MTG Salvation

So, recently moved into college, couldnt take most of my collection, but found a great local store id like to play at.
Looking for something i could cobble together with a mixture of what ive got on me, and cheapish singles I could order or trade for(common readily available staples only for trades).

Ive got with me one trade binder, a W/B Warriors Deck from Therosish era standard, and a Red Pyro Goggles Combo from Origins standard.
Ill mention singles i feel are noteworthy below.

Staples/Interesting Cards ive got with me

- Lands:
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Watery Grave
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Razorverge Thicket
1x Windswept Heath
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Flooded Strand
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Temple of Abandon
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Temple of Silence
1x Moorland Haunt

- Staples:
4x Path To Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Dismember
1x Liliana Of The Veil

- Odds and Ends:
4x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Sword of the Meek
1x Basilisk Collar
4x Gravecrawler
4x Geralf's Messenger
3x Pyromancer's Goggles
4x Hangarback Walker
2x Pia and Kiraan Nalaar
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Courser of Kruphix
4x Bloodsoaked Champion
4x Arashin Foremost
2x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
1x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Champion of the Parish
2x Elspeth Tirel
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4x Banishing Light
1x Narset Transcendant
1x Sarkhan Unbroken
1x Xenagos, the Reveler
2x Avatar of the Resolute
2x Polukranos, World Eater
2x Xenagos, God of Revels
2x Athreos, God of Passage

Colors you like to play
Down with anything.

Style you like to play (control, combo, aggro, midrange, tempo, ramp, rogue)
Aggro, Tempo, Combo

Budget you have
75 USD

Level you want to play at, or aim to build up to (causal, fmn, ptq)
FNM

Im honestly intrigued that people are still trying to play anything other than G/W Allies or G/W AllyHumans after the printings of Metallic Mimic and Hardened Scales. 4 Counters everytime a vanilla ally enters is nothing to scoff at, turning even cards like Hada Freeblade into formidable beaters with speeds and mana efficiency potentially rivaling even Tarmogoyf. Even little guys without natural pump of their own, such as Harabaz Druid andKabira Evangel can join the fray with a solid thwack with 2+ counters Also a crossed ally/human build with the likes of Champion of the Parish, Thalia's Lieutenant, and 1 or 2 valueAbzan Falconers could be devastating. There are so many options in G/W that its often a space cram! Obviously we have access to great accelerants as well, such asCollected Company andLead The Stampede. We can flood the field quickly in multiple ways, the most attractive being eitherHarabaz Druid in combination with hand refilling(stampede) or Aether Vial, which doesnt always feel useful, but allows us to cheat in Allies to activate Kabira Evangel or add counters for a combat trick-esque tech.

I really think going into colors other than this is just an utter waste of potential, and we could have a t2 deck on our hands if we got our heads together, worked at this, and quit monkeying around in red.

Also, Pretty Sure Return To The Ranks is way better than people are evaluating it as. Its another burst of speed we can use to close out that can reliably pull in 2-3 bodies, more if youre not actually sitting on an empty board. All without the Randomness of CoCo. I think 1-2 are mainboardable, with an extra in the side for control heavy matchups.

Any spell put under an Isochron Scepter with cause the paradox to untap everything when used. If you have 2 mana worth of rocks, mana dorks, boderposts, etc, you can generate infinite untaps, infinite mana with 3. If you have a temple bell or an atlas, you can dig your library out for an Angel's Grace and just cause both players to draw any remaining cards.

Honestly, Paradox Engine is just a janky version of the old Retraction Helix and Isochron + Dramatic Reversal combos, both of which have much earlier consistent kill turns and dont have main combo pieces that cost 5 mana just by themselves, and are infinite in all variations.

Building around this card is a waste of time. It will never be as competitive as these other combos, and those decks are not competitive. Any usable infinite variations of this card will actually probably involve Isochron or Helix in some way, And honestly, its just not worth it. Also the piece doesnt have enough intrinsic value to be put into a shell simply because of its hefty casting cost.

If you *really* want to brew this, dont brew it as a combo deck, find some way to just get value out of it with midrange or aggro.

I say we run 2-3 grapeshot maindeck and swap 2 copies for a psyche and an emrakul game 2. The atlas seems better after playing 20 or so games with it, but im not quite sold. It has value for sure though, so ill be testing it more. Another interesting kill option we could try out would be Grindclock.

I think we also need at least 2 copies of our kill spell. Have lost to random Thoughtsiezes/Inquisitions, and played against a mesmeric orb mill.

Also we should try to come up with a solution for our Stony Silence issues. Ive jsut had to scoop to it most games because i either wasnt running green, or my only green source was a rock. Enchantment hate in general is hard for this deck. Anyone know anything in red/blue thats decent enchantment removal? Id prefer not to have to splash. The Best ive found so far are Echoing Truth andCyclonic Rift

Also really? i love me my Disrupting Shoal its a 3 of in most of my blue decks.

Lastly, verdict onEnergy Chamber vs Surge Node? ive been liking it way better, its no instant pop off, but it leaves you with extra mana up the next turns and has better investment

My issue with the Atlas is that its another card we NEED to have to go off, instead of something that simply makes it easier. Also Pshyche gets hosed by counterspells. And if the opponenet is playing disrupting shoal or pact of negation, you are quite literally serving yourself up to them, even letting them have a minimum of 20 chances to draw an answer to it. If it does get shot down, you also dont have a way to win. especially if they have some graveyard hate. I just think its less reliable is all. could be a sideboard option for leyline, but then again so is emmy.

Lots of new thoughts, and suggested cards here.
Figured i might as well address tutors and card advantage, since its obviously a point of contention.

First of all, I think it somewhat depends on the list you are playing, but every list probably should be running 4-12 card advantage/tutor cards.

Muddle The Mixture: I think regardless of the list you are running, we have to agree that this is a 4 of. It tutors both Dramatic Reversal and Isochron Scepter as well as Grapeshot if thats your kill condition, and any 2 mana mana rocks (Any Talisman, the 2 mana draw rock, etc). It can even be put under the scepter itself to wall out certain decks, and essentially negating opposing counterspells once you get the mana to use it every turn. I firmly believe this is an absolutely mandatory 4 of.

Reshape: Probably pretty good.can fetch neraly anything, and let us have instant access to it. Obvious drawback being that you need a sac outlet to make it work. I thin kif you run it, you need to be running 4x Darksteel Citadel as well.

Fabricate: The most underwhelming of the artifact tutors. probably should be confined to the creature based lists with the druid and BOP since they wont have a sac outlet, or ways to use thirst for knowledge

Dimir Infiltrator: Muddle the Mixture copies 5-8 without the bonus stuff. Not great, not terrible. Try it if youre laxking the consistency i suppose

Peer Through Depths: The hardest things to find in the deck are our spells. Highly reccomended in the grapeshot build.

Thirst For Knowledge: Very good in the charge rocks build to get rid of the dead surge nodes and coretappers in your hand after you already have enough counters down.

Tezzeret's Gambit: I liked it more than i thought i would actually. But its still a little redundant. If it added counters from 0, itd for sure be a 4 of in the charge rocks build, but right now its kinda just.. Winmoreish.

Thoughtcast: Super dead on the early turns, but shines t3-t5. Only for use in charge rocks.

Day's Undoing: Yeah, no. Seriously dont do it. I swear they draw 3 copies of stony silence every time.

Ancient Stirrings: Cant hit the hardest things to hit. Doesnt hit Reversal, Grapeshot, ANy of our card advantage, etc. We have a nice natural flow of mana rocks, so the only thing this is truly good for is the scepter. Seems like a waste.

Merchant Scroll: Straight downgrade to Muddle or Infiltrator.

Trinket Mage: Pretty good in charge rocks to my surprise. Hes a blocker that grabs an opal or an X mana artifact. I think he'd pair nicely with a 1 or 2 of Engineered Explosives/Chalice of the Void. Basically fabricate on legs, cant grab scepter unfortunately.

Tolaria West: Trinket Mage on a Land. Prolly a 2 of in charge rocks.

Serum Visions: I dont think cantrips are the way to go, but if you want to run one, grab this.

Thats my thoughts on card advantage and tutors.

One other note.

Why are we considering Otherwordly Atlas and Temple Bell for charge rocks when Magnifying Glass exists?
Charge rocks is an infinite mana build essentially. MGlass is 1 cmc less than atlas, and is ALSO one of the mana rocks we need to combo. Its strictly better. Molten Psyche is also just meh compared to Grapeshot or Banefire. No offense crunky, i know you wanna make it work <3.

I think Emmy is definetly good in game 2, and ill be running 1-2 copies sideboard, but nobody plays leyline game 1, so it feels like a dead card in the main deck up against its brothers Grapeshot and Banefire. If i wanted this combo in a control shell, i wouldn't run the combo. Id just run a few value scepters to stick a bolt or a counter under. I feel like its rough to run it in a shell, but ill be testing a few more variants.

Quote from crunkyeah »

I like the inclusion of Coretapper. He plays with most of the deck fairly well.

You think Thoughtcast/Serum Visions/Tezz's Gambit are the best cards for those slots? A Fabricate/Reshape/Muddle the Mixture would all be good cards to add in my opinion. I'm not sold on card draw since we have access to unlimited mana. With enough mana card draw seems lackluster. I can't see Serum Visions and Thoughtcast speeding up turn 1-2 that much so I'm skeptical to run them.

Thoughts?

Coretapper is good and could be the outlet that enables the charge rocks version, but atlas is too gimmicky. We definetly need tutors. Ill be testing a few charge rocks lists this after, prolly get like 15 or so games on each. ill post it here later.

Quote from Badabingbadabum »

I think that if we are to go in this direction then I think that the tutors need to go. I've never been a big fan of tutors in Modern, especially in a 5-6 card combo deck. Spending one turn getting one out of 5 pieces is just too slow. I'm a bigger fan of a combination between Serum Visions, Thoughtcast and Tezzeret's Gambit, the last one is unorthodox but I've been impressed with it for its ability to ramp and draw at the same time.

The deck I used to run was around 1-1½ turn too slow. Not sure that this combo speeds the combo up that much but It'd be nice to mess around with and find out.

We cant ditch the tutors specifically because its a multicard combo. You wont win games by hoping to draw into your pieces with cheap card advantage. Also of all the things to do with infite mana and card draw, a single emrakul isnt exactly the best win con in the book.

Quote from crunkyeah »

I like the direction you're going, ThaGentleman. Someone already mentioned it but Magnifying Glass could be a good one. It is a 3 drop but adds the ability of drawing your deck and being a combo piece all in one. I think it's worth testing. Another card you may consider is Mind Stone.

Also with those flex spots you may want to consider a playset of Remand.

I have a hard time seeing how a Reshape package with 'charge rocks' isn't consistent enough but I'd have to try it out for myself to see. Could you further elaborate on why you don't think it's consistent enough? I'd sure appreciate it.

Felt really inconsistent in the early turns, you basically needed a surge node, and when you got it, you had an explosive start, but it just turned into a mana sink. I think the charge rocks are probably better for an infinite mana shell, but the grapeshot wincon is smoother, only needing 2 rocks of any kind.
[card]
I am currently testing Magnifying Glass and Serum Powder[/card]. I think theyre good but ill have to wait to give the verdict until ive had more time with them. The last rock will probably be one of the two. The more I play Pristine Talisman the more i just feel like its a dead card and a winmore.

Something I tried today and found great success with was Dimir Infiltrator He's essentially Muddle the Mixture copies 5-8, and would be run instead of fabricate/reshape. To make this work seamlessly, i swapped out talisman and borderpost for their Black/Red counterparts
(Veinfire Borderpost and Talisman of Indulgence)

Remand is definelty nice, im jsut not sure where to put it. Ive found myself using Peer Through Depths as the flex slots alongside the infiltrator and liking it, i might try it there. Also, i think tezz is defs good, but with more testing he feels a little slow.

On a side note, the charge rocks Surge Node combo might work running Energy Chamber with Trinket Mage,Tolaria West, and Reshape. Im curretly drafting a list for this iteration to run some tests.

Thoughts Everyone?

Another build im tinkering with has R/B borederposts and talisman for inquisition and such

Found a pretty reliable skeleton for the deck.
Ive been through 4 separate list types, and 2 shells with various changes;

U/G - Birds Of Paradise Sylvan Caryatid List running the combo and a card/mana infinite to make them mill out on a Blue Sun's Zenith or Fascination (This was a flop, tested three full builds and some partial changes and gave up)

R/G - Running the burn druid and a few other mana dorks, with some RG Borderposts, Grapeshot or Banefire wincon. (Not enough good tutors, wasnt reliable. Also very weak to any deck running Lightning bolt or Path to Exile)

Artifacts - Running a little blue, and splashing red, but mostly colorless for Surge Node, Astral Cornucopia, Everflowing Chalice, and Mox Opal to try for a grapeshot kill (One of the better failures, partially inspired the end result, but was too inconsistent)

Shells:
Tezzerator - Tezzeret himself was rather strong and made the build ill be presenting, but the shell just doesn't have space for the combo, and some of its main tools, such as Trinket Mage and Engineered Explosives are rather unsynergistic

Lantern Control - Felt smooth manabase wise, but again, just didnt have space for the 2 conflicting ideals.



My build - This isnt quite complete, its missing a few slots which ill explain possible choices for below the build:


So, my thoughts on the cards that still need confirmation.
Mana Rocks. I've left open 4 slots for a playset of something. I dont know what really, but I think it needs to be another rock to consistently preform well. Stuff i've considered and tested with decent results at least are:
Pristine Talisman (Soft Alt win con against linear damage dealing decks) Issues: 3 mana. Sometimes your combo will come out a turn later because of it.
Serum Powder (has a nice passive, and as a mana rock its actually not bad to keep a hand with one) Issues: Being forced to exile combo pieces. Being a 3 drop.
Everflowing Chalice(drops for 2. is a rock. tutors for 0) Issues: Only provides 1 colorless in most situations with no extra effects.
Prismatic Lens(potential colored mana if we need it. drops for 2) Issues: if we combo out on t3 with only 2 rocks, no colorless.

Spells. I think 6-8 spots should go to some combination of these spells, and 0-2 to more islands, but havent decided which:
Fabricate(Gets Scepter or a Rock, but slow)
Reshape(Gets Scepter or a Rock straight into play, but at the cost of saccing something)
Peer Through Depths (helps us find our hardest to get pieces. (Grapshot and Reversal))
Thirst For Knowledge (Good Draw power at a cost)
Serum Visions (Good t1 play, but might be not as good of a contender in this deck)

Sideboard hasnt been developed yet but I think Welding Jar and Pact of Negation are shoe ins.
Because of our mana types provided by rocks, we have ample access to green for hate so we can hit stuff like Stony Silence.

My real question for everyone here, is why noneone seems to be running Grapeshot as the combo finisher?

Reasons to play grapeshot:
- The Dramatic reversals DO count towards storm. Read the wording on Isochron Scepter
- Cant be countered if you throw it out for more copies than you need
- Tutorable with Muddle the Mixture (You can obtain the ENTIRE combo with 1 tutor, and its a counter on top of that)

Why run cheesy finishers that dont reliably close games or require multiple cards when you could go for the tried and true route?

Also. Pact of Negation is probably at least a 2 of

Very much dislike the phyrexian crusader tbh. Its just inkmoth without evasion. Lotleth Troll is just a better target overall. I would reccomend possibly Den Protector?

Also i'd highly reccomend siding some Ground Seal. Saves you from most graveyard hate, the only notable exception being Rest In Peace

Could a Golgari variant playing den protector over life from the loam be viable? Possibly with Boneyard Wurm and/Or Gofy?

I've been cockatrice testing to try to make this work and had some success with a list running fauna shaman, den protector and the gofy+wurm. I often find myself scavenging the wurm for more than the gofy actually. Also, on top of his flip effect, den protector has pretty reliable evasion after being scavenged onto