Quote from radouf »Hey gents, my thread search didn't give me any hard result on this:
How bad does one hurt himself by running a playset of Wooded Foothills instead of Misty Rainforests in this deck? Obviously due to card availability and/or unlimited money having not happened yet.
Thank you!
You can run 3 Foothills and 2 Flooded Strand, and Sacred Foundry instead of Stomping Ground so all your fetches can get red mana.
It's not ideal but I did it before getting my playset of Mistys. It works fine and I don't think I ever dropped a game because of it, albeit in a small sample size. It definitely has an impact on your win%, but we're talking maybe 2% or so at most.
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However, knightfall still needs a little boost for combo matchups like storm. To assist with this problem, some of us started playing meddling mage as it enables us to interact with decks in a tempo/value way that we still need to do so against. In other words, we are trying to go even deeper on the tempo/value plan as meddling mage let's us fight "fairly" against decks that normally ignore this plan entirely.
That said, Meddling Mage still somewhat suffers from the retreat to coralhelm problem as it all too frequently is an almost vanilla 2 mana 2/2 that is pretty taxing on the manabase. The big bonus though is that it can be hit off of company.
TLDR: Jace allows for a greater degree of consistency which allows us to vary our answers to other decks. Meddling mage is a great way to vary our answers
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Round 1: Affinity (2-1)
This was my only game loss to affinity across four matches. I lost to double Signal Pest with Memnite and Ornithopter. I almost stabilized, but I didn't have enough health. Game two was close, but he top decked a Blinkmoth Nexus instead of three damage. Game three was over soon after it started.
Round 2: Jeskai Control (0-2)
I didn’t establish much of a clock before Elspeth, Sun's Champion.
Round 3: R/G Tron (2-1)
She played a Pyroclasm on turn two for my turn one birds game one. Thankfully, I had a two drop and, even though she established tron, didn’t really follow it up with much. Game two she Firespout on my bird into 3/3 knight. Game 3, I had all the fun of Eldritch Evolution a Reclamation Sage into a Manglehorn to blow up an Oblivion Stone. (You can't do that with a stony silence.) I also greatly enjoyed watching my opponent play a tapped star.
Round 4: U/W Control (1-2)
Hey look, Elspeth, Sun's Champion again... (at least this time I Kessig Wolf Run on a Kitchen Finks to kill it). I feel like the U/W/X control matchup isn't that bad, but these two rounds did not go well.
Round 5: G/W Valuetown (1-2)
See round 15. That said, after this matchup, I almost wanted to drop, but I kept going.
Round 6: Affinity (2-0)
Game one, I turn two Spell Queller, turn three Spell Queller, turn four Collected Company, turn five Collected Company. Also, I think I have a little too much hate in the sideboard for this matchup. It's already pretty good pre-board.
Round 7: R/B Burn (2-0)
Game one, I was had a fast hand. Game two, well, after company hit double Kitchen Finks, my opponent conceded.
Round 8: Affinity (2-0)
Game one we both mulled to 5. The issue is, he kept an iffy 5 while I kept 2 lands, a Noble Hierarch, a Scavenging Ooze, and a Spell Queller before top-decking Collected Company and another land.
Round 9: Grishoalbrand (2-1)
Honestly, my opponent should have won this match. I kept a hand that relied vastly too much on a Noble Hierarch and my opponent Collective Brutality it and a Unified Will away. I didn't present much of a clock either. The thing is, Grishoalbrand can struggle with consistency and, well, that's what happened.
Round 10: Boros Burn (2-0)
Game one, I was just fast. Game two, he Searing Blaze my dork before Searing Blood on my Scavenging Ooze. Thankfully, I followed it up with a Kitchen Finks and he proceeded to flood while I played a Courser of Kruphix and Eldritch Evolution into another Kitchen Finks.
Round 11: Affinity (2-0)
Spell Queller is a good magic card.
Round 12: Eldrazi Tron (2-1)
He cast All is Dust game one and I nearly recovered. Had I drawn a Path to Exile or a Reflector Mage over a few turns, the game would have ended (despite a few misplays on my part). So, I had to make up for it in games two and three.
Round 13: Storm (0-2)
Well, Kazu did win the entire open... Game one, I mulled to four, and, well, enough said. Game two, let's just say that two Spell Queller, two Scavenging Ooze, an Izzet Staticaster and a Reflector Mage on his turn two Baral, Chief of Compliance weren't enough.
Round 14: Jeskai Queller (2-1)
The use of Spell Queller typically hinders their ability to run wraths. To make up for this, they run bolts and paths. This highly favors knightfall as spot removal is, in a way, pretty bad against the deck.
Round 15: Todd Stevens with G/W Valuetown (0-2) (Agreed upon draw to guarantee top 32 as neither of us could be in the top 16)
After playing the matchup twice (once against Mr. Todd Stevens), I'm beginning to think that it and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle are the worst matchups for Knightfall. Both G/W Valuetown and Knightfall are very grindy and value based, but Knightfall trades a little long term value for immediate value. For example, most of Spell Queller's value is the fact that it has flash, flying and exiles a spell. Compare that to Ramunap Excavator which almost draws an extra card every turn. Needless to say, Knightfall is the aggro deck in the matchup and it has very little hope of aggroing well given that our opponent is on a similar plan, but with a better late-game strategy.
Final takeaways: I really like Manglehorn over Stony Silence. I never drew Nissa, Steward of Elements, but she seems to deserve her spot. I really like 5 counter spells in the side. Lastly, I never got the retreat combo. In all honesty though, I want to replace the two retreats with Trackers in such an open meta.
All in all, it was fun. Any Questions?
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The basic idea of retreat is that it enables you to get "lucky." Essentially, knightfall is a tempo, midrange deck. So, when we draw "bad" cards (like scavenging ooze vs tron), we can lose tempo. The combo let's us win even when we have lost tempo. However, post-board it should be cut as the greatest loss of tempo is drawing retreat without knight. Post-board, we side out the "bad" cards for good ones. We should only have live draws. The thing is, decks like tron are hard to interact with even post-board. In those matchups, the combo stays in.
As to creature count, the more the better. Rarely can you whiff on company and still win. Also, we're running 7-8 mana dorks which usually aren't "real" huts. That said, the lowest I'm willing to ever go is 24.
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Usually what ends up happening is that we have enough of an early game that they can't kill everything/Thoughtseize it all away. Thereby, we can usually develop enough of a board at a fast enough pace to put a little pressure on them (especially since we are running so many fliers). Additionally, we can chump block their big threats fairly easily. Once we're in a semi-stable position, we just have better top decks.
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However, in terms of Nissa, Steward of Elements, the question isn't, "Does she fit into Knightfall?". Obviously, she hits over 80% of the deck with her +0 at 3 loyalty. Simply said, she will be good in this deck. Thereby, the real questions are, "What role does she play in the deck and does she play that role better than what already plays that role?"
Nissa, Steward of Elements does not play the role of disruption, does not gain life or do anything to stall the game, and does not seem to speed up our clock in any meaningful way. I would say that all she does is help us grind. Thereby, I would argue that the answer to the first question is that she grinds.
The second question, on the other hand, is vastly more complex. If we look at our deck, the cards whose main purpose is to grind would be Gavony Township, Courser of Kruphix, and Tireless Tracker. Obviously, Gavony Township is worth its weight in gold and won't be replaced (enough said). As to if Nissa is better than Tracker or Courser, the answer to that is unknown right now. However, I have no intention of trying Nissa anytime soon. Nissa seems incredibly sub-par against aggro while Courser is quite strong there. As aggro decks are at least a third of the field, I can't imagine replacing Courser with a card that wouldn't help me beat them. On the other hand, Nissa and Tracker feel quite similar in power level and role. That said, Tracker is a creature. This means I can get it off Collected Company and it can attack/block.
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Additionally, sometimes you don't have a mana-dork and need to counter something on turn 2. For example, I beat Tron in game 3 of the last round on Friday. However, I only won because I topdecked a Negate. I had a Unified Will in my hand, but as I didn't have a dork and he had a turn 3 Karn Liberated, he would have won if I didn't have that Negate. Instead, I combo killed him on turn 4.
Frequently enough, Unified Will is a worse version of Negate.
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As to Krallenhorde Howler, it's good but I can't imagine it fitting this deck. Frequently enough, I would imagine it to be slightly awkward. I say this because a little less than half the creatures we play wouldn't benefit from his effect (IE Voice of Resurgence). Even then though, imagine having a Birds of Paradise, a Forest, a Gavony Township, and Krallenhorde Howler out. In that example, you could cast Knight of the Reliquary for one less mana, but you still couldn't cast anything else. Our manabase and creatures simply aren't designed to support him.
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Against most decks, the game one can easily swing either way. To a certain degree, it depends on what you draw. For example, Scavenging Ooze isn't great against Tron. I bring this up because if you draw the wrong half of your deck, you can get behind. The combo wins no matter how far behind we are. Thereby, post-board, we remove that wrong half of the deck, but, pre-board, sometimes you just need to combo.
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Notes: I tried a three of Tireless Tracker and I quickly cut this down to a two of. My reasoning is that Tracker doesn’t really help dig for answers all too well due to how expensive clue tokens are. While Tracker is probably our best wincon, he’s slow. Against most of the meta, we already tend to be favored the longer the game goes. Thereby, I think that we don’t need that many slow cards. Thereby, I’ve started to replace tracker with Courser of Kruphix as it helps us block and helps us grind. That said, I’m still leaving in a Tireless Tracker as, once again, it generates so much card advantage that it’s almost impossible to lose if he sticks and we’re not too far behind.
I want to try a main board Blessed Alliance. Bant Eldrazi sometimes runs it main and we can better utilize the card. I feel like I run into the problem of not enough removal or too little life when I finally stabilize a little too often. Blessed Alliance helps solve that problem.
Lastly, I finally noticed something rather obvious recently. For awhile, I’ve noticed that I tend to win games 2-3 but lose game 1. I just ignored this fact, but there is a reason for it. Knightfall is first and foremost a tempo, borderline control deck. This means that we try our best to win game 1, but, frequently enough, we have to rely on winning games two and three with our about 8ish sideboard cards. Thereby, against most linear decks, we are not favored game 1. Now, enter Retreat to Coralhelm. This card is by far my least favorite in the entire deck as it is a major tempo loss. However, the combo provides us with a way to be a linear deck game 1. Post-board, we side into the eight-ish cards that let us play a nice fair game of magic, but, pre-board, frequently enough, we need a way to goldfish or we will be goldfished.