Tribal was introduced so that those who wanted to take advantage of tribal effects without it being strictly on creatures could get an expanded bonus of casting said spells.
If Batalla translates to battle for real and is a real indication of a new card type, I wonder what that would entail, and if it's the big change to MTG that MaRo hinted in his very short response to a Blogatog post.
well, that's absolutely what Batalla translates for.
a new card type is coming let's hope it's a good one like planeswalker was and not a dud like Tribal.
if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swins like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.
Tribal is by every single argument based on logic a supertype... it's a card type just because a drunken game designer wanted to make people confused by Tarmogoyf's reminder text in future sight.
Tribal has associated subtypes. Which of the other ducks, I mean supertypes, has subtypes?
Since the whole purpose of tribal was to carry subtypes it is the most straightforward thing to group tribal with the other card types.
well, are there any supertypes other than "Legendary" that makes you sacrifice one of the copies when you control 2 permanents with the same name?
are there any supertypes that allow you to play as many copies of the card as you want other than Basic?
all supertypes have some rules associated, for Tribal is "this card has creature types even though it's not a creature" and that's it.
all other card types can exist by themselves....
all other supertypes and types must be associated to card types so they can work properly.
there's no logic reason to make Tribal a card type instead of a supertype... but it's written as a card type in the rulebook, so, I guess they win the argument by default as they are the people that write the rulebook.... so, that's fine, really.
Tribal was just a supertype, like Basic, World or Legendary...
it doesn't make any sense that Tarmogoyf actually mentioned it.
Wrong:
Quote from Magic Comprehensive Rules »
300.1. The card types are artifact, conspiracy, creature, dungeon, enchantment, instant, land, phenomenon, plane, planeswalker, scheme, sorcery, tribal, and vanguard.
yeah, I know that it's written like that in the rules.
but there's absolutely NOTHING unique about the playstyle of Tribal cards.... a Tribal enchantment is just a enchantment, a tribal sorcery is just a sorcery and so on.
it makes no sense that it's a card type instead of a supertype, because it DOESN'T EXIST without an associated card type.
if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swins like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.
Tribal is by every single argument based on logic a supertype... it's a card type just because a drunken game designer wanted to make people confused by Tarmogoyf's reminder text in future sight.
if you're playing that walker for anything other than the -7, you're better of just running Titan of Industry.
Flexibility is real value.
A 4/4 for five mana and the potential to get a 5/5 the next turn is already a good deal, but the flexibility is the point. Titan of Industry has no built-in cost reduction. If you always can wait for seven mana it's better, but we've just gone through a whole set that demonstrated with prototype the value in the option to play a spell a few turns earlier.
We've got charms and modal spells and kicker where individual modes where outclassed by other cards, but the ability to choose makes all the difference. We've had them long enough that we should be aware of the value.
Titan of Industry is 11 power for seven mana, but if you're stuck on six without another card to cheat the cost, it's dead. And I personally consider five mana for 9 power over two turns a decent baseline, considering it's just one of multiple options.
yeah.... if you can manage to hit yourself in the face for 4 without that transforming into too much pressure, get a 4/4 and untap with her alive to get a 5/5 then sure.
if she's hit by a flier or anything, that makes the next token a lot smaller even if she's still alive.
for 5 mana and 4 life she's kinda close to Wrenn and Seven.... but that -1 makes her probably better, though.
at the end of the day, yes she's a powerful card in a vacuum.
but she's fighting with A LOT of Green fatties for space in the decks.
she might just find a home, though.
As I've said before, I don't think she'll be played over Defiler of Vigor or Titan of Industry in current decks.
also, she can't be put into play by Storm the Festival, which is also a problem.
Left unchecked she wins the game.
but hell, it's a CMC7 card, that's the least we expect hahah
Walkers like, for example Vivien on the Hunt are simply better to play when you're behind...
I mean, she can bring you back into the game from an empty hand just after a Farewell.... which is something that the new Nissa can't dream of doing.
I literally didnt understood what you just wrote here. How come is Vivien better than Nissa after a farewell? If you want immediate board presence that kick ass the opponent instead of durdling around Nissa is just better.
I just think that this planeswalker isn't making any waves on Standard.
I wasn't talking about only Standard but impact presence in EDH as well. And there the life points loss it's irrelevant.
Vivien can draw 5 cards after a farewell... it's quite often that she draws like 3 in a deck that runs her that should be VERY creature heavy.
if she's already on the battlefield after farewell hits, you activate the +1 and repopulate the board... even if she has to somehow make a token, she can make a 4/4, which is often enough to buy some time after the farewell so in the next turn you just draw your 3, 4 creatures and go from there....
I just can't see how would making 2 vanilla tokens possibly be better than using 2 of Vivien's abilities in the 2 turns following a farewell.
even if those tokens were 1000/1000 it's probably take mais 2 Vivien's +1 activations over them, really.
about EDH.... everything works in EDH given the right playgroup.
and, sure some commanders will love to run her... I still think that the best use is still drop her, -7 and kill everyone with your "too big to block trampling dudes" than doing pretty much anything else she's capable of.
it will be pretty much 5 mana and 4 life for a 4/4 and a walker with 4 loyalty.
it's really inneficient at that cost.
INEFFICENT? Do you have any idea how planeswalkers usually protect themselves? Can you name a single Planeswalker card that makes 4/4 at 5 mana with a positivie loyalty ability? Not to mention again, that those creatures get even more bigger at every turn. Not only this is NOT inefficent, but is the most efficent PW that protect itself with a creature in all magic history for that mana cost.
Still, it's a 5 mana AND 4 life for a 3 loyalty planeswalker, which is pretty much the least loyalty a 5 mana walker ever had.
sure making a 4/4 right away is still fine... I just don't think you'd ever play this walker at 5 mana over Defiler of Vigor in any green deck ever.
I mean, this thing for 5 mana is kinda close to Wrenn and Seven... Wrenn doesn't cost life, makes a far better token, and ends up with 2 less loyalty after the first turn, but the chances of it simply hitting the battlefield and dying on the spot are very similar in this situation.
if you're playing that walker for anything othet than the -7, you're better of just running Titan of Industry.
You dont play Titan at 5 mana and Titan doesnt destroy things or make creatures at every single turn like Nissa but only at ETB. You are hugely understimating the versatility and inevitability and continuous source of card advantage that this PW offer for her cost.
and Titan destroys one thing, makes a dude, does it all immediately. Titan is oftentimes a 3 for 1 out of the box.
It's certainly far more impactful immediately than anything other than play nissa and hit the "I win" button coming from a stacked board.
Specially because that token that Nissa makes only becomes stronger each turn when she's not under pressure.... that token might just become weaker for your second plus if she's damaged somehow.
when dropped at 7 in a regular monogreen board, it will more often than not just win the game.
No dude, because even if you cast 1000 creatures in one turn they can easily be wiped out by any mass removal next turn. It's much, much harder to get rid of creatures AND planeswalker using a single card, so you really understimate too much with how many decks would struggle to kill both Nissa and the tokens she makes without them going on severe card disadvantage.
last time I heard, there was no instant boardwipe in standard right now.... you drop Nissa for 7, ultimate her and attack with like 5 trampling monsters way to large for anyone to block.
IMO, this looks like the best way to use her... as an overcharged Overrun
Walkers like, for example Vivien on the Hunt are simply better to play when you're behind...
I mean, she can bring you back into the game from an empty hand just after a Farewell.... which is something that the new Nissa can't dream of doing.
But then, I was wrong multiple times in my life, this could just be another one, wouldn't be the 100th time I was wrong about a card during spoiler season. I just think that this planeswalker isn't making any waves on Standard.
win target game of limited.
doesn't look like you can abuse it too much.... I'm not sure though.
could be quite strong
the card is very versatile, though.
could be awesome in a "suicide" type of deck.
should see some play in eternal formats, I think.
doubt it will be played in standard.
yes, that works.
already want to run it alongside Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief and a metric ton of spells to protect my dudes like Tamiyo's Safekeeping and Shore Up
maybe we finally have the proper finisher to all those janky Vesuvan Duplimancy decks
well, that's absolutely what Batalla translates for.
a new card type is coming let's hope it's a good one like planeswalker was and not a dud like Tribal.
well, are there any supertypes other than "Legendary" that makes you sacrifice one of the copies when you control 2 permanents with the same name?
are there any supertypes that allow you to play as many copies of the card as you want other than Basic?
all supertypes have some rules associated, for Tribal is "this card has creature types even though it's not a creature" and that's it.
all other card types can exist by themselves....
all other supertypes and types must be associated to card types so they can work properly.
there's no logic reason to make Tribal a card type instead of a supertype... but it's written as a card type in the rulebook, so, I guess they win the argument by default as they are the people that write the rulebook.... so, that's fine, really.
but there's absolutely NOTHING unique about the playstyle of Tribal cards.... a Tribal enchantment is just a enchantment, a tribal sorcery is just a sorcery and so on.
it makes no sense that it's a card type instead of a supertype, because it DOESN'T EXIST without an associated card type.
if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swins like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.
Tribal is by every single argument based on logic a supertype... it's a card type just because a drunken game designer wanted to make people confused by Tarmogoyf's reminder text in future sight.
it doesn't make any sense that Tarmogoyf actually mentioned it.
let's just hope we don't get another dud from this "Battle" thing.
seems a little to similar to Lizard Blades for standard or something, but it should be nice in limited.
that 2 mana enchantment that's a creture/walker removal seems pretty strong, as does the black edict.
some nice cards all around.
yeah.... if you can manage to hit yourself in the face for 4 without that transforming into too much pressure, get a 4/4 and untap with her alive to get a 5/5 then sure.
if she's hit by a flier or anything, that makes the next token a lot smaller even if she's still alive.
for 5 mana and 4 life she's kinda close to Wrenn and Seven.... but that -1 makes her probably better, though.
at the end of the day, yes she's a powerful card in a vacuum.
but she's fighting with A LOT of Green fatties for space in the decks.
she might just find a home, though.
As I've said before, I don't think she'll be played over Defiler of Vigor or Titan of Industry in current decks.
also, she can't be put into play by Storm the Festival, which is also a problem.
Left unchecked she wins the game.
but hell, it's a CMC7 card, that's the least we expect hahah
Vivien can draw 5 cards after a farewell... it's quite often that she draws like 3 in a deck that runs her that should be VERY creature heavy.
if she's already on the battlefield after farewell hits, you activate the +1 and repopulate the board... even if she has to somehow make a token, she can make a 4/4, which is often enough to buy some time after the farewell so in the next turn you just draw your 3, 4 creatures and go from there....
I just can't see how would making 2 vanilla tokens possibly be better than using 2 of Vivien's abilities in the 2 turns following a farewell.
even if those tokens were 1000/1000 it's probably take mais 2 Vivien's +1 activations over them, really.
about EDH.... everything works in EDH given the right playgroup.
and, sure some commanders will love to run her... I still think that the best use is still drop her, -7 and kill everyone with your "too big to block trampling dudes" than doing pretty much anything else she's capable of.
Still, it's a 5 mana AND 4 life for a 3 loyalty planeswalker, which is pretty much the least loyalty a 5 mana walker ever had.
sure making a 4/4 right away is still fine... I just don't think you'd ever play this walker at 5 mana over Defiler of Vigor in any green deck ever.
I mean, this thing for 5 mana is kinda close to Wrenn and Seven... Wrenn doesn't cost life, makes a far better token, and ends up with 2 less loyalty after the first turn, but the chances of it simply hitting the battlefield and dying on the spot are very similar in this situation.
Yes, you do.
Right now most decks aren't really hardcasting Titan anyway.
they Invoke Justice it, or Cheat it in Somehow else
and Titan destroys one thing, makes a dude, does it all immediately. Titan is oftentimes a 3 for 1 out of the box.
It's certainly far more impactful immediately than anything other than play nissa and hit the "I win" button coming from a stacked board.
Specially because that token that Nissa makes only becomes stronger each turn when she's not under pressure.... that token might just become weaker for your second plus if she's damaged somehow.
last time I heard, there was no instant boardwipe in standard right now.... you drop Nissa for 7, ultimate her and attack with like 5 trampling monsters way to large for anyone to block.
IMO, this looks like the best way to use her... as an overcharged Overrun
Walkers like, for example Vivien on the Hunt are simply better to play when you're behind...
I mean, she can bring you back into the game from an empty hand just after a Farewell.... which is something that the new Nissa can't dream of doing.
But then, I was wrong multiple times in my life, this could just be another one, wouldn't be the 100th time I was wrong about a card during spoiler season. I just think that this planeswalker isn't making any waves on Standard.