If you are worried about UW Control, a single Vexing Shusher will win the game. Eventually, you will draw it with Scapeshift. You only lose if you let them Cryptic Command your lands to drop you below 6 Mountains.
I beat UW Control by becoming a Tireless Tracker deck that can also Scapeshift for the win.
Another neat tech I realized the other day is that you don't HAVE to play Pact and the card you found on the same turn. One game I cast a Pact at his EOT, after he left up a lot of countermagic. He let it resolve. If he countered it then he would have been tapped low on my turn. I paid for Pact on my next turn and stockpiled multiple threats in hand without having to worry about the 2GG for Pact.
It's possible to get 5 mana on turn 3. You fetch 2 valakuts and your turn 4 play becomes even stronger. Not saying it's def good but it merits some testing
Yeah, that is the corner case where it would be slightly useful. But all other times, I can't imagine it being great.
Definitely worth testing, but I'll let others do that first. I don't like testing cards that I can't justify why I include them :-P
We may want to test out Hour of Promise. It's the only card apart from Titan / Scapeshift that can fetch out Valakuts, at 5 mana. I don't think a full playset is correct though, maybe 1 or 2
I don't understand what Hour of Promise does that more Summoner's Pacts for Titans doesn't already accomplish. Sure, it's 5 mana instead of 6, but that's still a turn 4 play either way. I can see fringe cases where we have mulliganed, hit a lot of discard, and only have exactly 5 lands on turn 4. Then, Hour would be better than Titan. However, in all other cases, turn 4 Titan threatens to win the game the following turn by itself whereas Hour just threatens 6 damage from a land drop.
@Skyfoo, I don't think you need EE in the sideboard. What matchup are you bringing them in against? Affinity, use Fracturing Gust, Shatterstorm, or more Angers. Probably Fracturing in case Solemnity deck picks up. Grixis DS, use Chameleon Colossus. All creature-based go-wide decks, max out on Angers.
I used to use fracturing gust as well over shatterstorm. It's just more useful in more matches than shatterstorm. If you survive a few turns against affinity with your removal and block sac with STE, it seals the deal. The life gain makes it darn near impossible for them to ever come back. And, it helps you in other matchups where you want to kill enchantments. Like Bogles and against Blue Moon it will kill a blood moon and the Pia and Koran Nalaar tokens.
I understand it's usefulness against something like Bogles, but I don't plan to sideboard for that matchup since it's so rare to see Online.
Against Affinity, you can Shatterstorm turn 3 or Gust turn 4. That extra turn can be a LOT of damage. Can you really recoup that much life compared to what you would lose in the extra turn?
Had 1 match that was won, but I'm dumb and don't understand the deck well enough yet, luckily people in chat pointed it out, so it could be 14-1, life is life!
both 4-1's were with this list:
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Valkut, The Molten Pinnacle
2 Cinder Glade
4 Stomping Ground
4 Forest
8 Mountain
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Primeval Titan
3 Summoner's Pact
4 Explore
4 Scapeshift
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Khalni Heart Expedition
- sideboard -
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Krosan Grip
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Chameleon Colossus
3 Crumble to Dust
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Fracturing Gust
---
The 5-0 I made a change, -1 Forest, +1 Khalni Heart Expedition, & sideboard, -3 Crumble to Dust, +3 Pithing Needle
---
Messing around with all kinds of stuff, and some of it was definitely luck, but I am lovin this deck, it's doing well and hard to stop! YEA!
Nicely done!
Your list is incredibly unique. Can you comment on a few of your unusual card choices:
- Maindeck Chalice
- Only 4 fetchlands (which are great with KHE)
- 4 Explore, 0 Farseek
- 4 Forest
- Krosan Grip
- Fracturing Gust (why this over something like Shatterstorm?)
Got Top 64 in the Open this past weekend. Will probably do a writeup later. I didn't change the deck much from SCG Charlotte and Vegas other than taking out an Anger from the SB and adding a Rec Sage.
Some highlights: Played DS 6 times over the two days (5 Grixis, 1 Esper). My Esper opponent played against Grixis 8 times in day 1 (went 7-1), talk about metagaming.
Placed 53th overall (10-5). Losses were to Grixis Shadow, RG Tooth and Nail, Grixis Shadow, Junk Midrange, and UWR Saheeli. The match against Saheeli was for Top 32, so his list is the one you see posted on the SCG site in 30th I think. One of the shadow losses was hard fought, the other I hit land flood both games so I don't know how to evaluate that.
Probably the last event for a while until PPTQ season.
Congrats, nookularboy! I think the singleton "Ach! Hans, Run!" is what I have been missing from my builds ;-)
Titan Shift has been doing well lately, including winning the July 4th MTGO something or other. All of the successful lists I've seen recently have run Omen, even in 2-color builds, which I think is interesting. nookular's list is the only one I've seen recently that runs KHE, which is often the most insane card in the deck!
I had a pretty sweet draw a couple games ago that I wanted to share.
Turn 1: Forest, suspend Search.
Turn 2: Mountain, play KHE.
Turn 3: Opponent tapped out. Search resolves, finding Mountain. Play Tireless Tracker. Play fetchland, getting a clue. Pop fetchland for Cinder Glade, getting a clue. Pop KHE for 2 Mountain, getting 2 clues. Play Relic of Progenitus.
Turn 4: Start the turn with 6 lands, 4 clues, Tracker, and Relic. Pop Relic, drawing Titan, play Cinder Glade, get a 5th clue, and play Titan!
The lists that run 2 forest are usually Jund or Naya.
And they typically will run a plains or a swamp over the 3rd forest, which makes perfect sense.
Cutting a forest in a straight RG list does not make sense to me.
I find that my games against Grixis DS come down to being able to natural Valakut them out. If I get stalled on Mountain count such that I can't do that, then I lose much more often.
I think about it this way: "what decks care about my having basic Forests, and how much of the metagame do they represent"? 1 of the top 13 Modern decks (according to MTG Goldfish) play Blood Moon, and that is UR Storm in the sideboard. Affinity may run 1-2 sideboard, but that's a maybe. Storm is already a tough matchup, so Blood Moon doesn't change my win percentage much. If none of the decks I expect to face and beat are Blood Moon decks (which is really the only reason to run basic Forests over duals), then I am better off with other lands instead.
In my last 130 League matches Online, I have played against UR Storm 6 times and 0 other decks that run Blood Moon.
I'm not saying 2 Claims is weird. I'm saying it seems like overkill to run 1 Sage, 1 Grudge, 2 Claim, AND 2 Beast Within.
Axel, I disagree on Forest count. If you expect Blood Moon, just prioritize basic Forest. Once you have the first, you can easily get the second. There have been a few successful lists lately only running 2 Forest.
Hi guys, going to an IQ this weekend and I am looking for feedback for the following list:
Your list is pretty typical other than Pia. Did you have specific questions? If not, then specific card choices really just come down to personal preference. For example, I run a mono-green maindeck and have been doing well with it. Others prefer red removal. Others prefer a black splash. There is no "right" answer.
I would say your sideboard looks pretty random. Did you have a specific plan for each of those cards, or did you just throw in stuff that sounded good? For example, why 2 Claim, 1 Grudge, 1 Sage, and 2 Beast Within? What enchantments are you worried enough about that you need 2 Claim? Grudge is much better against Affinity, and Beast Within is passable as an answer to Blood Moon.
This list is a lot closer to older builds (looks a lot more like what I play), with two unconventional SB choices (2 Chameleons and 1 Leyline).
I know Bay browses here occasionally, so I'd like to hear his take on those three cards in particular over the course of his testing and this challenge event.
Thanks for the heads up!
Also interesting is his mana base: 2 Forest, 6 Mountain, 8 RG duals, instead of the "normal" 3 Forest, 7 Mountain, 6 RG duals.
Comparing his maindeck to mine shows the following differences (+ means changing his deck to become mine):
+3 Courser
+1 Tracker
+2 Relic
+2 KHE
-4 Bolt
-2 Omen
-2 Anger
I'm still not big on Omen, and I love KHE. But with so much GW Company and BW Eldrazi Online, I could see moving back to a more "traditional" build with maindeck red removal.
I just started running 1 Chameleon sideboard but haven't used it yet. I would also be interested to hear his experience with it.
Hi guys! I would like to ask you about the tron match since Im loosing against it a lot.
Im playing the 3 chandra version with 1 wood elf, and my sideboard is this:
3 baloth
2 relics
2 grafdiggers cage
2 claim
2 ancient grudge
1 anger of gods
2 chameleon collosus ( I like this one over hornet nest)
1 kitchen finks (was thinking about adding 1 crumble, but burn is also a bit meh match)
Thanks!
Unless you dedicate sideboard slots to Tron, you just have to hope they don't have turn 3-4 Karn or Ulamog. Other than that, they don't interact with what you are doing.
Good sideboard cards are Crumble (very narrow, really only for Tron) or Beast Within (good against other decks, too).
You can also apply pressure with creatures like Tireless Tracker, which really just redirects Karn's exile ability from your lands to your creature.
Btw, I LOVE the idea of Chameleon Colossus instead of Hornet Nest! I'm going to have to try that out. Grixis DS can't counter it since they only run Stubborn, so it's going to hit the board. And when it does, it's much more threatening than Hornet!
I never brought in Baloth against other grindy matchups. Yes, it's great if you surprised a LotV or K-Command, but how often does that come up? They will likely know it's in your hand from previous discard. So, if them knowing about it negates the discard effect's usefulness, then Thragtusk is a ton better in grindy midrange matchups. It requires 2 removal spells, is LotV-proof, can trade with bigger Goyfs, and can't be killed with Fatal Push. Against what decks do you bring Baloth in?
Every time I've tried bringing in Baloth, I really hated it except when they made me discard it. I much prefer Tireless Tracker against midrange.
I do agree that I'd MUCH rather have turn 3 Baloth than turn 4 Thragtusk against Burn.
EE - Do you bring this in against Grixis DS? Yes, it kills DS, but they have just as many delve threats that it doesn't touch... That's a good point about CoCo. Post-board against them, I have 4 Bolt, 3 Anger, 1 Chandra, which is a bit lighter on removal than I prefer.
Cycle Dual - has this been working well for you? Running only 1 seems like you will RARELY ever topdeck it mid-game and get to use the cycling. It seems like you'll be more likely to get it early game when it stunts your development.
Lavamancer - I need to try that in the sideboard! That would really help against so many decks that are prevalent Online. Good tech! I'm not very excited about Chandra, so I'll try Lavamancer in her place and maybe try to squeeze 1 more in.
Finished 11-4 as well , lost to Grishoalbrand, Eldrazi (both game nut draw with double temple, curving TKS smasher smasher), Grixis DS (3-1 vs it in the tourney), and last round to 8rack.
Few closing thoughts on some of the card choices over the weekend:
- Relic was great, it should be a maindeck 3-4 of in the current meta
- my teammate (he went 12-3) and I both played a singleton primal commend, and it was great for us
- Thragtusk is a trap in sb, just play baloths
- EE was great
- have a real plan against blood moon, not just relying on 1 for 1 solution like rec sage. We both had a back to nature, and alternate whammies in sb (i had 13emmy, my teammated had a ugin)
- don't play hornet nest (we cut it entirely)
- Chandra is very medium (we have 0 in our 75 this weekend), doesn't kill most of DS's threats, and just dies to any go wide deck. She is a good card, and will have another time to shine in a different meta
- if you use expedition well, it is one of the most powerful card against DS
- Don't play a third forest
- Don't go less than 4 stomping
I have come to many of the exact same conclusions for the deck.
1) Relic - I maindeck 4. Worst-case, you cycle them game 1 (we often have 1 extra mana) and board them out. Or, you just win turn 1 against some decks.
2) Primal - I used to run it but ended up cutting it. A 5cc Sorcery will just get Stubborn Denial'd against DS. Against other decks, I'd rather have Pact. It's nice to have a maindeck out to Blood Moon or Leyline of Sanctity, but I rarely face those Online.
3) Thragtusk - Can you elaborate here? I have found Thragtusk AMAZING against DS. It's much worse against Burn, but that's why I run 3 maindeck Courser. Against something like 8-Rack, Baloth is better, but I have 4 Trackers post-board.
4) EE - I considered running it in the side, but it seems very slow. When do you want this over Anger? Do you splash to get X=3?
5) Blood Moon - I don't see any Blood Moons Online, but my plan is 4 Tireless Tracker (post-side), 4 Titan, 3 Courser, 1 Chandra. How was 13Emmy for you? You often get it reduced by 3 (land, sorcery, creature), max 5 (enchantment, instant). Best-case, it costs 8, which seems way too expensive for the effect.
6) Hornet Nest - I recently put them back into the sideboard but haven't had a chance to use them yet. They aren't amazing in some configurations of Titan Shift, but I like them in mine. Against Grixis DS, my post-board threats are:
2 Pact
3 Courser
2 Hornet Nest
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Titan
0 Scapeshift
I overload on creatures, so Hornet is very unlikely to be killed with non-damage removal.
7) Chandra - I board 1 against Eldrazi decks, but otherwise I agree that she's not great right now.
8) KHE is insane against DS, especially Grixis. If you get out a Valakut, you can really screw up their combat math and kill them out of nowhere.
9) 3rd Forest - 100% agree. I put in an 8th green fetchland instead of 3rd Forest. It helps with KHE and Tracker.
10) Stomping - I could see 4 Stomping, 3 Glade over 1 basic Mountain. Do you run 2 or 3 Glades? I love the ability to play untapped duals later in the game and save on life. I will often fetch for Stomping turns 1 or 3, and then Glades the rest of the game. With 3 Stomping, 2 Forest, 8 fetchlands, I have a good number of ways to get turn 1 green for Search. That's the main time it makes a difference.
I beat UW Control by becoming a Tireless Tracker deck that can also Scapeshift for the win.
Another neat tech I realized the other day is that you don't HAVE to play Pact and the card you found on the same turn. One game I cast a Pact at his EOT, after he left up a lot of countermagic. He let it resolve. If he countered it then he would have been tapped low on my turn. I paid for Pact on my next turn and stockpiled multiple threats in hand without having to worry about the 2GG for Pact.
Yeah, that is the corner case where it would be slightly useful. But all other times, I can't imagine it being great.
Definitely worth testing, but I'll let others do that first. I don't like testing cards that I can't justify why I include them :-P
I don't understand what Hour of Promise does that more Summoner's Pacts for Titans doesn't already accomplish. Sure, it's 5 mana instead of 6, but that's still a turn 4 play either way. I can see fringe cases where we have mulliganed, hit a lot of discard, and only have exactly 5 lands on turn 4. Then, Hour would be better than Titan. However, in all other cases, turn 4 Titan threatens to win the game the following turn by itself whereas Hour just threatens 6 damage from a land drop.
@Skyfoo, I don't think you need EE in the sideboard. What matchup are you bringing them in against? Affinity, use Fracturing Gust, Shatterstorm, or more Angers. Probably Fracturing in case Solemnity deck picks up. Grixis DS, use Chameleon Colossus. All creature-based go-wide decks, max out on Angers.
I understand it's usefulness against something like Bogles, but I don't plan to sideboard for that matchup since it's so rare to see Online.
Against Affinity, you can Shatterstorm turn 3 or Gust turn 4. That extra turn can be a LOT of damage. Can you really recoup that much life compared to what you would lose in the extra turn?
Also, GGG seems much harder to get than RR.
Nicely done!
Your list is incredibly unique. Can you comment on a few of your unusual card choices:
- Maindeck Chalice
- Only 4 fetchlands (which are great with KHE)
- 4 Explore, 0 Farseek
- 4 Forest
- Krosan Grip
- Fracturing Gust (why this over something like Shatterstorm?)
Thanks!
Congrats, nookularboy! I think the singleton "Ach! Hans, Run!" is what I have been missing from my builds ;-)
Titan Shift has been doing well lately, including winning the July 4th MTGO something or other. All of the successful lists I've seen recently have run Omen, even in 2-color builds, which I think is interesting. nookular's list is the only one I've seen recently that runs KHE, which is often the most insane card in the deck!
[edit] MTGSalvation forums puts us back to tier 1
Turn 1: Forest, suspend Search.
Turn 2: Mountain, play KHE.
Turn 3: Opponent tapped out. Search resolves, finding Mountain. Play Tireless Tracker. Play fetchland, getting a clue. Pop fetchland for Cinder Glade, getting a clue. Pop KHE for 2 Mountain, getting 2 clues. Play Relic of Progenitus.
Turn 4: Start the turn with 6 lands, 4 clues, Tracker, and Relic. Pop Relic, drawing Titan, play Cinder Glade, get a 5th clue, and play Titan!
Not too shabby
I find that my games against Grixis DS come down to being able to natural Valakut them out. If I get stalled on Mountain count such that I can't do that, then I lose much more often.
I think about it this way: "what decks care about my having basic Forests, and how much of the metagame do they represent"? 1 of the top 13 Modern decks (according to MTG Goldfish) play Blood Moon, and that is UR Storm in the sideboard. Affinity may run 1-2 sideboard, but that's a maybe. Storm is already a tough matchup, so Blood Moon doesn't change my win percentage much. If none of the decks I expect to face and beat are Blood Moon decks (which is really the only reason to run basic Forests over duals), then I am better off with other lands instead.
In my last 130 League matches Online, I have played against UR Storm 6 times and 0 other decks that run Blood Moon.
I'm not the only one playing just 2 Forests. Bayesta_93 went 6-0 in the Modern Challenge: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/683372#online
Axel, I disagree on Forest count. If you expect Blood Moon, just prioritize basic Forest. Once you have the first, you can easily get the second. There have been a few successful lists lately only running 2 Forest.
Your list is pretty typical other than Pia. Did you have specific questions? If not, then specific card choices really just come down to personal preference. For example, I run a mono-green maindeck and have been doing well with it. Others prefer red removal. Others prefer a black splash. There is no "right" answer.
I would say your sideboard looks pretty random. Did you have a specific plan for each of those cards, or did you just throw in stuff that sounded good? For example, why 2 Claim, 1 Grudge, 1 Sage, and 2 Beast Within? What enchantments are you worried enough about that you need 2 Claim? Grudge is much better against Affinity, and Beast Within is passable as an answer to Blood Moon.
Thanks for the heads up!
Also interesting is his mana base: 2 Forest, 6 Mountain, 8 RG duals, instead of the "normal" 3 Forest, 7 Mountain, 6 RG duals.
Comparing his maindeck to mine shows the following differences (+ means changing his deck to become mine):
+3 Courser
+1 Tracker
+2 Relic
+2 KHE
-4 Bolt
-2 Omen
-2 Anger
I'm still not big on Omen, and I love KHE. But with so much GW Company and BW Eldrazi Online, I could see moving back to a more "traditional" build with maindeck red removal.
I just started running 1 Chameleon sideboard but haven't used it yet. I would also be interested to hear his experience with it.
Unless you dedicate sideboard slots to Tron, you just have to hope they don't have turn 3-4 Karn or Ulamog. Other than that, they don't interact with what you are doing.
Good sideboard cards are Crumble (very narrow, really only for Tron) or Beast Within (good against other decks, too).
You can also apply pressure with creatures like Tireless Tracker, which really just redirects Karn's exile ability from your lands to your creature.
Btw, I LOVE the idea of Chameleon Colossus instead of Hornet Nest! I'm going to have to try that out. Grixis DS can't counter it since they only run Stubborn, so it's going to hit the board. And when it does, it's much more threatening than Hornet!
I never brought in Baloth against other grindy matchups. Yes, it's great if you surprised a LotV or K-Command, but how often does that come up? They will likely know it's in your hand from previous discard. So, if them knowing about it negates the discard effect's usefulness, then Thragtusk is a ton better in grindy midrange matchups. It requires 2 removal spells, is LotV-proof, can trade with bigger Goyfs, and can't be killed with Fatal Push. Against what decks do you bring Baloth in?
Every time I've tried bringing in Baloth, I really hated it except when they made me discard it. I much prefer Tireless Tracker against midrange.
I do agree that I'd MUCH rather have turn 3 Baloth than turn 4 Thragtusk against Burn.
EE - Do you bring this in against Grixis DS? Yes, it kills DS, but they have just as many delve threats that it doesn't touch... That's a good point about CoCo. Post-board against them, I have 4 Bolt, 3 Anger, 1 Chandra, which is a bit lighter on removal than I prefer.
Cycle Dual - has this been working well for you? Running only 1 seems like you will RARELY ever topdeck it mid-game and get to use the cycling. It seems like you'll be more likely to get it early game when it stunts your development.
Lavamancer - I need to try that in the sideboard! That would really help against so many decks that are prevalent Online. Good tech! I'm not very excited about Chandra, so I'll try Lavamancer in her place and maybe try to squeeze 1 more in.
I have come to many of the exact same conclusions for the deck.
1) Relic - I maindeck 4. Worst-case, you cycle them game 1 (we often have 1 extra mana) and board them out. Or, you just win turn 1 against some decks.
2) Primal - I used to run it but ended up cutting it. A 5cc Sorcery will just get Stubborn Denial'd against DS. Against other decks, I'd rather have Pact. It's nice to have a maindeck out to Blood Moon or Leyline of Sanctity, but I rarely face those Online.
3) Thragtusk - Can you elaborate here? I have found Thragtusk AMAZING against DS. It's much worse against Burn, but that's why I run 3 maindeck Courser. Against something like 8-Rack, Baloth is better, but I have 4 Trackers post-board.
4) EE - I considered running it in the side, but it seems very slow. When do you want this over Anger? Do you splash to get X=3?
5) Blood Moon - I don't see any Blood Moons Online, but my plan is 4 Tireless Tracker (post-side), 4 Titan, 3 Courser, 1 Chandra. How was 13Emmy for you? You often get it reduced by 3 (land, sorcery, creature), max 5 (enchantment, instant). Best-case, it costs 8, which seems way too expensive for the effect.
6) Hornet Nest - I recently put them back into the sideboard but haven't had a chance to use them yet. They aren't amazing in some configurations of Titan Shift, but I like them in mine. Against Grixis DS, my post-board threats are:
2 Pact
3 Courser
2 Hornet Nest
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Titan
0 Scapeshift
I overload on creatures, so Hornet is very unlikely to be killed with non-damage removal.
7) Chandra - I board 1 against Eldrazi decks, but otherwise I agree that she's not great right now.
8) KHE is insane against DS, especially Grixis. If you get out a Valakut, you can really screw up their combat math and kill them out of nowhere.
9) 3rd Forest - 100% agree. I put in an 8th green fetchland instead of 3rd Forest. It helps with KHE and Tracker.
10) Stomping - I could see 4 Stomping, 3 Glade over 1 basic Mountain. Do you run 2 or 3 Glades? I love the ability to play untapped duals later in the game and save on life. I will often fetch for Stomping turns 1 or 3, and then Glades the rest of the game. With 3 Stomping, 2 Forest, 8 fetchlands, I have a good number of ways to get turn 1 green for Search. That's the main time it makes a difference.