For some reason all cards that say "play with the top card of your library revealed" now(as of 4/15/2013) have a ruling that says "4/15/2013: If the top card of your library is a land, you can play it if you could play a land."
Is this an error? I do not see this making too much sense.
If we're talking about copying stuff that's copying stuff....
Let's say I have an Emeria Angel and one bird token it produced.
I play Mirrorweave on my angel and the token copies it.
Then... I go ahead and cast Sundering Growth targeting any artifact my oponent controls and then populate copying the token....
what now?
When the new token comes into play, he'll be an Emeria Angel right?
but at the end of turn.... what happens? does it revert to be a Bird token or remain being that Emeria Angel forever?
I'm guessing it would be an Angel forever... but some confirmation would be nice.
Too complicated and mediocre. I like what I suggested.
Simple but effective burn and destruction.
Shock. Bolt. Stone Rain.
Maybe... I was just trying something totally different of what's been tried.... lol.
Also, I'd love to see a land destruction Walker... I suggested that in the very start of this thread... lol, but I don't really think they're doing it unfortunately.
I just want a good, cheap, excitingly powerful card that's not JTMS tier, but powerful in constructed. I prefer simple, powerful effects over complicated mediocre ones.
Powerful but not broken because it dies to bolt the turn it's played and has to kill itself to stone rain immediately.
I guess the second and third abilities are not sinergistic...
if you're destroying lands already, why would you blow everything away?
still, I'd love to see a walker with those two first abilities...
but wizards seems to hate efficient land destruction these days....
and with a CC of 3, this is almost strictly better than stone rain....
and we've not seen unrestricted land destruction that efficient for YEARS now.
Even though this is probably one of the few solutions that could make a red walker actually playable without bleeding the color pie too much, I guess it's not likely we will see an ability like this.
How about....
Chandra, the new and weird walker. 2RR
-1: sacrifice a creature, ~ deals damage to target creature or player equal to sacrificed creature power.
-1: ~ deals 2 damage to target creature, you gain control of it until the end of turn, untap it, it gains haste.
-3: do both first and second abilities.
4 starting loyalty.
dunno if it's balanced this way....
but it's very versatile and fun.
it removes small and utility creatures....
it threatens big creatures
it gives haste to your big dudes or leaves them up to block after they attacked.
it's a repeatable fling for some turns
it's a entwined grab the reins against big targets.
It does not have any + abilities, in flavor this is very red... as it's carefree and reckless.
How about this?
Chandra, Battle Diva :symr::symr::2mana:
+1 1 Damage to all creatures
0 Chandra, Battle Diva turns into a 3/3 creature with haste, first strike and hexproof
-X X damage to target opponent and all his creatures
Loyality 4
Chandra seems a lone planeswalker that don't enjoy giving emblems to your creatures, right? Let's make her shine like a prime star of a MTG annual pack
this is a flame wave for 4....
with the added bonus of doing something else once in a while
even then it might be seen as unplayable. it could be played over 2 turns, yes, if it survives. but 2 mana for shock seems pretty bad. 2 mana for the possibility of shock and bolt over 2 turns, still seems pretty bad beyond standard constructed. i'd rather just play a shock and leave up a bolt in hand that turn, and play other things.
Yeah... this might not be enough.... but that's what makes red walkers so hard to design.
a little bit more power and it's broken....
this amount of power and it's unplayable.... hahah
but i think you're on the right track that NO one seems to understand.
Mono-red walkers are just not good for red centered decks. the things that you guys want put on a chandra are actually not good in a planeswalker, especially red. mono-red themes are looking for cheap effective singular spells to push an advantage.
a planeswalker is an expensive permanent that is great if unchecked over time.
a planeswalker also needs to be able to protect itself, and the person playing the walker also needs to protect it to keep it being useful. red decks are aggressive decks not typically concerned with playing defensively. that's the biggest thing that makes walkers bad in red. its not that the walkers are unplayable, its that the deck-style cannot FIT a 3-4 mana permanent that may only last a single turn to have simply dealt 3 damage to a creature or player, or have been some sort of looting ability, that generally won't have any other synergy with the rest of the board.
blue planeswalkers seem really good not because they're pushed. they're good because the deck archetypes that they fit in are setup to actually utilize a planeswalker fully.
even take the 2 and 3 color decks with red in them. they're not the same type of decks as mono-red decks (other than RB). they call for different midrange or controlish themes where a walker can be protected. but they call for different types of walkers that have better synergy with the rest of the deck, and a mono-red themed walker doesn't fit there. XUR decks will always call for something like Ral, because he fits the needs and they can protect them. XGR will always call for domri or garruk, because their abilities have synergy with the rest of the deck, and they can protect them.
Thats why chandras have seemed bad. not because they've been bad, but because they've always made her a mono-red themed walker, where mono-red should not be playing walkers. tibalt was their best attempt at that by making him 2 mana, but his utility was just to low.
I guess the main problem with the red walkers is the "Color matters" theme.
why couldn't Koth of the Hammer transform ANY LAND into a 4/4 red creature?
all his abilities should count lands instead of mountains... and MAYBE he would see lots of play...
same could be said about Chandra Ablaze
Why couldn't she deal 4 damage if I discarded ANYTHING?
Why just the red instants and sorceries are cast by her ultimate?
make it cast any color and MAYBE Chandra Ablaze would have a home.
Monored would like a very cheap walker...
Tibalt gets close with it's 2 mana cost....
but monored wants a Walker that costs 2 and DEALS DAMAGE as soon as it enters the battlefield.
make it a walker with CMC of 2....
1 starting loyalty
+1 shock
-3 Lightning bolt.
you could drop qalsi to 1 main deck, drop an angel or two, to add 4x GSZ with quirion ranger and replace a land with a dryad arbor, also maybe cutting 1xlotus cobra for a teeg
and as long as you are adding a GSZ, you might also consider adding a sylvan safekeeper or two, if you need more help with graveyards, consider adding a scavenging ooze as well
the angels is what makes the deck to explode....
in the end, I'll maybe take mirrorweave out, and throw 4 Berserk in their place... and then, replace the Angels with something else...
then the deck will kill REALLY fast... but will be lame and boring... lol
The whole point of this deck originally was to be a Mirrorweave deck... but as it evolves, I guess it becomes less and less necessary...
I guess I can still useit in a slower version on kitchen tables and multiplayer tables....
Playing admonition angel then weaving it and playing a fetch is TOO AWESOME to pass.... lol
will not see any competitive legacy play as it's probably too slow....
but is too much fun in kitchen table or multiplayer games... ahah
cascade is pretty bad when it can hit almost every card in your deck.... it gets way too random.
that said, I like the second version way more.
if you draw Progenitus you'll depend on Brainstorm to put it on your deck again....
I guess the deck is pretty risky....
you're betting it all on that Natural Order....
if you cannot resolve that, you're done....
I feel you need some kind of plan B....
What about Quirion Ranger? It allows you to make very consistent landdrops, and a combination of 1 mana dork, 1 land and ranger produce 4 mana. That manadork can even be Dryad Arbor, giving you a potential infinite chump blocker as well. All is fetchable with a Zenith as well, while accelerating.
that's actually a pretty good idea....
I could untap hierarch for extra mana or knight for extra crazyness....
just don't know in place of what it would enter.... but it's a very poweful asset, thank you....
Ok, now the deck has several ways to attack with a 5/6 Steppe Lynx in the second turn....
Or it can drop a Emeria angel on turn 2
or you can have a quite big Reliquary Knight on turn 3....
Mirrorweave on Steppe Lynx + 1 land on the table makes your attack almighty as they won't be able to deal any damage on block most of time...
Explorations + Wasteland + Crucible is awesome....
the deck is much faster now....
I guess it's a lot more competitive now....
Just have to think about a sideboard and try it somehow.
surely it's a mistake....
Redirect does not target the creature, it just targets the Swords to plowshares
and Geist of Saint Traft is a valid target to a Swords to plowshares cast by its controller....
I may be wrong, but I guess it's fine.
EDIT: Super nath'd... LOL!
Guessing doesn't help anybody, even if your guess happens to be correct. Warning issued. ~ Hendrik
Let's say I have an Emeria Angel and one bird token it produced.
I play Mirrorweave on my angel and the token copies it.
Then... I go ahead and cast Sundering Growth targeting any artifact my oponent controls and then populate copying the token....
what now?
When the new token comes into play, he'll be an Emeria Angel right?
but at the end of turn.... what happens? does it revert to be a Bird token or remain being that Emeria Angel forever?
I'm guessing it would be an Angel forever... but some confirmation would be nice.
Maybe... I was just trying something totally different of what's been tried.... lol.
Also, I'd love to see a land destruction Walker... I suggested that in the very start of this thread... lol, but I don't really think they're doing it unfortunately.
I guess the second and third abilities are not sinergistic...
if you're destroying lands already, why would you blow everything away?
still, I'd love to see a walker with those two first abilities...
but wizards seems to hate efficient land destruction these days....
and with a CC of 3, this is almost strictly better than stone rain....
and we've not seen unrestricted land destruction that efficient for YEARS now.
Even though this is probably one of the few solutions that could make a red walker actually playable without bleeding the color pie too much, I guess it's not likely we will see an ability like this.
How about....
Chandra, the new and weird walker. 2RR
-1: sacrifice a creature, ~ deals damage to target creature or player equal to sacrificed creature power.
-1: ~ deals 2 damage to target creature, you gain control of it until the end of turn, untap it, it gains haste.
-3: do both first and second abilities.
4 starting loyalty.
dunno if it's balanced this way....
but it's very versatile and fun.
it removes small and utility creatures....
it threatens big creatures
it gives haste to your big dudes or leaves them up to block after they attacked.
it's a repeatable fling for some turns
it's a entwined grab the reins against big targets.
It does not have any + abilities, in flavor this is very red... as it's carefree and reckless.
I'd build around this walker if it was printed.
this is a flame wave for 4....
with the added bonus of doing something else once in a while
Yeah... this might not be enough.... but that's what makes red walkers so hard to design.
a little bit more power and it's broken....
this amount of power and it's unplayable.... hahah
I guess the main problem with the red walkers is the "Color matters" theme.
why couldn't Koth of the Hammer transform ANY LAND into a 4/4 red creature?
all his abilities should count lands instead of mountains... and MAYBE he would see lots of play...
same could be said about Chandra Ablaze
Why couldn't she deal 4 damage if I discarded ANYTHING?
Why just the red instants and sorceries are cast by her ultimate?
make it cast any color and MAYBE Chandra Ablaze would have a home.
Monored would like a very cheap walker...
Tibalt gets close with it's 2 mana cost....
but monored wants a Walker that costs 2 and DEALS DAMAGE as soon as it enters the battlefield.
make it a walker with CMC of 2....
1 starting loyalty
+1 shock
-3 Lightning bolt.
and nothing else could actually see play.
it just deals damage....
there's the "gain control of stuff until the end of turn" but this is not what we really need....
maybe if she has
+1 shock
-2 Pillage I doubt it.... Wizards will not print repeatable land destruction but a man can dream.
-X some super powerful ultimate.
Yeah, I understand... I may test this:
4x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
4x Savannah
4x Temple Garden
3x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Gavony Township
2x Emeria Angel
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Lotus Cobra
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Steppe Lynx
1x Quirion Ranger
1x Phantom Centaur
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Exploration
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Mirrorweave
I guess it's becoming more and more powerful each iteration....
with some tuning and good sideboard, may even become viable!
thanks for your help.
Yeah... this... a million times this.
Still, all of them are pretty relevant once they hit the table, pretty good cycle if you ask me.
the angels is what makes the deck to explode....
in the end, I'll maybe take mirrorweave out, and throw 4 Berserk in their place... and then, replace the Angels with something else...
then the deck will kill REALLY fast... but will be lame and boring... lol
The whole point of this deck originally was to be a Mirrorweave deck... but as it evolves, I guess it becomes less and less necessary...
I guess I can still useit in a slower version on kitchen tables and multiplayer tables....
Playing admonition angel then weaving it and playing a fetch is TOO AWESOME to pass.... lol
will not see any competitive legacy play as it's probably too slow....
but is too much fun in kitchen table or multiplayer games... ahah
that said, I like the second version way more.
if you draw Progenitus you'll depend on Brainstorm to put it on your deck again....
I guess the deck is pretty risky....
you're betting it all on that Natural Order....
if you cannot resolve that, you're done....
I feel you need some kind of plan B....
it's a pretty fun deck though
that's actually a pretty good idea....
I could untap hierarch for extra mana or knight for extra crazyness....
just don't know in place of what it would enter.... but it's a very poweful asset, thank you....
I'll test that.
made quite a revolution to make this deck faster and more competitive in Legacy, now it's without Wishes and more aggro than ever....
4x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Plains
4x Savannah
4x Temple Garden
3x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
4x Emeria Angel
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Lotus Cobra
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Exploration
4x Mirrorweave
Ok, now the deck has several ways to attack with a 5/6 Steppe Lynx in the second turn....
Or it can drop a Emeria angel on turn 2
or you can have a quite big Reliquary Knight on turn 3....
Mirrorweave on Steppe Lynx + 1 land on the table makes your attack almighty as they won't be able to deal any damage on block most of time...
Explorations + Wasteland + Crucible is awesome....
the deck is much faster now....
I guess it's a lot more competitive now....
Just have to think about a sideboard and try it somehow.
What do you guys think now?
better? good enough?
Thanks