So I have been trying to come up with a name for the deck because it just makes it cooler if you can call it something other than Atraxa Stax (no offense Joseph). For instance, my Mimeoplasm list was called "The Secret of Mim," and my Daxos list was called "Enchantress's Wake." Sadly, the best name I have come up with is a little more lewd than I would like: Atraxas' Orbs. I guess Atraxa: Orb Control could work but it feels unimaginative.
Well I played a few games tonight, the deck is really fun, Joseph list is awesome and the games helped me understand the list better.
Some of my conclusions (along with your advice guys):
-I took out Skittles not for the triple black but became I wanted to trim the higher end of the curve.
-Also took out Zur the enchanter, I'm convinced he can be great for the deck but I had to take out something and he was a 4CMC card. Next time I want to try him (maybe instead of a PWs or an enchantment). Damnosus idea of using him along with Contamination is worth trying.
-Took out Deathrite Shaman and I'm thinking of trying him instead of Noble Hierarch manly to have more graveyard hate (I didn't need this time because there was a lot of GH from another player but I can't always count on that).
-Tried Imperial Seal on a few goldfish games and it was too slow, made me sad since I try to use it in every black deck still it's a great card.
-Damnosus was spot on about Narset Transcendent played 1 game and ended up taking her out, not enough cards for her +1 and -2 to be relevant. She fizzled a lot and the rebound wasn't very relevant (I did tried her in the Superfriends version and there she's very good, even more so rebounding wrath effects).
-Also I took out 1 forest. It's hard to go down to 33 lands when 1 can't generate mana so it's like having 32 but I needed one more space and it worked out.
-Played 2 games with my friends tonight and Chains of Mephistopheles didn't work out for me, on one game I didn't want to play it because I needed the extra cards and in the other game it stopped 2 players from comboing out but it also stopped me too from winning and it gave the game to the Rafiq player.
The card is great as a meta call if you have many storm like decks.
-Never drew (or tutored) Ichor Rats so I still haven't try the poison route and Astral Cornucopia (I was tempted to cut it but I want to play with it first).
Overall I'm pretty happy with the deck.
That's awesome! Glad things are working out for you.
A couple extra thoughts on your list that might allow you to change some things. First, Tabernacle, while a great card, could potentially screw you over. When we have the lock up, mana for us is often at a premium and we do need to keep Atraxa around a good deal of the time. Additionally, I am always super hesitant to play lands that don't produce mana (unless I am playing Exploration type cards that allow me to maintain constant mana drops despite awkward lands like that).
Second, Armageddon and Ravages of War. Do we really need the redundancy? I honestly don't know. Something to think about though.
Ok so I know everyone is jumping on the bandwagon, but I am gonna call out Skittles one last time. Can the mana base really support him? Sure casting him should be fine, but hasting him is rough without Urborg, and keeping up regen mana is even worse. I know we play Necropotence, but that is very much a one and done deal. Ok I am done...
As for the above list, I am unsure how good Chains are. Yea they are old and expensive, but that doesn't necessarily make them effective. If you want to play like that I would much prefer something like Notion Thief. Similar issue with Imperial Seal. Remember, we are not playing combo, so getting every last tutor isn't entirely necessary mostly because we play so much redundancy.
As mentioned before, I am not a huge fan of narset.
Honestly, your list looks like the OPs plus money.
For the record, Nature's Lore is the exact same card as Three Visits. Much cheaper too. Only reason I run 3 visits is because I picked one up ages ago when I was running both in a deck. I also kinda prefer Farseek to Tithe. Yea it costs one more, but it has more targets and goes directly into play (so it is actual ramp, not just fixing).
I like my mana base a lot: 6x ABU duals, 6x Shocks, 10x Fetches, 5 basics (1 of each, with an additional forest), Command tower, Mana Confluence, City of Brass, Reflecting Pool, Urborg (due to Necropotence), Inkmoth nexus, Strip Mine for 34 lands.
As an aside, I am really digging our collective decklists: it is finally looking like something decently scary while still feeling like something that could only be done with Atraxa at the helm (I find a lot of competitive decklists tend to look the same). So bravo there!
Vraska has been a favorite for me. I blow up stuff constantly as she is an answer for everything. Great Brago target as well for double hits.
But is she a 5 mana answer for one nonland thing or does she actually hit multiple things without the help of Brago? If it is most often the former, then she is bad straight up. Might as well play Maelstrom Pulse and Snapcaster Mage.
No I do think season is necessary-it is basically our secondary win condition (if Atraxa lock goes south). I was just saying that just because zur can't grab season does not mean that zur is a bad card for the deck.
Not enough enchants to matter for due to go for. Can't get doubling season.
But Zur can get Stasis, Necropotence, Sylvan Library, Pernicious Deed, Bitterblossom, etc. Plus, you don't need to cast them. I have seen other decklists use him to first grab Mana Vortex, then Necropotence, then Exploration. In many ways her is scarier than Brago. Besides, we don't always want doubling season-season is only good if we have things to combo with it. Zur grabs things that don't need to combo.
Honestly, I am thinking of adding Zur the Enchanter. He can nab most of the enchantments that we are looking to run.
Also, any thoughts on Quirion Ranger? I know it is kinda random, but it was specifically designed to combat stasis which can be useful if we want to break parity.
EDIT:nvm she is pretty terrible. I just wanted to point out her existence.
Ok, so after seeing the thread about nonbasic land destruction, I am having a bit of a change of heart regarding Cornucopia versus Lantern (we still should only run one). Yes, Cornucopia is really cool with Atraxa, however, we will not always have her, and without her it is a crappier Darksteel Ingot. Lantern allows us to get around Blood Moon effects and if our nonbasics have been destroyed, gives our basics more reach. So Cornucopia can get more broken, but Lantern is more consistent. I honestly don't know which is better though.
Otherwise, here are the cards that I feel are the weakest in your current list. Please keep in mind, the majority of these are not bad, I am just trying to be ultra nitpicky.
Eternal Witness: Love the card, but it is kinda meh if we can't abuse it. We have Venser, but we also have Topor Orb.
Brago: an interesting card, but he only works if he connects (unlike Derevi).
Grafdigger's Cage: hurts reanimator, but does bupkis to recursion. Might I suggest Scavenging Ooze (which sorta combos with Atraxa).
Pentad Prism: Terrible without Atraxa (Crawler can create its own counters). Walkers already give enough redundancy.
Armageddon: do we need to nuke all lands when we are already tapping it down?
Idyllic Tutor: so so tutor, plus we don't run a huge number of enchantments.
Muddle the Mixture: both ultra slow and ultra limiting.
Narset Transcendent: a decent walker, but is it really necessary?
Vraska: doesn't do enough. You are basically using her for one ability.
Karn: His plus 1 is not so great and his ult doesn't combo well with Doubling Season.
Ugin: just ultra expensive to cast. Remember stax needs to keep things low.
Sorry for missing that about Nether Void and Grim Tutor in your "Alternatives" section. I see what you're saying about mana bloom and pentad prism; but chronatog does the same thing without needing your commander. Chronatog + Stasis + Orb of Dreams is basically a win if people are tapped out. Similarly to Torpor Orb and Hushwin Gryff, redundancy is never bad if it contributes to your game plan, right? ETB hate's a meta call, though. If you have a high prevalence of activated abilities in your meta, Dovin Baan is better than Kaya, Ghost Assassin. I just was imagining using dovin baan to draw some cards, while Kaya makes everyone discard while you draw cards while also providing the flexibility to blink problem permanents. Actually, no. Dovin Baan is never better than Kaya. Why would you settle for giving a creature -3/-0 when you could just exile it? With Kaya you can also remove things with annoying passive abilities like Ethersworn Canonist or Azusa, Lost but Seeking. The only downside to Kaya is the life loss, but this is commander. You've got 40, right? You could try Linvala, Keeper of Silence for more redundancy for beating those pesky Arcum Dagson decks.
Already discussed some points above so I'll just talk about the other stuff. Ghost Quarter vs Wasteland: Wasteland is clearly better if you expect to be destroying broken nonbasics a lot of the time. Ghost Quarter, though, let's you destroy basic lands. This let's you stop Earthcraft combos such as Squirrel Nest + Earthcraft or Ghave, Guru of Spores + Sigil Captain + Earthcraft. It also stops Utopia Sprawl like enchantments. I would ideally run both tbh.
Derevi stax is amazing. Especially in a deck that always has access to Derevi and can take advantage of her activated ability, which this deck does not. I'm not saying it's bad.
Bloom+Pentad Prism as combo pieces just seem too weak. Proliferate only works if the counters are already there, meaning you can't use up Pentad Prism for mana elsewhere in case you draw Stasis and then can't combo with it.
At the time of my posting there was no counterspell or swan song, just arcane denial.
Redundancy is getting thrown around like it's a bad word. Having two cards that do a powerful effect isn't bad. It just increases consistency.
Chronatog has two major disadvantages going for it: first, it is almost completely useless otherwise (Pentad Prism/Mana Bloom aren't super great, but they can always be used for mana). Second, and more importantly, your opponents can punish you by playing out the entire game. Yea, you may have won, but do you want to wait another 15 minutes before the next game? Still it isn't a bad choice. Honestly though, I think we have enough redundancy with our walkers: Teferi, Garruk, Tezzeret, and Venser all hold a hard lock without skipping turns and without needing Atraxa. It might just be in our best interest to drop Mana Bloom/Pentad Prism. Crawler is still a possibility because he is pretty awesome on his own. Redundancy isn't a bad thing, I just feel like people keep forgetting that our walkers already created redundancy. With the 4 walkers above, and Bloom/Prism, that is 6 pieces that combo with stasis. What happens if stasis is removed? Yea they kinda combo with the Orbs but not to the same degree. I think we need to rely less on both Atraxa and Stasis because they will not always be around, thus my assertion to run Doubling Season for Walker wins.
First, Kaya cannot "blink problem permanents:" she can only blink herself or creatures. Second, this is ETB central. There are so many creatures that I would prefer not to blink (there is a reason Mystifying Maze is a so so card). Yes, we could blink our own creatures, however, the deck runs very few ETBs so not the greatest argument, plus then we are leaving ourselves open for a possible attack (which will likely kill Kaya or worse). Third, it is worse against commanders because they can just be placed back into the command zone. In some cases that would be great, but in others that would be terrible (untap, play high tide, replay Azami, go infinite?). Fourth, the discard is very minor (in EDH you have to go big with discard or go home). There is a very good chance that we could be helping a deck with that discard. Fifth, her second ability is almost pointless (so you are comparing a walker with 2 abilities versus 3). Finally, you aren't building to anything with Kaya. In my list, Dovin can be used as either a creature deterrent, to draw cards, or as a one sided Winter Orb (I run Doubling Season). Kaya builds to nothing.
The instance that you described is literally the only time that Ghost Quarter is better than Wasteland and even then it is sorta awkward because hitting the squirrel nest is not the optimal play, hitting the Earthcraft is. Yea it might be your only option, but even then that player will very likely have other ways to combo with Earthcraft. It will only slow them down. More importantly is the tempo loss you suffer by using a card like that. Normally a wasteland will set 2 players back a turn meaning that you can scrabble out of the tempo hole you created. Having 3 opponents ahead is often too much. Also, how does it stop Ghave+Earthcraft+Sigil Captain? That only requires one mana. Why would you run both Waste and Ghost Quarter? Strip Mine is better than both.
On a different note, how come I am the only one running original Tamiyo? Do people not like her?
I am on the fence regarding Revelation. On the one hand, if I can cast it, it is great. However, our mana denial restricts us as well so... I almost want to run Ad Nauseum, but I don't know if that would be too painful...
Noble Hierarch is still a boss as it covers 75% of our mana needs, plus it pumps atraxa (we are most often going to be attacking with only her.
Top is very much not banned. Love that card.
Confidant is great if you can keep your average cmc low (plus Top/Library are a must). Since we run a fair number of walkers I am not sure how good it is. If you run Uba Mask like Joseph was originally then that is another reason to consider him.
Kaya, Ghost Assassin is going to be strictly better than Dovin Baan most times, and I would just remove Elspeth unless you really want that 1/1 every turn.
Don't play planewalkers for their ultimates.
You're running crucible and strip mine, but no Ghost Quarter?
Have you considered Chronatog for the stasis lock/mill win?
Yea Grim Tutor is just hyper expensive. I mean you might as well say "use Imperial Seal."
Kaya?? Really? Her -2 is good but otherwise she is pretty pointless. Dovin can nix a creature for a turn or better yet, he can shut down someone like Arcum. Infinitely better. Elspeth on the other hand makes Atraxa a 3 turn clock or puts down fodder for chumping or Smokestack.
Ghost Quarter...again, this sort of suggestion really makes me question your legitimacy. The next obvious choice would be Wasteland. The only reason to not play it is because the deck is so colored mana hungry.
Chronatog is great in 1v1, however, we have to deal with multiple opponents meaning decking people is not a good strategy. Death via planeswalker/Atraxa is far more efficient.
Have you ever heard of Derevi stax? The card is ridiculous with mana denial. Bloom/Prism are to combo with Stasis/Atraxa. The lands are yea...they are garbage.
Gryff is redundant (Topor Orb is there) so that is a meta call. Wargate can be ultra slow which stax does not want. Rising Waters again is a bit redundant. Carpet is entirely meta dependent. Nether Void is great but can be played around. It is also ultra expensive. I thought Counterspell and Swan Song were in there? Ancient Tomb suffers from the same issue as Mana Crypt. Chasm shouldn't be necessary as Atraxa gains life/locking people down does a good job of avoiding damage.
Needless to say, I am open to suggestions.
That's awesome! Glad things are working out for you.
A couple extra thoughts on your list that might allow you to change some things. First, Tabernacle, while a great card, could potentially screw you over. When we have the lock up, mana for us is often at a premium and we do need to keep Atraxa around a good deal of the time. Additionally, I am always super hesitant to play lands that don't produce mana (unless I am playing Exploration type cards that allow me to maintain constant mana drops despite awkward lands like that).
Second, Armageddon and Ravages of War. Do we really need the redundancy? I honestly don't know. Something to think about though.
As for the above list, I am unsure how good Chains are. Yea they are old and expensive, but that doesn't necessarily make them effective. If you want to play like that I would much prefer something like Notion Thief. Similar issue with Imperial Seal. Remember, we are not playing combo, so getting every last tutor isn't entirely necessary mostly because we play so much redundancy.
As mentioned before, I am not a huge fan of narset.
Honestly, your list looks like the OPs plus money.
As an aside, I am really digging our collective decklists: it is finally looking like something decently scary while still feeling like something that could only be done with Atraxa at the helm (I find a lot of competitive decklists tend to look the same). So bravo there!
But is she a 5 mana answer for one nonland thing or does she actually hit multiple things without the help of Brago? If it is most often the former, then she is bad straight up. Might as well play Maelstrom Pulse and Snapcaster Mage.
But Zur can get Stasis, Necropotence, Sylvan Library, Pernicious Deed, Bitterblossom, etc. Plus, you don't need to cast them. I have seen other decklists use him to first grab Mana Vortex, then Necropotence, then Exploration. In many ways her is scarier than Brago. Besides, we don't always want doubling season-season is only good if we have things to combo with it. Zur grabs things that don't need to combo.
Also, any thoughts on Quirion Ranger? I know it is kinda random, but it was specifically designed to combat stasis which can be useful if we want to break parity.
EDIT:nvm she is pretty terrible. I just wanted to point out her existence.
Otherwise, here are the cards that I feel are the weakest in your current list. Please keep in mind, the majority of these are not bad, I am just trying to be ultra nitpicky.
Eternal Witness: Love the card, but it is kinda meh if we can't abuse it. We have Venser, but we also have Topor Orb.
Brago: an interesting card, but he only works if he connects (unlike Derevi).
Grafdigger's Cage: hurts reanimator, but does bupkis to recursion. Might I suggest Scavenging Ooze (which sorta combos with Atraxa).
Pentad Prism: Terrible without Atraxa (Crawler can create its own counters). Walkers already give enough redundancy.
Armageddon: do we need to nuke all lands when we are already tapping it down?
Idyllic Tutor: so so tutor, plus we don't run a huge number of enchantments.
Muddle the Mixture: both ultra slow and ultra limiting.
Narset Transcendent: a decent walker, but is it really necessary?
Vraska: doesn't do enough. You are basically using her for one ability.
Karn: His plus 1 is not so great and his ult doesn't combo well with Doubling Season.
Ugin: just ultra expensive to cast. Remember stax needs to keep things low.
Chronatog has two major disadvantages going for it: first, it is almost completely useless otherwise (Pentad Prism/Mana Bloom aren't super great, but they can always be used for mana). Second, and more importantly, your opponents can punish you by playing out the entire game. Yea, you may have won, but do you want to wait another 15 minutes before the next game? Still it isn't a bad choice. Honestly though, I think we have enough redundancy with our walkers: Teferi, Garruk, Tezzeret, and Venser all hold a hard lock without skipping turns and without needing Atraxa. It might just be in our best interest to drop Mana Bloom/Pentad Prism. Crawler is still a possibility because he is pretty awesome on his own. Redundancy isn't a bad thing, I just feel like people keep forgetting that our walkers already created redundancy. With the 4 walkers above, and Bloom/Prism, that is 6 pieces that combo with stasis. What happens if stasis is removed? Yea they kinda combo with the Orbs but not to the same degree. I think we need to rely less on both Atraxa and Stasis because they will not always be around, thus my assertion to run Doubling Season for Walker wins.
First, Kaya cannot "blink problem permanents:" she can only blink herself or creatures. Second, this is ETB central. There are so many creatures that I would prefer not to blink (there is a reason Mystifying Maze is a so so card). Yes, we could blink our own creatures, however, the deck runs very few ETBs so not the greatest argument, plus then we are leaving ourselves open for a possible attack (which will likely kill Kaya or worse). Third, it is worse against commanders because they can just be placed back into the command zone. In some cases that would be great, but in others that would be terrible (untap, play high tide, replay Azami, go infinite?). Fourth, the discard is very minor (in EDH you have to go big with discard or go home). There is a very good chance that we could be helping a deck with that discard. Fifth, her second ability is almost pointless (so you are comparing a walker with 2 abilities versus 3). Finally, you aren't building to anything with Kaya. In my list, Dovin can be used as either a creature deterrent, to draw cards, or as a one sided Winter Orb (I run Doubling Season). Kaya builds to nothing.
The instance that you described is literally the only time that Ghost Quarter is better than Wasteland and even then it is sorta awkward because hitting the squirrel nest is not the optimal play, hitting the Earthcraft is. Yea it might be your only option, but even then that player will very likely have other ways to combo with Earthcraft. It will only slow them down. More importantly is the tempo loss you suffer by using a card like that. Normally a wasteland will set 2 players back a turn meaning that you can scrabble out of the tempo hole you created. Having 3 opponents ahead is often too much. Also, how does it stop Ghave+Earthcraft+Sigil Captain? That only requires one mana. Why would you run both Waste and Ghost Quarter? Strip Mine is better than both.
On a different note, how come I am the only one running original Tamiyo? Do people not like her?
Noble Hierarch is still a boss as it covers 75% of our mana needs, plus it pumps atraxa (we are most often going to be attacking with only her.
Top is very much not banned. Love that card.
Confidant is great if you can keep your average cmc low (plus Top/Library are a must). Since we run a fair number of walkers I am not sure how good it is. If you run Uba Mask like Joseph was originally then that is another reason to consider him.
As far as my list here is a mockup-I haven't updated it in a bit so there are a few cards that were from previous iterations:
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
//Creatures
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Bloom Tender
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Notion Thief
1 Scavenging Ooze
//Instants
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Arcane Denial
1 Beast Within
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Force of Will
1 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Swan Song
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
//Soceries
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Farseek
1 Regrowth
1 Rout
1 Three Visits
1 Time Spiral
1 Toxic Deluge
//Enchantments
1 Aura of Silence
1 Bitterblossom
1 Doubling Season
1 Exploration
1 Humility
1 Necropotence
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Rhystic Study
1 Stasis
1 Sylvan Library
1 Dovin Baan
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Venser, the Sojourner
//Artifacts
1 Astral Cornucopia
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond
1 Orb of Dreams
1 Pentad Prism
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
1 Static Orb
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Tangle Wire
1 Torpor Orb
1 Winter Orb
//Lands
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Island
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Strip Mine
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
Yea Grim Tutor is just hyper expensive. I mean you might as well say "use Imperial Seal."
Kaya?? Really? Her -2 is good but otherwise she is pretty pointless. Dovin can nix a creature for a turn or better yet, he can shut down someone like Arcum. Infinitely better. Elspeth on the other hand makes Atraxa a 3 turn clock or puts down fodder for chumping or Smokestack.
Ghost Quarter...again, this sort of suggestion really makes me question your legitimacy. The next obvious choice would be Wasteland. The only reason to not play it is because the deck is so colored mana hungry.
Chronatog is great in 1v1, however, we have to deal with multiple opponents meaning decking people is not a good strategy. Death via planeswalker/Atraxa is far more efficient.
Have you ever heard of Derevi stax? The card is ridiculous with mana denial. Bloom/Prism are to combo with Stasis/Atraxa. The lands are yea...they are garbage.
Gryff is redundant (Topor Orb is there) so that is a meta call. Wargate can be ultra slow which stax does not want. Rising Waters again is a bit redundant. Carpet is entirely meta dependent. Nether Void is great but can be played around. It is also ultra expensive. I thought Counterspell and Swan Song were in there? Ancient Tomb suffers from the same issue as Mana Crypt. Chasm shouldn't be necessary as Atraxa gains life/locking people down does a good job of avoiding damage.