MTG Salvation

I can agree with you on the fringe deck one.

I think the reason it does not happen is pure budget one. It is a significant cost to invest in legacy and one does not want to buy in into a fringe deck. Hell people very often don't want to change deck when it's not good in meta because they can not/don't want to build another one.

I would love cards to be much more accessible and a format where you can brew deck affordably, but yeah...

Have you guys seen this thread on Reddit
There's really nice analysis of the metagame and really interesting discussion on what to ban.

To summarize:

Quote from "people on reddit »

• grixis delver outperforms next 3 top decks combined and it's concerning
• DRS actually has a positive impact on the format because it allows creating diversity
• Probe is a problem because:
• Young Pyromancer interaction
• Cabal Therapy interaction
• 100% information
- Free card draw

• TNN is a problem because:
• no reasonable interaction
• no real downsides to it
• gives free wins against difficult matchups

I would really like to see one of the two go. I don't think the format needs a shakeup of DRS ban, but I do think that Grixis Delver warrants nerfing, and I say that as Grixis Delver player.

Another question (sorry for the double post but I think it warrants it).

By now probably everyone has read the lantern guide that was posted on Twitter. What do you guys think about this:

The discard is present to create a hole for the library lock and to beat hate, but if you don’t have enough actual permanents you are very vulnerable to losing to how individually weak many of your cards are. The easiest way to beat Lantern is to defeat it in detail, isolating those elements from each other which don’t do anything alone. This is also the reason why Collective Brutality, while good on paper, tends to underperform.

I'm relatively new to the whir version (I played straight G/B for a long while), and my impression was that this deck can have a problem with emptying hand quickly (imagine being stuck with multiple whirs and/or orb + leylines post board) and brutality seems like a way to circumvent that. Is this an issue one should mitigate with more careful mulligan decisions + better draw control/filtering? What does community think?

It does not enter tapped, which can matter if you want to play something expensive on T4

Plus it still enables T1 discard and does not prevent from T2-T3 whir

Quote from zcowan »

Hey guys! Quick question, how many of you are running Ghirapur as a win condition? I have been playing it as a one of in the mainboard for a few months now and I have to say that it is consistently underperforming for me.. I mean there have been several matches where things worked out and it was quicker to kill them with that then by mill, but I don't like that it can't be tutored for and that in your opening hand it is almost a dead card..

I also don't know what would be a considerable replacement.. I was thinking of just adding a third collective company in it's place since it has so much utility in it's modes and it's discard outlet to get Ensnaring Bridge to 0. Ultimately, what I'm asking is: Is everyone here going entirely mill or how do you like to win with the deck? Is Pyrite Spellbomb still a thing? lol

Collective brutality + Codex shredder + Academy ruins already provide you with an alternative way to win. It's a bit mana ontensive, but you can drain them to death. The only upside of Grid is that it can ping creatures, but brutality can also deal with small creatures and big ones are handled by the bridge. I don't see any reason to play grid in lantern right now.

Hello everyone, it's been a while, but I'm back here. Looking to pick up the deck again, after trying different stuff for a while.
I've seen bunch of things changed like no more baubles or running leyelines main, what's the current starting point for customization?

Yeah, I'm looking forward to see the top 8 games, especially one against Tron.

Quote from crexalbo »

@averethel:

I prefer using Spellbomb because it requires less setup (five lands versus eleven), is fetchable with Stirrings/Fair, and cantrips. Then again, it takes up a slot in my 75, which Brutality doesn't do since it's in there anyway. I think this difference is due to the way we think about the alt-wincon. My primary plan is to use the lock to protect my Spellbomb loop. If i'm not mistaken, you treat the lock as your primary wincon, and just have Brutality backup in case of really grindy games like my Jeskai Harbinger game i described. Let me know if i misunderstand!

Yes, I think you're right about our view on the wincon. I haven't taken the deck to a big event (biggest tournament was around 50 players so far) and people I play in local tournaments learned to respect the deck. Some of the games even end up with opponent and me discussing his ways out and whether they have a reasonable chance to get there. Also we can run Brutality recursion with 6 lands (but draining every second turn). I don't like to rely on recursion too much, because in my metagame there's still decent amount of graveyard hate...

@crexalbo: I see your point and it's completely valid one. I don't know your current list, but I'd just like to point out we already have a recursive 2 damage per turn "combo" (as long as Collective Brutality is in the deck). Sure it requires a lot more mana and turns off one of our Shredders, but with a hard lock in place that shouldn't be a problem.
So since it's already there my question is: do we really need another one? Maybe we can use this slot to improve a bad matchup?

Hello, fellow prison wardens. Long time lurker here, finally decided to write something.

I picked up the deck after playing against it in a side event when I was at the GP last December. I was pretty impressed with what the deck actually does, and since my other deck is affinity I though I can give it a go. Thaks to all of you for all the inspiration and testing reports that helped me start my adventure with Lantern.

By the way, I don't know how many of you follow Lanter SubReddit, but there was a very good article posted there recently. Very good read that also helped me tune my deck.

I've just returned from a GP trial (one of the last), where I made it to top 8. Here's tournament report.

Let's start with a decklist. I'm running speedy GB version with big disruption package. I've been through a Glint-Nest Crane phase, but I found it a bit unimpressive. I wanted to try Mechanized Production, but I have no idea what is cuttable from my sideboard. Here's the list:



We played 5 rounds, I went 3 - 1 - 1, with the draw being intentional. We still played for fun, so I post that game here as well.

Round 1: 4 color [card]Young Pyromancer[card] tokens deck - 2-1

• Game 1 (on the play): Turn 2 top lock, he taps on his turn 2 allowing me to play turn 3 bridge and I take it from there.
• Game 2 (on the draw): I mull to 6 and keep a 2 lander with bridge and leyline. But 3rd source comes too late, and drawing second bridge was very clunky.
• Game 3 (on the play): He mulligans to 6, scries to top. I start with shredder and mill a land. Turn 3 I fire stirrings of and get the bridge, play lantern and establish a top lock. Turn 3 inquisition reveals no counterspell, so turn 4 bridge takes over.

Round 2: Storm - 2 - 1

• Game 1 (on the draw): He mulls to 6, I go to 5. I managed to get turn 3 lock, and GQ + crucible denial followed soon after.
• Game 2 (on the draw): I kept a decent hand, but got hit by Shatterstorm turn 4 and did not have enough mana to get bridge fast enough to survive the swarm of goblin tokens.
• Game 3 (on the play): This is the game I should not have won. But here's what happened: I started with the leyeline, he goes off before I locked him out with the bridge ad swings with 8 tokens and electromancer. I establish the bridge lock and abrupt decay deals with Guttersnipe. But I only have 2 shredders and no lantern so I blindly mill him every turn hoping he will not hit Shatterstorm again. Meanwhile, he has two Electromancers, so it's looking pretty grim. He makes a misplay and fires of Past in Flames thinking there's Shatterstorm in his yard, but there's none. From about then, we're the only game so people gathered around and the judge is sitting next to me. At some time, later on, he goes off drawing a tonne of cards, resolving Chandra, generating 20 tokens and resolving a Shatterstorm. This is the point where the mistake happened. In response to that, I sacrificed Welding Jar to regenerate my Bridge. I forgot the wording on Shatterstorm, and my opponent was using old cards that had "bury" printed. Since neither him, nor judge, nor anyone from the audience protested against that I just did it. Still, in response, I sacrificed an Inventor's Fair to get a Codex Shredder. Then I draw Lantern, deployed top lock which revealed another Shatterstorm. I milled it as well, and my opponent just conceded, although with me being at 5 he had enough cards to burn me out with Chandra.
I only realised what happened after next round and apologised to the storm player, fortunately, he wasn't angry at me.

Round 3: Grixis Delver - 2 - 0

• Game 1 (on the draw): I start with land, Bauble, Lantern, Opal, Codex Shredder. Next turn I deploy two more Shredders and a Bell, and when Brutality deals with a single Delver and reveals no relevant cards in hand he concedes.
• Game 2 (on the draw): Early Bridge lock, but no lantern and only one millstone. He scoops after I fetch Crucible with Inventor's Fair

Round 4: Tron - 1 - 2

• Game 1 (on the play): He goes down to 5, and I find my both needles pretty early on. He conceded after I got GQ + Crucible online
• Game 2 (on the draw): He goes to 5, I go to 6. He hits Tron early and Ulamongs me. In retrospect, my hand wasn't good enough to keep. It was just OK, but we need excellent against Tron.
• Game 3 (on the play): Turn 2 GQ + Surgical tron land. But then I made a mistake of using a needle on Karn before Oblivion Stone, and he managed to get all his stones and a lot of mana ramp. In the end, he Ulamonged me.

Round 5: Goblin - ID, as 10 points was enough to get to top 8. 2 - 0 when playing for fun

• Game 1 (on the draw): He missed his 2nd land drop, and getting the bridge and fair online, and milling 3 bolts I got out of range of burn.
• Game 2 (on the draw): One of those turn 2 bridge games. He was flooded so I got enough time to establish a top lock.

Top 8 Game: I got paired with the same Tron player I lost to in round 4. I think he won the event afterwards. 1 - 2

• Game 1 (on the play): Mill and surgical tron land. I got the lock going, and he conceded after I got GQ + Crucible engine
• Game 2 (on the draw): I made a huge misplay here. Knowing he has a crucible in hand I used nature's claim on his expedition map to delay tron. Fortunately, he made a misplay too, firing of the relic when GQ was in his yard. But I lost academy ruins and it hurt a lot. He later exiled lantern with Karn, but I found needle just in time. Then he ulamonged me, but I redirected triggers to Spellskite. I milled with Bell, just to see my Bridge going away, how unlucky. I took one hit with Ulamong and conceded after not finding bridge,
• Game 3 (on the play): I kept quite a good hand with top lock, needles and surgical, but never got to 3 mana. By the time I hit 2nd land he resolved Ulamong hitting my Opal and a land. I conceded knowing he had Nature's Claim in hand and I never deploy bridge fast enough.

In retrospect, I like my list a lot. I think I will pass on the Spellbomb though and replace it either with 4th Needle or 3rd Spellskite.
It's really nice to have "recursive win condition", and people often concede to it when you explain to them how it works. On the other hand, I ended up boarding it out more often than not, and none of the today's games even hit the extra turns.

Another question is: how do we beat Tron post board? I found that my build has pretty decent game 1, but games 2 and 3 are really hard. They have 4 Nature's Claims in their sideboard and they have a lot of very useful cards already. How do you Sideboard? I usually do:

+ 2 Welding Jar
+ 2 Spellskite
+ 2 Surgical Extraction
+ 1 Seal of Primordium
+ 1 Nature's Claim
+ 1 Abrupt Decay

- 2 Mishra's Bauble
- 1 Welding Jar
- 1 Pyrite Spellbomb
- 4 Inquisition of Kozilek
- 2 Collective Brutality

Maybe I should leave the Baubles in and keep them for digging, take 1 or 2 Bells instead (Pyxis needs to stay as they're running Emrakul)?

I very much like how consistent the marvel version of the deck is. I think this is what I'm going to sleeve up for the game day:



Marvel Targets:

• I like 2 Ulamogs. It's possible to cast thanks to Nissa's Renewal, but that's still hard as hell. I don't like to see him in my opening hand at it is a potential target for Lost Legacy post board so I like to have alternatives.
• World Breaker with all the vehicles seems like a solid choice to get rid of something really annoying. Also can hit those Authority of the Consuls[/cars] or Stasis Snares, hard castable.
• Aetherwind Basker energy sink and a finisher. Nice with Whirler Virtuoso, hard castable.
• Ishkanah, Grafwidow good to get some crowd on board but since delirium is not that easy I opted for just one.

Support:

• Nissa's Renewal I want to be able to hard cast my big guys...
• Woodweaver's Puzzleknot turn on Spire of Industry, also 6 life is relevant with all the aggro decks around
• Whirler Virtuoso another energy sink and blockers generator
• Rogue Refiner this one is surprisingly good. I cut one Spider to make room for 3. Card draw is sweet.

Sideboard choices:

• Authority of the Consuls good against combo or aggro, can buy us some time
• Fragmentize against vehicles and mirror
• Kozilek's Return aggro, can handle token decks and possibly counters
• Negate vehicles, control decks, decks tat bring in disruption. I was also thinking against Metallic Rebuke, not sure which one is better...
• Fumigate B/G counters. They can get out of range of Kozilek's Return surprisingly quickly
• Shock sometimes we just need quick removal. Also against combo.
• Elder Deep-Fiend I usually side them in when I side out some combo pieces. Good tempo card and we can emerge it off relatively cheaply.

I am still working on Jeskai control version but my feeling now is that Marvel build is just better. We need to sacrifice 6-8 control slots for combo in control deck and it's pretty hard to do it without compromises.

Now I see why you guys run Descend upon the Sinful over Fumigate. That's one adjustment to make.

I tried Baral, Chief of Compliance , but I wasn't that impressed. The cost reduction does not have that much of an impact, as we usually have a ton of mana. The card draw helps, but I'd rather have a consistent one that helps me dig for combo pieces, than occasional. He also lower number of spells you're running...

Two reasons for Declaration in Stone. Various token decks, that arise in popularity right now and also Metalwork Colossus decks that seem to be raising as well...

About Radiant Flames maindeck... I don't know. It might be a good idea, but I would like to see the initial shape of the meta before. If there are a lot of those deck then for sure it's a good idea, but since we're a control we need to adapt to the meta anyway...

I tried Gideon, and he was... Underwhelming. He can be countered with negates, we don't have a good way of protecting him once he's out.
I don't think we want his tokens, and the emblem does not seem so relevant with the Gearhulks and manlands if we go beatdown. So the only thing is the soldier mode. But we have already good ways of going beatdown...

Or is there something I did not see?

Quote from realbiglurch2014 »

Thoughts on including Spell Queller in this control build? I'm sure it's gonna show up as a counter for the cat/lady in some way.

I don't like Queller - there's so much removal for it that it's just delaying the spell for a turn or two. Also you can't run boardwipes, which I do and like...

Here's my current decklist:


Towers are in SB to dodge the hate game 2/3.

I still want to test Cataclysmic Gearhulk, as it might be interesting choice.
Also need to look more closely at the manabase, Evolving Wilds might make sense there to help against flood, which happens to me from time to time, but I like manlands / hubs, so it's hard to tweak...

I will update OP this week, real life got in the way of doing it today...

I think control strategy really, really wants Nahiri, the Harbinger. She's great to dig for combo pieces and to tutor if you miss one.
I haven't considered Cataclysmic Gearhulk, but that's definitely an option, I'll give it a go and share initial results tonight.

Long story short I'm running control shell now, similar to the alternative build I posted, but with 4 Towers in the SB to dodge the hate. Still requires tweaking, but results are very promising.