What's the deal with so many here running 3-4 cryptics and 18 blue sources? This is like asking to get stuck with cryptics in hand, and one of the main reasons decks like esper control don't run any land destruction land; they need to keep their blue sources high for cryptics.
Do anyone know of any hatebear style cards to bring i against combo like Ad Nauseam or Storm? I considered red eidolon, but he is red and not really good against Ad Nauseam so to narrow. The card need to have a low casting cost and preferably green.
It's probably pretty good, but Emperion being an artifact can be a problem since they are likely to keep their commands in as from their POV pushes and terminates are worse. But they only play 2 commands so if you sneak a madcap under Stubborn and they don't draw their command they are dead.
I consider jamming the a few copies of chameleon colossus into my board for the Grixis Shadow matchup. They have no removal capable of killing it, they don't play LotV and their countermagic's all stubborns. It also dodge Brutality and Inquisition. The problem is that BtL can be countered fairly easily, so might want multiple copies of the colossus if you're really worried about this matchup.
I feel you try to be way to reactive against DS. I have had the most success just trying to sneak a creature that generate me some value under their discard and stubborns. They will shred your hand regardless and the game quickly turn into a game where you more or less play from the top so you want to make sure you hit your land drops and have a higher density of higher impact cards. I've been jamming more and more Huntmasters and Coursers into my board and bring them all in against DS. I trim a scapeshift since they bring in surgicals, remands, anger and a cryptic for the creatures and RiP. I have been sideboarding in dispels to, but I'm unsure if that's the route i want to take. Glen Elendra is probably allright here to.
If anyone have any other tips for a high impact creature to bring in that generate value and can come in against several decks please let me know. Particularly if the creature cost 4 or less. Thragtusk is also great and match up well against most the threats out of DS, but it can't be searched out by BtL.
I notice many still play several Baloths in their boards and bring them in against many decks. Imo they match up very poorly against any DS threats, eldrazi, to low impact against Affinity and control etch so i find it hard to justify playing them. Not to mention how few Liliana of the Veil's around in the current meta.
I have swapped to more grindy cards that's also come in against Burn like Huntmaster and Courser and they seem so much stronger. Am i missing something obvious here?
Heya and congratulations on the finish! I wonder is there a reason why you roll with 2x heath and 1x foothills as your fetches over mistys? And why only 3?
First of all the only place where this deck is tier 1 is here on mtgsalvation. You rarely play against it in competitive leagues and it seems it's already out of favor in RL events (like the last SCG event). This doesn't mean the deck can't be strong and it's still new and would be awesome if we saw some innovations coming out of GP Vegas as the deck is a blast to play.
My problem was how easily it got interrupted by pretty much any kind of interaction from your opponent and how weak the deck was when not comboing off. The backup plan of beating down barely got there when your creatures are viziers, devoted druid, recruiters etch instead of voices and anafenzas.
Having said that i still think there is a great deck in there somewhere, I'm just not sure we've found it yet. I will try a similar deck like Kelvin Chew posted in his newest article to see how the blue splash and backup combo feels.
I have been jamming this deck online this week and believe the deck is a little under powered. You desperately try and assemble the combo, but there is so much disruption floating around and the rest of the deck often struggle to get the job done as the power level is a tad weak. At first I was all about the renegade rallier, but that card have been very underwhelming for me. Yes sometimes he can bring back the devoted druid, but most the time he is a 3/2 for 3 that bring a canopy or fetch back. The backup plan should be a decent value/beatdown plan, but unlike earlier versions of abzan company (and pod i guess) the creatures aren't really good at either unless you get a township online or chaining witnesses into companies.
I have thought about adding knight of the reliquary to support the beatdown plan, but after reading Kelwin Chews report about his Bant version reflector mage could be another great choice for this deck. It's great in today's modern and my buddy who's on Collected Humans say it's the best card in his deck. The article from Chew can be found here: http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/writers/kelvin-chew/a-guide-to-vizier-knightfall
At first glance the deck looks interesting, although I'm worried about only 16 green sources.
I know many of you have good results with both abzan and GW so this is only my opinion, but i have felt something lacking and I'm not completely sure what it is. I will try the bant version to see how that feel.
Heya and congratulations on your success with such a cool and original deck!
i wonder if you could talk about some of your sideboard choices and the plan behind it? The sideboard seems very "random" to me, but im sure there's a plan behind it and I'd love to hear it. Also what's your worst matchups with this deck? And why?
Welding Jar is a superb card against Burn as it protects your best cards and get under Eidolon. If you're slow and fall behind it will be very hard to win, so try and lower your curve to get ahead early and dump ur spells before Eidolon get out. If you manage that you will win most the time.
I notice no one seem to play the card oath of nissa in their lists. Any reason why? It's close to Ponder in a deck with so many creatures and it let you shave a land. It's also pretty good with renegade rallier since if you draw 2 and legend rule one you can always get it back with the rallier. It's also neat to be able to get it back that way through a grafdigger's cage.
I looked through the deck in your signature and i have some question about some cards if you don't mind me asking
1. Can you really afford a [card]sacred foudry[/card in the deck? I would be very hesitant of playing non-combo lands that don't produce green.
2. What's the reasoning for playing the stingscourger in the side? Feels like a slightly weak card or am i missing something?
3. I can see how fiery justice could be good, but is it really better than say add a black fetch and orzhov pontiff to the side instead? Being a creature seems so much better.
4. This is more general. But from my experience decks like these have a rough time against dedicated control decks that look to 2 for 1 and wrath etch. I would try to add multiple voice of resurgence and maybe even a few tireless trackerto my sideboard and swap out some combo pieces to try shore up those matchups. What do you think about this?
5. I also feel that the big mana decks can be rough. Have you considered magus of the moon for those decks?
Sorry for all the messages, but as you probably can tell I'm pretty interested in knowing more about this archetype!
Thanks for the quick response. I definitely see the allure in jamming 4 wolf run, as it's sort of work as a "free" win condition at the price of a slightly worse mana base and obviously no townships. On the other hand red will enable more sideboard slots.
I like the idea of having more combo potential in the deck, especially since i won't run any path or meaningful interaction so i have to try and end the game quickly so maybe the "free" red splash is worth it.
Why do you play it over the township version if you suspect the straight GW with township versions just might be better?
I have been on various DS decks for quite some time and want to pick up another deck. I have always loved collected company and decided i wanted to play with it. I'm naturally drawn to the GW version that include 4 ralliers, townships and 4 recruiters as the backup value plan appeal much to me.
I realize i want fairly many fetches if i'm on the rallier plan, so i'm kinda interested in hearing more about the various splashes, and in particular the red splash, if anyone have any input? particularly the playset of kessig wolf run seems kinda neat, but isn't it hard to give up on townships and recruiters? Recruiter to me seems like an auto inclusion in a deck with 12 mana dorks as a mana sink even when your not comboing? Why not rely on recruiter and ballista as a finisher? Even if you combo with kessig you would need to connect and have red mana available (this might be trivial but I'd still like to discuss it).
I have played modern forever and i have lost to random mana dorks + township so often over my magic playing career it seems hard to pass on it?
I notice Pokken are banging hard on the wolf run plan over abzan or GW. You (or any other as i value any feedback) care to try and convince me ?
When it comes to abzan i already feel we play many cards that's fairly weak on their own in vizier especially. I really don't love the idea of jamming even more "weak" cards like Seer and Finks, but for any abzan pilot out there I'd be very interested in hearing why you prefer Abzan over the other versions.
I'm also curious if anyone have played with knight of the reliquary? He seem good for triggering revolt, search up kessig wolf run or utility lands and is just a huge body on it's own.
Many brave souls on UW control it seems
Anyone have any info on the card?
If anyone have any other tips for a high impact creature to bring in that generate value and can come in against several decks please let me know. Particularly if the creature cost 4 or less. Thragtusk is also great and match up well against most the threats out of DS, but it can't be searched out by BtL.
I have swapped to more grindy cards that's also come in against Burn like Huntmaster and Courser and they seem so much stronger. Am i missing something obvious here?
My problem was how easily it got interrupted by pretty much any kind of interaction from your opponent and how weak the deck was when not comboing off. The backup plan of beating down barely got there when your creatures are viziers, devoted druid, recruiters etch instead of voices and anafenzas.
Having said that i still think there is a great deck in there somewhere, I'm just not sure we've found it yet. I will try a similar deck like Kelvin Chew posted in his newest article to see how the blue splash and backup combo feels.
I have thought about adding knight of the reliquary to support the beatdown plan, but after reading Kelwin Chews report about his Bant version reflector mage could be another great choice for this deck. It's great in today's modern and my buddy who's on Collected Humans say it's the best card in his deck. The article from Chew can be found here: http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/writers/kelvin-chew/a-guide-to-vizier-knightfall
At first glance the deck looks interesting, although I'm worried about only 16 green sources.
I know many of you have good results with both abzan and GW so this is only my opinion, but i have felt something lacking and I'm not completely sure what it is. I will try the bant version to see how that feel.
GL in Vegas to those of you there
i wonder if you could talk about some of your sideboard choices and the plan behind it? The sideboard seems very "random" to me, but im sure there's a plan behind it and I'd love to hear it. Also what's your worst matchups with this deck? And why?
Thanks!
1. Can you really afford a [card]sacred foudry[/card in the deck? I would be very hesitant of playing non-combo lands that don't produce green.
2. What's the reasoning for playing the stingscourger in the side? Feels like a slightly weak card or am i missing something?
3. I can see how fiery justice could be good, but is it really better than say add a black fetch and orzhov pontiff to the side instead? Being a creature seems so much better.
4. This is more general. But from my experience decks like these have a rough time against dedicated control decks that look to 2 for 1 and wrath etch. I would try to add multiple voice of resurgence and maybe even a few tireless trackerto my sideboard and swap out some combo pieces to try shore up those matchups. What do you think about this?
5. I also feel that the big mana decks can be rough. Have you considered magus of the moon for those decks?
Sorry for all the messages, but as you probably can tell I'm pretty interested in knowing more about this archetype!
I like the idea of having more combo potential in the deck, especially since i won't run any path or meaningful interaction so i have to try and end the game quickly so maybe the "free" red splash is worth it.
Why do you play it over the township version if you suspect the straight GW with township versions just might be better?
I have been on various DS decks for quite some time and want to pick up another deck. I have always loved collected company and decided i wanted to play with it. I'm naturally drawn to the GW version that include 4 ralliers, townships and 4 recruiters as the backup value plan appeal much to me.
I realize i want fairly many fetches if i'm on the rallier plan, so i'm kinda interested in hearing more about the various splashes, and in particular the red splash, if anyone have any input? particularly the playset of kessig wolf run seems kinda neat, but isn't it hard to give up on townships and recruiters? Recruiter to me seems like an auto inclusion in a deck with 12 mana dorks as a mana sink even when your not comboing? Why not rely on recruiter and ballista as a finisher? Even if you combo with kessig you would need to connect and have red mana available (this might be trivial but I'd still like to discuss it).
I have played modern forever and i have lost to random mana dorks + township so often over my magic playing career it seems hard to pass on it?
I notice Pokken are banging hard on the wolf run plan over abzan or GW. You (or any other as i value any feedback) care to try and convince me
When it comes to abzan i already feel we play many cards that's fairly weak on their own in vizier especially. I really don't love the idea of jamming even more "weak" cards like Seer and Finks, but for any abzan pilot out there I'd be very interested in hearing why you prefer Abzan over the other versions.
I'm also curious if anyone have played with knight of the reliquary? He seem good for triggering revolt, search up kessig wolf run or utility lands and is just a huge body on it's own.
Thanks for reading!