What sort of decks do your friends play? My friends are pretty casual and when I'm up against "goblin deck" and "zombie deck" it's absolutely possible to play control and win.
I think a lot of people hear "control" and think of a blue/x deck playing a lot of counterspells. But in multiplayer it can be really about having cards that answer many threats at once. I think of innocent blood and tragic arrogance as staple MP control cards that can blunt aggressive strategies and make way for a late game win. If your friends are playing a lot of "fair" decks then you probably have a lot of options for viable control decks.
If, on the other hand, you're playing against a lot of competitive, combo-oriented decks that do demand those 1-for-1 instant speed answers like counterspell then it can be much more difficult.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm always a fan of new control archetypes. I'm keen to try the adventure deck as well. I like grindy, value-oriented decks and they don't need to be too strong to work in my group.
The #1 thing I look for with each set release are new deck archetypes to try out. That could be something based on a block mechanic (e.g. Food deck) or decks that become (more) viable through the addition of additional support (e.g. Rat tribal through Piper of the Swarm) or additional copies 8-12 of an semi-unique effect (e.g. Neoform).
Are there any new deck archetypes that you folks are considering based on the new cards coming in ELD?
If you want to keep red and are worried about artifacts then Rakdos Charm seems like a good fit.
If you want to drop red, you could consider Nightveil Specter and Thief of Sanity instead of Jeleva. At the 2-drop slot you can consider Baleful Strix or Fathom Feeder, the latter of which strengthens your Eldrazi flavor and acts as a late-game mana sink too. If you want to go all the way with processors, which is what my version of this deck does, you can look at Blight Herder as another way to ramp up mana towards a big finisher. With all of those big-bodied Eldrazi, I opted for Languish as my sweeper over something like Last One Standing.
3-player games of Magic rightly have a pretty bad reputation in multiplayer magic. Most of the 3-player games that I've played where everyone brings their own deck usually work out one of two ways:
One player pulls ahead and ends up effectively playing a 2-versus-1 game
One player falls behind and becomes irrelevant or at best kingmaker while the other two players have a duel
I've been trying to think of a way to build a set of three decks specifically meant to be played against each other in a multiplayer setting where each player feels equally powerful and games are fun and interactive. Effectively I'm looking to build three-person duel decks. I'm not sure what the best way to go about this is but I have a few ideas:
This seems like it would be a good way of preventing the "one player falls behind" scenario
My main concern with going this route is that I don't want the decks to feel too similar when played. It would be nice if they were each mechanically unique while still being balanced
Give each deck cards designed to attack a specific opponent
This could provide some of the interaction I'm looking for but it also seems like it could add some unwanted variance to each game where one player might end up getting piled on because of which hate cards their opponent drew
Have any of you successfully built decks like this? Are there any lists or ideas that you would recommend?
If you want to play them they're worth buying. If you're looking for a low-effort premade deck to play, you could also pick up one of the premade commander decks and just play them as normal 100 card decks. Plenty of people in my group do that. Just swap out any cards that specifically reference a "commander".
Thanks for all the responses so far. I got my friend to update me on what him and his friends that have been playing for awhile have for decks.
'I have one of every 2 color combination and then the rainbow one, A has a zombie deck, a vampire, a populate, a devour, and a merfolk deck. then T has the blue, rat, red and black burn, stuffy doll, bears, samurai, treefolk, and giantsand all of us have an izzet red and blue'
So that's the all the decks I am/would be playing vs including the ones above. Thanks guys.
It's impossible to really know what those decks are like without knowing their actual deck lists, but I'm going to speculate a bit here. I think your play group sounds similar to mine in terms of deck power. If your friends are playing and ostensibly winning with weak tribal decks like Samurai or with decks based on gimicky, underpowered block mechanics like Devour, then most of the decks that Prid3 would post or put in the color guides would probably be too strong--which it sounds like was your experience with the Waste Not deck.
The great thing about this though is that it really frees up your options for deck building. Power/competitiveness of a card in multiplayer isn't necessarily tied to price. Some of the most powerful multiplayer cards like Sylvan Primordial or Gray Merchant of Asphodel only cost a few cents. As such, I can build almost any type of deck that's competitive (relative to my play group) and keep the budget in the $20 range--sometimes as low as the teens.
Here's an example of what I mean that I've posted in the forum before:
So instead of asking what decks are competitive on a budget it would probably be better to approach it from the angle of "what type of deck would I like to play?" I have about 50 different multiplayer decks of all different color combinations and strategy types--all around the same power level and almost all from a budget under $30 (at the time the cards were purchased). If you say what you're looking for in terms of themes or archetypes the other forum posters and I could probably name some easy suggestions.
I don't think the issue it's that you could never want a 4/4:flyer for 4. My group is casual enough that a creature like that can be just fine. I think the issue is why would you want that 4/4 flyer over anything else you could slot into that deck? Even if I we're trying to build "mono U sphinxes" on a budget, why pick Sphinx of Foresight over Curator of Mysteries? The only unique thing it does is the opening hand scry. What decks would rather have "opening hand scry 3" as opposed to "cycling U"? Your aggressive combo decks might but--to restate the review--they'd probably rather run Ponder than slot in a 4cmc beater.
Thanks for the write up. Do you think there's a niche for Sphinx of Foresight? Is there any overlap between decks that want to aggressively look for a card on turn 1 and decks that would want an ok 4/4 flier for 4?
As soon as Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur came out it drew so much hate that I didn't last much longer.
That's not really surprising given how miserable Jin-Gitaxias is to play against. It's hard to picture losing a game where you're allowed to untap with him in play. What are the other decks in your play group like? If I'm your opponent and I'm running some midrange deck that can't realistically win if I'm discarding my hand every turn starting turn 2/3, then you bet I'm aiming all my disruption at you and advocating that the other players do the same. Because otherwise we might as well just concede. If your deck is built to win on turn 2/3 and your opponents' just aren't then I only see a few options:
Make the deck less powerful. Remove oppressive cards like Jin-Gitaxias or cards like Blazing Archon that totally invalidate certain common strategies. I had a guy in my group remove Blazing Archon from his reanimator deck recently because he was tired of me always going after him first. But if I know that he's got an archon in the deck and I'm counting on winning through combat, how many options do I have?
Play the deck less often. I have an elves deck that rarely ever loses. It's a lot stronger than most of my opponents' decks. I don't want to make it less powerful because I like it and I don't want to stop playing powerful cards altogether. What's the point of owning Gaea's Cradle if you don't play it? Instead I just play it rarely so that my opponents' don't get into the habit of teaming up against me. If I ever need to break a losing streak I'll take it out. It's become a running joke in my group to say things like "don't do that to MaelstromPonderer; I don't want to play elves next"
Help your friends raise the power level of their own decks to compete. You can play your four GJs without getting ganged up on if the player next to you is playing a Waste Not combo deck.
I think a lot of people hear "control" and think of a blue/x deck playing a lot of counterspells. But in multiplayer it can be really about having cards that answer many threats at once. I think of innocent blood and tragic arrogance as staple MP control cards that can blunt aggressive strategies and make way for a late game win. If your friends are playing a lot of "fair" decks then you probably have a lot of options for viable control decks.
If, on the other hand, you're playing against a lot of competitive, combo-oriented decks that do demand those 1-for-1 instant speed answers like counterspell then it can be much more difficult.
Are there any new deck archetypes that you folks are considering based on the new cards coming in ELD?
https://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/202
https://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/4087
If you want to drop red, you could consider Nightveil Specter and Thief of Sanity instead of Jeleva. At the 2-drop slot you can consider Baleful Strix or Fathom Feeder, the latter of which strengthens your Eldrazi flavor and acts as a late-game mana sink too. If you want to go all the way with processors, which is what my version of this deck does, you can look at Blight Herder as another way to ramp up mana towards a big finisher. With all of those big-bodied Eldrazi, I opted for Languish as my sweeper over something like Last One Standing.
I've been trying to think of a way to build a set of three decks specifically meant to be played against each other in a multiplayer setting where each player feels equally powerful and games are fun and interactive. Effectively I'm looking to build three-person duel decks. I'm not sure what the best way to go about this is but I have a few ideas:
- Include hunted and/or mutually-beneficial assist cards in each deck
- This seems like it would be a good way of preventing the "one player falls behind" scenario
- My main concern with going this route is that I don't want the decks to feel too similar when played. It would be nice if they were each mechanically unique while still being balanced
- Give each deck cards designed to attack a specific opponent
- For example, if Deck A goes wide with token creatures and Deck B wants to use its graveyard then Deck C could include dedicated global damage cards and dedicated grave hate cards and maybe a few modal cards that allow the choice of either.
- This could provide some of the interaction I'm looking for but it also seems like it could add some unwanted variance to each game where one player might end up getting piled on because of which hate cards their opponent drew
Have any of you successfully built decks like this? Are there any lists or ideas that you would recommend?It's impossible to really know what those decks are like without knowing their actual deck lists, but I'm going to speculate a bit here. I think your play group sounds similar to mine in terms of deck power. If your friends are playing and ostensibly winning with weak tribal decks like Samurai or with decks based on gimicky, underpowered block mechanics like Devour, then most of the decks that Prid3 would post or put in the color guides would probably be too strong--which it sounds like was your experience with the Waste Not deck.
The great thing about this though is that it really frees up your options for deck building. Power/competitiveness of a card in multiplayer isn't necessarily tied to price. Some of the most powerful multiplayer cards like Sylvan Primordial or Gray Merchant of Asphodel only cost a few cents. As such, I can build almost any type of deck that's competitive (relative to my play group) and keep the budget in the $20 range--sometimes as low as the teens.
Here's an example of what I mean that I've posted in the forum before:
22 Stuff
Creatures
4 Agent of the Fates
4 Tormented Hero
2 Artisan of Forms
2 Ashiok's Adept
4 Triton Fortune Hunter
2 Nighthowler
2 Phyrexian Reclamation
Auras
4 Shimmering Wings
2 Sleeper's Robe
Tricks
4 Mizzium Skin
2 Triton Tactics
2 Virulent Swipe
2 Profane Command
2 Hidden Strings
So instead of asking what decks are competitive on a budget it would probably be better to approach it from the angle of "what type of deck would I like to play?" I have about 50 different multiplayer decks of all different color combinations and strategy types--all around the same power level and almost all from a budget under $30 (at the time the cards were purchased). If you say what you're looking for in terms of themes or archetypes the other forum posters and I could probably name some easy suggestions.
Just read it, thank you. I was thinking along the same lines but wasn't sure if I'd overlooked anything. Looking forward to the rest of the review.
That's not really surprising given how miserable Jin-Gitaxias is to play against. It's hard to picture losing a game where you're allowed to untap with him in play. What are the other decks in your play group like? If I'm your opponent and I'm running some midrange deck that can't realistically win if I'm discarding my hand every turn starting turn 2/3, then you bet I'm aiming all my disruption at you and advocating that the other players do the same. Because otherwise we might as well just concede. If your deck is built to win on turn 2/3 and your opponents' just aren't then I only see a few options: