My family and spouse don't really care I play it, even though they know my entire collection is worth more than US$10k they don't really know how much money I still spend on magic.
Lots of friends play magic with me so obviously, they love it, the ones that don't play (coworkers included) don't really care nor make fun of me. haha
I'm an engineer, so almost every coworker is a nerd just like me also, lol.
After a long winter, lots of playtesting, and a whole lotta money invested....
the deck is slowly becoming closer and closer to Stoneblade without betraying the original theme.
But now it has a LOT less dependance on the theme and is neting nice results.
Without further ado, there goes the current decklist...
the manabase is awesome now, City of Brass/Gemstone + Reflecting Pool will net any mana I need.
Shizo helps a lot when Daxos can't get through.
The Stoneblade heart of the deck absorbs a LOT of removals, and let the original win conditions shine.
It also can tutor the correct equipment for each situation, such as [CARD="Umezawa's Jitte"]something to deal with heavy aggro
[/CARD] or the sword with the correct protections to avoid blockers and removal, or a little monster to make for a very good early pressure.
Also, equiping a Sword of Fire and Ice to a High Priest of Penance and attacking with it is HILARIOUS. Sword of Feast and Famine probably should replace Sword of Body and Mind, I don't have one and it's not really necessary I guess.
Well, the deck is performing in kitchen tables, it's very fun to play now that there are a lot of threats to soak up the removal.
And if you enchant said Hypnotic Specter with Eldrazi Conscription you can have one player discard cards and one sac permanents if I'm not mistaken.
Yes, you can.
At the time you'll choose who discards the card (by choosing which head takes the damage) one of the players has already sacrificed everything they're forced by Anihilator.
The wurm has trample, though. Since the elf is tapped when damage is assigned, wouldn't that mean the wurm would have to deal 0 to the elf in order to assign lethal damage and so the remaining 3 would go straight to you?
No....
a creature that's tapped after it's been declared as blocker is still blocking normally even though it's tapped.
It will deal and receive damage normally regardless of it's "tap" status.
So if I have an Llanowar Elves and a Wall of Omens double-blocking an attacking Pelakka Wurm, my opponent could assign 1 damage to the elf, 4 damage to the wall, and the remaining 2 damage would trample over to me.
What would happen in the same scenario if I giant growth'd my arbor elf?
He swings. I block. He gets to then assign damage in the order as he pleases. He assigns damage as 1 to elf, 4 to wall, and the rest will trample over. I believe then priority passes to me.
Then I tap the elf for G and play Giant Growth, making my arbor elf a 4/4.
This is where I get confused. What happens to that 2 damage that was coming directly at me?
the confusion is that there's no damage distribution until the damage is actually done.
so, when he attacks and you multiblock, he'll choose the order and you'll be able to growth anything you want, then players pass priorities, and finally we get to the step where combat damage is actually done.
At this point, he'll assign combat damage, that will be done in the order he choose, assigning then 4 damage to the elf (he HAS to do lethal damage to it) and 3 damage to your wall of omens, which will survive.
Delay actually counters the spell and then exiles the card, it's a completely new object when it's cast again from suspend, thus, it follows the normal rules of casting X spells without paying the mana cost.
As I said, I'm aware of what causes you to deck out, I apologize for mistakenly posting that saying that it pertained to an empty library, meaning to say the obvious one instead. I was just curious if there was a not a special exception (like shuffling the graveyard into the library) made for this variant so as to avoid such a loss one-after-the-other.
In the end, as this isn't a sanctioned format you can make it what you want.
Anyway, you're building the deck to play it...
make it 500 cards and without any mill combo inside and there's no way you'd ever get to this issue.
Hi, I searched before posting, and while I found a reasonable number of question threads I cannot find an official thread on 2 headed giant, specifically a commander rule set. Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me.
Basic questions include sharing phases, card interactions, and deck design.
Everything that's in the official rulebook is as follows:
If you have specific questions, feel free to ask those.
810. Two-Headed Giant Variant
810.1. Two-Headed Giant games are played with two teams of two players each.
810.2. The Two-Headed Giant variant uses the shared team turns option. (See rule 805.)
810.3. Each team sits together on one side of the table. Each team decides the order in which its players sit.
810.4. Each team has a shared life total, which starts at 30 life.
810.5. With the exception of life total and poison counters, a team's resources (cards in hand, mana, and so on) are not shared in the Two-Headed Giant variant. Teammates may review each other's hands and discuss strategies at any time. Teammates can't manipulate each other's cards or permanents.
810.6. The team who plays first skips the draw step of its first turn.
810.7. The Two-Headed Giant variant uses different combat rules than other multiplayer variants.
810.7a Each team's creatures attack the other team as a group. During the combat phase, the active team is the attacking team and each player on the active team is an attacking player. Likewise, the nonactive team is the defending team and each player on the nonactive team is a defending player.
810.7b Any one-shot effect that refers to the "defending player" refers to one specific defending player, not to both of the defending players. The controller of the effect chooses which one the spell or ability refers to at the time the effect is applied. The same is true for any one-shot effect that refers to the "attacking player."
Any characteristic-defining ability that refers to the "defending player" refers to one specific defending player, not to both of the defending players. The controller of the object with the characteristic-defining ability chooses which one the ability refers to at the time the nonactive players become defending players.
All other cases in which the "defending player" is referred to actually refer to both defending players. If the reference involves a positive comparison (such as asking whether the defending player controls an Island) or a relative comparison (such as asking whether you control more creatures than the defending player), it gets only one answer. This answer is "yes" if either defending player in the comparison would return a "yes" answer if compared individually. If the reference involves a negative comparison (such as asking whether the defending player controls no black permanents), it also gets only one answer. This answer is "yes" if performing the analogous positive comparison would return a "no" answer. The same is true for all other cases that refer to the "attacking player."
810.7c As the declare attackers step begins, the active team declares attackers. If an effect of an object controlled by a defending player prohibits a creature from attacking him or her, that creature can't attack the defending team. The active team has one combined attack, and that set of attacking creatures must be legal as a whole. See rule 508.1.
Example: One player in a Two-Headed Giant game controls Teferi's Moat, which says "As Teferi's Moat enters the battlefield, choose a color." and "Creatures of the chosen color without flying can't attack you." Creatures of the chosen color without flying can't attack that player's team.
810.7d As the declare blockers step begins, the defending team declares blockers. Creatures controlled by the defending players can block any attacking creatures. The defending team has one combined block, and that set of blocking creatures must be legal as a whole. See rule 509.1.
Example: If an attacking creature has forestwalk and either player on the defending team controls a Forest, the creature can't be blocked.
810.7e Once blockers have been declared, for each attacking creature that's become blocked by multiple creatures, the active team announces the damage assignment order among the blocking creatures. Then, for each creature that's blocking multiple creatures, the defending team announces the damage assignment order among the attacking creatures.
810.7f As the combat damage step begins, the active team announces how each attacking creature will assign its combat damage. If an attacking creature would assign combat damage to the defending team, the active team chooses only one of the defending players for that creature to assign its combat damage to. Then the defending team announces how each blocking creature will assign its combat damage. See rule 510.1.
810.8. The Two-Headed Giant variant uses the normal rules for winning or losing the game (see rule 104), with the following additions and specifications.
810.8a Players win and lose the game only as a team, not as individuals. If either player on a team loses the game, the team loses the game. If either player on a team wins the game, the entire team wins the game. If an effect would prevent a player from winning the game, that player's team can't win the game. If an effect would prevent a player from losing the game, that player's team can't lose the game.
Example: In a Two-Headed Giant game, a player controls Transcendence, which reads, in part, "You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life." If that player's team's life total is 0 or less, that team doesn't lose the game.
Example: In a Two-Headed Giant game, a player attempts to draw a card while there are no cards in that player's library. That player loses the game, so that player's entire team loses the game.
Example: In a Two-Headed Giant game, a player controls Platinum Angel, which reads, "You can't lose the game and your opponents can't win the game." Neither that player nor his or her teammate can lose the game while Platinum Angel is on the battlefield, and neither player on the opposing team can win the game.
810.8b If a player concedes, his or her team leaves the game immediately. That team loses the game.
810.8c If a team's life total is 0 or less, the team loses the game. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)
810.8d If a team has fifteen or more poison counters, that team loses the game. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)
810.9. Damage, loss of life, and gaining life happen to each player individually. The result is applied to the team's shared life total.
Example: In a Two-Headed Giant game, a player casts Flame Rift, which reads, "Flame Rift deals 4 damage to each player." Each team is dealt a total of 8 damage.
810.9a If a cost or effect needs to know the value of an individual player's life total, that cost or effect uses the team's life total instead.
Example: In a Two-Headed Giant game, a player on a team that has 17 life is targeted by Beacon of Immortality, which reads, in part, "Double target player's life total." That player gains 17 life, so the team winds up at 34 life.
Example: In a Two-Headed Giant game, a player controls Test of Endurance, an enchantment that reads, "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 50 or more life, you win the game." At the beginning of that player's upkeep, the player's team wins the game if his or her team's life total is 50 or more.
Example: In a Two-Headed Giant game, a player on a team that has 11 life controls Lurking Evil, an enchantment that reads, "Pay half your life, rounded up: Lurking Evil becomes a 4/4 Horror creature with flying." To activate the ability, that player must pay 6 life. The team winds up at 5 life.
810.9b If a cost or effect allows both members of a team to pay life simultaneously, the total amount of life they pay may not exceed their team's life total. (Players can always pay 0 life.)
810.9c If an effect sets a single player's life total to a specific number, the player gains or loses the necessary amount of life to end up with the new total. The team's life total is adjusted by the amount of life that player gained or lost.
Example: In a Two-Headed Giant game, a player on a team that has 25 life is targeted by an ability that reads, "Target player's life total becomes 10." That player's life total is considered to be 25, so that player loses 15 life. The team winds up at 10 life.
810.9d If an effect would set the life total of each player on a team to a number, that team chooses one of its members. On that team, only that player is affected.
Example: In a Two-Headed Giant game, one team has 7 life and the other team has 13 life. A player casts Repay in Kind, which reads, "Each player's life total becomes the lowest life total among all players." Each team chooses one if its members to be affected. The result is that the chosen player on the team that has 13 life loses 6 life, so that team's life total winds up at 7.
810.9e A player can't exchange life totals with his or her teammate. If an effect would cause that to occur, the exchange won't happen.
810.9f If an effect instructs a player to redistribute any number of players' life totals, that player may not affect more than one member of each team this way.
810.9g If an effect says that a player can't gain life, no player on that player's team can gain life.
810.9h If an effect says that a player can't lose life, no player on that player's team can lose life or pay any amount of life other than 0.
810.10. Effects that cause players to get poison counters happen to each player individually. The poison counters are shared by the team.
810.10a If an effect needs to know how many poison counters an individual player has, that effect uses the number of poison counters that player's team has.
810.10b If an effect says that a player loses poison counters, that player's team loses that many poison counters.
810.10c If an effect says that a player can't get poison counters, no player on that player's team can get poison counters.
810.10d A player is "poisoned" if his or her team has one or more poison counters.
810.11. The Two-Headed Giant variant can also be played with equally sized teams of more than two players. For each player a team has beyond the second, that team's starting life total is increased by 15 and the number of poison counters required for the team to lose is increased by five. (These variants are called Three-Headed Giant, Four-Headed Giant, and so on.)
the tokens surviving or not is totally irrelevant.
If a creature died, it still attacked.
BUT, you never really "attacked" with the tokens, they entered the battlefield already attacking, thus are not counted by the land.
The ruling is explicit in the gatherer also.
At the time the ability resolves, you'll get to play the card if you declared three different creatures as attackers at any point in the turn. A creature declared as an attacker in two different attack phases counts only once. A creature that entered the battlefield attacking (such as a token created by Militia's Pride) doesn't count because you never attacked with it.
I attack, he's forced to block with everything, no one plays anything during the combat phase.
How many permanents should I destroy?
only one because combat damage is done at the same time and it's considered a single object?
only one because just one of the tokens ends up damaging my priest? If so, if the card forcing everyone to block it was a Revenge of the Hunted would I destroy 7 pemanents?
20 because every one of them deal damage at the same time, and all of them are different objects?
you will
Place a +1/+1 Counter on Battlewise Hoplite then scry 1
Draw a card with Triton Fortune Hunter
Place two +1/+1 Counter on Nivmagus Elemental
heroic triggers when you cast a spell, not when it resolves.
to it doesn't matter what happens after, if the spell is countered, exiled or if the world as we know it is destroyed, the heroic triggers were already put in the stack and unless they're somehow removed from there, they will resolve regardless of what happens to the original spell.
You shouldn't ever deviate from gatherer rules, unless they're really wrong, lol.
Rules are wrong in the gatherer if they're somehow against what's written in the comprehensive rules, if somehow you disagree with a gatherer ruling, go ahead and consult the comprehensive rules document, if that clarifies that's the oracle is really wrong, be a good samaritan and inform WotC about it
If you're in a sanctioned event, call a judge, if you're in your kitchen table, ask someone or create a specific topic here, lol.
As a TOEFL examiner that deals with foreigners taking English exams for a living I completely disagree.
I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing either, it's just not true. Many of our students are concurrently learning English+Spanish, English+German,etc and I'm not hearing any of them say English grammar is easier.
Well, in the end it's just my opinion.
from my personal experience, I think english grammar is a lot easier than portuguese or german, for example, and it may be just me.
If you have enough base to disagree (and it surely seems you do), I'm fine with it.
A lot of english speakers in Brazil agree with my point of view, not sure on how it's seen elsewhere.
English is not "simpler" than any of those languages. The grammar has some very strange and difficult features.
Of course it is.
and it's not a bad thing by any means, in fact, for me, this is the absolute best feature in the english language.
every language I learnt even a little bit in my life has a whole lot of nonsensical rules, english has it's share of weird stuff as well but it does not come even close.... believe it.
My family and spouse don't really care I play it, even though they know my entire collection is worth more than US$10k they don't really know how much money I still spend on magic.
Lots of friends play magic with me so obviously, they love it, the ones that don't play (coworkers included) don't really care nor make fun of me. haha
I'm an engineer, so almost every coworker is a nerd just like me also, lol.
the deck is slowly becoming closer and closer to Stoneblade without betraying the original theme.
But now it has a LOT less dependance on the theme and is neting nice results.
Without further ado, there goes the current decklist...
2 Sen Triplets
2 Daxos of Meletis
4 Nightveil Specter
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
control stuff (18)
4 High Priest of Penance
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Cyclonic Rift
4 Detention Sphere
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Equipments (5)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Light and shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Lands (23)
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Arcane Sanctum
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Island
the manabase is awesome now, City of Brass/Gemstone + Reflecting Pool will net any mana I need.
Shizo helps a lot when Daxos can't get through.
The Stoneblade heart of the deck absorbs a LOT of removals, and let the original win conditions shine.
It also can tutor the correct equipment for each situation, such as [CARD="Umezawa's Jitte"]something to deal with heavy aggro
[/CARD] or the sword with the correct protections to avoid blockers and removal, or a little monster to make for a very good early pressure.
Also, equiping a Sword of Fire and Ice to a High Priest of Penance and attacking with it is HILARIOUS.
Sword of Feast and Famine probably should replace Sword of Body and Mind, I don't have one and it's not really necessary I guess.
Well, the deck is performing in kitchen tables, it's very fun to play now that there are a lot of threats to soak up the removal.
Well, I'm still up to suggestions!
thank you.
Yes, you can.
At the time you'll choose who discards the card (by choosing which head takes the damage) one of the players has already sacrificed everything they're forced by Anihilator.
Man, this must be the most awesome deck I've ever seen.
I'll assemble it tonight to troll my friends...
damn! hahaha
No....
a creature that's tapped after it's been declared as blocker is still blocking normally even though it's tapped.
It will deal and receive damage normally regardless of it's "tap" status.
the confusion is that there's no damage distribution until the damage is actually done.
so, when he attacks and you multiblock, he'll choose the order and you'll be able to growth anything you want, then players pass priorities, and finally we get to the step where combat damage is actually done.
At this point, he'll assign combat damage, that will be done in the order he choose, assigning then 4 damage to the elf (he HAS to do lethal damage to it) and 3 damage to your wall of omens, which will survive.
you'll take no damage.
Delay actually counters the spell and then exiles the card, it's a completely new object when it's cast again from suspend, thus, it follows the normal rules of casting X spells without paying the mana cost.
In the end, as this isn't a sanctioned format you can make it what you want.
Anyway, you're building the deck to play it...
make it 500 cards and without any mill combo inside and there's no way you'd ever get to this issue.
Everything that's in the official rulebook is as follows:
If you have specific questions, feel free to ask those.
If a creature died, it still attacked.
BUT, you never really "attacked" with the tokens, they entered the battlefield already attacking, thus are not counted by the land.
The ruling is explicit in the gatherer also.
My opponent has 20 untapped 1/1 saproling tokens.
I attack, he's forced to block with everything, no one plays anything during the combat phase.
How many permanents should I destroy?
only one because combat damage is done at the same time and it's considered a single object?
only one because just one of the tokens ends up damaging my priest? If so, if the card forcing everyone to block it was a Revenge of the Hunted would I destroy 7 pemanents?
20 because every one of them deal damage at the same time, and all of them are different objects?
Place a +1/+1 Counter on Battlewise Hoplite then scry 1
Draw a card with Triton Fortune Hunter
Place two +1/+1 Counter on Nivmagus Elemental
heroic triggers when you cast a spell, not when it resolves.
to it doesn't matter what happens after, if the spell is countered, exiled or if the world as we know it is destroyed, the heroic triggers were already put in the stack and unless they're somehow removed from there, they will resolve regardless of what happens to the original spell.
Rules are wrong in the gatherer if they're somehow against what's written in the comprehensive rules, if somehow you disagree with a gatherer ruling, go ahead and consult the comprehensive rules document, if that clarifies that's the oracle is really wrong, be a good samaritan and inform WotC about it
If you're in a sanctioned event, call a judge, if you're in your kitchen table, ask someone or create a specific topic here, lol.
Well, in the end it's just my opinion.
from my personal experience, I think english grammar is a lot easier than portuguese or german, for example, and it may be just me.
If you have enough base to disagree (and it surely seems you do), I'm fine with it.
A lot of english speakers in Brazil agree with my point of view, not sure on how it's seen elsewhere.
Of course it is.
and it's not a bad thing by any means, in fact, for me, this is the absolute best feature in the english language.
every language I learnt even a little bit in my life has a whole lot of nonsensical rules, english has it's share of weird stuff as well but it does not come even close.... believe it.