Talking about the actual abilities, I also don't like this "clash" as it seems too situational and unstable to get with. And giving your opponent a chance to put an unneeded land on the bottom of his library and topdeck something bad is not that great.
Goatnapper 2R
Creature - Goblin Rogue
When Goatnapper comes into play, untap target Goat and gain control of it until end of turn. It gains haste until end of turn.
2/2
can 'nap:
Changeling Titan 4G
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
Champion a creature (When this comes into play, sacrifice it unless you remove another creature you control from the game. When this leaves play, that card returns to play.)
7/7
Woodland Changeling 1G
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
Changelings can't resist the temptation of a new form, even if it isn't in their best interest.
Illus. Franz Vohwinkel 2/2
Changeling Hero 4W
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
Champion a Creature (When this comes into play, sacrifice it unless you remove another creature you control from the game. When this leaves play, that card returns to play.)
Lifelink
4/4
Amebold Changeling 1U
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
T : Target creature gains all creature types until end of turn.
T : Target creature loses all creature types until end of turn.
1/1
Cairn Wanderer 4B
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling
As long as a creature card in your graveyard has flying, Cairn Wanderer has flying. The same is true for fear, first strike, double strike, deathtouch, haste, landwalk, lifelink, protection, reach, trample, shroud, and vigilance.
#105/301 4/4
Ghostly Changeling 2B
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
1B : Ghostly Changeling gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
2/2
Skeletal Changeling 1B
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
B : Regenerate Skeletal Changeling.
1/1
I'm hoping for some non-creature changeling permanents to round out the count.
Basically this is a glorious anthem + serra's blessing rolled into one, which is maybe useful in aggro mirror. The other two abilities might as well not even exist.
Scenario:
It's a mirror match. You and your opponent are deadlocked. Ajani's -1, pump ability isn't enough to break through. Rather than attack, you use the +1, lifegain ability because otherwise Ajani would be wasted for a turn. Three turns later, use Ajani's -6 ability and you break the lock with a 14/14 creature.
So yeah, I agree with you, but there will be times when Ajani's other abilities will wreck an opponent.
I never once called it a broken idea, what I said it devalues the other tribes if the big guys have wall-a-like creature which stop their early game advantage. What I'm trying to say and what you have so clearly missed extarbgas is that the area of early defence is covered by other tribes and by giving this to treefolk then you could equally state "Kithkin need a 5/6 creature for 5 mana with a decent effect on other Kithkin to make them playable in the mid game".
I honestly think that if we see a low mana blocker for treefolkthan it will take the form of an enchant land (representing Rising of said land) along the lines of:
Rising 1G
Aura
Enchant forest
Enchanted forest becomes a 1/3 treefolk with defender.
Now that is VERY rough but is what I would prefer to see over the mid to late game tribes being allowed to drop walls super fast and with little risk to them.
Try this:
Rising G
Aura
Enchant forest
When ~ comes into play, untap target forest.
Enchanted forest becomes a 1/3 treefolk.
So please use your lovely scroll button or don't post at all.
Actually we need to know if the restriction is on the planeswalker or on the ability.
If the rules is: PW can only play one of their abilities each turn and only once, you can use them infinite times with Kraj.
If the rule is attached on each ability, which would be stupid and to difficult, you don't have a combo.
I think you've got a point there. Planeswalkers can use planeswalker abilities. They aren't creature abilities. So unless Kraj became a planeswalker, no luck.
You need to put counters on or remove them from a planeswalker in order to use the ability. Adding or removing loyalty from any other permanent type doesn't fulfil the cost's conditions.
PLANESWALKER ABILITIES
The cost to play a planeswalker's ability is represented by an arrow with a number inside. Up-arrows contain positive numbers, such as "+3"; this means "Put three loyalty counters on this planeswalker." Down-arrows contain negative numbers, such as "-1"; this means "Remove one loyalty counter from this planeswalker." You can't play a planeswalker's ability with a negative loyalty cost unless the planeswalker has at least that many loyalty counters on it.
But if I play green i wouldnt want to spend 2 mana for "nothing" in turn 3 or 4... And the enemy creatures can choose to attack yourself, so its not even a 0-4 wall. Also, if you use the beast token ability the following turn, Garruk gets into incinerate range again...
So with that plan, against red decks it basically untaps lands and gives random Overruns... no that Overrun affects the red player's game at all tho.
With this, i mean that against a red aggro deck i wouldnt use the first ability, but the second one, that even if gets the PW easily killed, it actually gives CA (a 3-3 for 4, almost as good as CoTH) and a body to block with.
Turn 1: cast a 0/1 birds of paradise Turn 2: cast a call of the herd for a 3/3 elephant, Turn 3: cast Garruk, untap 2 lands, might of old krosa the elephant, attack for 7, opponent at 13, cast llanowar elves. Turn 4: Garruk uses overrun ability, attack for 13 (4/4 elves + 6/6 elephant + 3/4 birds = 13 damage). You win.
There's a bunch of ways to slice it. You could have cast a 2/2 instead of the might of old krosa and the llanowar elves and still won. I'm sure there are more elegant turn 4 goldfishes with garruk, too.
I got to thinking about planeswalker/spell interactions and planeswalker/creature interactions and I was wondering: "What colors will you play to fend off your opponent's planeswalkers? Why"
All this new Planeswalker info aside, the PWs are still pretty nice and original, despite their restrictions. Limited bombs for sure and some are bound to rear their heads in competitive decks too. Too bad Teferi, as a mortal, feels stronger then PWs. Come to think of it, so do some other legends.
I think that's a casting cost issue. All power in the game is governed by cost, so an uberpowerful god-like planeswalker would cost too much to be playable.
PW are just..easier-to-kill-enchantments!! I don't really think they will see a lot of play in constructed unless WotC is going to print some nice stuff that interacts with PW and makes them worth playing.
So are creatures... oh wait, and lands are harder-to kill enchantments with a play-only-one-per-turn drawback. And artifacts are only easier to cast enchantments.... and instants are enchantments you can cast anytime, but they go to your graveyard as part of their cost.
The differentiation between cards in magic isn't that great... that's why they share so many abilities and why the color wheel and cost/power ratios became so important.
Given the slight differentiation between cards as-is, I think planeswalkers are actually pretty left-field. They have a whole pile of rules where Artifacts and Lands, for example, only have a few.
Most of the rules are pretty intuitive and exhibit good design. Except for the damage redirection rule. Personally I think they're going to regret this and acknowledge it as a mistake down the road.
All existing burn that hits players is costed based on the fact that players start the game with 20 life. You're telling me that all those spells are fairly costed to also effect Planeswalkers, which start with a fraction of that amount in loyalty? Planeswalkers are an entirely new card type, and there's only going to be five of them. What's wrong with printing new burn spells specifically designed to hit them and/or players and/or creatures?
It seems to me that is getting an unfair advantage here in dealing with Planeswalkers. What's wrong with letting do what it's always done, burn away the blockers and clear the way for attackers?
Well... all colors get attackers, so a deck with evasion or fatties or what-have-you can send its assassins. And it's actually balanced in an odd way to see planeswalkers get targeted by burn. Versus a burn deck, a good enough planeswalker becomes sort-of a lifegain/cantrip/2-for-1 kind of deal, depending on the ability you use.
I wouldn't be surprised if the white planeswalker had "+1: Creatures can't attack you until the beginning of your next turn," forcing opponents to attack the planeswalker instead of their opponent. And the red one? "-2: Untap target creature and gain control of it until end of turn. It gains haste."
Planewalkers are just glorified enchantments. They can be destroyed just as easy as enchantments, only through new complicated rules.
Frankly, I don't think planewalkers add anything to the game. They could have been enchantments, but the amount of text to make them functionally identical (save for the "you can attack planewalkers" part that is actually the real inovation here) would make them unprintable.
Planewalkers = meh.
Mike
I think "Meh" is the best possible response for something like this. Planeswalkers are fair and generally fair is boring. What they boil down to is something middle-of-the-road. Not great, but not terrible. Consider the alternatives:
USELESS
Planeswalkers have been made severely underpowered with ridiculous and complex rules that result in them doing little or nothing in a game. Players are furious and some quit playing. New players are baffled and some don't last until the next block. Wizards loses money and erodes the fan base.
OVERPOWERED
Planeswalker have been made simple, undercosted powerhouses that you either play with or lose. Players who don't get playsets of them begin losing games. Play groups ban them. Eventually, they get banned by the DCI, but people still play them casually. Everyone gets frustrated with how easy it is to win with them and how easy it is to lose without them. Wizards loses money and erodes the fan base.
It's a good thing that so may people are ambivalent towards the idea of planeswalkers. It means that they are easily understood, fair and balanced. Like a minivan. Pizzazz is overrated when adding new elements to a popular and well-designed game. I'm sure we'll see cool planeswalkers that bend the rules and make us go "wow"... just as soon as everyone is used to having these guys floating around the pond for a while.
I'm surprised anyone thought that the abilities would be playable as instants after seeing the discard one on Lilliana. It would be HIGHLY unlikely to have a single card that can repeatedly make an opponent discard during their draw phase every turn.
Obviously Liliana came first to give us the clearest clues.
Garruk untaps lands to get a pile of non-flying mana accelerants into play then you cast hurricane and have Garruk take all the damage while your opponent dies!
ghost post
I read that as wizards giving us a strong clue that we'll all need to play creature-heavy decks to survive this block...
He would be way better if he was a 6/6 that came into play with +1/+1 counters equal to the total power of other creatures in play...
Goatnapper 2R
Creature - Goblin Rogue
When Goatnapper comes into play, untap target Goat and gain control of it until end of turn. It gains haste until end of turn.
2/2
can 'nap:
Changeling Titan 4G
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
Champion a creature (When this comes into play, sacrifice it unless you remove another creature you control from the game. When this leaves play, that card returns to play.)
7/7
Woodland Changeling 1G
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
Changelings can't resist the temptation of a new form, even if it isn't in their best interest.
Illus. Franz Vohwinkel 2/2
Changeling Hero 4W
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
Champion a Creature (When this comes into play, sacrifice it unless you remove another creature you control from the game. When this leaves play, that card returns to play.)
Lifelink
4/4
Amebold Changeling 1U
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
T : Target creature gains all creature types until end of turn.
T : Target creature loses all creature types until end of turn.
1/1
Cairn Wanderer 4B
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling
As long as a creature card in your graveyard has flying, Cairn Wanderer has flying. The same is true for fear, first strike, double strike, deathtouch, haste, landwalk, lifelink, protection, reach, trample, shroud, and vigilance.
#105/301 4/4
Ghostly Changeling 2B
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
1B : Ghostly Changeling gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
2/2
Skeletal Changeling 1B
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type even if this card isn't in play.)
B : Regenerate Skeletal Changeling.
1/1
I'm hoping for some non-creature changeling permanents to round out the count.
Scenario:
It's a mirror match. You and your opponent are deadlocked. Ajani's -1, pump ability isn't enough to break through. Rather than attack, you use the +1, lifegain ability because otherwise Ajani would be wasted for a turn. Three turns later, use Ajani's -6 ability and you break the lock with a 14/14 creature.
So yeah, I agree with you, but there will be times when Ajani's other abilities will wreck an opponent.
Try this:
Rising G
Aura
Enchant forest
When ~ comes into play, untap target forest.
Enchanted forest becomes a 1/3 treefolk.
Read the first ability.
I think you've got a point there. Planeswalkers can use planeswalker abilities. They aren't creature abilities. So unless Kraj became a planeswalker, no luck.
You need to put counters on or remove them from a planeswalker in order to use the ability. Adding or removing loyalty from any other permanent type doesn't fulfil the cost's conditions.
PLANESWALKER ABILITIES
The cost to play a planeswalker's ability is represented by an arrow with a number inside. Up-arrows contain positive numbers, such as "+3"; this means "Put three loyalty counters on this planeswalker." Down-arrows contain negative numbers, such as "-1"; this means "Remove one loyalty counter from this planeswalker." You can't play a planeswalker's ability with a negative loyalty cost unless the planeswalker has at least that many loyalty counters on it.
Turn 1: cast a 0/1 birds of paradise
Turn 2: cast a call of the herd for a 3/3 elephant,
Turn 3: cast Garruk, untap 2 lands, might of old krosa the elephant, attack for 7, opponent at 13, cast llanowar elves.
Turn 4: Garruk uses overrun ability, attack for 13 (4/4 elves + 6/6 elephant + 3/4 birds = 13 damage). You win.
There's a bunch of ways to slice it. You could have cast a 2/2 instead of the might of old krosa and the llanowar elves and still won. I'm sure there are more elegant turn 4 goldfishes with garruk, too.
...4 turn goldfish an argument for Garruk?
I think that's a casting cost issue. All power in the game is governed by cost, so an uberpowerful god-like planeswalker would cost too much to be playable.
So are creatures... oh wait, and lands are harder-to kill enchantments with a play-only-one-per-turn drawback. And artifacts are only easier to cast enchantments.... and instants are enchantments you can cast anytime, but they go to your graveyard as part of their cost.
The differentiation between cards in magic isn't that great... that's why they share so many abilities and why the color wheel and cost/power ratios became so important.
Given the slight differentiation between cards as-is, I think planeswalkers are actually pretty left-field. They have a whole pile of rules where Artifacts and Lands, for example, only have a few.
Well... all colors get attackers, so a deck with evasion or fatties or what-have-you can send its assassins. And it's actually balanced in an odd way to see planeswalkers get targeted by burn. Versus a burn deck, a good enough planeswalker becomes sort-of a lifegain/cantrip/2-for-1 kind of deal, depending on the ability you use.
I wouldn't be surprised if the white planeswalker had "+1: Creatures can't attack you until the beginning of your next turn," forcing opponents to attack the planeswalker instead of their opponent. And the red one? "-2: Untap target creature and gain control of it until end of turn. It gains haste."
I think "Meh" is the best possible response for something like this. Planeswalkers are fair and generally fair is boring. What they boil down to is something middle-of-the-road. Not great, but not terrible. Consider the alternatives:
USELESS
Planeswalkers have been made severely underpowered with ridiculous and complex rules that result in them doing little or nothing in a game. Players are furious and some quit playing. New players are baffled and some don't last until the next block. Wizards loses money and erodes the fan base.
OVERPOWERED
Planeswalker have been made simple, undercosted powerhouses that you either play with or lose. Players who don't get playsets of them begin losing games. Play groups ban them. Eventually, they get banned by the DCI, but people still play them casually. Everyone gets frustrated with how easy it is to win with them and how easy it is to lose without them. Wizards loses money and erodes the fan base.
It's a good thing that so may people are ambivalent towards the idea of planeswalkers. It means that they are easily understood, fair and balanced. Like a minivan. Pizzazz is overrated when adding new elements to a popular and well-designed game. I'm sure we'll see cool planeswalkers that bend the rules and make us go "wow"... just as soon as everyone is used to having these guys floating around the pond for a while.
Obviously Liliana came first to give us the clearest clues.
After reviewing the damage rules, I figured one thing out.
Garruk Wildspeaker + Hurricane + Mana acceleration
Garruk untaps lands to get a pile of non-flying mana accelerants into play then you cast hurricane and have Garruk take all the damage while your opponent dies!