I don't understand all that "you need 4 mana symbols to get any value from this card"
yes.... you need it....
but you also need 4 Swamps to get any value from Cabal Coffers, and 4 Swamps is harder to get than just 4 mana symbols in a lot of situations, and no one will ever say that Cabal Coffers is a weak card.
This land is very, very powerful, this will get played in monocolor decks, maybe even as 4of as the new legend rule will transform the latter copies into overheated rituals.
Maybe this could even be played in 2 color decks as a pseudo Filter Land.
It has an important advantage over Cabal Coffers even, it DOES generate mana in it's own, even if it's colorless mana, if you're playing multicolor chances are not all your mana symbols are colored... lol.
Problem is, this needs to be played in a Permanent heavy build, whereas Cabal Coffers just need to be played with a black core.
still, this card WILL find a home. no question about that.
I built a entire deck over Mirrorweave, then I changed it to something else...
still, I have my lessons and Triggered abilities are what you want use with it to get full profit.
You have, let's say, 1 Admonition and 3 unsorted tokens, then just play Mirrorweave on the angel, Play a fetchland, exile 8 permanents (6 of which permanently as your tokens won't have the "leaves battlefield" trigger unless they die at this turn), and hit with your 4 6/6 flying dudes.
There are so many crazy creatures with Mirrorweave it isn't even funny. Glowrider can virtually transform your Mirrorweave into a Orim's Chant
you can always use Zuberas and some kind of sacrifice outlet.
Biovisionary and graft creatures are just scratching the surface.
Mirrorweave is my favorite combat trick EVER, that's for sure.
I disliked M14 too, but for totally different reasons (they were pure overarching design ones, rather than ones based on power disparity). Anyway, a few questions:
1. When has this practice of designing sets with '90% garbage' not been true in Magic?
2. Why doesn't any other TCG do what you're proposing, let alone Magic?
3. Can you name a set with 90% garbage (massive hyperbole there for no reason)?
4. How many cards do you want in any single set to be playable in Constructed?
Three additional considerations on the "Make every card playable" idea.
One, many 'bad' cards have clever applications. If they never print cards that seem bad on the face of it, they also severely limit the scope of the interactions Johnny can figure out. You never get the awesome "Actually, Lion's Eye Diamond is the perfect card for this deck" moment.
Two, card evaluation can't be done in a vacuum. Many objectively powerful cards aren't very playable in many environments (heck, when Jace, the Mind Sculptor was printed, he was a marginal tournament card until they printed those damn birds + Batterskull, and he's one of the most objectively powerful cards ever printed). So, what does it even mean to demand that all cards are roughly equally playable? Does that mean they have to craft the entire environment that those cards will go in? That would require them to have discovered every synergy, combo and cool trick possible in a set before they push it out the door - which means even less for players to figure out. If you print two objectively equally powerful creatures, but there's more support for one than the other, then you're a fool to play the one with less support.
For a concrete example, consider two creatures: WW, 2/2 First Strike, Knight, and WW, 2/2 First Strike, Soldier. They're the same card except for creature types, but their creature types aren't equally supported. How do you account for that? Do you make it so that being a Knight, which has less support (hypothetically, I'm not about to go count Soldier lords and Knight lords), means that you get to be a more powerful overall card? If not, the Soldier card is just better, isn't it? If so, what happens if 10 sets later they decide that Knights are going to be a major creature type in a set and suddenly Knights have almost as much support as Soldiers? If you're playing an eternal format, you're now just plain wrong if you choose the Soldier card.
Third, it may just be impossible to get the game balance that close together without homogenizing everything. In League of Legends, the difference between a must-ban champ's win rate and a never-played champ's win rate is often no more than a percentage point or two. Small considerations are enough to make something an always wrong choice. To make everything playable, they'd have to never be wrong about power levels of cards, because as soon as they miss by a few percent on a dozen or so cards, you have right choices and wrong choices.
"All cards should be playable" is a nice buzzword, but I think it's a complete impossibility.
Still, there are completely unplayable plain bad cards that simply won't be played like.... EVER.
Why do cards like Street Sweeper even exist?
Really.... destroy all auras attached to target land?!
in a 4/6 for 6 mana?! would you even think to add this to any deck?
Not even all Jhonnies in the world would be able to find a home where this guy would be relevant.
Even though there's no need for all cards to be constructed playable, there's no need to print something as bad as this... really.
If the creature is killed while Bestow is on the stack, it will simply enter as a creature itself.
I found that in Matt Tabak's twitter after reading this....
It's COMPLETELY counter intuitive IMO....
before reading this I was sure that it would be countered cleanly, this is SO weird.... lol.
I can't remember the last time I wasn't able to determine the outcome of something like this.
You can declare it as a blocker so their creature becomes blocked.
Then you sacrifice the hawk before the combat damage step.
Your hawk will not deal combat damage but their creature remains blocked and unless it has trample, you'll not receive any damage
So what would this neo-Necro deck look like? I'd dare say that Ad Nauseum is better in storm as a couple other posters have pointed out, and the if you do drop it in there and then turn 1 necro for 19 as so many people say would happen, you're in range from any deck running red really. What deck could call Necro home in Legacy?
That's exactly what I've been saying this whole time
That's why I don't advocate going to 1. The more I think about it, the better going to 4 sounds. At 4, no 1 mana spell can kill you (admittedly bolt-gut shot can, but if you've gone first, they need simian spirit guide and if they have red mana you just have to go for it and hope that the 4 cards left in your hand include a daze).
Yeah 4 seems reasonable but it also reduces your power by 3 cards and suddenly you'll have to Taylor that perfect hand from 20 and not 23 cards.
What makes ad nauseam so good in storm decks is that you may control the risk as you see the cards you're drawing and stop when you're sure you're able to win. And when you resolve it you can win right away 99% of the time, even if it has higher CMC I guess it's the better choice for storm decks
Necropotence would probably find another home and not act as a ad nauseam replacement in storm decks, the more I look, more I think as nauseam is simply better for this kind of deck
Necro player either wins on T1 when you have no mana, or has sculpted a perfect had with multiple counterspells your burn will never get through. Sudden Shock would be the best shot, which in that case, oh no, they only draw 17 cards in one turn instead of 19.
Actually no
They will not have a perfect hand until their end step and they will have 1 or 2 life at their main phase.
All I would need is a lightning bolt and a simian spirit guide which is exactly the same odds of him having dark ritual into necropotence...
This kind of thread is funny, people always assume that combo decks have their perfect hands all the time and that every disruptive strategy is not viable because it's not likely.
Every half decent deck with this mystical power of getting exactly what it needs every time will warp the format.
That said, a necro combo that draws 19 in the first turn will have a couple of issues...
1- It will be at 1 before that almighty hand sculpting.
2- This hand will need to have a combo capable of killing just with instants with 23 cards and some of them definitively need to be 0 cost instant "rituals" like simian spirit guide (or you'll need to have Chrome Mox or Lotus Petal in your starting hand before using necro), or you'll not kill turn 1 at all.
3- If you don't kill, you'll have to taylor your 23 card hand into a 7 card hand that has both a killing combo that can kill in turn 2 AND is resilient enough to resist combo disrupt and ANY damage you could take.
4- There's no "second chance" in this strategy... a single disruptive piece that pierces trough your defense will be game, as you're not likely to draw any more cards in this game
Every deck is top tier when your opponent is asleep.
Like a fellow poster said above we should stop making theories and just test a neo necro deck against current top legacy decks.
It would probably be a tier 1 deck, but I doubt it would warp the metagame as much as people in this thread seem to believe, I'm not even sure it would be more of a threat than current storm builds.
That alone speaks loudly about it's sheer power.
this guy is SCARY.
yes.... you need it....
but you also need 4 Swamps to get any value from Cabal Coffers, and 4 Swamps is harder to get than just 4 mana symbols in a lot of situations, and no one will ever say that Cabal Coffers is a weak card.
This land is very, very powerful, this will get played in monocolor decks, maybe even as 4of as the new legend rule will transform the latter copies into overheated rituals.
Maybe this could even be played in 2 color decks as a pseudo Filter Land.
It has an important advantage over Cabal Coffers even, it DOES generate mana in it's own, even if it's colorless mana, if you're playing multicolor chances are not all your mana symbols are colored... lol.
Problem is, this needs to be played in a Permanent heavy build, whereas Cabal Coffers just need to be played with a black core.
still, this card WILL find a home. no question about that.
still, I have my lessons and Triggered abilities are what you want use with it to get full profit.
Admonition Angel and Emeria Angel (and landfall dudes in general) are crazy all stars with Mirrorweave
You have, let's say, 1 Admonition and 3 unsorted tokens, then just play Mirrorweave on the angel, Play a fetchland, exile 8 permanents (6 of which permanently as your tokens won't have the "leaves battlefield" trigger unless they die at this turn), and hit with your 4 6/6 flying dudes.
There are so many crazy creatures with Mirrorweave it isn't even funny.
Glowrider can virtually transform your Mirrorweave into a Orim's Chant
you can always use Zuberas and some kind of sacrifice outlet.
Biovisionary and graft creatures are just scratching the surface.
Mirrorweave is my favorite combat trick EVER, that's for sure.
Homelands is 100% garbage.
Still, there are completely unplayable plain bad cards that simply won't be played like.... EVER.
Why do cards like Street Sweeper even exist?
Really.... destroy all auras attached to target land?!
in a 4/6 for 6 mana?! would you even think to add this to any deck?
Not even all Jhonnies in the world would be able to find a home where this guy would be relevant.
Even though there's no need for all cards to be constructed playable, there's no need to print something as bad as this... really.
I found that in Matt Tabak's twitter after reading this....
It's COMPLETELY counter intuitive IMO....
before reading this I was sure that it would be countered cleanly, this is SO weird.... lol.
I can't remember the last time I wasn't able to determine the outcome of something like this.
a +2 ability that could be game ending.
I's not hard at all make that give +6/+6 or +8/+8.
a -4 ability with SERIOUS memory issues... go figure.
in the end, this thread should be closed already, this is faker than a 3 dollars bill.
Then you sacrifice the hawk before the combat damage step.
Your hawk will not deal combat damage but their creature remains blocked and unless it has trample, you'll not receive any damage
That's exactly what I've been saying this whole time
Yeah 4 seems reasonable but it also reduces your power by 3 cards and suddenly you'll have to Taylor that perfect hand from 20 and not 23 cards.
What makes ad nauseam so good in storm decks is that you may control the risk as you see the cards you're drawing and stop when you're sure you're able to win. And when you resolve it you can win right away 99% of the time, even if it has higher CMC I guess it's the better choice for storm decks
Necropotence would probably find another home and not act as a ad nauseam replacement in storm decks, the more I look, more I think as nauseam is simply better for this kind of deck
Actually no
They will not have a perfect hand until their end step and they will have 1 or 2 life at their main phase.
All I would need is a lightning bolt and a simian spirit guide which is exactly the same odds of him having dark ritual into necropotence...
This kind of thread is funny, people always assume that combo decks have their perfect hands all the time and that every disruptive strategy is not viable because it's not likely.
Every half decent deck with this mystical power of getting exactly what it needs every time will warp the format.
That said, a necro combo that draws 19 in the first turn will have a couple of issues...
1- It will be at 1 before that almighty hand sculpting.
2- This hand will need to have a combo capable of killing just with instants with 23 cards and some of them definitively need to be 0 cost instant "rituals" like simian spirit guide (or you'll need to have Chrome Mox or Lotus Petal in your starting hand before using necro), or you'll not kill turn 1 at all.
3- If you don't kill, you'll have to taylor your 23 card hand into a 7 card hand that has both a killing combo that can kill in turn 2 AND is resilient enough to resist combo disrupt and ANY damage you could take.
4- There's no "second chance" in this strategy... a single disruptive piece that pierces trough your defense will be game, as you're not likely to draw any more cards in this game
Every deck is top tier when your opponent is asleep.
Like a fellow poster said above we should stop making theories and just test a neo necro deck against current top legacy decks.
It would probably be a tier 1 deck, but I doubt it would warp the metagame as much as people in this thread seem to believe, I'm not even sure it would be more of a threat than current storm builds.
errrr no....
I'd just use that IF, and that's a big IF, necropotence "draw 19" become so common it requires me to....
if that happens, then it should remain banned....
but in the real world, I don't really think that will actually happen.
bla bla bla... pay 19 life, draw 19 cards.... bolt you, I win.
end of story.
truth is, Necropotence is REALLY powerful....
but wouldn't destroy the metagame.