scapeshift the turn prior to stage 3 we can get back all our lands and cast a Sylvan Awakening for hopefully lethal.
Sylvan can be used defensively since the lands are indestructible and have reach.
4 Abrade
2 Sweltering Suns
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Sylvan Awakening
3 Scapeshift
3 Hour of Promise
3 The Mending of Dominaria
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Elvish Rejuvenator
2 Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar
4 Sheltered Thicket
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Field of Ruin
1 Arch of Orazca
3 Hashep Oasis
6 Mountain
3 Forest
I am not sure but I'd like to try Field of Ruin and cycle lands with Crucible of Worlds
Than there's white. It offers a couple of things Fall of the Thran, Seal Away, and Aven Mindcensor + Field + Crucible. Not sure if that's too cute.
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Elvish Rejuvenator
3 Ramunap Excavator
3 Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar
3 Seal Away
3 Sylvan Awakening
4 Scapeshift
3 The Mending of Dominaria
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Scattered Groves
4 Sunpetal Grove
8 Forest
1 Plains
4 Desert of the Indomitable
Are fogs needed? Multani seems strong.
4 Thorn Lieutenant
4 Elvish Rejuvenator
3 Reclamation Sage
4 Seal Away
2 Sylvan Awakening
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Settle the Wreckage
3 Scapeshift
2 Fumigate
3 The Mending of Dominaria
2 Fall of the Thran
4 Scattered Groves
4 Sunpetal Grove
7 Forest
7 Plains
Agro seems like it might be a problem. Thoughts on using Thorn Lieutenant as a defensive creature that can block early game, trade with most things, and leaves a little man if they kill it with a spell. Is Thran too cute? Trying to value with Reclamation Sage on a Stage 1-2 Thran with Crucible out too much or worth trying? Does this deck even need Llanowar?
I'll be putting together these decks and working on them. I hope to have a working arch-type by GP Los Angeles.
Thanks
Side Note: Although a lot of mana, you can Awaken with Thran and one side Armageddon them.
Given the example of turn 2 Goblin Electromancer turn 3 your spell (net 3 mana) it spirals out of control quick. My spell can't be used until turn 4 regards of the set up. So yes yours is busted when in combination of any reducer.
What makes the spell clunky? Remembering what turn it is?
Except it doesn't...turn 2 goblin/baral turn 3 manamorph into this ... assuming no land drop that gives you 6 mana to your pool off the 1 card...seems bonkers no?
Ritual of Chaos R
Instant -
You can't cast Ritual of Chaos during the first, second, or third turn of the game.
Add RRR to your mana pool.
Lies about what?
Hour of Revelation takes care of everything including PW
An entire list of cards to help with graveyards (answers to zombies and potential other decks)
Nimble Obstructionist seems solid and an answer to many annoying triggers.
You don't think Supreme Will will be a card that shows up? Mana Leak / Impulse seems good to me.
Abrade seems stupid good. Kill a Heart of Kiran or take out a creature...not sure how that's not an answer.
Of course the namesake Hour of Devastation ... not an answer?
While not an exact answer but Ramunap Hydra can be bigger than pretty much any threat including Kiran and with the vigilance lets them play defensively and aggressively against zombies.
I mean seems like there's plenty here to help shake standard up. For a non-rotating set, I think this will create more decks than most.
It was mostly a joke because it's just so stupid but yes you're right never have to pay life assuming you get the enchantment down first
Fountain of Youth + Rings of Brighthearth + Solemnity + Glacial Chasm = 0 damage for the rest of the game for 4 mana
Which is why you play Teferi's Response or Terra Eternal
Why is it "overcosted"? Sure you're paying 5/6 mana for a 4/4 (usually with an ability), but in limited you force your opp. to have answers for both. This 3 drop can hit for 3 or trade early and later become a potential 7 dmg attacker. If you build a sealed or draft deck around this you can force a lot of 2 for 1s.
I find it humorous that this is a response to a 2 drop with the ability to give another creature +2/2 by simply being cast and another +4/4 while being a 4/4 body later (post removal) as bad since it's not "attacks" too or as the other guy suggested trample or haste...
Magic doesn't always need to be stronger and better than the previous set or cards to be fun or played. If you constantly increase power you will end up with a game that's unplayable.
I remember arguments about reprinting Savannah Lions and people saying never White Weenie would be too powerful. Than they printed a 2/2 with the drawback of being legendary. Than the once famous rare became an uncommon and now we print 2/1's with abilities because they were "good" enough.
Similarly when they printed a 3/3 for 2 manna people lost their minds with Watchwolf. Didn't take too much longer before we needed 3 power creatures with abilities to be considered playable.
In a format where you can go T1 2/1 into this swing for 4 and later swing for 6+ while making a 4/4 is somehow bad? Not good? Unplayable?
What do people want from WotC? Goyf creature in every set? Would this be playable as a 3/3 for GG? Would that make you happy? Perhaps a 3/2 with trample? I mean at what point do you say "okay that's enough".
Before you know it we're going to have to make a rule change on life totals because 20 isn't enough time to play a game of magic as too many games are done before turn 5 now of days. Kind of sad if you ask me.