2019 Holiday Exchange!
 
A New and Exciting Beginning
 
The End of an Era
  • posted a message on February 15, 2021 Banned and Restricted Announcement
    Quote from ZasZ234 »
    They quite literally banned the Modern "Eggs" deck because it took too long and was not fun to play against.

    Quote from seilaoque »
    they either drop a threat you can't deal on turn 2, or mulligan until concede, or whiff and concede.
    there's no middle ground, no actual magic game.

    The deciding factor seems to be that "too long, no fun" is worse than "no fun, quickly done". Legitimate if you measure fun over time rather than fun per game.

    It remains bad that the card was specifically designed to allow such a play pattern in the first place.


    yeah....
    with Trickery, the main issue IMO is how fast the matches actually go....
    so all the people that just want to quickly farm arena will use the deck because nothing will burn through the farming process faster.

    and then it generates a stupid amount of bad matches.
    I've encountered far more of this deck than I'd like... lol.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on February 15, 2021 Banned and Restricted Announcement
    Quote from xaltair »
    Quote from seilaoque »
    Quote from seilaoque »

    well, Tibalt's Trickery in standard isn't "too good" it's just plain stupid....
    I guess they allowed it to continue.
    maybe generating a degenerate playstyle in which no one has fun is alright as long as such deck doesn't win too much.


    They quite literally banned the Modern "Eggs" deck because it took too long and was not fun to play against.

    So there is a very real reason to remove decks by banning key cards, if the play pattern they produce is absolute cancer for the game, it just kills any spirit to play.

    That doesnt mean any combo deck fills that slot, but especially in Arena, Trickery had to be banned for 1-game play basically instantly, the day they saw the deck become "popular" in standard they could have removed the card instantly and fix the problem at the root, instead they let the wound fester.
    yeah... this is true.

    I'm all in for banning of Tibalt's Trickery.... that deck generates 100% of bad matches.

    it will either straight up win or lose on turn 2 like 80% of the times, it's horrible lol


    I'm 8-2,against the deck in standard, they fizzle or sometimes mull to 4 and just concede.


    yeah, but the issue is that, even being 8-2, none of those 10 matches were good, most likely.
    they either drop a threat you can't deal on turn 2, or mulligan until concede, or whiff and concede.
    there's no middle ground, no actual magic game.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on February 15, 2021 Banned and Restricted Announcement
    Quote from seilaoque »

    well, Tibalt's Trickery in standard isn't "too good" it's just plain stupid....
    I guess they allowed it to continue.
    maybe generating a degenerate playstyle in which no one has fun is alright as long as such deck doesn't win too much.


    They quite literally banned the Modern "Eggs" deck because it took too long and was not fun to play against.

    So there is a very real reason to remove decks by banning key cards, if the play pattern they produce is absolute cancer for the game, it just kills any spirit to play.

    That doesnt mean any combo deck fills that slot, but especially in Arena, Trickery had to be banned for 1-game play basically instantly, the day they saw the deck become "popular" in standard they could have removed the card instantly and fix the problem at the root, instead they let the wound fester.
    yeah... this is true.

    I'm all in for banning of Tibalt's Trickery.... that deck generates 100% of bad matches.

    it will either straight up win or lose on turn 2 like 80% of the times, it's horrible lol
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on February 15, 2021 Banned and Restricted Announcement
    No changes to standard? They are seriously just leaving turn 2 ugin plays happen in best of 1 on arena?

    Not to mention rogues goes unchecked? Standard is an absolute garbage format yet they do nothing? Thanks wotc

    well, Tibalt's Trickery in standard isn't "too good" it's just plain stupid....
    I guess they allowed it to continue.
    maybe generating a degenerate playstyle in which no one has fun is alright as long as such deck doesn't win too much.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [STX] Commands, Mystical Archive, and the first look at Commander 2021
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Quote from seilaoque »
    The question that remains is: Will they become historic legal? because having stuff like Demonic Tutor and Swords to Plowshares and likely Brainstorm, Lightning Bolt, Counterspell and other stuff at this level would VASTLY change the format.


    Considering that the invocation/masterpiece "legacy reprint" cards were never made legal in the modern and standard formats I seriously doubt they would make these reprints historic legal.


    https://twitter.com/MTG_Arena/status/1362555679844814853

    P.S. Swords to Plowshares and Demonic Tutor will not be legal in Historic. Opt, and most of the 63 Mystical Archive cards will be!


    This saids otherwise

    well.... so most of them will be cards that already exist in historic?
    maybe we get some "new" ones that become legal as well.

    it's actually a partial answer hahah because they have confirmed that "Opt" will be legal, but, hell, Opt is already legal.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [STX] Commands, Mystical Archive, and the first look at Commander 2021
    Quote from KavuMonarch »
    'Converted mana cost' is just way too many letters for my tastes, so I'm totally OK with the changing the term, but I think they could have done better than 'mana value'. In my custom sets I've adopted the term 'mana sum', which is even shorter and IMO clearer. Maybe 'value' casuses fewer translations issues or something.
    The shuffle change I really don't see the point of. As with the 'any target' template it seems like sacrificing clarity for the sake of brevity, which I don't feel can ever be worth it.


    hmmmm
    I think you should count again.... haha

    you say that "converted mana cost" is too many characters and "mana value" is a valid change but don't see the point with taking out "your library" after the "shuffle".

    well...
    shuffle your library has 18 characters + 2 spaces, so 20 total... plain simple shuffle has just 7.

    converted mana cost has 17 charactrs + 2 spaces, so 19 total... "mana value" has 9 characters + 1 space, so 10 total.
    by this "too many characters" metric, then the "shuffle" change is even better than the CMC one.
    and the words "your library" are completely useless because what else would the player shuffle? haha

    hell, it gets even worse when it's "target player shuffles his or her library" haha
    now it would be simply "target player shuffles". it's fine.

    in portuguese (my mother language) both phrases take even more characters as the phrases today are "Custo de mana convertido" and "Embaralhe seu grimório"

    that being said, I'm still not sure that textbox space is a commodity in such scarcity that made this change a real necessity, but I'm not bothered by it.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [STX] Commands, Mystical Archive, and the first look at Commander 2021
    so.... I'm really curious on how will the masterpieces work with Arena....

    I mean, they will be a very integral part of Strixhaven limited, so they have to be in somehow.

    the question that remains is: Will they become historic legal? because having stuff like Demonic Tutor and Swords to Plowshares and likely Brainstorm, Lightning Bolt, Counterspell and other stuff at this level would VASTLY change the format.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on February 15, 2021 Banned and Restricted Announcement
    Quote from HighHolder »
    The fact that they fixed cascade holds zero surprise. People who speculated on Valki got what they deserved, it was a very stupid loophole.

    and a loophole they had already fixed for split cards....
    so, really, no idea why that even saw the light of day.
    I was very surprised to see that there was no change to cascade rules in the rules primer for Kaldheim.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on February 15, 2021 Banned and Restricted Announcement
    Quote from foam_dome »
    Quote from seilaoque »
    Quote from Mikefon »
    Arcanist in legacy was insane! Much stronger than snapcaster since it's repeatable and cast things for free! No surprise it's gone.

    this is not exactly true....
    yes, the card is strong, but it's an engine, while Snapcaster is just a tool
    snapcaster having flash is pretty crazy, as he transforms your entire graveyard into a toolbox at instant speed, while Arcanist must already be on the battlefield and needs to attack so he can cast something, you can actually see him coming.

    that said, yes.... Arcanist is very, very strong.
    T1: thoughtseize, take out the answer.
    T2: Arcanist
    T3: The Royal Scions

    can very well take over tha game just like that, but I'm still not sure that this was so much stronger than other stuff that's already pretty unfair in legacy to warrant that ban.


    Snapcaster can turn your graveyard into a toolbox at instant speed, but Arcanist can turn it into a toolbox for the rest of the game.


    kinda....
    he's slower, easier to see coming, also not hard to kill.
    when he works, he's a powerhouse and will generate tons of card advantage.
    but a lot of boardstates will stonewall him.
    also, everyone packs a ton of removal in legacy.

    not saying the card is bad, but I completely disagree with the statement "Stronger than Snapcaster", he's a completely different card for a completely different deck.
    even if you end up playing both in the same deck, they will have vastly different functions.
    one is a proactive play, the other one is a reactive play, it's kinda like saying that "counterspell is better than Maelstrom Pulse" or sonething in those lines.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [B&R] February 15 Banned and Restricted Announcement
    Quote from Crispen_Smith »
    I mean, I went Mythic in Arena twice in Traditional Mythic with decks running Uro and I'm very happy to see it banned in Historic. It's a frustrating card to play against and makes for stupidly swingy and random games. Even with Thoughtseize, Oozes etc the card is unstoppable.


    yeah. that's because it's a super efficient card that generates a crapton of card advantage while being a win condition.... hahah
    this is going to be banned in legacy as well somewhere down the line, I'm surprised it wasn't today.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on February 15, 2021 Banned and Restricted Announcement
    Quote from migrena »
    I might be missing something but why SSG is getting banned considering all other changes in this announcement?
    probably most likely to help stopping degenerate combos killing turn 1 or 2 no matter what, even before such decks arise.

    it should be at the very least slowing down "Oops all spells" and stuff like this.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on February 15, 2021 Banned and Restricted Announcement
    Quote from Mikefon »
    Arcanist in legacy was insane! Much stronger than snapcaster since it's repeatable and cast things for free! No surprise it's gone.

    this is not exactly true....
    yes, the card is strong, but it's an engine, while Snapcaster is just a tool
    snapcaster having flash is pretty crazy, as he transforms your entire graveyard into a toolbox at instant speed, while Arcanist must already be on the battlefield and needs to attack so he can cast something, you can actually see him coming.

    that said, yes.... Arcanist is very, very strong.
    T1: thoughtseize, take out the answer.
    T2: Arcanist
    T3: The Royal Scions

    can very well take over tha game just like that, but I'm still not sure that this was so much stronger than other stuff that's already pretty unfair in legacy to warrant that ban.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on February 15, 2021 Banned and Restricted Announcement
    Oko has made it's way on being banned in everything.
    Uro might be following soon. and I bet it's just a question of when.... hahaha

    Dreadhorde Arcanist in legacy seems very surprising.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [B&R] February 15 Banned and Restricted Announcement


    You know what? I don’t fully understand this.

    agonizing demise
    banishing light
    cling to dust
    eat to extinction
    elspeth conquers death
    Epic Downfall
    Erebos’s Intervention
    Extinction Event
    Immersturm Predator
    Kitesail Freebooter
    Klothys, God of Destiny
    Memory Leak
    Ravenform
    Return to Nature
    Scavenging Ooze
    Shadows’ Verdict
    Skyclave Apparition
    Soul-Guide Lantern
    Tormod’s Crypt
    Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
    Valki, God of Lies
    Weathered Runestone

    While some of these cards are unexciting, a few of them are main-deckable. We have a mainstream deck that packs crypt in the main deck for the purpose of targeting it with trickery... a deck which runs valki (which comes down before they can cast uro and steals it) and Ugin (which just kills Uro)... and Uro is STILL taking a ban.

    Compared with everything listed above, what sort of “Good Answer” would need to be printed for something like Uro to be balanced? I honestly don’t think that even Path/StP would do much to stop it. I don’t think that mana leak or counterspell would do enough to stop it, either. Uro is simply a mistake, plain and simple.



    With cards like Uro a simple "card advantage" balance is required.

    The card is used as an Explore + gain 3 life first, then its played from the graveyard (+1 card) as a hyper efficient 6/6 for 4 mana, which again draws a card (+1 card) and gains 3 life again, while also ramping the player.

    So the moment someone plays a removal on Uro, the player already did draw 2 cards, gained 6 life, got 2 extra land drops, AND still has a 6/6 monster in play, that will keep drawing cards while attacking, AND if they dont exile it, it will come back for some more.

    Yes, thats completely ridiculous and the answer to that needs to compensate all of the gains.

    So what we talking here is tremendous (a very real problem of the power creep, that removal lacks behind).

    Basically all the 1-for-1 removal does has no inherent card advantage, it will never really answer a problem like Uro.
    The amount of exile removal speaks for itself, as non-exile removal wouldnt even remotely do anything to cards like Uro (and plenty more of the creatures that return from the graveyard).

    ----

    Efficient removal like Swords to Plowshares could only be reasonable against Uro because you can hit it at instant speed the moment its first used to explore, then its exiled, but you still used a card to answer Uro, that provided a cantrip on its own, so the opponent has lost no card, while you spend a valuable removal, you lack behind.

    And the classic issue of answer vs threat, the player with the Uro will never fall behind playing it, if the opponent does not have the answer right there, it just gets worse, a massive Snowball effect.
    The removal will at best just do the 1-for-1 , if at all, nothing more, it will never produce card advantage, it can only produce tempo, as you spend less mana to get rid of a more expensive target.


    So the extreme we would need to answer a card like Uro on a powerlevel standpoint would be tremendous, as the player using Uro would need to be punished for playing exactly that kind of card, so they might reconsider playing Uro at all.


    To not get too much ahead of custom cards, but just something to imagine still for the cause of the argument:

    Uros Demise B
    Instant (Mythic rare)
    Exile up to one creature, planeswalker or creature card from a graveyard with converted manacost 3 or less.
    Until end of turn, if a player would gain life this turn, they lose that much life instead.
    Until end of turn, if a player would draw a card this, except the first card they draw each turn, they exile a card from their hand instead.

    The power level is tremendous, and it hits a lot more than just Uro, so the power creep into this kind of removal is equally disgusting and a format would need to acknowledge this removal and work around it to not get punished too harshly. But even a card like this might face a metagame of decks that are build so it does basically nothing against them.

    Opposition Agent is the kind of hard pushed hate card against search effects, thats so tremendously powerful that a format needs to work around it and cannot just blindly fire lots of tutors around to get crushed by it.
    To see a card like that is shocking at first, as we are not used to answers and removal being that efficient at all, while the threats get more powerful every day.

    Making removal "only" cheap and efficient is not helping against cards that produce a snowball effect of card advantage.


    yeah, even straight up "exile target permanent" for 0 doesn't undo everything that Uro did.
    that said.....
    when answers completely negate the entire card while costing less mana, then control becomes waaaaaay to strong.
    pro-active play NEEDS to be slightly stronger, because if it's not, then control decks will simply take over the meta every time.

    that's why they don't print Counterspell anymore.
    negating the effects of virtually ANY card in the history of magic for 2 mana...
    you counter their 4drop for 2 mana, and then do something else with your other 2 mana.
    a card like that shifts the entire metagame to a position where you only play VERY CHEAP threats, or you go full on control.

    it's a hard balance to really make work.
    and yes, Uro is absolutely too strong, a crazy bonkers card.
    but bringing answers to that level would only transform the meta into a crazy controlfest.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [B&R] February 15 Banned and Restricted Announcement
    In the end, they can totally produce OP cards, as long as they put in some proper answers to these cards, so a metagame can evolve around them.

    If every deck plays Uro as green can splash any color without a problem and not playing Uro becomes a "mistake" , the only decks not running the stupid card are decks that intentionally try to work under it (like red aggro decks).

    If a card can warp a format so hard around itself, it simply means the answers are crap and the format is not equipped to work with its pushed cards.

    ----

    Every time you make something powerful, produce a properly powerful answer to it (and put some form of answer in every color).

    If each color has something powerful decks will naturally evolve around these cards, so a format can become stale quickly, if anything else lacks behind in power level.

    Putting a card in your deck should have a reason and a cost, being ALL upside and good in every situation is producing cancerous cards and it becomes almost impossible to print any proper answer to such cards.


    but how powerful would that answer need to be?
    I mean.... even if you somehow print Swords to Plowshares on standard today....
    Uro is still stupid.
    I play Uro, draw a card, ramp a land, gain 3 life.
    you stp it before I sac.

    at the end of this interaction I gained 9 life drew a card and ramped one mana for 1UG, you've spent W and a card so I don't do that again soon.

    and Swords to Plowshares is arguably the strongest creature removal ever printed.
    so... what level of removal would we need to print to keep cards like Uro in check? would those even be printable without trashing all formats?

    I mean, legacy is packed with all the most poweful answers ever to everything, and they're still considering banning uro there.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.