You could also -2 Lilly to trade with a creature, and then follow up with a Fatal Push to take another one. It's a desperate trade, but it's sometimes worth it.
Also, 80% of the time or so, we don't really need to trigger Revolt.
I used to include Aven Mindcensor in my maindeck, and also had a one-off of Crucible too, but felt they mostly suited the sideboard instead and Crucible felt winmore.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers are pretty much my only wincon, and I sometimes even use them to cast Anger of the Gods when entering, to clean the board and start the beating. I think I'll stick to the three I have, as it usually takes some time to find me one anyway.
Btw, one of the reasons I play Chalice is of course to shut alot of cards off for my opponent, but it also protects Both Goblins and Maguses from pretty much every kind of removal in the format (not counting Terminate here...).
The 2 Linvala are actually there just because of Elves, but I feel them being a bit too slow. I have an idea to change my fourth Anger in the SB to a Pyroclasm, and add another one. I think they could actually work good against both Elves and a couple of creatures in Taxes, don't you think?
Also, as I I'm not facing anything artifact-heavy in the top-8 now, I'm thinking of changing my 2 Shattering Spree for something else (a ricochet trap and a boil comes to mind).
It's not a fast deck at all. It's a stax landkill list that locks my opponent out of the game and wins with small beatings.
The only cards that are commonly played that can kill my wincons (Magus & Goblins) are Path, and that's one of the reasons you see 4 Chalices and no 1-drops from my side.
Planeswalkers are NOT an option in this kind of deck, as they are amazingly bad with 4 Suppression Fields in maindeck.
As I said, my maindeck can handle the current meta very well, and it's been taking several top-8 places the last years or so. It's the sideboard against the decks I mentioned I need some help with
Ok guys... I got an upcoming serious tournament against my local meta soon, and I need some advice.
I've decided to go with my old Landkill-list, and need some suggestions for what I'm about to face (I already know who I'm gonna face as it's a top-8 for our seasonal league in modern).
------------------------
This is my current list:
3 Goblin Dark-Dweller
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Suppression Field
4 Boom/Bust
4 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Rugged Prairie
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Gemstone Caverns
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Mountain
-----------------------
Nothing fancy or special there really.. and I'm not too concerned about my maindeck as It's been proven to work over and over again.
But, the sideboard is what I'm debating right now, and here it is:
-----------------------
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Shattering Spree
2 Runed Halo
2 Lightning Helix
2 Boil
-----------------------
And that brings us to what I think/know what I'm gonna face, and how I think about my cards right now...
1. Elves (I feel kinda safe agains this. It's a problem that they don't really need their lands to pay for upkeep and/or attacks, but my 3 maindeck Anger, and Magus makes this an OK matchup. The 2 Linvala and extra Anger in SB is especially for this matchup.)
2. Grixis Delver (My deck doesn't like blue, especially decks with counterspells. The good thing is that I'm facing a tempo-deck, not the control version. Still I am unsure about this matchup, and I could use something extra in SB to make it better - Thinking about squeezing 2 Ricochet Traps into it, cuz it's amazing against blue decks.)
3. Taking Turns (This matchup is bad, really bad. Counterspells combined with a deck that could draw extra lands and doesn't get affected by Suppression Field and Magus is a bad matchup. Boils are for this matchup, but I think that Ricochet Trap could work against this also.
4. Eldrazi & Taxes (This is also kind of a bad matchup, as they put early pressure into the table, and can take some of my important cards from hand. Thalia is probably the worst card for me to handle early game, but I at least hope that Ghostly Prison and Suppression Field can do some good against their Aether Vial and early beaters. Dunno how to increase my matchup against this, really...
5. Bant Spirits (I think my friend is gonna play this list, but I'm not sure. Haven't faced it with my Landkill but I think I have a fair chance. Anger is a keycard here, and I need to be aware of Spell Queller. I still think that I can face this deck with an OK winrate.
6. Living End (I know I should include Rest in Peace for this matchup, but I'm not sure if it's worth it... I can usually handle their boardstates with Ghostly Prison and Magus, but sometimes they are just too quick. Also, Suppression field is insanely good against their deck, and so is Chalice maindeck.
Any ideas/suggestions? I'll gladly hear you all out about what you think
Hope you're not all dead...
I've been playing a Planeswalker heavy variant of the old Nahiri brew recently with great success. Just wanted to share the decklist and maybe get some of your ideas about it
Trying my luck for the first time with Boggles now on sunday. Been trying different things out but ended up with the following build (just want to maybe squeeze in a Ghostly Prison or 2, but where?
I quoted your saying that "23 lands is more than enough for everything you would want to do, even if you were to play smallpox for some reason", no more, no less. And you even agree on the fact that your "advise" was false.
You agree that most competetive players and even research tell that 24 is the right number when playing 4 Smallpox (some players go low, and hit 23), but in no way does this even come close to your statement in that "23 lands is MORE than enough...".
You continue to state things in this thread, even from the start, without any proof or testing at all. Robert even challenged you to test stuff out and come back with numbers and actually debate wether your points were valid or not. Well, did you?
I seriously don't know how to even answer your statements about 8-rack not needing lands as the curve stops at 3... Well, yeah it does. But you don't seem to understand the reason for players having 4 Raven's Crime (as you state that pretty much anything else in our deck, other than lands is better than Raven's Crime) and by that point you explain that we don't need many lands as we rarely even want to use them as fuel for Raven's Crime (It's a bad card, remember?).
Back to the point about Smallpox. How many decks run less than 4 Smallpox, if even running it? I've seen VERY few. Maybe that's why I, and many more, read your advise about playing less lands than 23 as false, as your lands become fuel once again and it will sometimes become very hard to play your Liliana if you don't have enough lands in your deck.
You also continue to argue that Collective Brutality in itself would be a "better" card than Smallpox and Raven's Crime, which is completely absurd and irrelevant, as it doesn't have the immense value that Smallpox offers in most matches, and doesn't give the ability at all to keep our opponent in hellbent-mode (so we can win) as Raven's Crime. It's not just a bad comparison, it has absolutely no meaning and gives no deeper understanding for our deck to new players at all...
I think it would be way better if you (as the primer-writer of this thread) actually would open up your eyes to the fact that cards you don't like (as Raven's Crime and Smallpox, just as an example) are played in our archetype with MUCH success, regardless of your hating and stating irrelevant information and write about things as they are.
The whole community of 8-rack would benefit greatly.
Besides, 23 lands is more than enough for everything you would want to do, even if you were to play Smallpox for some reason.
How in god's name did you end up with that calculation?
I mean, I know you both stated the words "for some reason" in the same sentence as "Smallpox" and have earlier made it quite clear you have a few different views on 8-rack and playing Smallpox but seriously...?
No one benefits from false advise, and I would definately say that playing 23 lands is NOT more than enough if you want to play 4 Smallpoxes and run your deck successfully.
Especially if you still want to use Ravens Crime and/or Lilianas.
Esperino> Fortunately for us we already have a really good matchup against Death's Shadow with monoblack, so I see absolutely no reason at all to go white to play Lingering Souls instead of keeping it monoblack and painless as BrandonJames16 stated.
Yeah, white has some really good SB-options we don't get by playing monoblack, but it also comes at a steep price. It's just ignorant to keep ignoring that fact.
SirFrancois> Yeah, but the problem with Bloodghast is that he wants us to play lands, otherwise he'll just stay in the graveyard... And in our deck we rarely wanna go more than 3 lands in play, the rest is kept as a fuel for Raven's Crime to keep our opponent in Hellbent-mode, so that our wincons do what they are meant to be doing.
Crumble to Dust is never "useless" because of Blood Moon ^^
Blood Moon doesn't change the subtype of the lands, so they are still nonbasic and retain their name, thus are excellent targets with Crumble to exile...
Also, 80% of the time or so, we don't really need to trigger Revolt.
I used to include Aven Mindcensor in my maindeck, and also had a one-off of Crucible too, but felt they mostly suited the sideboard instead and Crucible felt winmore.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers are pretty much my only wincon, and I sometimes even use them to cast Anger of the Gods when entering, to clean the board and start the beating. I think I'll stick to the three I have, as it usually takes some time to find me one anyway.
Btw, one of the reasons I play Chalice is of course to shut alot of cards off for my opponent, but it also protects Both Goblins and Maguses from pretty much every kind of removal in the format (not counting Terminate here...).
The 2 Linvala are actually there just because of Elves, but I feel them being a bit too slow. I have an idea to change my fourth Anger in the SB to a Pyroclasm, and add another one. I think they could actually work good against both Elves and a couple of creatures in Taxes, don't you think?
Also, as I I'm not facing anything artifact-heavy in the top-8 now, I'm thinking of changing my 2 Shattering Spree for something else (a ricochet trap and a boil comes to mind).
It's not a fast deck at all. It's a stax landkill list that locks my opponent out of the game and wins with small beatings.
The only cards that are commonly played that can kill my wincons (Magus & Goblins) are Path, and that's one of the reasons you see 4 Chalices and no 1-drops from my side.
Planeswalkers are NOT an option in this kind of deck, as they are amazingly bad with 4 Suppression Fields in maindeck.
As I said, my maindeck can handle the current meta very well, and it's been taking several top-8 places the last years or so. It's the sideboard against the decks I mentioned I need some help with
I've decided to go with my old Landkill-list, and need some suggestions for what I'm about to face (I already know who I'm gonna face as it's a top-8 for our seasonal league in modern).
------------------------
This is my current list:
3 Goblin Dark-Dweller
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Suppression Field
4 Boom/Bust
4 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Rugged Prairie
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Gemstone Caverns
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Mountain
-----------------------
Nothing fancy or special there really.. and I'm not too concerned about my maindeck as It's been proven to work over and over again.
But, the sideboard is what I'm debating right now, and here it is:
-----------------------
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Shattering Spree
2 Runed Halo
2 Lightning Helix
2 Boil
-----------------------
And that brings us to what I think/know what I'm gonna face, and how I think about my cards right now...
1. Elves (I feel kinda safe agains this. It's a problem that they don't really need their lands to pay for upkeep and/or attacks, but my 3 maindeck Anger, and Magus makes this an OK matchup. The 2 Linvala and extra Anger in SB is especially for this matchup.)
2. Grixis Delver (My deck doesn't like blue, especially decks with counterspells. The good thing is that I'm facing a tempo-deck, not the control version. Still I am unsure about this matchup, and I could use something extra in SB to make it better - Thinking about squeezing 2 Ricochet Traps into it, cuz it's amazing against blue decks.)
3. Taking Turns (This matchup is bad, really bad. Counterspells combined with a deck that could draw extra lands and doesn't get affected by Suppression Field and Magus is a bad matchup. Boils are for this matchup, but I think that Ricochet Trap could work against this also.
4. Eldrazi & Taxes (This is also kind of a bad matchup, as they put early pressure into the table, and can take some of my important cards from hand. Thalia is probably the worst card for me to handle early game, but I at least hope that Ghostly Prison and Suppression Field can do some good against their Aether Vial and early beaters. Dunno how to increase my matchup against this, really...
5. Bant Spirits (I think my friend is gonna play this list, but I'm not sure. Haven't faced it with my Landkill but I think I have a fair chance. Anger is a keycard here, and I need to be aware of Spell Queller. I still think that I can face this deck with an OK winrate.
6. Living End (I know I should include Rest in Peace for this matchup, but I'm not sure if it's worth it... I can usually handle their boardstates with Ghostly Prison and Magus, but sometimes they are just too quick. Also, Suppression field is insanely good against their deck, and so is Chalice maindeck.
Any ideas/suggestions? I'll gladly hear you all out about what you think
Hope you're not all dead...
I've been playing a Planeswalker heavy variant of the old Nahiri brew recently with great success. Just wanted to share the decklist and maybe get some of your ideas about it
Trying my luck for the first time with Boggles now on sunday. Been trying different things out but ended up with the following build (just want to maybe squeeze in a Ghostly Prison or 2, but where?
Let me know what you think.
I quoted your saying that "23 lands is more than enough for everything you would want to do, even if you were to play smallpox for some reason", no more, no less. And you even agree on the fact that your "advise" was false.
You agree that most competetive players and even research tell that 24 is the right number when playing 4 Smallpox (some players go low, and hit 23), but in no way does this even come close to your statement in that "23 lands is MORE than enough...".
You continue to state things in this thread, even from the start, without any proof or testing at all. Robert even challenged you to test stuff out and come back with numbers and actually debate wether your points were valid or not. Well, did you?
I seriously don't know how to even answer your statements about 8-rack not needing lands as the curve stops at 3... Well, yeah it does. But you don't seem to understand the reason for players having 4 Raven's Crime (as you state that pretty much anything else in our deck, other than lands is better than Raven's Crime) and by that point you explain that we don't need many lands as we rarely even want to use them as fuel for Raven's Crime (It's a bad card, remember?).
Back to the point about Smallpox. How many decks run less than 4 Smallpox, if even running it? I've seen VERY few. Maybe that's why I, and many more, read your advise about playing less lands than 23 as false, as your lands become fuel once again and it will sometimes become very hard to play your Liliana if you don't have enough lands in your deck.
You also continue to argue that Collective Brutality in itself would be a "better" card than Smallpox and Raven's Crime, which is completely absurd and irrelevant, as it doesn't have the immense value that Smallpox offers in most matches, and doesn't give the ability at all to keep our opponent in hellbent-mode (so we can win) as Raven's Crime. It's not just a bad comparison, it has absolutely no meaning and gives no deeper understanding for our deck to new players at all...
I think it would be way better if you (as the primer-writer of this thread) actually would open up your eyes to the fact that cards you don't like (as Raven's Crime and Smallpox, just as an example) are played in our archetype with MUCH success, regardless of your hating and stating irrelevant information and write about things as they are.
The whole community of 8-rack would benefit greatly.
How in god's name did you end up with that calculation?
I mean, I know you both stated the words "for some reason" in the same sentence as "Smallpox" and have earlier made it quite clear you have a few different views on 8-rack and playing Smallpox but seriously...?
No one benefits from false advise, and I would definately say that playing 23 lands is NOT more than enough if you want to play 4 Smallpoxes and run your deck successfully.
Especially if you still want to use Ravens Crime and/or Lilianas.
Yeah, white has some really good SB-options we don't get by playing monoblack, but it also comes at a steep price. It's just ignorant to keep ignoring that fact.
SirFrancois> Yeah, but the problem with Bloodghast is that he wants us to play lands, otherwise he'll just stay in the graveyard... And in our deck we rarely wanna go more than 3 lands in play, the rest is kept as a fuel for Raven's Crime to keep our opponent in Hellbent-mode, so that our wincons do what they are meant to be doing.
Blood Moon doesn't change the subtype of the lands, so they are still nonbasic and retain their name, thus are excellent targets with Crumble to exile...