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  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine for Peasant Cube

    Seven Dwarves - I do a pick 1 get 4 thing with Squadron Hawks. Not sure how well that would work here


    7 of these in a 40 card deck? I think that would be unbeatable in some games.
    You're only about 29% to get 3 or more in opener + first 4 draws, if you do they're vanilla 1R 4/4s with downside on t4. But a single removal spell makes them 3/3s, which is pretty fair. It's kinda hard to evaluate how they should be played, but I don't think they're unbeatable a relevant amount of the time (7.5% to draw 4 with first 4 draws, then needing 4 lands and removal on top of that to nut draw, while still being pretty soft to removal). I'm at the very least interested in how people play them, as playing multiples later in the game seems just as viable as running them in aggro.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine for Peasant Cube
    Expect to be Good:
    Syr Konrad, the Grim - Supports everything
    Claim the Firstborn - Insanely efficient
    Venerable Knight - I don't have a ton of other knights, but this could have a sizable impact if you curve into a 2 or 3 drop knight. These abilities are flavour text most of the time anyways

    Testing:
    Kenrith's Transformation - High utility at low cost
    Seven Dwarves - I do a pick 1 get 4 thing with Squadron Hawks. Not sure how well that would work here

    Most of the set feels slightly off to me. None of the set themes have many interesting cards for gameplay seemingly due to bad theme choices (non-humans, reverse threshold, adamant) or just really uninspired cards (adventure, food). And then a lot of the cards that are interesting have really conservative number choices or a random tribal component.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Is ___________ good in Peasant?
    Oppressive Rays seems fine, but it only goes into aggro. White has better removal that goes into more decks. I could maybe see it in larger cubes with depowered removal.

    Angelic Renewal looks easy to control until you play with it. In most cases you're using it to repeat an etb anyways, so Ephemerate is likely better with less awkwardness.

    Niblis of the Urn is certainly playable, but it's pretty slow for a 2 drop. It doesn't represent much damage by itself on t2, which makes it hard to justify playing over a damaging 2 drop. I personally prefer Territorial Hammerskull, as it doesn't die to any blocker/removal and is good on curve (it's also far more of a direct comparison than Topplegeist). Topplegeist is significantly faster, filling in the less contested 1 drop slot if needed and coming down a turn earlier or tapping down a full turn before Niblis would for half the cost. Topplegeist also sees play in decks that can trigger delirium easily, so it's a bit more versatile.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine for Peasant Cube
    Grumgully, the Generous is the 5th? combo piece we have with persist, which more than enough to make it a fully fledged archetype if you want to support it. If there's a good sac engine in GWR it could definitely be consistent.

    Syr Alin, the Lion's Claw has a pretty serious issue of being alone when you cast it as it's so slow. It's 2 full turns slower than Kongming, Pianna, and Soltari Champion, which is a high cost to put additional stats on an already high priority target for removal. Even ignoring playing them on curve, being able to play something in addition to Pianna or Soltari Champion is huge. He's also a full turn slower than Scaleguard who is often better on smaller boards than larger ones and is much better into removal. I don't think Syr Alin fits in the more aggressive token shells at all and isn't enough better in the slower shells to justify including, as he isn't that much harder to kill outside of combat, which is the main issue with the 2/2 versions.

    Syr Faren, the Hedgehammer seems decent, but CC on a somewhat conditional bear is always worrying.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on The Peasant plus idea
    Consistency isn't a benefit of rare fixing by itself. Unless you're running ABUR duals, shocks, and fetches, your fixing isn't going to be better than tri-lands and vivids. In 2 colour decks unless you find the shock for your colour combination fetches are just 2 colour fixers. Even in 3 colour decks it's not unlikely that your shocks get swiped by other people in the same colours, speculating, or splashing.

    The only way you get consistency through rare lands is that the etb untapped lands are better to play many copies of. But that almost certainly only applies to 3+ colour decks, as 2 colour decks get to their source requirements (90%+ consistency) on only 2-3 duals.

    What rare fixing does do is provide etb untapped duals for aggro, which fixes the problem of aggro having bad fixing for 1 drops. I think adding shocks + fetches is really overkill in fixing this. Adding a single cycle of rare lands would probably be enough, as we also have City of Brass, Aether Hub, and Gemstone Mine for t1 fixing (Bonesplitter and the new colourless 1 drop also help). Personally I find aggro to be strong enough in my cube, so I don't see a need for it, but ymmv.

    I'm not really sure what problem rare fixing solves outside of aggro 1 drops. They certainly become higher picks than what we have now and are at a higher power level, but that's not a benefit by itself as duals are picked and played regardless of power level. Fetches + shocks also take away the trade off of power vs consistency if you can get enough of them, making 3+ colour mana bases trivial with little downside, which I wouldn't say is a good thing.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine for Peasant Cube
    I really hate reverse threshold. Threshold is good because you have so much control over it. Reverse threshold doesn't work with anything that threshold doesn't. It also punishes people for playing the most random things and bad draws. Draw both of your Evolving Wilds? Now my Into the Story is way better. Into the Story doesn't have enough over our current draw suite to justify the awkwardness anyways (if it was targeted and you supported mill maybe it would be), even if you're okay with the randomness of it.


    Ardenvale Tactician seems really solid. I saw it was a common and assumed that the adventure was a sorcery, but it's not. It's a mono-coloured Feeling of Dread that fixes the main issue of running out of gas. A 1WW 2/3 flyer isn't embarrassing either if you need to do it without adventuring.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine for Peasant Cube
    Hypnotic Sprite is awkward. Double UU on an aggressive body is awkward. Having to play the more expensive half first is awkward. The counterspell not being worthwhile at all early on the draw as it doesn't hit 4 drops is awkward. Then even if it works out you're only getting a 2/1 flyer, which doesn't really make up for it.

    Syr Karah, the Bold is really slow. I wouldn't play a 5 cost 3/3 with T: draw a card at sorcery speed, and this is has pretty minor utility to make up for impulse drawing. Optimistically you can chain burn spells together, but spending mana to impulse draw and not affect the board is not great, especially when you just spent 5 mana on a 3/3.

    Claim the Firstborn is so mana efficient it's worth a test. Hard to say without testing, but I have a hard time imagining it's not great in the hard aggro decks. Also makes combining it with a sac effect much easier: Claim + Plaguecrafter is a pretty easy 3 for 2 that can be done as early as t4. 5 is also quite a bit easier to get to for Barter in Blood than 6-7 for Wrangle/Act of Treason, same with 6 for Rakshasa Gravecaller.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Pauper sounds weirder and weirder to me every time it comes up.

    ////////

    I find dedicating slots solely to a wincon in control is overkill. UR can pretty commonly just burn the last 10+ points with some recursion and deal the rest with random utility creatures; I'm a big fan of Shreds of Sanity, which makes burn way more consistent as a wincon. UB can do something similar with Ribbons of Night/etb drain creatures and all the value creatures chipping in.

    Rise from the Tides works, but it takes a long time to fill your yard without looters and it forces a low creature count, which isn't always ideal. The tokens etbt too, which has lost me a number of games in decks that rely on Rise to win.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I don't consider combo to count as Magic, so I'm okay with that. In Richard Garfield's latest game Keyforge, infinite loops are limited to six activations per turn or something.
    I'm presuming you're talking about 2 card game winning combos. There are so few of those that actually see play I'm confused why this is an issue. Hexmage + Depths and Presence + Guard see no play outside of commander (where everything sees play). Twin and Catlady saw a lot of play but were both banned. The only 2 card combo I can think of that sees play outside of commander is Depths + Stage.

    If you're talking about combo outside of 2 card combos, WotC pretty obviously designs cards with combo in mind. Even if you ignore storm, Past in Flames, rituals, etc. due to age (which is a lot of allowances), Thousand-Year Storm is 100% a combo orientated card.

    When I stated that I'd like to play Dark Depths without the combo and as the card was intended I was called shallow minded and it was implied that what I was saying was a crazy out of line idea.

    Dark Depths played as intended is just not a good card. If you're spending 30 mana and a land drop on something that doesn't even automatically win the game you're just styling on your opponent in every format.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Indulgent Tormentor is filler, but it's hard to go too wrong with a 5 power 5 cost flyer with upside.

    Shower of Coals kills 2 random things and hits face most of the time. If you can get threshold it can be a big swing.

    Lust for War can work basically anywhere, but it's matchup dependent outside of aggro.

    Weaver of Lightning is mainly a control card in my experience as control decks can have issues with x/1s; we've gotten so many good spells matter's cards it's not always worth a slot in that deck imo. Spells-matter works very well at peasant with Murmuring Mystic/Young Pyromancer/Saheeli, Sublime Artificer. Then there's a bunch of other solid stuff you can play beyond that core which are more deck dependent: Rise from the Tides/Enigma Drake/Weaver of Lightning/Thermo-Alchemist/Pteramander.

    I tried Baleful Ammit: it was bad. 4/3 lifelink is a big threat, but it's just too fragile for the cost. Being so horrible against removal and pretty pathetic on an empty board made it feel really bad even with the "right" deck.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine for Peasant Cube
    Adventure is really interesting space. It adds a lot of utility to creature heavy decks that would need to either be expensive etbs or spells. I'm particularly interested in the U or R ones, as they act as creatures but don't hurt your spell count for Young Pyromancer and co.

    Imperial Recruiter got brought up in the general thread and adventure increases its utility a lot if we get good targets. With Order of Midnight it only costs 5 to get a Raise Dead effect with Recruiter, whereas previously it would cost 7.

    Syr Konrad, the Grim is the only card I'm interested in so far. It plays nicely with basically everything black does. Aristocrats, discard, reanimation, self mill, delve, and removal all can trigger the ability. It's so much sturdier than Blood Artist/Falkenrath Noble (which is not a noble) and actually is a good empty board play, which probably make up for the worse effect in aristocrats while still having a lot of application elsewhere.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I can't imagine Recruiter being correct to play in any deck in a way that it's actually versatile outside of maybe aristocrats. The way tutors work in almost every case is they find a shortlist of 1-3 cards that you fetch every game regardless of circumstance. Theoretically they act as a toolbox, but that's almost never the case in practice as there are very few cards that actually are worth the additional cost. In peasant there are almost no effects that are rare enough that you are constantly wanting more of them in deckbuilding, so you're effectively having a card riding on the strengths of cards like Palace Jailer. If you are actually short on payoffs Recruiter is significantly worse than just adding another payoff for that archetype to the cube, as you're not only paying an insane premium, but you're also losing the chance to draw both the card Recruiter is replacing and the tutored card. If multiple archetypes are short on payoffs then Recruiter is a band-aid solution to a bigger issue.

    If Recruiter is used to fetch purely powerful cards rather than archetype ones I see that as a fail state. Not only are you actively supporting good stuff play styles, but you're also homogenizing gameplay as a Palace Jailer type card will almost always be played, which leads to similar game states. This allows for linear deckbuilding around singular cards, which is completely against the purpose of singleton. I find it hard to believe that this usage wouldn't be the norm for Recruiter.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    My reaction was aimed more towards the attitude that cubes that are good stuff piles are better than cubes that have "on rails" synergies and how this is just an excuse to dumb down drafting because the opposite is true. Even though I'd argue that having to draft synergies is less on rails and requires you to think more than snap picking every single on-color good stuff card in ranked power order.
    On rails is used to refer to hyper specific synergies that require you to pick all the cards the cube designer puts in for that archetype. If you're trying to draft a tribal deck there's likely only going to be 1 card of that tribe in the pack, so you're railed into taking that card. No one is arguing that cubes shouldn't have synergies, they're saying that the "on rails" synergies are so specific you'd be better off with synergies that work with more cards.

    It's been my experience that getting random strangers to draft at the LGS is easier with, "It's the MTGO proxy Vintage cube you can play Black Lotus!" than "Hey want to draft a cube? It's a mostly Pauper cube." So my perception is that people prefer to Tinker -> Blightsteel you over say, a close game that takes 20 turns and involves Banding. I think I should start lying and start calling my cube an unrestricted Vintage cube, after all Timmerian Fiends and Shahrazad are banned in Vintage and Benalish Hero is vintage legal lol.
    Most people have basically no interaction with pauper/peasant cubes, so it makes total sense that people shy away from them. Even if the MTGO vintage cube isn't the best cube, I know that I can at least do some exciting stuff that's fun for a couple games; with pauper I'm not immediately coming up with cards I want to play with in the same way. And even if you know what to expect it takes a lot of time to get used to a whole new set of cards. I played pauper once and it was very clear immediately after my first game that I drafted wrong, which made close games almost impossible. If I'm only going to be playing the cube once, why would I play something I could have a horrible time with instead of something I know I can have close games with?

    1.) If I always disagree with what people here like, what I can do is use everyone as a sort of inverse springboard for ideas. So for example If I asked what people think about cutting Thraben Inspector for Shield Bearer I would likely be told not to (and probably accused of trolling because one is not allowed to question the council's judgement on The One True 360) so that to me is confirmation that my cube is built correctly.
    This doesn't really make your cube more inviting to play considering I now need to learn mechanics on top of a ton of new cards and archetypes. If I had Shield Bearer in my cube I can assure you I would spend a good 10-15min over the course of the draft explaining how banding works. Regardless of how much fun Shield Bearer is, that's a lot of time to be spending on a single card instead of playing the game. This also just paints you as a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian, which isn't a good look.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I'm fine with drawing fire, I just don't want to be banned. I don't know why you guys can't tolerate opposing view points, I don't want any of you guys banned.

    You're just kinda shifting every topic into your views on magic players. I'm fine with contrarian opinions (even if I disagree with yours), but there's a time and place for them. You're taking a discussion about unequal colour numbers and moving that to your philosophical views on the magic community as a whole. Pauper isn't Peasant Cube. X-Wing: Miniatures isn't Peasant Cube. Whatever gameplay you think is non-interactive doesn't really exist in Peasant at a relevant level, so I fail to see how most of your points are relevant to Peasant Cube.

    If you want to have a discussion on why Dash Hopes is good or why having only 3 white cards works I'm sure people will argue those points with gusto. But you seem to be mostly interested in going on about how mtg players hate mtg, which is both derailing the conversation and hardly a discussion worth having considering it seems pretty clear no one is going to change their minds.


    Honestly this entire discussion is based on a false premise- ie that consensus is at all useful for cube construction which is a matter of personal taste. Considering that I disagree with this notion there is no way for me to express my views without drawing fire.

    Cube construction is definitely personal taste and there is a lot of variation in that regard. But broadly speaking people want their cube to appeal to a large band of players. Doing efficient things, doing cool things, and doing powerful things are what people tend to enjoy (Spike, Johnny, and Timmy), so people will make their cube with those things in mind and try to allow players to do all 3. Allowing those things is what the consensus is for this community. If you don't agree with that consensus then it's likely you're not going to get much help from this board.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I will make a defense of hybrids in the guild section by saying that a number of guild cards act pretty close to hybrids, so sorting guild cards into different sections would follow the same logic, but no one does that. If both red decks and green decks always splash for Bloodbraid Elf, then it's effectively a hybrid RG card, not a guild card. I've seen Lingering Souls in basically every colour combination containing black or white, so it's hard to say it's an BW card (if you have it in the guild section). Not all decks do splash, but considering Trostani's Summoner is effectively a BGW hybrid in practice it's definitely not irrelevant. Obviously there's some more effort put into splashing than playing an actual hybrid card (though CC costs aren't trivial either), but the effect is the same if it's commonly done.

    Since the effect of sorting hybrids away from guilds is so small and trying to "correctly" codify guild sections is such a mind boggling task, I would say that it's not worth the effort to deal with hybrids differently.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
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