Was wondering if anyone has removal suggestions agains U & W Planeswalkers and the UW control match-up in general. Do we ever SB out Strangler if they have visions? Lost the second game to UW Control because I assumed they'd remove Ancestral Visions mb after I processed one g1. g3 I straight-up lost to a resolved Elspeth (took out a Jace with Anguished Unmaking the turn before) couldn't deal with the token generation.
I played against the deck yesterday in a 6 round tournament (went 3-2-1) and the match ended in a draw. I don't think it is correct to board out stranglers in this matchup. First of all, the way to beat them in my opinion is to be too fast for them to handle. Thus, you don't want to board out your early threats. Second, their deck really relies on being able to refill their hand with visions. I don't think they ever board it out. I don't know if it is the correct play but I will almost always process their visions if given the opportunity. Even if it means killing the strangler itself if there are no other targets.
I don't think you should side out much of your removal. I could be mistaken but I like keeping it in. Push hits collonades and path hits Gideon if they animate him. Other than that, you rely on Anguished Unmaking for Jace and Elspeth (I run 1 main and 1 in the side). Pithing Needle is also a super useful card in a wide variety of situations. It shuts off any of their threats (collonades and walkers) and unless they counter it they only have Detention Sphere to deal with it. I run 2 in the side.
The matchup is tough but not unwinnable. Our temple draws are really good against them since we need to win before they can stabilize. Lingering Souls is also really good since they mostly rely on spot removal. Picking their hands apart with Thoughtseize and Thought-Knot Seer is also very good. I prioritize their wrath effects (Supreme Verdict and Detention Sphere if I have souls) unless I have a chance to take an Elspeth or a Gideon since they run so few win conditions.
I've been playing this deck exclusively for little over a month now.
Went 2-2 at my last fnm (wins: 8-whack, mono-blue boomerang; losses: UW Control, 8 rack) and 1-3-0 at the fnm before that (3 draws against Living end, Grixis Delver and a fevered visions deck and 1 win against UR Control) XD.
I've been enjoying gemstone caverns a lot as it potentially enables more turn 2 & 3 TKS and turn 3 & 4 Smashers respectively (last game I had, played a turn 2 TKS, turn 3 Smasher and t4 Sorin (with another Smasher in hand)). I tried doing a search of the thread but couldn't find much discussion concerning Gemstone Caverns. I cut Seagate Wreckage and a GQ in favour of it (been feeling GQ is a little lackluster against anything other than manlands as most of the time I need the mana it would otherwise produce and Seagate Wreckage was doing nothing for me. So I cut 1 of each from my previous list. Although, I could've been playing both wrong.)
I don't get enough practice in with the deck and find myself losing to misplays. Seeing the benefit of celestial purge now (will be acquiring some soon and will probably take out the wails). Thinking of getting 2 Marsh Flats later this month and might consider running Crucible of Worlds. I see Deadrift asked for anyone's thoughts on Sacred Ground as opposed to Crucible quite a while back. I would also be very much interested if anyone has any thoughts on this card. I'm assuming it hasn't made the sb cut because it's too narrow and we can't use it recur lands we sac ourselves?
Was wondering if anyone has removal suggestions agains U & W Planeswalkers and the UW control match-up in general. Do we ever SB out Strangler if they have visions? Lost the second game to UW Control because I assumed they'd remove Ancestral Visions mb after I processed one g1. g3 I straight-up lost to a resolved Elspeth (took out a Jace with Anguished Unmaking the turn before) couldn't deal with the token generation.
Hi Guys, was wondering if there has been any discussion on Liliana Heretical Healer in an Orzhov build? If so, I'd be very thankful for a link to the discussion or a rough idea as to how many pages I should go back. Thank you.
Also been seeing talk of an orzhov aggro build on the last few pages with Bontu. Does anyone have a sample decklist? I'm imagining it would look something like the budget magic list Saffron Olive brewed a few weeks back.
Hi Guys, lurked here once every so often and always wanted to buy into goblins tribal. Mostly an affinity player and take a lot of pleasure in building new decks so end up building several at once and take a while to complete them. Finally started to put together two goblins lists and would love any input Have tested the first of the two and found it to be blisteringly fast but a bit of a glass canon and a little one-dimensional. I don't know. I've temporarily retired the first list and will start testing the second one over the next few weeks but would appreciate any advice on any changes Goblin veterans or enthusiasts would be kind enough to recommend.
Mox Opal ban would be the most devastating ban for Affinity and I don't think Affinity would be competitive without it. It can go away with Plating or Ravager ban but Mox is too crucial for the deck in my opinion. I don't see this happening though.
I'm with you on this. I think if the deck loses relevance it'll be due to power-creep.
Dispossess is too slow to affect us and doesn't even deal with copies on the battlefield, Manglehorn is a Reclamation Sage that only hampers the Moxen and Drums cast after turn 3 (which is when they've exhausted their usefulness), Dissenter's Deliverance is just a worse Ancient Grudge on every level and By Force costs 1 net mana more than Shattering Spree in any case as well as it's also countered by just one Spell Pierce as opposed to Spree which puts a ton of copies on the stack. On 3+ you might as well cast Shatterstorm.
The only thing remotely relevant for us in Amonkhet is Harsh Mentor.
Don't disagree that stony silence is probably the worst hate we can see and I'm not particularly phased with Shatterstorm or Creeping Corrosion. Ancient Grudge is annoying. But I'm not happy with the increase in the abundance and accessibility of hate.
On a separate note, have you seen Archfiend of Ilfnir? The living end matchup is likely to depreciate in their favour. Feeling pessimistic here. Maybe wizards will make up for slowly killing us off with an artifact land unban. That would be great. It would make ravager fantastic but not so sure I'd want to ditch the manlands. Maybe I would, it would be nice to be able transition between something like the current build and the older iterations of the deck to complicate SB hate choices. Hell, I'd love to beat down with Frogmites and Myr Enforcers.
This deck has proved resilient in the past. Thinking I might start ditching Master of Etherium in favour of more copies of Etched Champion mainboard. Is this wrong?
Does anyone think As Foretold will have an impact on us in our Ux match-ups. I keep imagining As Foretold + Ancestral Visions with no suspend and remember the days when UR Delver was king. Would something like Jeskai Nahiri want to make room for it, for instance? And what would we do to play around it? Would anyone consider possibly cutting ancient grudge from their sideboards for Wear//tear?
Hi etcherik! I am glad also to see new BW Eldrazi players around. This deck is a blast!
My best suggestion to you is to read the last 20 or so pages of discussion. There is soooo much useful Info, different builds and angles of attacks that choosing your playstile will be easy after that. This deck is not easy to pilot, you have many many choices to make, from which land to lay down turn 1, and what you are expecting to play three turns ahead to all the discards+removals decisions (do I take this kalithas now or take the k-command and hope to draw a path/push/unmaking to deal with him?). You need to study well your meta and each possibility of what the deck can do.
Also, I sincerely suggests you go after Marsh flats. They are what makes the deck playable. Polluted deltas or windswept Heath's are not enough.
Regarding your sideboard, I would cut stony to 2, extractions to 1 and the duress. Pithing needle is a must, and I like to play a couple fulminator mages to have an out to valakut/tron. Yahenni expertise is also a good card, and I like to play a 1/1 split of expertise and wrath.
And cut the eternal scourge... It will be a dead card 90% of time, as the modern meta today will rarely let you attack with it.
Anyway, have fun with the orzhov aliens!
Hi Zirzhas, thank you for the solid advice!
Played the deck again last and went 2-2. For reference, this is what my deck looked like after Herfs helped me with the sideboard yesterday.
My wins were against BG Deathcloud and Goblin tribal while my losses were against Naya Valakut and Infect. Infect loss was variance and bad luck. But the Valakut deck ran Nahiri, the Kaladesh Chandra, Through the Breach, Primeval Titan, Sakura Tribe Elder, Valakut and Emrakul? I've never seen that before. I got wrecked g1 and g2 and had to mull to 4 in the latter. Don't think I could've won that match without some crazy t2 Thought-knot seer nut draw unless I had something like Leonin arbiter... I left feeling extremely tilted and a little despondent.
Overall, I've been surprised with the deck's performance over the last two weeks. It seems like it's a powerhouse, I mean it carried me through a Bloodmoon last night against the goblins deck with lingering souls saving the day by putting up a wall of spirits (I drew into 3 copies)! But I'm nowhere near competent with the deck yet and haven't been able to draw out its strengths, being a noob with midrange and control. The deck seems like it has a lot of nuance and I'm in agreement that it's skill-intensive.
I wound up throwing Eternal Scourge in for testing after seeing Skred lists running it a while back. I thought it might be good against attrition decks but we're already very well suited for those match-ups anyway. And out of the games I've played with the deck, Eternal Scourge was relevant in one match: Deathcloud after the namesake made me lose my hand, my board and all my lands. The guy started killing me off with a manland and an eternal witness. I dropped scourge, and while I went down to 1 HP, it literally sucked up my opponent's removal (lol) and bought me enough time to draw into my own removal and threats. But otherwise it has been pretty useless and 90% of the time, it's the first card I cut unless it's an attrition game and even then I'm tempted to cut it to bring in more discard. So I'm definitely going to take your advice and cut it and then try to find more room for 2 Thoughtseizes.
I'm also eagerly going to take the rest of your advice Fulminators sound great. I'll pick up a Yahenni's expertise first chance I get and will try to begin acquiring the Marsh Flats over the next few months.
But right now I'm going to catch up on some reading on this thread and become very quiet until I'm in a position to contribute meaningfully or desperately need help from you guys
I like Blight Herder myself (as 2x-of SB card for midrange match-ups) but I'd never replace Reality Smasher with it as it is just a much better creature and a legitimate closer for the deck.
Hi Dennis, I like the idea of running Elspeth, Knight-errant mainboard (don't have access to any of the Sorins yet) Is she legitimately good in this deck though? Suppose I'll have to find out tonight I also what to try Blight Herder SB but what would we sb out for it in the midrange games? Sorry if these are dumb questions, I'm a complete novice with this deck.
Extra T1 discard is real, real good--I had room for 5 in that build, compared to 3 in my current deck. This helped a lot against some combo decks I played.
Sculler is extremely good as a T2 play followed by T3 Strangler, but it is very greedy in the manabase--I felt I only had room for 6 colorless-only lands (4x Temple and 2x GQ). No Cavern, no Vault, no Wreckage, one less GQ.
When using Herder, it is much harder to side out Relics. Herder is greedy for processing fodder, and it is so hard to get without Relic in play. This leads to keeping Relic in the 60 post-SB even in cases where its only function is to enable Herder instead of to interfere with the opponent's plans. No bueno.
Herder is still an amazing play when it processes. But it is still challenging to turn that on sometimes. Sculler and Path aren't really enough, especially if you're also trying to get value out of Strangler a turn or two before you're trying to also get value out of Herder. This makes me wonder about swapping out one Relic for a main-deck Surgical Extraction which can often get 4 cards into exile very early on, especially with all the hand disruption. It can also occasionally shut an opponent down if they have a key primary wincon (Bridge in Lantern, Titan in RG Valakut decks, etc.)
I definitely missed haste and trample in a couple of situations (against Nahiri and other planeswalkers, when at 3 and topdecking vs. Burn).
Working hypothesis: The choice of 5-drop finisher is meta-dependent. Corollary: Smasher and Sculler don't fit into the same deck. Herder is higher ceiling in some matchups (vs. control, vs. Suspend decks, vs. lots of targeted removal, vs. Blood Moon) and Smasher is higher ceiling in others (vs. Burn, vs. planeswalkers, oftentimes in late-game topdeck wars). Herder is lower floor though overall, because it's really pretty bad compared to Smasher if it doesn't process.
I'll probably keep testing the Sculler/Herder build, right now the jury (in my courtroom at least) is out. The crucial factor might turn out to be how much control and combo I start to see--Herder and lots of hand disruption are both very good against these decks.
Glad to see you finally testing out tidehollow sculler!!!!!!! You really need to add some eldrazi displacers to the deck so you can do the displacer + tidehollow combo on their draw step. I feel that wasteland strangler is a good card and amazing when you curve out. However, it is not a great end-game top-deck card and not the greatest at pushing your guys through their defenses. Displacer, on the other hand, is a great card throughout the game. It is extremly powerful to be able to flicker their creatures on their turn and freely attack the following turn. If you want to give tidehollow a fair shot, I would try something like this:
Or something from a previous post when I was brewing with fatal push.
I should add that I think that tidehollow is in a REALLY bad spot right now. Too many fatal pushes and k-command's running around.
I am also glad that people are starting to add more discard to the main board. It was always weird to me that people started cutting thoughtseize and iok. We want to get cards in their graveyard to exile then process. It is a core part of the deck. I would say that 6 discard spells is mandatory for a processor deck. With the iteration of the deck that I listed above, you have 9 ways to get in the opponents hand. That should be a nightmare for control.
I had a lot of fun with it and went 2-1-1 as follows:
1-1 vs Abzan Coco/GW Hatebears rogue brew (tough, actually went to turns and drew) [EDIT: Turns out this was Abzan Cocowisp, another deck under development in the mtgsalvation forums. Can be found here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/686228-abzan-cocowisp]
2-0 vs Mono White Humans Aggro
2-0 vs Ad Nauseum (seemed like a very favourable match-up. Wasteland strangler ate a lotus bloom and burped it out of the exile zone g1. g2 Inquisition on phyrezian unlife into surgical extraction seemed to do the trick).
1-2 vs Jund (I don't know either. I thought this would be a more favourable match-up but apparently Kalitas messes up our Matter Reshapers and that lifegain puts them back up from behind the game. Found myself wishing I had Anguished Unmaking instead of Oblivion Ring. In future, I will have more dismembers and less discard in the SB and will board out the reshapers purely because of kalitas).
[EDIT: There were around 23 players and I ended up 8th overall.]
I will probably be trying the deck again at the next fnm
If anyone could give me some pointers on sideboarding with this deck or if anyone could lead me to some pointers, it would be very much appreciated.
Otherwise, any tips on improving my list and grinding out Jund/Abzan midrange would be very much appreciated (I'm very aggro oriented and inexperienced with a deck like ours).
I briefly recall seeing Eldrazi Displacer discussed over here but the consensus seemed to be that we want Lingering Souls over it despite the pseudo-lock with thought-knot seer, because Lingering Souls helps us trade more favourably and on our own terms with other midrange decks and helps chump aggro? I can definitely see the logic behind that but I was wondering if someone hasn't tried a version with displacer and found themselves liking it at all? (I saw this video with Corbin Hosler playing a Mardu variant that ran Eldrazi Displacer with Hangarback Walker so that has got my attention: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13671&writer=Corbin Hosler&articledate=12-12-2016)
Other than that, thank you all for developing this really neat, under-appreciated deck and let's hope we can push this thing closer to the top of the charts!
To me, your sideboard is a mess. We don't really need any additional graveyard hate because we run relics mainboard. If you are trying to ghost quarter tron's land then use surgical extraction that is your call. To me adding surgical dilutes the deck to much. With Tron we want to rip apart their hand with thoughtseize AND apply pressure. You can look at some previous posts here where deaddrift and I discussed the Tron matchup.
You can also tone down the number of life gain cards in your sideboard. Collective brutality is the best card (by far) that we have against burn. It absolutely wrecks them. All three modes are relevant. If you have 2 (total) you should be okay. I think that deaddrift talked about the sideboard more in depth than the primer in a previous post, but I cannot remember for sure.
Congrads on the 2-1-1 and, more importantly, on having fun!
Thanks Herfs, I'm also not happy with my sideboard. I did have them there for trying to attack manabases but I've been having doubts given the nonbo with relic of progenitus. I'm going to cut 2 surgical extraction, duress and timely reinforcements and then replace them with 2 Day of Judgment (I don't have access to damnation or wrath of god yet), pithing needle and dismember. Celestial Purge and Disenchant are easy enough for me to acquire. What which match-ups do we want to bring the celestial purges in for? Going to read the tron discussion now, thank you for your input so far and the links
I had a lot of fun with it and went 2-1-1 as follows:
1-1 vs Abzan Coco/GW Hatebears rogue brew (tough, actually went to turns and drew) [EDIT: Turns out this was Abzan Cocowisp, another deck under development in the mtgsalvation forums. Can be found here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/686228-abzan-cocowisp]
2-0 vs Mono White Humans Aggro
2-0 vs Ad Nauseum (seemed like a very favourable match-up. Wasteland strangler ate a lotus bloom and burped it out of the exile zone g1. g2 Inquisition on phyrezian unlife into surgical extraction seemed to do the trick).
1-2 vs Jund (I don't know either. I thought this would be a more favourable match-up but apparently Kalitas messes up our Matter Reshapers and that lifegain puts them back up from behind the game. Found myself wishing I had Anguished Unmaking instead of Oblivion Ring. In future, I will have more dismembers and less discard in the SB and will board out the reshapers purely because of kalitas).
[EDIT: There were around 23 players and I ended up 8th overall.]
I will probably be trying the deck again at the next fnm
If anyone could give me some pointers on sideboarding with this deck or if anyone could lead me to some pointers, it would be very much appreciated.
Otherwise, any tips on improving my list and grinding out Jund/Abzan midrange would be very much appreciated (I'm very aggro oriented and inexperienced with a deck like ours).
I briefly recall seeing Eldrazi Displacer discussed over here but the consensus seemed to be that we want Lingering Souls over it despite the pseudo-lock with thought-knot seer, because Lingering Souls helps us trade more favourably and on our own terms with other midrange decks and helps chump aggro? I can definitely see the logic behind that but I was wondering if someone hasn't tried a version with displacer and found themselves liking it at all? (I saw this video with Corbin Hosler playing a Mardu variant that ran Eldrazi Displacer with Hangarback Walker so that has got my attention: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13671&writer=Corbin Hosler&articledate=12-12-2016)
Other than that, thank you all for developing this really neat, under-appreciated deck and let's hope we can push this thing closer to the top of the charts!
Picked up Affinity back in November and have loved playing it but decided to tech it out a bit. Last 5 tournaments:
4-0
3-1
2-1-1
4-0
4-0
Before i post my build, yes it is different than traditional affinity but in my meta it really puts in work because 90% of my Meta is slaughtered by a t1 Chalice for 1, not to mention all the other lines of play this build has. Not saying it is for every meta but Trawler is insane in this particular build.
So many lines of play but basically you asap get either:
1) Ravager/Trawler going- This allows you to sack 0 cost to ravager then recur them, its why chalice doesnt hurt you because you can sack it, play what you want, then recur and recast it. same with EE, Opal for mana, Citadel for an extra mana, crypt to screw goyfs over and over
2) Map/Fair/Crucible- Go grab the bullets you need to win the game, thinning your deck of lands, and if trawler is out everytime you map you can get a 0 cost back to EE/Chalice/+1 Ravager.
So yes the build is different, but it is badass, and i suggest you play atleast 2-3 matches just for fun to see what you guys think. So many decks it shuts down and just completely wrecks so many strategies because of all the answers it has. Yeah ill bridge YOU every turn, and take my +1/+1 counter. Or EE for 5 because of Chromatic Lantern. Blood moon who?
Only thing i could see is running either Atog or Gargadon in the side for an extra sac outlet
Cool deck Incredibly different though XD. Have you thought of starting a new thread on the deck creation area as well?
Hi guys. I've been keeping an eye on the Amonkhet spoilers and I'm seeing things like Dispossess, By Force, Harsh Mentor, Dissenter's Deliverance and Manglehorn. Can we expect much of an impact against us in modern pr are these going to be pretty low on our radar?
The issue abut Wear // Tear to fight Stony Silence is that it requires several things to go right in order to do its job. It's not just that it's hard to cast under it but by the time you will have both Wear // Tear itself and Glimmervoid to cast it you will very possible be too far behind to matter. I agree that Ghirapur Aether Grid is the best way to fight Stony Silence and should the first card to come in if you expect that piece of hate, after that some mix of Thoughtseize and Stubborn Denial or Spell Pierce. This should already be enough cards since you don't want to over sideboard.
The "how to fight Stony" has been debated often. The consensus now seems to be to ignore it and bring in Ghirapur Æther Grid to get some value of your shut down artifacts. I have opted for this solution too in the past, and some games the strategy worked, coz you draw the right part of your deck (Glimmervoid and creatures).
Lately I've come to the conclusion that Stony does wreck our gameplay too much for us to ignore it. My main concern is that Stony does not only take out the Drums and Opals, but also Darksteel Citadel. Most of the games I lost was not for the lack of coloured mana, but for the lack of mana in general.
I have been testing the following:
Most opposing decks board in only 1 enchantment like Stony, Worship, Night of Souls' Betrayal to combat us.
I've been toying around with 3x Spire of Industry in the sideboard with either 2x Wear or 2x Dromoka's Command. Spire also comes in in non-white, non Ghost Quarter mu for the basic land.
Dcommand can take out Stony Silence, but is double coloured.
Hear me out! The plan is when an opponent plays white, you can be sure that Stony will come in.
You take out 3x Darksteel Citadel for the Spires in order to increase the odds of hitting (double) coloured mana. Add the Commands/Wears & Aether Grids.
Bringing in Thoughtseize and Spell Pierce is to narrow if it is just to combat Stony Silence.
If they don't slam a Stony, Dcommand is never a dead card coz the other mods are relevant, like "countering" an Anger/Bolt or putting an extra counter on a Nexus/Ravager.
Trust me, you're opponent will be salty and think you got lucky, coz you fought through their premier hate card.
In testing Spire of Industry solves the Stony problem of having mana in general, but Grid is starting to lose value for me in the current meta.
Hahaha XD. Brilliant! No one will see this coming! I shall try it someday. After I've finished testing Thoughtseize mainboard.
So I'm seeing some new card in Affinity's 75s. I'm seeing Glint Nest Crane, Bitterblossom, and Rest in Peace.
I'm not that fond on Crane, did anyone try it already?
And what do you think about the other 2? Bitterblossom seems great in grindy matchups, and RIP is a better Relic with the only downside of partially shutting our Ravager. Thoughts?
Craig Wescoe mentioned Glint Nest Crane as an innovative addition to the deck in this article http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13867&writer=Craig Wescoe&articledate=3-24-2017. I was shocked honestly and don't like the look of it either. Granted, I haven't tried it yet. Although I think I'd sooner play Ensoul Artifact because it's already a hasty threat and doesn't still need to search out a threat and then cast it.
I thought Bitterblossom is an awesome idea at first glance but a problem that might have is that the faerie tokens it produces don't exactly synergize with Steel Overseer, Master of Etherium or Arcbound Ravager and would probably need a plating or a signal pest to turn said tokens into threats?
Thanks! This is exactly the advice I needed
I've been playing this deck exclusively for little over a month now.
Went 2-2 at my last fnm (wins: 8-whack, mono-blue boomerang; losses: UW Control, 8 rack) and 1-3-0 at the fnm before that (3 draws against Living end, Grixis Delver and a fevered visions deck and 1 win against UR Control) XD.
This is my current list:
2 Gemstone caverns
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmouth
3 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Shambling Vent
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Godless Shrine
Creatures:
3 Matter Reshaper
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Mindstone
4 Relic of Progenitus
Instants and Sorceries:
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
1 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
1 Anguished Unmaking
Planeswalkers:
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Collective Brutality
2 Warping Wail
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Blessed Alliance
3 Stony Silence
1 Eternal Scourge
2 Day of Judgment
I've been enjoying gemstone caverns a lot as it potentially enables more turn 2 & 3 TKS and turn 3 & 4 Smashers respectively (last game I had, played a turn 2 TKS, turn 3 Smasher and t4 Sorin (with another Smasher in hand)). I tried doing a search of the thread but couldn't find much discussion concerning Gemstone Caverns. I cut Seagate Wreckage and a GQ in favour of it (been feeling GQ is a little lackluster against anything other than manlands as most of the time I need the mana it would otherwise produce and Seagate Wreckage was doing nothing for me. So I cut 1 of each from my previous list. Although, I could've been playing both wrong.)
I don't get enough practice in with the deck and find myself losing to misplays. Seeing the benefit of celestial purge now (will be acquiring some soon and will probably take out the wails). Thinking of getting 2 Marsh Flats later this month and might consider running Crucible of Worlds. I see Deadrift asked for anyone's thoughts on Sacred Ground as opposed to Crucible quite a while back. I would also be very much interested if anyone has any thoughts on this card. I'm assuming it hasn't made the sb cut because it's too narrow and we can't use it recur lands we sac ourselves?
Was wondering if anyone has removal suggestions agains U & W Planeswalkers and the UW control match-up in general. Do we ever SB out Strangler if they have visions? Lost the second game to UW Control because I assumed they'd remove Ancestral Visions mb after I processed one g1. g3 I straight-up lost to a resolved Elspeth (took out a Jace with Anguished Unmaking the turn before) couldn't deal with the token generation.
Thanks in advance guys!
Also been seeing talk of an orzhov aggro build on the last few pages with Bontu. Does anyone have a sample decklist? I'm imagining it would look something like the budget magic list Saffron Olive brewed a few weeks back.
15 Mountain
2 Darksteel citadel
Non-creature artifacts:
2 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
Creatures:
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
3 Bomat Courier
4 Legion Loyalist
2 Burning-tree Emissary
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Devastating Summons
4 Kuldotha Rebirth
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Dismember
2 Electrickery
3 Gut Shot
2 Reality Hemorrhage
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Devastating Summons
18 Mountain
Creatures:
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Mogg War Marshal
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Goblin Grenade
4 Manamorphose
3 Pyretic ritual
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Gutshot
2 Electrickery
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Reality Hemorrhage
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Blood Moon
Love seeing discussion about genesis chamber in this deck, awesome idea guys
I'm with you on this. I think if the deck loses relevance it'll be due to power-creep.
Don't disagree that stony silence is probably the worst hate we can see and I'm not particularly phased with Shatterstorm or Creeping Corrosion. Ancient Grudge is annoying. But I'm not happy with the increase in the abundance and accessibility of hate.
On a separate note, have you seen Archfiend of Ilfnir? The living end matchup is likely to depreciate in their favour. Feeling pessimistic here. Maybe wizards will make up for slowly killing us off with an artifact land unban. That would be great. It would make ravager fantastic but not so sure I'd want to ditch the manlands. Maybe I would, it would be nice to be able transition between something like the current build and the older iterations of the deck to complicate SB hate choices. Hell, I'd love to beat down with Frogmites and Myr Enforcers.
This deck has proved resilient in the past. Thinking I might start ditching Master of Etherium in favour of more copies of Etched Champion mainboard. Is this wrong?
Does anyone think As Foretold will have an impact on us in our Ux match-ups. I keep imagining As Foretold + Ancestral Visions with no suspend and remember the days when UR Delver was king. Would something like Jeskai Nahiri want to make room for it, for instance? And what would we do to play around it? Would anyone consider possibly cutting ancient grudge from their sideboards for Wear//tear?
And I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but has anyone experimented with Bastion Inventor? Would it have a place, for instance, in one of the older iterations that run the "affinity" mechanic? Like this one: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-real-affinity-modern
Hi Zirzhas, thank you for the solid advice!
Played the deck again last and went 2-2. For reference, this is what my deck looked like after Herfs helped me with the sideboard yesterday.
3 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmouth
2 Shambling Vent
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Godless Shrine
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Eldrazi Temple
Creatures (15):
3 Matter Reshaper
1 Eternal Scourge
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Though-knot seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
1 Anguished Unmaking
Artifacts (7):
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Mindstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Collective Brutality
3 Stony Silence
2 Dismember
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Day of Judgment
My wins were against BG Deathcloud and Goblin tribal while my losses were against Naya Valakut and Infect. Infect loss was variance and bad luck. But the Valakut deck ran Nahiri, the Kaladesh Chandra, Through the Breach, Primeval Titan, Sakura Tribe Elder, Valakut and Emrakul? I've never seen that before. I got wrecked g1 and g2 and had to mull to 4 in the latter. Don't think I could've won that match without some crazy t2 Thought-knot seer nut draw unless I had something like Leonin arbiter... I left feeling extremely tilted and a little despondent.
Overall, I've been surprised with the deck's performance over the last two weeks. It seems like it's a powerhouse, I mean it carried me through a Bloodmoon last night against the goblins deck with lingering souls saving the day by putting up a wall of spirits (I drew into 3 copies)! But I'm nowhere near competent with the deck yet and haven't been able to draw out its strengths, being a noob with midrange and control. The deck seems like it has a lot of nuance and I'm in agreement that it's skill-intensive.
I wound up throwing Eternal Scourge in for testing after seeing Skred lists running it a while back. I thought it might be good against attrition decks but we're already very well suited for those match-ups anyway. And out of the games I've played with the deck, Eternal Scourge was relevant in one match: Deathcloud after the namesake made me lose my hand, my board and all my lands. The guy started killing me off with a manland and an eternal witness. I dropped scourge, and while I went down to 1 HP, it literally sucked up my opponent's removal (lol) and bought me enough time to draw into my own removal and threats. But otherwise it has been pretty useless and 90% of the time, it's the first card I cut unless it's an attrition game and even then I'm tempted to cut it to bring in more discard. So I'm definitely going to take your advice and cut it and then try to find more room for 2 Thoughtseizes.
I'm also eagerly going to take the rest of your advice
But right now I'm going to catch up on some reading on this thread and become very quiet until I'm in a position to contribute meaningfully or desperately need help from you guys
Thank you all once more!
Hi Dennis, I like the idea of running Elspeth, Knight-errant mainboard (don't have access to any of the Sorins yet) Is she legitimately good in this deck though? Suppose I'll have to find out tonight
Thanks Herfs, I'm also not happy with my sideboard. I did have them there for trying to attack manabases but I've been having doubts given the nonbo with relic of progenitus. I'm going to cut 2 surgical extraction, duress and timely reinforcements and then replace them with 2 Day of Judgment (I don't have access to damnation or wrath of god yet), pithing needle and dismember. Celestial Purge and Disenchant are easy enough for me to acquire. What which match-ups do we want to bring the celestial purges in for? Going to read the tron discussion now, thank you for your input so far and the links
3 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmouth
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Eldrazi Temple
Creatures (15):
3 Matter Reshaper
3 Wasteland Strangler
1 Eternal Scourge
4 Thought-knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
1 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
2 Fatal Push
Enchantments (1):
1 Oblivion Ring
Artifacts (7):
3 Mind Stone
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Collective Brutality
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Dismember
I had a lot of fun with it and went 2-1-1 as follows:
1-1 vs Abzan Coco/GW Hatebears rogue brew (tough, actually went to turns and drew) [EDIT: Turns out this was Abzan Cocowisp, another deck under development in the mtgsalvation forums. Can be found here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/686228-abzan-cocowisp]
2-0 vs Mono White Humans Aggro
2-0 vs Ad Nauseum (seemed like a very favourable match-up. Wasteland strangler ate a lotus bloom and burped it out of the exile zone g1. g2 Inquisition on phyrezian unlife into surgical extraction seemed to do the trick).
1-2 vs Jund (I don't know either. I thought this would be a more favourable match-up but apparently Kalitas messes up our Matter Reshapers and that lifegain puts them back up from behind the game. Found myself wishing I had Anguished Unmaking instead of Oblivion Ring. In future, I will have more dismembers and less discard in the SB and will board out the reshapers purely because of kalitas).
[EDIT: There were around 23 players and I ended up 8th overall.]
I will probably be trying the deck again at the next fnm
If anyone could give me some pointers on sideboarding with this deck or if anyone could lead me to some pointers, it would be very much appreciated.
Otherwise, any tips on improving my list and grinding out Jund/Abzan midrange would be very much appreciated (I'm very aggro oriented and inexperienced with a deck like ours).
I briefly recall seeing Eldrazi Displacer discussed over here but the consensus seemed to be that we want Lingering Souls over it despite the pseudo-lock with thought-knot seer, because Lingering Souls helps us trade more favourably and on our own terms with other midrange decks and helps chump aggro? I can definitely see the logic behind that but I was wondering if someone hasn't tried a version with displacer and found themselves liking it at all? (I saw this video with Corbin Hosler playing a Mardu variant that ran Eldrazi Displacer with Hangarback Walker so that has got my attention: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13671&writer=Corbin Hosler&articledate=12-12-2016)
Other than that, thank you all for developing this really neat, under-appreciated deck and let's hope we can push this thing closer to the top of the charts!
Cool deck
Hahaha XD. Brilliant! No one will see this coming! I shall try it someday. After I've finished testing Thoughtseize mainboard.
Craig Wescoe mentioned Glint Nest Crane as an innovative addition to the deck in this article http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13867&writer=Craig Wescoe&articledate=3-24-2017. I was shocked honestly and don't like the look of it either. Granted, I haven't tried it yet. Although I think I'd sooner play Ensoul Artifact because it's already a hasty threat and doesn't still need to search out a threat and then cast it.
I thought Bitterblossom is an awesome idea at first glance but a problem that might have is that the faerie tokens it produces don't exactly synergize with Steel Overseer, Master of Etherium or Arcbound Ravager and would probably need a plating or a signal pest to turn said tokens into threats?