Hey all, it has been a while. I went wandering down the KCI rabbit-hole due to an overwhelming amount of Tron in my meta. That, in turn, caused me to put Pyro Prison down. I stumbled around modern since January not really knowing what to do, mostly playing Lanter/4C-Prison. Good times, but nothing like the old turn 1 blood moon. When new Karn was spoiled, I had a feeling I would be brewing with him and Liquimetal Coating. I was farting around with Sultai colors (not necessarily any all at a time), mostly staying artifact heavy - moderate success, but just felt off. Then I see Jacob DeQuack top 8's some SCG event and I was like...man, that deck was fun.
Anyways, to make a long story short, I am back on Pyro. I read Marulo's post and it had me thinking about how I have my deck tooled, currently. I agree with Caligula in regards to Karn and Coating...lights out. Coating and Abrade...lights out. T1 - Coating, T2-Abrade a land? Sure, why not?! I upped my MB coun to 3, and dropped Bridge to 2. I also took the Angers out for the time being and am testing MD Molten Rain as a 2-of. I like being able to flex an otherwise useless ritual into Molten Rain. Other fun things... T1 Chandra into Coating, T2 Karn into "sorry, you're gonna be stuck on 1 land for the game." Good times. Also, the best part is it wrecks Tron, which used to be absolutely miserable.
That was working pretty good up until about today...seems everyone on MTGO turned into 8-rack players overnight. Almost has me considering putting 2 Leyline of Sanctity in the side a la Lantern.
Ok guys I have a serious question. I mentioned recently on Discord that I've encountered 66 different archetypes in Modern in 2018 (now 67 after last night). I feel like I know the format pretty well. I went looking through 5-0 lists, I found a vexing one that not only has 1 5-0 but multiple by the same player.. So someone please explain WTFFF...
I've tried Norn's Annex in the past, never amaze me for these reasons :
1. Never want to drop bridge-like cards on turn 1,
2. It only affects greatly non-white decks with a lot creatures, which is usually have small (thoughness) and die to our sweeper.
But...with a new shell, where we bring more dragons inside, you are right about one-side semi bridge effect, I will definitely give Annex another shot.
One thing, no dragons will be able to replace rabblemaster for now. Me myself have tried to remove bridge to put more dragons (9 in total) with 6 rituals, and still will do some tests for it, but rabblemaster can't be replaced..
So I have been pretty busy enjoying my summer and my time with Magic has suffered, a bit. I have been dinking around on Mtg Arena and have really enjoyed playing with Sarkhan in a variety of builds. It just sort of sucks that all of the good dragons soon rotate and he will mainly be used to splash for the elder dragons, but that's standard for you. Because of this, and the recent success of Skred Dragons, I have been more and more wanting to build a dragon-based Pyro Prison Deck. I would like to keep the basic ramp ideas the same, have early moons and chalices available. Bridge is problematic, as the dragons are there to get busy. I know Russ has tinkered with the idea of going bridgeless, but I'm not sure we had the payoffs, or real reason to, back then. (You know, before core 19...way back then.) I'm curious if anything has been brewed up by anyone here? This is what I have, but very open to ideas:
I like to think it embodies the Pyro Prison mentality, just a bit experimental. As stated above, one of my concerns is combining bridge with dragons. I was digging around on Gatherer and noticed some spice in Norn's Annex. Now, Ensnaring Bridge this is not, but it does force your opponent to make some interesting decisions, especially if they go wide/small. We will never have to worry about not being able to get it down because of an odd chalice on 3. We can cast it without the white, and could potentially be out on t1, but it costs you 4 life. I'm not sure that is the worst thing when you can beat face with big ol' dragons and punish an aggro opponent in the meantime. I like the dragon selection to boost Sarkhan's value outside of filtering. Thundermaw is great for pushing through a large chunk. Chandra does what she does, and the rest is pretty routine. Not sure if the 5-drop count is too high, but I feel it might be. I went up to 22 land, but maybe I drop a glorybringer. If so, potentially play an additional sweeper to keep the board clear while I wait to drop beaters. Or go up a ritual to more consistently drop dragons on t2/3/4. Not sure if that is a great call, though, as I'd only have 11 dragons in the deck then. Plus, most t1/2 should be dedicated to setting up early lock pieces. In that regard, they do help. Not sure which provides more benefit, tbh. I might change it up and sway towards what Ray is doing in the MB and just balls-out ramp into things.
The sideboard is a little up-in-the-air, atm. I figure Scab-clan and Eidolon are good against decks that they are now and let us get small if we need to. Rabblemaster will be missed, but we could always toss in the whole fam to the side and run them out game 2, and play it like we normally play our game 1. That said, I would probably be more inclined to venture Ray's way and toolbox it out.
Mostly, I just want to jam dragons and play chalice or blood moon on t1. Anyone got any thoughts or experiences so far?
Also, as for the traditional Pyro Prison, I have been thinking about what has really blown me out lately, and it is almost always a chalice/bridge getting blown up. I tried welding jar a while back, but didnt like it. Creatures dying when I am trying to race is also the worst. Infect uses Apostle's Blessing to prevent the blowout. The "target artifact" clause has me thinking... It's also pretty spicy. Granted, I suppose Skellskite is more effective.
Maybe I'k just on a phyrexian mana kick, but Marrow Shards could help some poorer, low to the ground matchups. (Or I'm just still thinking about getting blown out by goblins today. So fast!) Surgical is also a great card and I know I saw it mentioned in here semi-recently.
Yup, that was it. My apologies. That name has been hard to remember for me for some reason. I was calling it Lightning Chainer and Lightning Caller Friday and Saturday. Finally figured it out and then mess it up here.
That's gotta be it. Man, if he was a 3/4 I might give him a try. Looks more like a lightning rod at 3/3 though.. and you just 2-for-1'ed yourself. That is almost a card, imo
So , I get it, but Siege-Gang would just pop back and you would have three new goblins. And ideally by t4 to have a chalice on 1 to protect him from the majority of common, cheap removal. He could champion any number ofgoblin tokens, act as pseudo-protection and blink. It's versatile. And unless you are championing a token, it can't really get you 2-for-1'd unless you only have one creature in play and they bolt it, leaving you nothing to sac upon resolution of the champion trigger, or you champion a token and then they kill the Crafter, if I understand the mechanic correctly. Though I am sure that series of interactions plays out that way relatively often.
Trashmaster forces them to spend at least one removal on him before they could bolt the Crafter. I could see a reasonable curve of Rabblemaster, Trashmaster, Siege-Gang, toss a goblin, Crafter Championing Siege-Gang. I mean, we have to have dreams, right? I ordered a playset of Crafters and 2 Trashmasters, so I plan to test it. I think it might be fun and present a faster clock than what I feel I have. Trashmaster also lets us open the gates by removing Bridge.
Honestly, outside of the lock pieces I feel like we can do whatever with this deck and it has game. Prob something like this once Core 19 is legal:
So, guys, at FNM I went up against goblins and it gave me some ideas, specifically the use of Siege-Gang Commander (which I know has been done both recently and in the past) alongside Lightning Crafter. Championing a Siege-Gang Commander to prevent us to losing from board wipes seems like a solid play. 3 damage per turn is also a much faster/cheaper than our normal "behind the bridge" role players, but not repeatable if the option is available. But if we have another Siege-Gang Commander in play, we can always chuck the Lightning Crafter for an extra 2. You could also champion a Goblin Chainwhirler in games against plenty of x/1s to get multiple clears. Don't forget, Lightning Crafter can kill itself to work as a pseudo-blink spell.
I gave Collective Defiance a whirl on Friday and liked it more than I hated it. I must say, compared to the normal players, the versatility was a welcomed thing. I used every mode at least once and often went with two modes to kill a creature and go face. I don't think it is a 4-of, but 3 seems like a good number. I was running 4 on Friday, but I felt like I was drawing it a little too frequently for me to really make use of it. Granted, it is never "air," unlike Abrade can be in the late game.
I also regained my respect for Walking Ballista, as I went back to 2 in the MB. Even as a 2-cost removal of a x/1, it was almost always because I needed to deal with a threat immediately. In those cases, I likely would have taken the turn off to deal with it via Abrade anyways. I did pack 1 MB Abrade, but it was a non-issue throughout the night--I suppose I got lucky, to some extent.
So, I am thinking +4 Crafter, +2-Siege-Gang Commanders, +1 Goblin Trashmaster, +3 Collective Defiance. I'll then move the Ballistas and Hazoret to the side and toss a SB option Trashmaster there, as well. I know early artifact removal can be helpful, but I think with a bit more aggression, we can afford to hold off on until we draw a Trashmaster. I might still pack Shattering Spree/Abrade, though. I have a lot to figure out regarding the sideboard. I want to diversify the sweepers, include a Chainwhiler (or two), but also keep our Eidolons/Scab-Clans. I was running to Glorybringers in the side, so they are in a flex spot.
Anyone else thinking about going more goblin heavy come the official release of Core 19?
Hey, mountaineers. I've been grinding out standard with mono-red since the local meta is super vulnerable to it and I can clean up to get some store credit with little effort. It would seem the universe has decided Red and I have a thing. Not only in all three major formats of MTG, but also at stoplights! Glorious red lights, reminding me of what I do to many of my opponents when I drop a T1 Moon.
I've been reading and brewing, though. I really like the idea of Bridgeless Dragons. Sarkhan and Demanding Dragon look super fun together. I'll for sure be trying them in Standard and Modern.
Another card I am excited to try out in this deck is Dismissive Pyromancer. I know people aren't super high on rummaging effects, but if we are sitting behind a bridge passed T5 we can rummage and cast whatever we draw (assuming you exclude dragons from your 75). Additionally, he can always shoot down a <4-toughness bothersome creature. Seems decent to me.
I am also about to finish gathering the cards I would need to try the aftifact heavy version of Pyro-Prison, too. My list is pretty well settled on, but I hate swapping cards from deck to deck. I did think about trying it with a single KCI in the main and a single Banefire...maybe even 2. Figure I might as well get extra janky. With all the artifacts it runs, would it be so inconceivable to hit x=20 if you have KCI on the field? I might try some Invertors' Fairs to help search up what I need (assuming Blood Moon isnt already in play).
3-0-1 last night. I played against Storm, Zoo, Sultai Delver/Delirium, and drew the last round to split prizes. Pretty typical games. I didn't see Karn, but Trinisphere continues to impress me in the main. Having an extra way to slow down the early game has paid dividends against nearly every kind of deck. P&K did tons of work. I didn't side Chsinwhirler in.
I did crush a couple students today, but chalice and ensnaring bridge aren't very nice against budget decks. However, blood moon is super ineffective. Good times still.
I will be playing legacy tonight with Dragon Stompy, but am going to a 1K tomorrow and am bringing Pyro Prison. We'll see how she plays against stiffer competition.
Russ, I actually like Karn. You don't have to tick him up, so his draw doesn't hurt. With enough artifacts in the list, the constructs turn into adequate blockers if a bridge isn't out. If a bridge is out, and you don't run 5 drops, every turn after the first turns into a draw engine to find our bombs...something the deck doesn't really have outside of Chandra, but I see her go face more than cast. You can use him strategically, like not drawing with him if you already drew a land for turn. Otherwise, he digs, and fuels both P&K and Hazoret abilities. Hell, P&K can always clear a bridge to make way for constructs. He also acts as a means to battle through heavy removal or sweepers. At worst, he eats removal or a counterspell, either case can swing the game in your favor if you have a better finisher.
That said, I think his inclusion requires both a minor up-tick in artifact count and something to take advantage of his "ultimate." I think Aether Grid would be good in a Karn-based list.
I also think you're understating his utility in Standard. In fact, i would argue his versatility is his greatest asset. His place in vehicle lists is undeniable. His ubiquity speaks to his utility.
I have only gotten a couple games in where he hit in Legacy, but he didn't matter too much as I was already behind in the game.
Personally, I like Karn and have been running two, basically, since Dominaria dropped. I've been tracking my brain to see how I would replace him and trinisphere in my main, but they have given me a reason to keep them in each week.
Though, I was thinking of possibly trying to run Rekindling Phoenix in the deck. A repeatable blocker with moderate power could have potential in mid-rangy games where you know artifact hate is coming.
So after a rough couple of outings I got a 4-1 finish tonight.
I went back to 5 rituals and 21 lands. I like the way it runs a lot better. The sneaky speed catches a lot of people off guard. I played against Ponza twice tonight and T1 Rabblemaster crushed them both times it happened. Otherwise, I have been running 2 Trinisphere, 2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar, and 2 Karn, Scion of Urza. I played a janky Goblin Storm Deck round 3. Game 2 I kept a no lander on the draw. My hand was: Chandra, Karn, 3 SSG, and 2 Rituals. Draw a mountain. T1 Chandra. T2, Karn. It was nuts and not only game I had Chandra on t1, either. T1 Chandra into any 3 or possible 4 drop with the nuts is just insane, which is why I think 5 ritual effects and 21 lands is right for me. Trinisphere has been great at slowing opponents down a couple turns, which allows us time to get our lock ready. I like them more than some of the other options. I didn't feel any negative effects from the lack of a maindeck boardwipe, so I am keeping them out for the time being.
I also played against some Thopter foundry deck and just assembled the right lock pieces g2 and g3 after he went infinite g1. My loss was to a weird Four Color Eldrazi deck. Both games i mulled to 5, kept a two land hand, and proceeded to flood out hard while also getting my hand picked apart. It was pretty miserable, but it happens.
I really like my mainboard, but my sideboard is still getting toyed with. I've peen especially high on P&K since putting in the two Karns and Trinispheres. Clogging up the board is always a plus. Tossing my own artifacts won me multiple games today. I even got down a t1 P&K tonight and the thopters did work while i had brige in play. Eventually tossing the bridge for the W felt nice. Hazoret seems more situational and can sometimes just be a dead 4 drop if you don't have the mana to empty your hand quickly. But when she is good, watch out. I was running 0 P&K and 2 Hazoret, but I like the 2:1 ratio now with the option to bring in a 2nd Hazoret from the side. Ramunap Ruins fits fine. I agree with everyone who promotes them as a 4 of. They don't hurt us nearly as often as they help. Fwiw, Russ, they havent hurt me and won me a game tonight.
I have grafdigger's in the side, but nobody at my meta gives me a reason to bring it in aside from one storm player on Wed nights. I keep it in for respect to the overall meta, but I might start taking it out for some Scab-Clans because it sounds fun and still messes with storm. Not too worried about CoCo from week to week. I also havent seen much Mardu around, so not sold on Chailwhirler entirely. I've drawn it and not had a reason to play it over something else those turns. I also havent found Spellskite super useful as of late. I guess I keep them in because I dont know anything better to replace them with, but I might just try to add some redundancy to the side.
I was thinking I may want some sort of one of X spell in the 75. Something to use mid-late game to go face or take out a creature. Maybe something like Devil's Play. Upside is it has flashback so we can go face twice if things go late.
I keep shattering spree in to get around my own chalice if i have to. The rest of it has been good, so I dont plan to mess with any of that.
It's funny, about a week ago I ordered some stuff off TCGplayer and I had to get 50 cents worth of cards to make the purchase and the only thing the seller had that seemed interesting was Hanweir Garrison. I picked two up and have them on my desk as a possible card to put in. I think i saw a legacy list that ran two of them, but skipped the meld land. I'm happy to see it suggested here. That might be the push I need to try them in the side and bring them in when I need to be aggressive. 6 Rabble/Rabble-like Creatures seems like it could get filthy.
People keep asking me why I dont play Damping Sphere, but I still think it is bad for us. It really doesnt help us on t2. If anything, it hurts me early, so I just avoid it all together and play something that has more on an impact in the early game.
Idk, Imight leave it untouched. My opponents played some janky stuff, so it is hard to take tonight as any kind of serious indicator, but it does make me wonder... If anything I probably run something similar to BludLust with some minor tweaks. Maybe no Koth and run either 2 Garrison, 2 Scab-Clan, or 2 Devil's Play and swap an Eidolon for Shattering Spree. I will just swap the 2s out over the next three events and see how I like them.
Between the Modern and Legacy versions of this deck, I have invested enough to not want to pivot to a deck that functions on Mox Opal. Agreed it is interesting, though. I do have a Jaya's I have been thinking about cutting, and Aether Grid with Karn seems like a sweet plan for incidental damage over time. Maybe I will try it out tomorrow at FNM.
How was the Jaya's Immolating Fire? I was thinking about it since Chandra sticks around so much generally.
Didnt actually play with it. This is the list I am bringing friday. I edited and explained the changes and why I made them. I think it has potential with the 8 legendaries and all the card draw.
I actually had two chainwhirler in, but they never helped me clear the board in any meaningful way. I like them, but idk where to slot them in. They were in place of P&K and Jaya...yeah, no mainboard board wipes--chainwhiler sort of acts as two--but it didnt hurt me. If anything I put them in I would swap them with trinisphere, but I like trinisphere because it works like a 5-6 moon for decks that function on low cost spells. It wasnt wonderful, never hurt me, and my opponents had differing opinions. Tron player said it was worse for him than moon. UW Control said it was the least of his concerns. I'll try again on Friday and track if I would rather have Chainwhirler in most matchups. I think maybe I put a couple in the board in place of Kozilek's and Hazoret/Walking Ballista if I find I want them. I guess they get brought in during similar matchups.
Karn, Hazoret and Chandra on the board is just so OP. I figure with Karn in the deck, P&K deserves another shot.
After a 2-2 run tonight, i really dislike Damping Sphere...i got stuck on three lands with multiple rituals in hand that essentially did nothing, and then i got stuck with Hazoret in my hand, too. So, either I just misplayed and should have held it against mono-blue tron, or i got unlucky by not drawing lands. I would have won had i Gotten hazoret down on t3 and started attacking t4...he missed a couple land drops (i had three blood moons in play just to keep my handsize down) and hit 6 very late, and then two wurmcoils and a mindslaver took over.
Initially I was going to try running 4 of the chainwhirling goblin, but decided to split it with The First Eruption (I pulled 2 out of my prerelease pack and had them on-hand). It as a turn t1-t3 play is similar to chainwhirler the initial turn it comes in. It ramps us the next turn (t2-3 Chandra/Hazoret/PnK/etc.) and then if things seem out of hand (Humans w/o a bridge), you can sac a mountain and wipe the majority of the board...yeah, it hurts your creatures, too, but as Bob said, "greatness, at any cost." It felt solid when I was trying it out. If anyone is just messing around and testing, try it out and see how you feel about it. It may turn out that chainwhirler and more tradition pieces are better, but for now it feels worth testing.
I'm also curious if we have ever considered Aether Vial as a means of getting around our own chalice. Maybe as a 1-of, on the off chance we have a chalice on three and need to get a quick kill. I dont normally like "off-chance" includes, but if we are running a high 3-drop count, it might be something to consider...and definitely something to consider if we want to take on a potential goblin-lock deck with skirk prospector and other potential littles.
Anyways, to make a long story short, I am back on Pyro. I read Marulo's post and it had me thinking about how I have my deck tooled, currently. I agree with Caligula in regards to Karn and Coating...lights out. Coating and Abrade...lights out. T1 - Coating, T2-Abrade a land? Sure, why not?! I upped my MB coun to 3, and dropped Bridge to 2. I also took the Angers out for the time being and am testing MD Molten Rain as a 2-of. I like being able to flex an otherwise useless ritual into Molten Rain. Other fun things... T1 Chandra into Coating, T2 Karn into "sorry, you're gonna be stuck on 1 land for the game." Good times. Also, the best part is it wrecks Tron, which used to be absolutely miserable.
That was working pretty good up until about today...seems everyone on MTGO turned into 8-rack players overnight. Almost has me considering putting 2 Leyline of Sanctity in the side a la Lantern.
Scoop out of frustration? But probably Tezzeret's ultimate. It can def durdle around until you find it. The prison looks pretty gross.
Indeed. I want more than anything to fit him in.
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Glorybringer
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Enchantment
4 Blood Moon
Land
15 Mountain
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Scavenger Grounds
3 Ramunap Ruins
4 Chalice of the Void
Instant
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
2 Abrade
Sorcery
1 Sweltering Suns
Planeswalker
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Sarkhan, Fireblood
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Damping Matrix
3 Norn's Annex
1 Torpor Orb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Shattering Spree
1 Anger of the Gods
I like to think it embodies the Pyro Prison mentality, just a bit experimental. As stated above, one of my concerns is combining bridge with dragons. I was digging around on Gatherer and noticed some spice in Norn's Annex. Now, Ensnaring Bridge this is not, but it does force your opponent to make some interesting decisions, especially if they go wide/small. We will never have to worry about not being able to get it down because of an odd chalice on 3. We can cast it without the white, and could potentially be out on t1, but it costs you 4 life. I'm not sure that is the worst thing when you can beat face with big ol' dragons and punish an aggro opponent in the meantime. I like the dragon selection to boost Sarkhan's value outside of filtering. Thundermaw is great for pushing through a large chunk. Chandra does what she does, and the rest is pretty routine. Not sure if the 5-drop count is too high, but I feel it might be. I went up to 22 land, but maybe I drop a glorybringer. If so, potentially play an additional sweeper to keep the board clear while I wait to drop beaters. Or go up a ritual to more consistently drop dragons on t2/3/4. Not sure if that is a great call, though, as I'd only have 11 dragons in the deck then. Plus, most t1/2 should be dedicated to setting up early lock pieces. In that regard, they do help. Not sure which provides more benefit, tbh. I might change it up and sway towards what Ray is doing in the MB and just balls-out ramp into things.
The sideboard is a little up-in-the-air, atm. I figure Scab-clan and Eidolon are good against decks that they are now and let us get small if we need to. Rabblemaster will be missed, but we could always toss in the whole fam to the side and run them out game 2, and play it like we normally play our game 1. That said, I would probably be more inclined to venture Ray's way and toolbox it out.
Mostly, I just want to jam dragons and play chalice or blood moon on t1. Anyone got any thoughts or experiences so far?
Also, as for the traditional Pyro Prison, I have been thinking about what has really blown me out lately, and it is almost always a chalice/bridge getting blown up. I tried welding jar a while back, but didnt like it. Creatures dying when I am trying to race is also the worst. Infect uses Apostle's Blessing to prevent the blowout. The "target artifact" clause has me thinking... It's also pretty spicy. Granted, I suppose Skellskite is more effective.
Maybe I'k just on a phyrexian mana kick, but Marrow Shards could help some poorer, low to the ground matchups. (Or I'm just still thinking about getting blown out by goblins today. So fast!) Surgical is also a great card and I know I saw it mentioned in here semi-recently.
Yup, that was it. My apologies. That name has been hard to remember for me for some reason. I was calling it Lightning Chainer and Lightning Caller Friday and Saturday. Finally figured it out and then mess it up here.
So , I get it, but Siege-Gang would just pop back and you would have three new goblins. And ideally by t4 to have a chalice on 1 to protect him from the majority of common, cheap removal. He could champion any number ofgoblin tokens, act as pseudo-protection and blink. It's versatile. And unless you are championing a token, it can't really get you 2-for-1'd unless you only have one creature in play and they bolt it, leaving you nothing to sac upon resolution of the champion trigger, or you champion a token and then they kill the Crafter, if I understand the mechanic correctly. Though I am sure that series of interactions plays out that way relatively often.
Trashmaster forces them to spend at least one removal on him before they could bolt the Crafter. I could see a reasonable curve of Rabblemaster, Trashmaster, Siege-Gang, toss a goblin, Crafter Championing Siege-Gang. I mean, we have to have dreams, right? I ordered a playset of Crafters and 2 Trashmasters, so I plan to test it. I think it might be fun and present a faster clock than what I feel I have. Trashmaster also lets us open the gates by removing Bridge.
Honestly, outside of the lock pieces I feel like we can do whatever with this deck and it has game. Prob something like this once Core 19 is legal:
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Lightning Crafter
2 Goblin Trashmaster
Enchantment
4 Blood Moon
Land
15 Mountain
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Scavenger Grounds
2 Ramunap Ruins
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
Instant
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
Sorcery
2 Collective Defiance
Planeswalker
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Goblin Chainwhirler
2 Glorybringer
1 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Torpor Orb
1 Damping Matrix
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Shattering Spree
1 Anger of the Gods
I gave Collective Defiance a whirl on Friday and liked it more than I hated it. I must say, compared to the normal players, the versatility was a welcomed thing. I used every mode at least once and often went with two modes to kill a creature and go face. I don't think it is a 4-of, but 3 seems like a good number. I was running 4 on Friday, but I felt like I was drawing it a little too frequently for me to really make use of it. Granted, it is never "air," unlike Abrade can be in the late game.
I also regained my respect for Walking Ballista, as I went back to 2 in the MB. Even as a 2-cost removal of a x/1, it was almost always because I needed to deal with a threat immediately. In those cases, I likely would have taken the turn off to deal with it via Abrade anyways. I did pack 1 MB Abrade, but it was a non-issue throughout the night--I suppose I got lucky, to some extent.
So, I am thinking +4 Crafter, +2-Siege-Gang Commanders, +1 Goblin Trashmaster, +3 Collective Defiance. I'll then move the Ballistas and Hazoret to the side and toss a SB option Trashmaster there, as well. I know early artifact removal can be helpful, but I think with a bit more aggression, we can afford to hold off on until we draw a Trashmaster. I might still pack Shattering Spree/Abrade, though. I have a lot to figure out regarding the sideboard. I want to diversify the sweepers, include a Chainwhiler (or two), but also keep our Eidolons/Scab-Clans. I was running to Glorybringers in the side, so they are in a flex spot.
Anyone else thinking about going more goblin heavy come the official release of Core 19?
I've been reading and brewing, though. I really like the idea of Bridgeless Dragons. Sarkhan and Demanding Dragon look super fun together. I'll for sure be trying them in Standard and Modern.
Another card I am excited to try out in this deck is Dismissive Pyromancer. I know people aren't super high on rummaging effects, but if we are sitting behind a bridge passed T5 we can rummage and cast whatever we draw (assuming you exclude dragons from your 75). Additionally, he can always shoot down a <4-toughness bothersome creature. Seems decent to me.
I am also about to finish gathering the cards I would need to try the aftifact heavy version of Pyro-Prison, too. My list is pretty well settled on, but I hate swapping cards from deck to deck. I did think about trying it with a single KCI in the main and a single Banefire...maybe even 2. Figure I might as well get extra janky. With all the artifacts it runs, would it be so inconceivable to hit x=20 if you have KCI on the field? I might try some Invertors' Fairs to help search up what I need (assuming Blood Moon isnt already in play).
Anyways, I'm out. Good luck, mountainfolk.
I did crush a couple students today, but chalice and ensnaring bridge aren't very nice against budget decks. However, blood moon is super ineffective. Good times still.
I will be playing legacy tonight with Dragon Stompy, but am going to a 1K tomorrow and am bringing Pyro Prison. We'll see how she plays against stiffer competition.
That said, I think his inclusion requires both a minor up-tick in artifact count and something to take advantage of his "ultimate." I think Aether Grid would be good in a Karn-based list.
I also think you're understating his utility in Standard. In fact, i would argue his versatility is his greatest asset. His place in vehicle lists is undeniable. His ubiquity speaks to his utility.
I have only gotten a couple games in where he hit in Legacy, but he didn't matter too much as I was already behind in the game.
Personally, I like Karn and have been running two, basically, since Dominaria dropped. I've been tracking my brain to see how I would replace him and trinisphere in my main, but they have given me a reason to keep them in each week.
Though, I was thinking of possibly trying to run Rekindling Phoenix in the deck. A repeatable blocker with moderate power could have potential in mid-rangy games where you know artifact hate is coming.
I went back to 5 rituals and 21 lands. I like the way it runs a lot better. The sneaky speed catches a lot of people off guard. I played against Ponza twice tonight and T1 Rabblemaster crushed them both times it happened. Otherwise, I have been running 2 Trinisphere, 2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar, and 2 Karn, Scion of Urza. I played a janky Goblin Storm Deck round 3. Game 2 I kept a no lander on the draw. My hand was: Chandra, Karn, 3 SSG, and 2 Rituals. Draw a mountain. T1 Chandra. T2, Karn. It was nuts and not only game I had Chandra on t1, either. T1 Chandra into any 3 or possible 4 drop with the nuts is just insane, which is why I think 5 ritual effects and 21 lands is right for me. Trinisphere has been great at slowing opponents down a couple turns, which allows us time to get our lock ready. I like them more than some of the other options. I didn't feel any negative effects from the lack of a maindeck boardwipe, so I am keeping them out for the time being.
I also played against some Thopter foundry deck and just assembled the right lock pieces g2 and g3 after he went infinite g1. My loss was to a weird Four Color Eldrazi deck. Both games i mulled to 5, kept a two land hand, and proceeded to flood out hard while also getting my hand picked apart. It was pretty miserable, but it happens.
I really like my mainboard, but my sideboard is still getting toyed with. I've peen especially high on P&K since putting in the two Karns and Trinispheres. Clogging up the board is always a plus. Tossing my own artifacts won me multiple games today. I even got down a t1 P&K tonight and the thopters did work while i had brige in play. Eventually tossing the bridge for the W felt nice. Hazoret seems more situational and can sometimes just be a dead 4 drop if you don't have the mana to empty your hand quickly. But when she is good, watch out. I was running 0 P&K and 2 Hazoret, but I like the 2:1 ratio now with the option to bring in a 2nd Hazoret from the side. Ramunap Ruins fits fine. I agree with everyone who promotes them as a 4 of. They don't hurt us nearly as often as they help. Fwiw, Russ, they havent hurt me and won me a game tonight.
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Glorybringer
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Enchantment
4 Blood Moon
Land
15 Mountain
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Scavenger Grounds
3 Ramunap Ruins
4 Chalice of the Void
Instant
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
2 Abrade
Sorcery
1 Sweltering Suns
Planeswalker
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Sarkhan, Fireblood
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Damping Matrix
3 Norn's Annex
1 Torpor Orb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Shattering Spree
1 Anger of the Gods
I have grafdigger's in the side, but nobody at my meta gives me a reason to bring it in aside from one storm player on Wed nights. I keep it in for respect to the overall meta, but I might start taking it out for some Scab-Clans because it sounds fun and still messes with storm. Not too worried about CoCo from week to week. I also havent seen much Mardu around, so not sold on Chailwhirler entirely. I've drawn it and not had a reason to play it over something else those turns. I also havent found Spellskite super useful as of late. I guess I keep them in because I dont know anything better to replace them with, but I might just try to add some redundancy to the side.
I was thinking I may want some sort of one of X spell in the 75. Something to use mid-late game to go face or take out a creature. Maybe something like Devil's Play. Upside is it has flashback so we can go face twice if things go late.
I keep shattering spree in to get around my own chalice if i have to. The rest of it has been good, so I dont plan to mess with any of that.
It's funny, about a week ago I ordered some stuff off TCGplayer and I had to get 50 cents worth of cards to make the purchase and the only thing the seller had that seemed interesting was Hanweir Garrison. I picked two up and have them on my desk as a possible card to put in. I think i saw a legacy list that ran two of them, but skipped the meld land. I'm happy to see it suggested here. That might be the push I need to try them in the side and bring them in when I need to be aggressive. 6 Rabble/Rabble-like Creatures seems like it could get filthy.
People keep asking me why I dont play Damping Sphere, but I still think it is bad for us. It really doesnt help us on t2. If anything, it hurts me early, so I just avoid it all together and play something that has more on an impact in the early game.
Idk, Imight leave it untouched. My opponents played some janky stuff, so it is hard to take tonight as any kind of serious indicator, but it does make me wonder... If anything I probably run something similar to BludLust with some minor tweaks. Maybe no Koth and run either 2 Garrison, 2 Scab-Clan, or 2 Devil's Play and swap an Eidolon for Shattering Spree. I will just swap the 2s out over the next three events and see how I like them.
Didnt actually play with it. This is the list I am bringing friday. I edited and explained the changes and why I made them. I think it has potential with the 8 legendaries and all the card draw.
This is what I am currently running,
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Glorybringer
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Enchantment
4 Blood Moon
Land
15 Mountain
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Scavenger Grounds
3 Ramunap Ruins
4 Chalice of the Void
Instant
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
2 Abrade
Sorcery
1 Sweltering Suns
Planeswalker
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Sarkhan, Fireblood
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Damping Matrix
3 Norn's Annex
1 Torpor Orb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Shattering Spree
1 Anger of the Gods
I actually had two chainwhirler in, but they never helped me clear the board in any meaningful way. I like them, but idk where to slot them in. They were in place of P&K and Jaya...yeah, no mainboard board wipes--chainwhiler sort of acts as two--but it didnt hurt me. If anything I put them in I would swap them with trinisphere, but I like trinisphere because it works like a 5-6 moon for decks that function on low cost spells. It wasnt wonderful, never hurt me, and my opponents had differing opinions. Tron player said it was worse for him than moon. UW Control said it was the least of his concerns. I'll try again on Friday and track if I would rather have Chainwhirler in most matchups. I think maybe I put a couple in the board in place of Kozilek's and Hazoret/Walking Ballista if I find I want them. I guess they get brought in during similar matchups.
Karn, Hazoret and Chandra on the board is just so OP. I figure with Karn in the deck, P&K deserves another shot.
I'm also curious if we have ever considered Aether Vial as a means of getting around our own chalice. Maybe as a 1-of, on the off chance we have a chalice on three and need to get a quick kill. I dont normally like "off-chance" includes, but if we are running a high 3-drop count, it might be something to consider...and definitely something to consider if we want to take on a potential goblin-lock deck with skirk prospector and other potential littles.