MTG Salvation

Quote from migrena »

Quote from seilaoque »

I'm still trying to find any group anywhere in which big table commander free for alls don' become a race for who combos and is not countered first every single damn time... lol.

the only way that happens is if you play the "fair play" card and makes everyone to avoid instant win combos, because if you don't then everyone will always simply do that.
you either play the combo or a control heavy enough to disallow other people to combo.... there's no other way to win in a FFA game....
and, yes, sure, in a FFA game where anyone drops Oko, he'll be instantly killed, but that's just because of how stupid big of a threat it is.

It sounds like everyone you played with wants to play cEDH. Casual groups still retain balance between combo-control-aggro strategies. The higher the power level of the playgroup the more it gravitates toward combo winconditions. Which is unfortunate because I would gladly play cEDH with more varied winconditions.

yeah, thank god for playgroups that actually care about good games and dismantle the "hey, I won" decks.
and no, I don't want to play CEDH, I mostly don`t even want to play EDH. My experience with the format has not been good all along mainly because like 70% of the time you bring 2 unknown guys to a very casual table, one of them will have a combo do burst the entire table down on turn 6 or something.

My point was just that.... if you don't enforce a local rule to avoid instant win combos in FFA matches, then, every single one of those will be decided by those every single time.... because the combo will win or because it will be countered enough times so the guy playing it will only be frustrated.
so.... banning anything at all will always simply be irrelevant unless that thing makes such combos even faster somehow....

I just said that because the argument that Oko could be labeled as "unfun" was countered with "when you drop it, all your 3 opponents will bash him down"
and sure he'd not be that much of an issue in a FFA multiplayer game.

Quote from JaceBluesMaster »

Quote from seilaoque »

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

I’m glad they’re aware of the Heliod combo. Wish they’d ban a part of it so people won’t hoard Heliod for this silly and likely temporary reason.

Can we just ban Oko in commander and call it a day?

I think it's still very possible that Oko will end up banned in commander....
mainly because transforming commanders to elks is FAR stronger than removing them by destroying, exiling or whatever.
people may start complaining and labeling it "unfun" and then it becomes banned there as well.

It doesn't look like that for now, but Oko can make your commander into a Elk and then steal it next turn....
when that happens in 1x1 commander you think you need to rethink your life... lol.

A friend uses him a lot. Oko is not that bad when you have 3 opponents gunning to kill him ASAP. Would not surprise me if the committee does ban him though. Really depends on how many people start fielding him and how many start complaining online.

well, in multiplayer free for all games, it really doesn't matter.
too much chaos for anything other than a board killing combo to be relevant.

I'm still trying to find any group anywhere in which big table commander free for alls don' become a race for who combos and is not countered first every single damn time... lol.

the only way that happens is if you play the "fair play" card and makes everyone to avoid instant win combos, because if you don't then everyone will always simply do that.
you either play the combo or a control heavy enough to disallow other people to combo.... there's no other way to win in a FFA game....
and, yes, sure, in a FFA game where anyone drops Oko, he'll be instantly killed, but that's just because of how stupid big of a threat it is.

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

I’m glad they’re aware of the Heliod combo. Wish they’d ban a part of it so people won’t hoard Heliod for this silly and likely temporary reason.

Can we just ban Oko in commander and call it a day?

I think it's still very possible that Oko will end up banned in commander....
mainly because transforming commanders to elks is FAR stronger than removing them by destroying, exiling or whatever.
people may start complaining and labeling it "unfun" and then it becomes banned there as well.

It doesn't look like that for now, but Oko can make your commander into a Elk and then steal it next turn....
when that happens in 1x1 commander you think you need to rethink your life... lol.

Escape is simply too expensive of a mechanic.
you need 4, 5, 6 cards in your grave for every escape... you can't really have that many up to use Escape as a toolbox.

Escape is a great mechanic, but I guess you'll be running a couple escape cards and that's all really.
if you want to build your strat around escape, it will probably be to escape the same card over and over, not to escape a ton of different stuff.

absolute limited bomb. totally crazy.

on constructed, if there's a good azorius control deck this guy could be the finisher.....

I think this might be maindeckable in the next standard with the tons of enchantment creatures and stuff.

OMFG.
this card is CRAZY.

I'll be very surprised if it somehow doesn't help to define this standard.

I love this card.... damn!

hope it doesn't cost a fortune, I want at least 2 right now.

damn, what a weird card.

it´s like a forced evoke... lol.

you cast it, it´s like Explore for one extra mana, with 3 life attached.
then you need to recast it through Return, and it does the same thing again and leaves a 6/6 behind.

good thing the "explore" side will resolve before the sacrifice.... so I can do something pretty janky and run this dude alongside Sundial of the Infinite lulz

holy crap.

that green card is PUSHED.
also very niche.... and I'm not sure standard will have a deck that needs it.... but even so, damn.

what a great common for Limited!

infinite "cyclings" por 2R is just too damn useful.
specially in a set where cards in graveyard are important to fuel the return mechanic.

Quote from EasyLover »

The first option is trash d:(

the second option is also pretty bad.

barring stuff like Boros Reckoner or something this tends to be FAR worse than Murder or something like that.

at the very least, they should allow you to split the damage between multiple targets or something because X spells were never for removal, really... you always used them to throw at face and in case of dire need, you kill a creature with it.... but you'd normally prefer to use Lightning Bolt and friends for that.

Quote from user_938036 »

This idea is very bad but not dumb. It's just broken as heck. Essentially free ramp is a very significant upside that makes the downside of ETBT rather insignificant even if the ramp is conditional on having extra lands in your hand.

I don't think it's broken at all....
it generates only 1 type of mana.
it will only make a difference as ramp if you drop it on turn 1 and you don't miss your first 4 land drops.

T1: drop land tapped, so, no other cards played.
T2: gain "free" tapped land drop, drop second regular land, get 2 mana (0 ramp)
T3: need to have a 4th land to have gained any advantage AT ALL.

it's not free ramp by any means.
it's slow and clunky, works fine as card design, IMO.
doesn't seem broken at all.

even assuming you have a crapton of these lands....

T1: drop the land
T2: drop a second of this land from the first trigger, play another one of those. (has only 1 mana this turn)
T3: drop 2 other "free" ones of those and another from hand (has 2 mana this turn)
T4: drop 3 lands for the trigger and another land from hand. (has 7 mana here plus 3 tapped land... 10 total lands with no other cards in hand if on play) and you did nothing so far.

at the end of the day, it's a very interesting design.

it's decent at starting hand and a pretty bad draw from midgame onwards.

not sure on how to evaluate this.

2BG for a 6/6 body is great.
3 mana at instant speed for it to fight anything is amazing.

the fact that it has no built in way to recover the counters it loses is a BIG letdown.

6/6 for 4 without any evasion at all wouldn't see play in today's standard....
one that loses a ton of power if it ever fights anything relevant or is blocked/burned is also a big drawback.

If I was to bet I'd say this thing is nowhere near good enough for constructed....
but stats are so inflated that I'm not really sure.

good card is good.

premium removal for standard at uncommon.
this will most likely be extensively played on standard, probably as a 4of in every deck that runs a good quantity of black permanents.