Just wanted to say this deck is frigging great. Good design man. not very often I see something in CEDH forum that strikes me as really cool, and this is super cool. Nice to see something than the same pile of 30 cantrips, tutors and mana rocks with the same suite of removal spells, and then a different combo.
- OneRingToGruulThemAll
- Registered User
-
Member for 7 years, 9 months, and 6 days
Last active Fri, Jul, 22 2022 13:30:44
- 0 Followers
- 273 Total Posts
- 46 Thanks
-
1
Pokken posted a message on Ezuri, Claw of Progress - Five Counter Death PunchPosted in: Competitive Commander (cEDH) -
2
Metamind posted a message on [CUBE][RNA] Includes and Testing ResultsI'd be concerned about the lack options to interact with opposing spells without targeted discard.Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion -
10
LucidVision posted a message on [CUBE][RNA] Includes and Testing ResultsThere is an implicit design thesis on this forum. We are designing our own limited format with the most iconic and powerful magic cards of all time. You can stray from that thesis, as it's your format, and that's fine... But thoughtseize is one of the most powerful, iconic , cheap cmc black card of all time. The use of the word mistake, is under the assumption you are trying to stick to that thesis.Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
Thoughtseize is on my short list of cards I'd NEVER cut from cube, and I bet many people here feel the same.
The most likely truth is your playgroup is a group of casual players that aren't well versed in card valuation, if they aren't putting it in the main deck. It literally should never miss a main deck that plays swamps, if they are trying to win.
It's important to cater to your playgroups preference, but maybe if people started realizing how good the card actually is, they would appreciate it more. -
1
NotScottMescudi posted a message on [CUBE][GRN] Mission BriefingSnapcaster is always at least a 1-for-1, and usually a 2-for-1. This card is usually a 1-for-1 and sometimes an 0-for-1 if you’re desperate. I don’t think this card is good, and the restricting UU cost makes it pretty bad imo.Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion -
3
asmallcat posted a message on [CUBE][M19] Sarkhan, FirebloodWe wanted a red Liliana, the Last Hope. Instead we got a red Jace, Cunning Castaway.Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion -
3
Muspellsheimr posted a message on Reliquary TowerWhile it can certainly be good for some decks, the vast majority would be improved by replacing Reliquary Tower with a Basic Land.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
The card is heavily overvalued and over played. -
2
Wraith223 posted a message on Why are so many people distraught about infinite combos?I play a lot of infinite combos due to the need to be competitive. Why bring a bow and arrow tech deck to an assault rifle tech deck fight? I see so many bringing group hug, plain aggro, or a deck with a single cool combo and they complain when they loose. They lost because they wanted to win in their own race. The race the the rest of us play is NASCAR speed while they are riding bicycles. What did they expect? I paid $5 to win and bring my top game, thus it's a disservice to them for me to play on handicap. They are crappy decks and cards to match. I don't care if the cards you play do X or Y, will it win? If no, go play casual somewhere else. I am seriously tired of hearing constant complaining about fairness in combos as they want to play in their constructed sandbox on their comfort to win level. What's worse to me is that it's the older crowd. Grow up! This is not high school anymore. News flash, there are no cheat codes in magic for them to win with ease.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
"Welcome....to the real world" -
2
wtwlf123 posted a message on [AKH][CUBE] Harsh MentorMediocre in combat-centric matchups, but it has random moments where the ceiling is absurd, or it shuts off several of the opponent's cards. It has a high enough ceiling for a 1R costed card to justify the floor of being a red Grizzly Bears. The ACS has been like 2-6 direct damage (or shutting off some number of the opponent's cards) and getting in once or twice in combat before being traded away with anther body. Well worth the 2 mana.Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1
Great with Swords, can be found with Stoneforge, versatile and scales up into the late game. Very good in RG, which has lots of large tramplers. Will test.
1
3BB
Legendary Creature - Dragon Spirit (M)
Flying, menace
When Junji, the Midnight Sky dies, choose one:
- Each opponent discards two cards and loses 2 life.
- Put target non-Dragon creature card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. You lose 2 life.
5/5
Solid stats, double evasion, and a NASTY death trigger. Might be better than Doom Whisperer. If you like Baneslayer-esque 5-drops, this is probably good enough to test.
1
4UU
Legendary Creature - Dragon Spirit (M)
Flying, ward 3
When Kairi, the Swirling Sky dies, choose one:
- Return any number of target nonland permanents with total mana value 6 or less to their owners' hands.
- Mill six cards, then return up to two instant and/or sorcery cards from your graveyard to your hand.
6/6
Good stats, some protection, provides card advantage. Probably not as good as Consecrated Sphinx but worthy of discussion.
1
Unlike Zegana, the deck doesn't require you set up before casting your general, and unlike Edric, Ezuri is able to win the game quickly instead of trying to attack for 12 turns. While Edric's card advantage is generally superior, it's sometimes unable to do anything aside from drop a bunch of Flying Men onto the battlefield, and this deck's creature diversity gives it a better toolbox approach. The +1/+1 counters easily allow you to play a fair tempo/midrange game if you're unable to combo off, though this is not recommended since the deck is not built for longer, grindy games, and will scoop if it gets board-wiped twice.
Prime Speaker Vannifar is another good Simic commander that utilizes a toolbox approach. However, it skews too far in that direction; in testing, Vannifar had to mulligan far more often than Ezuri due to drawing combo pieces in the opening hand, as well as having more situational cards and CMC 5+ cards in the opener. Ezuri normally only mulligans if it doesn't have enough mana sources/accelerants.
If you like fast games with numerous lines of play available every turn, this is the deck for you. If you aren't a sequencing expert and don't enjoy creatures or combo wins, I wouldn't recommend this deck. Seriously, if you pick up this deck, you'll want to spend a few hours goldfishing before playing it against others. Many turns will involve you taking 6+ actions, and whether or not you're able to go off depends on being able to sequence perfectly.
An ideal opening hand consists of 2-3 land (with at least 1 source of each color), 1-2 accelerants (these need to cost 1-2 mana; midgame mana creatures do not count), 1 protection spell/counter, and 1-2 other creatures/tutors. Building experience counters is fairly easy; the creature base is built with a "creatures beget creatures" philosophy. If you are able to untap with Ezuri on the battlefield, it shouldn't be hard to go off that turn or the following turn.
The deck is able to recover from most board wipes fairly quickly; it's the Wildfire/Cataclysm effects that will wreck you. Don't run too many creatures out if you fear a board wipe and are unable to go off. You don't need more than five experience counters, ever.
I built this deck because I wanted to build a competitive deck that wasn't Stax. I've had tons of success with Stax and reanimator, but wanted to challenge myself to build with creatures and still win on turn ~4. I've been playing Magic since Masques block and EDH since 2011, so I trusted myself as a builder and dismissed most of the recommendations from EDHREC - most people's lists aren't as tuned as mine. In fact, I was unable to find a polished, competitive build for this commander at all. The resulting brewing culminated in a deck that wasn't too far off from where it is today.
The original build of the deck had a slightly higher curve, topping out with a 6-drop (Prime Speaker Zegana) and some 5-mana tutors for Sage of Hours (Primal Command, Bring to Light). All of those cards were too clunky and left Ezuri too exposed, so they were replaced by additional ramp sources and protection creatures. Llawan, Cephalid Empress was added because everyone plays blue cards.
Since late 2017, I'd say the build has been fairly optimized. I've toyed with different card choices for different environments, but the core of the deck remains the same.
1x Ezuri, Claw of Progress
Creatures
1x Allosaurus Shepherd
1x Arbor Elf
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Cold-Eyed Selkie
1x Collector Ouphe
1x Cultivator of Blades
1x Deep Forest Hermit
1x Deranged Hermit
1x Devoted Druid
1x Duskwatch Recruiter
1x Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fathom Mage
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Incubation Druid
1x Joraga Treespeaker
1x Kiora's Follower
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Manglehorn
1x Mausoleum Wanderer
1x Nest Invader
1x Oakhame Adversary
1x Plaxmanta
1x Priest of Titania
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Sage of Hours
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scute Swarm
1x Shrieking Drake
1x Siren Stormtamer
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Thieving Skydiver
1x Trinket Mage
1x Viridian Corrupter
1x Walking Ballista
1x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Botanical Sanctum
1x Breeding Pool
1x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Flooded Grove
1x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Hinterland Harbor
3x Island
1x Mana Confluence
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Polluted Delta
1x Prismatic Vista
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Strip Mine
1x Tropical Island
1x Turntimber Symbiosis
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Waterlogged Grove
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Yavimaya Hollow
Instants
1x Brainstorm
1x Chord of Calling
1x Counterspell
1x Fierce Guardianship
1x Force of Will
1x Lazotep Plating
1x Mana Drain
1x Mental Misstep
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Mystical Dispute
1x Scatter the Seeds
1x Spell Pierce
1x Swan Song
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Dense Foliage
1x Earthcraft
1x Mystic Remora
1x Squirrel Nest
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
Sorceries
1x Eldritch Evolution
1x Finale of Devastation
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Neoform
Artifacts
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Mox Diamond
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
Planeswalkers
1x Kiora, Master of the Depths
This deck is much faster than most and has a high degree of redundancy, so your draws will be more consistent than other decks. You are always trying to win on or before turn 5. This will happen often, but as with any variance-based game, sometimes it won't. If it doesn't, shift your game plan toward drawing cards. Once you have a couple counterspells available, you shouldn't be as worried if the game goes long - you can still win, though the deck isn't designed for there to be a late game.
If you don't have a way to tutor for Sage of Hours, focus on building experience counters and disrupting opponents. If you can find Sage of Hours and have four or more experience (with Sage being the fifth), focus on comboing. Ideally you'll have a counterspell of some sort to protect the Sage from instant-speed disruption. If you know an opponent will be able to disrupt Sage, use Cultivator of Blades or a card-draw creature like Fathom Mage to bait the removal.
Don't be too upset if opponents target your tutoring-related noncreature permanents. If you aren't able to go off (or generate overwhelming advantage from it) the following turn, it's likely not worth it to get into a counter war over a Birthing Pod. Save your counters to protect your resources, your commander, and your combo.
The library is the safest place for Sage of Hours. Don't grab it until you know you can win with it. When you're ready to combo, ideally you'll have at least one counterspell ready to protect Sage against countermagic or disruption. It's best to wait for at least one opponent, preferably a blue one, to tap out before trying to go off. You can't win a multi-player counter war; don't try. Hold off on comboing if you know multiple players have countermagic up; instead, force them to answer other cards until you've run them out of answers.
If the game does go longer, try to get Skullclamp and a token generator going. This should allow you to quickly dig through your library, build experience, and find a way to win.
Torpor Orb is this deck's worst nightmare, as are Wildfire effects. Counter these when they are cast; you will not be able to win if they resolve.
Should You Keep?
One of the toughest decisions involved with this deck is whether or not to keep an opening hand. Remember, an ideal opener contains 1-2 pieces of acceleration, 1-2 forms of protection/counters, ideally 3 mana sources, and some way to generate card advantage, massive experience, or tutor. I intentionally excluded hands that look like "nut draws" or zero-landers.
Hand A has one land, which only produces one color. It has a mana dork, but even on 2 mana, you're only able to drop a Duskwatch Recruiter. Mulligan.
Hand B has both colors of mana, but the green source you need effectively comes in tapped. This delays you by a whole turn, which often spells doom for this deck. Plus, you don't need both Nissa and Cultivator of Blades; they serve the same purpose, so you've effectively mulliganed already. Mulligan.
Hand C has mana sources, but it's not without its flaws. It also requires that you use your Worldly Tutor to find an accelerant if you hope to curve out properly. Defensible to keep, but I'd mulligan. The deck can do better.
Hand D is great. You get your dork and protection online in the first two turns, you have 5 experience built in (Deranged Hermit), and Glen Elendra Archmage can land the turn before you cast Ezuri if needed, so you can keep presumably mana open the following turn to protect Ezuri when you cast him. Keep.
Got the hang of it? Now four more.
Hand A is obviously stellar. The ideal sequence depends on the matchup; if you think your opponent(s) will have removal, play both Elves on turn 2. If not, you can cast Ezuri on turn 2, then follow him up with the Priest. Keep.
Hand B is missing an accelerant, and does nothing until turn 3. Mulligan.
Hand C has literally everything you want, but it's missing one land. If your Birds of Paradise can survive, you'll be able to ramp again. However, it's risky, and you don't need both Fathom Mage and Cold-Eyed Selkie, so you're already effectively down a card. Keeping is defensible, but I'd mulligan because the deck can do better.
Hand D is amazing and you shouldn't hesitate to keep it.
Sequencing Scenarios
Now for the real fun. Assume you are at zero experience counters and in your first main phase in each of these scenarios.
Goal: Control Glen Elendra Archmage with enough mana to activate it.
Tap Devoted Druid and the Forest to cast Nest Invader, creating an Eldrazi Spawn and getting you two experience counters. At the beginning of combat, put two +1/+1 counters onto Devoted Druid. One will cancel out the -1/-1 counter, and the other will be placed onto it. Postcombat, tap the Devoted Druid, then untap it and tap it, then sacrifice the Eldrazi Spawn. Cast the Glen Elendra Archmage using the Island, the two mana from Devoted Druid, and the one mana from the Eldrazi Spawn.
Goal: Draw four cards and have two forms of protection up for Ezuri.
Crack Misty Rainforest for a basic Island. Using the Tropical Island and 1 mana from the Ancient Tomb, cast Earthcraft. You now have colorless floating. Tap the basic Island, then untap it using Ezuri and Earthcraft. You now have 1U floating. Tap the Birds of Paradise and the Island to cast Fathom Mage. You now have 1 experience counter and zero mana floating. Tap Fathom Mage using Earthcraft to untap the basic Island to cast Siren Stormtamer, then use it to untap the basic Island. You now have 2 experience. Cast Sidisi's Faithful, untapping the basic Island with Earthcraft with the exploit trigger on the stack. You now have three experience. Sacrifice the Faithful to bounce the Stormtamer, then recast the Stormtamer. You now have four experience. Tap the Stormtamer with Earthcraft to untap the basic Island to keep mana up to activate its ability. At the beginning of combat, put four +1/+1 counters on Fathom Mage to draw four cards.
Against stax strategies, aim for an opening hand with multiple mana dorks to ensure you can power out your commander quickly. Having a counterspell is also crucial since they'll likely tutor for Fire Covenant or Toxic Deluge, as stax pieces alone are generally unable to keep up with the mass of creatures this deck spews out.
Against Teferi Stasis, the goal is to find and resolve Manglehorn. Counterspells are good here, but being able to disrupt two mana rocks will normally lead to victory. These decks keep pace with each other very well, so try to stay at mana parity to avoid falling behind.
Against reanimation strategies, being able to disrupt the creature is key. If you are unable to counter the reanimation spell, make sure you can tutor for Sidisi's Faithful or make a big enough Walking Ballista. If your meta is reanimation-heavy, add Scavenging Ooze to the deck in place of something slow like Beast Whisperer.
Against storm strategies (Jhoira 2, Yidris, etc.), disrupting the commander will often buy enough time to go off. Storm is heavily impacted by variance and will likely spend the first few turns hand-sculpting and putting out mana rocks, so if you can stick Llawan, Cephalid Empress to shut off a creature-based card advantage source, that will often slow them down enough.
Against combo-control decks (Breya, etc.), save your countermagic to protect Ezuri and mana dorks. These are not favorable matchups since they have both spot and mass removal. Creatures that provide incremental advantage, such as Trygon Predator and Cold-Eyed Selkie, are good here.
My meta doesn't have Hulk decks, so I haven't gotten any real testing in against those.
Accelerants
These creatures are included to help get Ezuri out on turn 2-3. In the later game, you should be pitching these to Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman/etc.
Birds of Paradise / Elvish Mystic / Llanowar Elves / Fyndhorn Elves / Joraga Treespeaker / Kiora's Follower / Devoted Druid / Priest of Titania / Sakura-Tribe Elder / Arbor Elf / Incubation Druid / Nest Invader (also useful when going off since it provides 2 experience counters).
Note that Duskwatch Recruiter can also accelerate, but don't play this over other ramp creatures in the first couple turns unless you have no other acceleration.
Misc.
Trinket Mage
Note that Trinket Mage can fetch you a 0-mana experience counter (Walking Ballista) and Skullclamp in addition to the usual mana artifacts. However, it will normally fetch Mana Crypt.
Protection
These creatures are included to keep Ezuri alive against spot removal. Ideally, you will have one of these on the battlefield before you cast Ezuri; however, don't let the absence of one of these prevent you from bringing him out. Tutor for one as soon as possible unless you're immediately able to go off or are otherwise able to draw removal away from Ezuri.
Sylvan Safekeeper (you will Chord of Calling for this creature often!) / Eladamri, Lord of Leaves / Mausoleum Wanderer / Siren Stormtamer / Plaxmanta / Wirewood Symbiote / Glen Elendra Archmage
Disruption
Your deck is trying to win in the first few turns. Most creature-based decks will not be able to disrupt or kill you quickly enough, so you should focus your disruption on noncreature permanents (and spells) to try to cut players off of colored mana/accelerants. The creature interaction in here is mainly to keep problem generals like Zur off the battlefield. You'll normally cast one of these the turn after you cast Ezuri.
Sidisi's Faithful / Trygon Predator / Viridian Corrupter / Reclamation Sage / Walking Ballista (who said Simic can't have one-sided board wipes?) / Llawan, Cephalid Empress / Manglehorn / Collector Ouphe
Advantage
Because drawing cards matters.
Fathom Mage / Duskwatch Recruiter (the best mana sink in the deck) / Cold-Eyed Selkie
Win Conditions, Tutoring, Combo Pieces
Sage of Hours / Cultivator of Blades / Yisan, the Wanderer Bard (get Sylvan Safekeeper or Sidisi's Faithful on 1 verse counter, then Sage of Hours on 2) / Fauna Shaman / Shrieking Drake (infinite experience counters with Earthcraft and a basic Island)
The creatures that produce tokens are great Eldritch Evolution choices because they fuel the convoke spells.
The five most important creatures are Sage of Hours, Fauna Shaman, Sylvan Safekeeper, Wirewood Symbiote, and Cultivator of Blades.
Wirewood Symbiote Subsection
With Reclamation Sage and Viridian Corrupter, you can kill an artifact every turn. Use the untap ability to untap a creature that produces multiple mana, such as Joraga Treespeaker or Priest of Titania.
Don't forget - every time you recast an Elf aside from Ezuri, you'll get an experience counter. Don't be afraid to bounce your mana dorks to untap other mana dorks and recast what you bounced - you'll build experience really quickly!
Noncreatures
Accelerants
Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault (use this with Kiora's Follower for extreme acceleration), Green Sun's Zenith (this is normally cast with X=0 for Dryad Arbor), Earthcraft (turns your protection creatures into mana sources)
Protection
Steely Resolve (set this to Warrior), Dense Foliage, Lazotep Plating
Experience
Combine any of these with Skullclamp for a hand refill.
Squirrel Nest (infinite Squirrels and experience counters with Earthcraft if this enchants a basic land), Scatter the Seeds, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Tutoring & Advantage
Worldly Tutor, Kiora, Master of the Depths, Survival of the Fittest, Eldritch Evolution, Sylvan Library, Finale of Devastation, Chord of Calling, Brainstorm, Neoform, Muddle the Mixture (this will often be a counterspell, but sometimes you'll use it to find Sage of Hours or Earthcraft to go off) / Mystic Remora
The three most important non-mana-rock noncreature permanents in the deck are Survival of the Fittest, Earthcraft, and Dense Foliage.
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar - slow
I want to test Crop Rotation but it's a $100 foil for a common, which is dumb. Also, Mystical Tutor, Nature's Claim, and Natural State are cards that look good for a competitive meta.
(4/17)
-Saproling Burst
-Cephalid Constable
+Stubborn Denial
+Nissa, Steward of Elements
-Nissa, Steward of Elements (too slow)
+Mausoleum Wanderer (good to dump +1/+1 counters on, provides protection)
-Animation Module (I rarely used the second ability, and the first ability was slow)
+Deranged Hermit (It's an Elf for Wirewood Symbiote, helps Gaea's Cradle and Skullclamp, and immediately lets you Chord of Calling for 2 aka Sage of Hours upon resolution of the trigger. It also immediately puts you to 5 experience counters.)
-Gyre Sage (too slow, did not immediately accelerate)
+Siren Stormtamer (it's a 1-drop that protects Ezuri)
-Rishkar, Peema Renegade - I want mana creatures on 1 or 2, not 3.
-Old Man of the Sea - The old man was good at baiting spot removal, but that's really it.
+Bloom Tender - finally got a foil. I expect tapping for GU will make this card a long-term inclusion.
+Elvish Spirit Guide - I like turn 2 Ezuri.
-Elvish Spirit Guide - I didn't need this to be explosive.
-Lumbering Falls - ETB tapped.
-Temple of Mystery - ETB tapped.
+Mox Diamond - My turn 0 mana should stick around.
+Opposition - Good with Squirrel Nest etc, locks opponents out
+Island - More moon effects have been showing up, and I need these for Earthcraft.
-Mystic Snake - Clunky, easy to read, never desirable in my opening hand
+Manglehorn - Artifact disruption and tempo advantage are good
-Whirler Rogue
+Beast Whisperer
-Coiling Oracle
-Nature's Lore
+Mental Misstep
+Incubation Druid
-Bloom Tender
-Nature's Lore
+Lazotep Plating
+Neoform
-Beast Whisperer - 4 mana and no guaranteed same-turn advantage
-Birthing Pod - normally I only need to activate once, and Collector Ouphe was added
-Trygon Predator - slow and unreliable
-Vedalken Aethermage - hard to tell if this or Yisan should go, but the ceiling on Yisan is higher
-Forest
-Island
+Mystic Remora
+Finale of Devastation - normally this will get Dryad Arbor for GG, but can also get Sage of Hours
+Collector Ouphe
+Deep Forest Hermit
+Waterlogged Grove
+Windswept Heath
-Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
+Fierce Guardianship
1
I'm also looking to add Boreal Druid and try Chrome Mox again just to be a bit more explosive.
2
1
Kiora is often cast before Ezuri; digging for a protection creature or a land so you have counter mana up when you cast Ezuri can be important.
2
3WW
Legendary Creature - Zombie God
Double strike
Whenever you cast a creature spell, create a 4/4 black Zombie Warrior creature token with vigilance.
When God-Eternal Oketra dies or is put into exile from the battlefield, you may put it into its owner's library third from the top.
3/6
Source: mythicspoiler
2
1