We want to generate value by going wide, and using our tokens to stall when need be.
With Peazy on the board, if they're swinging with a 5/6 goyf, the bolt you have in hand becomes a blocker that also deals 3 damage to face.
On paper the deck seems fragile. On paper Faithless Looting doesn't make much sense. But it's a deck that you have to play with to really get a feel for it in my experience.
Last week I went 2/2 with a good amount of punts and RNG.
This week I plan on testing out a Hazoret in the main. With 3 K Commands in the main it seems like it should work out.
Last week I took something similar to the list I posted at the top of page 158, dropping the plains and the paths for some more Fatal pushes and a Burst Lightning.
I ended up going 1-3 in four rounds.
RG Ponza 1-2
Game one I got Blood Moon'd on turn two. This was a wonderful experience to come back to Modern to.
I ended up reaching critical mass on board several times, but in the end their topdecks brutalized mine, especially post sweepers and the like.
GW Tron 2-1
This was the matchup I was most paranoid about, because my sb options were not very tuned or prepared for it.
I ended up siding in 3 Phyrexian Revokers because I didn't have needles, and in spite of not having the tech necessary for the MU, the maindeck was able to come through just fine. Game 3 he cast Rule of Law, and I was able to leverage it against him with Pyro value for the win.
I completely expected to lose to this matchup.
SaffronOlive Siege Rhino 0-2
This matchup felt terrible, I'm unsure how you've all fared against grindy midrange decks?
The lifegain and the toughness made the burn feel really muddy, and in game 2 I misplayed by surgically extracting the rhinos themselves instead of the Unburial Rites, and it cost me the match.
Jeskai Control 1-2
This matchup felt great, black disruption lines up against most of what they're playing pretty well, especially post game 1.
They won game 1, I won game 2 feeling pretty confident, and I conceded the third game for personal reasons.
What I learned:
- I'm playing in a value based metagame.
- Collective Brutality, which I had as a 3 of, 1 main 2 side, felt terrible every single time, and rarely gave any value.
- An undealt with Kambal is really brutal
- I rarely drew either of my 2 K Commands, but I always wanted them.
The SB is more what I'm working towards than what I already have. I'm missing two Moons, a thoughtseize, and a wear/tear.
Which brings up the question: How often do you find yourselves casting both sides of wear/tear, and in what matchups does this happen?
The macabres may end up being spellbombs in the future as well. Just kinda testing everything out.
IME the problem with needing to bolt ourselves to cast Helix was so true all throughout that tournament. If I didn't need to spend the life for helix, then I could have potentially won out against the Rhino deck. Because of my curve, and because I think 3 Helix really helps out in a lot of ways, I added the basic plains back. In the near future I'm planning on switching out the Godless Shrine in favor of either another Blood Crypt or a basic Swamp, and the Wooded Foothills for another Mesa or Marsh Flats. I also like 20 lands because it helps me cast K commands more often, and have more potential for double 2CMC spell turns for the mid-late game.
Adjustments have been made to the list, and I'm running it this Thursday. Pretty excited.
Did you guys see that list on SCG where the dude ran 4 K Commands in the main? What did you think about that?
For my SB, it's purely tentative, as I don't have much of the stock pieces that usually comprise what our SBs are made of.
I'm thinking about using a few Rakdos Charm, as they can serve as a less-interactive Nihil Spellbomb and also as a Tear, what are your thoughts?
Also, the Revokers are mainly against Lantern Control, but I think they'd also be great as an anti-walker slot in a pinch.
Any wisdom? How are your lists performing? Thanks.
Hey Y'all
New to the deck, saw it on YouTube and instantly fell in love.
I'm a burn convert, played the deck because it was what I had even though it's not really my playstyle.
I have all of this save the fourth Cliffs, and the two Commands. The maybeboard is the semblage of other options I have for a sb or even mb slots.
I've been out of my LGS' modern circuit for awhile, and don't know what the meta looks like, other than that Eldrazi Tron isn't really represented.
What do you think of this list, should I just make the second mainboard brutality the third thoughtseize?
I didn't want to get fancy with my picks just yet, but coming from burn the Swiftspears make me paranoid about entering topdeck mode without any flashbacks.
I understand their function is baller damage to finish up, but I wonder how logistic them taking this slot in the deck is. Experiences?
Alsom how do we generally fare against Lantern Control, and how do we deal with them?
Yo. Played Pox when I was a kid back when Extended was a thing, saw the rise of Bob, Tarmogoyf, and snap, ended up leaving eternal formats and moved towards commander for awhile. I've always loved legacy, and have always thought it was the best format.
I recently got a new job and am going to have a lot more income.
I love playing midrange and control builds, and like to play 'fair magic'.
Favorite color is black.
I was building abzan Nic Fit for awhile, but feel like that's a deck that can really only shine when one knows the meta around them.
I have the whole of the list sans the duals and half the fetches.
I've been looking at Death and Taxes strategies, but also, my love for Bob has been grilling me something fierce.
What deck should I run?
Is it really so simple as to add a few scrubs into a DnT list with like 3 bobs and call it a day?
I'd imagine that in that scenario I could move SoFI into the side.
I'm not married with that idea either. Thanks for your time.
If it's free to play, I'm in. I'm kinda terrified knowing that they'll probably do -something- Ravnica, and that it'll probably be so condensed and small compared to the original books/setting. I guess I just need to get over it.
I wonder if they'll try to eventually incorporate the same sort of link that WoW and Hearthstone have, either with MTGO itself or whatever Digital Next has up their sleeve regarding THAT mess...
It'll be fun enough to roll up some Orzhovan toons inside of the actual canon, regardless.
So I was rifling through my cousins' commons bin when I came across brightstone rit and empty the warrens and thought that this could go together.
I was gonna make a new thread but then I saw this one. How is your non-warrens build working for you? My list here at the moment is pure conjecture.
My plan was to get off a stabilizing warrens, making around 4-8 tokens on like turn 4-5 or so, with the aim of keeping the gobbos on the field and chumping just enough to survive until the untap step.
Then you would storm off, draw a million and bushwhack ftw. I think I'm lacking a mana generation component. This is just a first draft, but it seems like this build could work? Nice list OP.
Headminerve, when I was pondering putting Saskia as a fun of in the main, I considered upping my DRS count to 4. I think that you could manage to get it as a 3 of, which would help your manabase, could ramp you, and make your therapies flashback more often. Otherwise I don't think it'll work out as much as one would hope.
Looking at your original 4c list, I would say you could drop Lili LH, a deed, and maybe a decay? Maybe even a GSZ?(gasp) Whatever works for you.
With DRS you can hit the oddball mana color a lot more often, even when its' just a flash. When the opp brings out the wastelands then it can end up working in your favor to make that crucial midrange play (like a therapy into leovold) and then snowball back. Without DRS a scenario like that seems less common.
Hope that helps, that build looks really cool and I wish you success.
LURKER HERE - QUESTIONS:
1: How well does the incursion of Ghost Quarters help in the bad MU's of Tron, Valakut, and co?
2: How often do you find opponents failing to find when you Path or Quarter?
3: If there is a reliance on Qhost Quarters in those Matchups, why not Grim Discovery?
4: Across the varied builds here, what would each of you consider being the 'crux card' of the deck? What card wins you the swing matchups and why?
5: With the 'rise' of Infect and Burn, do you think this deck is well positioned in the Meta?
Still vulturing around this build, I really adore it and I think it can go places.
Concerning the stereotypically bad matchups, I feel like Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter could really help demolish in tandem with both Path and Quarter, and I feel like most of their win-cons are reliant on some form of tutoring.
LURKER HERE - QUESTIONS:
1: How well does the incursion of Ghost Quarters help in the bad MU's of Tron, Valakut, and co?
2: How often do you find opponents failing to find when you Path or Quarter?
3: If there is a reliance on Qhost Quarters in those Matchups, why not Grim Discovery?
4: Across the varied builds here, what would each of you consider being the 'crux card' of the deck? What card wins you the swing matchups and why?
5: With the 'rise' of Infect and Burn, do you think this deck is well positioned in the Meta?
Still vulturing around this build, I really adore it and I think it can go places.
Concerning the stereotypically bad matchups, I feel like Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter could really help demolish in tandem with both Path and Quarter, and I feel like most of their win-cons are reliant on some form of tutoring.
We want to generate value by going wide, and using our tokens to stall when need be.
With Peazy on the board, if they're swinging with a 5/6 goyf, the bolt you have in hand becomes a blocker that also deals 3 damage to face.
On paper the deck seems fragile. On paper Faithless Looting doesn't make much sense. But it's a deck that you have to play with to really get a feel for it in my experience.
Last week I went 2/2 with a good amount of punts and RNG.
This week I plan on testing out a Hazoret in the main. With 3 K Commands in the main it seems like it should work out.
I ended up going 1-3 in four rounds.
RG Ponza 1-2
Game one I got Blood Moon'd on turn two. This was a wonderful experience to come back to Modern to.
I ended up reaching critical mass on board several times, but in the end their topdecks brutalized mine, especially post sweepers and the like.
GW Tron 2-1
This was the matchup I was most paranoid about, because my sb options were not very tuned or prepared for it.
I ended up siding in 3 Phyrexian Revokers because I didn't have needles, and in spite of not having the tech necessary for the MU, the maindeck was able to come through just fine. Game 3 he cast Rule of Law, and I was able to leverage it against him with Pyro value for the win.
I completely expected to lose to this matchup.
SaffronOlive Siege Rhino 0-2
This matchup felt terrible, I'm unsure how you've all fared against grindy midrange decks?
The lifegain and the toughness made the burn feel really muddy, and in game 2 I misplayed by surgically extracting the rhinos themselves instead of the Unburial Rites, and it cost me the match.
Jeskai Control 1-2
This matchup felt great, black disruption lines up against most of what they're playing pretty well, especially post game 1.
They won game 1, I won game 2 feeling pretty confident, and I conceded the third game for personal reasons.
What I learned:
- I'm playing in a value based metagame.
- Collective Brutality, which I had as a 3 of, 1 main 2 side, felt terrible every single time, and rarely gave any value.
- An undealt with Kambal is really brutal
- I rarely drew either of my 2 K Commands, but I always wanted them.
This is my updated list:
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Blood Moon
1 Dreadbore
1 Forked Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lightning Helix
2 Terminate
2 Fatal Push
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Collective Brutality
2 Blood Moon
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Wear // Tear
2 Pithing Needle
1 Thoughtseize
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
The SB is more what I'm working towards than what I already have. I'm missing two Moons, a thoughtseize, and a wear/tear.
Which brings up the question: How often do you find yourselves casting both sides of wear/tear, and in what matchups does this happen?
The macabres may end up being spellbombs in the future as well. Just kinda testing everything out.
IME the problem with needing to bolt ourselves to cast Helix was so true all throughout that tournament. If I didn't need to spend the life for helix, then I could have potentially won out against the Rhino deck. Because of my curve, and because I think 3 Helix really helps out in a lot of ways, I added the basic plains back. In the near future I'm planning on switching out the Godless Shrine in favor of either another Blood Crypt or a basic Swamp, and the Wooded Foothills for another Mesa or Marsh Flats. I also like 20 lands because it helps me cast K commands more often, and have more potential for double 2CMC spell turns for the mid-late game.
Thoughts?
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
1 Forked Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Kolaghan’s Command
2 Terminate
2 Fatal Push
1 Burst Lightning
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Mesa
1 Godless Shrine
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Smash to Smithereens
2 Collective Brutality
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Forked Bolt
2 Bontu's Reckoning
1 Dragon's Claw
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
Adjustments have been made to the list, and I'm running it this Thursday. Pretty excited.
Did you guys see that list on SCG where the dude ran 4 K Commands in the main? What did you think about that?
For my SB, it's purely tentative, as I don't have much of the stock pieces that usually comprise what our SBs are made of.
I'm thinking about using a few Rakdos Charm, as they can serve as a less-interactive Nihil Spellbomb and also as a Tear, what are your thoughts?
Also, the Revokers are mainly against Lantern Control, but I think they'd also be great as an anti-walker slot in a pinch.
Any wisdom? How are your lists performing? Thanks.
New to the deck, saw it on YouTube and instantly fell in love.
I'm a burn convert, played the deck because it was what I had even though it's not really my playstyle.
I have all of this save the fourth Cliffs, and the two Commands. The maybeboard is the semblage of other options I have for a sb or even mb slots.
I've been out of my LGS' modern circuit for awhile, and don't know what the meta looks like, other than that Eldrazi Tron isn't really represented.
What do you think of this list, should I just make the second mainboard brutality the third thoughtseize?
I didn't want to get fancy with my picks just yet, but coming from burn the Swiftspears make me paranoid about entering topdeck mode without any flashbacks.
I understand their function is baller damage to finish up, but I wonder how logistic them taking this slot in the deck is. Experiences?
Alsom how do we generally fare against Lantern Control, and how do we deal with them?
4 Bedlam Reveler
2 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Lingering Souls
4 Faithless Looting
4 Inquisition
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Forked Bolt
1 Terminate
1 Fatal Push
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Stomping Ground
3 Arid Mesa
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Path to Exile
1 Lightning Helix
1 Terminate
1 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Forked Bolt
1 Painful Truths
Thank you.
Yo this blog has a bunch of awesome stuff in it! Keep it up!
I recently got a new job and am going to have a lot more income.
I love playing midrange and control builds, and like to play 'fair magic'.
Favorite color is black.
I was building abzan Nic Fit for awhile, but feel like that's a deck that can really only shine when one knows the meta around them.
I have the whole of the list sans the duals and half the fetches.
I've been looking at Death and Taxes strategies, but also, my love for Bob has been grilling me something fierce.
What deck should I run?
Is it really so simple as to add a few scrubs into a DnT list with like 3 bobs and call it a day?
I'd imagine that in that scenario I could move SoFI into the side.
I'm not married with that idea either. Thanks for your time.
I wonder if they'll try to eventually incorporate the same sort of link that WoW and Hearthstone have, either with MTGO itself or whatever Digital Next has up their sleeve regarding THAT mess...
It'll be fun enough to roll up some Orzhovan toons inside of the actual canon, regardless.
will start building.
Seeing the pre-Garruk lists really make me wonder how you actually can accrue that much mana underneath the lock.
Like does rampant growth + arbor elf really get there?
For those who have tried Masticore what do you think? I'm prone to playing cheesey drops, and the card makes me feel like a kid again.
I was gonna make a new thread but then I saw this one. How is your non-warrens build working for you? My list here at the moment is pure conjecture.
My plan was to get off a stabilizing warrens, making around 4-8 tokens on like turn 4-5 or so, with the aim of keeping the gobbos on the field and chumping just enough to survive until the untap step.
Then you would storm off, draw a million and bushwhack ftw. I think I'm lacking a mana generation component. This is just a first draft, but it seems like this build could work? Nice list OP.
2 faithless looting
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 treasure cruise
4 empty the warrens
4 manamorphose
2 distant melody
4 brightstone ritual
4 goblin bushwhacker
4 dispel (slash other counterspell that also counters shrivel?)
16 basics
from my understanding this list as is would be too slow for aggro decks because they can kill semi consistently on turn 4 or so unchallenged iirc?
This list doesn't interact at all.
How has shared discovery worked for you?
Looking at your original 4c list, I would say you could drop Lili LH, a deed, and maybe a decay? Maybe even a GSZ?(gasp) Whatever works for you.
With DRS you can hit the oddball mana color a lot more often, even when its' just a flash. When the opp brings out the wastelands then it can end up working in your favor to make that crucial midrange play (like a therapy into leovold) and then snowball back. Without DRS a scenario like that seems less common.
Hope that helps, that build looks really cool and I wish you success.
If I were to build a drop into a blind meta, how would this suffice?
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wasteland Strangler
2 Matter Reshaper
2 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Anguished Unmaking
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Godless Shrine
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Marsh Flats
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Shambling Vent
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Plotting this out for the first time makes me ponder what the function of this particular Sorin has in this deck? Why is it chosen over perhaps Lord of Innistrad, or even Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Ajani Steadfast, or Liliana, the Last Hope?
Also, at least on paper, Matter Reshaper feels bad man. What has it done for you, and how often do you actually capitalize on its' death clause?
1: How well does the incursion of Ghost Quarters help in the bad MU's of Tron, Valakut, and co?
2: How often do you find opponents failing to find when you Path or Quarter?
3: If there is a reliance on Qhost Quarters in those Matchups, why not Grim Discovery?
4: Across the varied builds here, what would each of you consider being the 'crux card' of the deck? What card wins you the swing matchups and why?
5: With the 'rise' of Infect and Burn, do you think this deck is well positioned in the Meta?
Still vulturing around this build, I really adore it and I think it can go places.
Concerning the stereotypically bad matchups, I feel like Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter could really help demolish in tandem with both Path and Quarter, and I feel like most of their win-cons are reliant on some form of tutoring.
6: Why then aren't these cards auto-adds?
GLORY TO YOU
1: How well does the incursion of Ghost Quarters help in the bad MU's of Tron, Valakut, and co?
2: How often do you find opponents failing to find when you Path or Quarter?
3: If there is a reliance on Qhost Quarters in those Matchups, why not Grim Discovery?
4: Across the varied builds here, what would each of you consider being the 'crux card' of the deck? What card wins you the swing matchups and why?
5: With the 'rise' of Infect and Burn, do you think this deck is well positioned in the Meta?
Still vulturing around this build, I really adore it and I think it can go places.
Concerning the stereotypically bad matchups, I feel like Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter could really help demolish in tandem with both Path and Quarter, and I feel like most of their win-cons are reliant on some form of tutoring.
6: Why then aren't these cards auto-adds?
GLORY TO YOU
What does your list look like, and what is your meta like?